Oh, just read Keith's whole email (it was LONG), and there is some great advice on flatting. So I am including that in my work/study.
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Oh, just read Keith's whole email (it was LONG), and there is some great advice on flatting. So I am including that in my work/study.
I think many would disagree with me. But damn, why make shit harder on yourself. If you weren't staked, I wouldn't say what I am about to. But, with a stake your goal is to win money.
Who cares if you understand merging and balance at 4nl? Play a style that will yield profits. Learn when you have to. Make poker accretive.
Get a base of 13/11 or whatever the current style is. Then add one concept at time and only 1. Master it. Then move on. If you are .5ptbb/100 winner at 25, with a very unimaginative game, if you add just one simple concept you can increase your winrate, while still earning monies.
Also, it looks like you don't even like poker and get bored easily. You like the theory of poker, but the practice is boring, and who doesn't love some grade A mental masturbation?
I hate spoon as a person with every fiber of my being, but his poker advice is still solid. Can't believe people disregard it nowadays. I rarely (never) go into the BC anymore, so I can't honestly say I've seen the bashing taking place, although it wouldn't surprise me.
FTR isn't what it used to be... If the games come back online in the US for major sites, I can see it picking back up, MAYBE. But until that happens... bleh.
I disagree with Luck, play the game you want to play it. If you're winning, that's all that matters. No need to play the 'standard' way. People change the mold of the game by playing non-standard. TAG used to be abnormal back in the day!
It's easy to disregard Spoons teaching because his lessons were hard. We've been given an out in the BC and the weaker of us have used that out. It was hard to post a hand when he was around because we always had to devise a range for villain (gasp, like how could that ever help our game). IDK, I'm an idiot and lazy.
I know you want to help the BC Robb. I've read many of your posts and as you know have linked the BC to them a few times because I think they have merit. Maybe a way to help get the BC out of it's current funk is to take a stand and help posters understand why ranges are needed when they post. It won't be easy and you'll get some flack about it but it might be worth it in the long run.
Shit went downhill after BF. Anyways, dont wanna be out of line but yeah I think paying off that stake should take priority.
There is a time for being good at LAGG and I think it comes at around 25NL/50NL+. You don't have to be a "TAGG ROBOT" at the micros, you still have a brain and can use it. BUT tight works BECAUSE of how loose everybody else is. The fact is you CANT MAKE THEM FOLD, so you gotta have the goods more often than not. You can still grind it up tight and work on LAGGY shit on the side. I dunno 4NL just doesnt seem the place to try to be well rounded player. Do what works UNTIL it doesnt, then work on fixing it.
Mad respect tho, I probly read everything you posted back in the day. GL whichever way you decide to go.Quote:
I suspect everyone but me foresaw the problem: now I'm on loose, action-filled tables which are absolutely PERFECT for a TAGG approach, and I'm not playing TAGG-std poker. I'm ldo if you want to play laggy, table select to find nits, TAGG wannabes and weak-tighties. If you're table selecting laggy, why not open a small strong range of hands and camp on the nuts? Only open up when (if?) you stop getting action.
who is bad mouthing spoon? I think people just started to 1st with put him on a range, when it was completely fucking dumb. Spoon had a method he knew what he was talking bout but the folks that sucked his dick to much ruined the point of a beginner posting, if putting villain on a range was easy then we'd already know the answers to our questions well before we had to ask em. the BC at the min is a body without a head, almost everyone who posts regular is a fish, with the exception of Daven prolly, so when you post a difficult question (one with a fuck tonne of variables) us fish dont know how to respond, telling you to fold J9o to an UTG open is easy; telling you a good calling range depends solely on the range you give your opponent and how he plays that range, which is obviously much fucking harder. I don't know why people are so obsessed with playing in a style, play to exploit the villains at yr table; if you don't know how; move.
You're right - I need to consider this more. Maybe I could get to the same goal via a different learning route.Quote:
Originally Posted by !Luck
I think I disagree, but again, I'm considering. I'm glad you posted. We only learn things by hearing different perspectives, and considering them.Quote:
Originally Posted by !Luck
I really think I actually like playing poker, though I certainly get distracted easily, and bored easily, too. That's part of my personality you have nailed perfectly. In fact, that I'm still interested in playing poker 5 years after first starting is about the longest I've kept up with any hobby or interest in my life apart from running.
By the way, !Luck, don't you live near Atlanta? Or did once upon a time?
^^^^^Quote:
Originally Posted by kickass
Whatever way I go, I'm going to spend a ton of time learning and understanding, not just blindly following advice. By the way, I'm willing to follow advice, just not without understanding, too.Quote:
Originally Posted by WeaselT
I think there might be an obvious compromise. My stakers want me learning, as all the work will pay off soon enough. Maybe play 4 of 5 sessions TAGG standard, doing the things that work well for me: opening tables, playing super-short-handed, finding fish and nut-camping. Then, 1 of 5 sessions, find tables of weak-tighties and open up a good bit, not crazy loose like I have been, but say 26/20 or 28/24. Find a few spots to flat call and work on those ranges, but nothing crazy.
That way I would be pushing the boundaries and trying to play marginal hands in marginal positions, but only a small percentage of the time. I would learn a lot, and earn a lot, too (hopefully).
Good thoughts, everyone, I will take it on board and report back with a plan. I think the plan tonight is to watch our girls' softball team try to make the Division 2 NCAA World Series for the fourth year in a row. Game is at 5 PM EST. Here's the link to the live online video for anyone interested:
Saints Broadcast Network, Ustream.TV: Welcome to the official home of the Saints Broadcast Network on Ustream..
Series is best 2 of 3, with Flagler winning last night, 8-2, and us winning earlier this afternoon, 3-0. Game 3 for the right to be in the Elite 8 for the fourth straight year, especially impressive as this is a rebuilding year for us with only 3 seniors in the squad. First baseman and 5-hole hitter Katherine Martin and substitute and #1 pinch runner Katie Garrett were students of mine, and got me interested in going to lots of games and supporting the team.
After I get back, it's baths and bed for the kiddos, then a couple of hours of poker. I think I will start it off with a half hour or so work on ranges, then a more subdued approach to my TAGG-bot. I like the idea of playing at tables with an ass ton of lagg-tards, but I need to nit it up if I'm going to do it.
It's not badmouthing, it's a respect thing. Certain posters I know who deserve more respect aren't getting it. And I would still like to know what happened to Spoon, so I mentioned him. Did he leave voluntarily? Or did he get canned?Quote:
Originally Posted by kickass
I can imagine either scenario, just wondering. Could not disagree with anyone who hated him, as he was the ultimate douchebag, but he was an integral part of learning in the BC for several years, before he was a mod and then after his "I wanna be a mod" campaign actually worked out (which shocked the crap out of me - never thought it would actually happen).
I believe he went off to do what he does, teach math. No moar pokerz.
Cant remember if he wuit before BF, or shortly after. I dont play much anymore, but when I do get the bug, I read through his strat posts almosr exclusively.
He definitely deserves respect for that much.since he pretty much.single-handedly turned me into a winning player.
Good l
Nope, midwest is my home.
OK, decent-ish session last night, up a BI, ran 2 BI's behind EV for over an hour after AK < AJ (all-in pre) went xxxxJ for 125 BB's. I can't believe I was so dumb, as the table selection is perfect for nut-camping and the VERY occasional exploitation. Wow, they're chucking chips around the table like its confetti on New Year's Eve, and all I have to do is wait for my Aces to get cracked.
Also working on my 3k-th post. I'm going to do a Mike Caro, like the probability tables in the back of Super-System (first one), just calculating a bunch of funky probabilities I enjoy playing around with and asking for a "stump me" series of questions. Get your weird probability questions ready. I'll do better with gambling and gaming questions, but I'll take a stab at anything you come up with.
Spoiler:
I'm going to put all the maths inside spoilers to avoid scaring the noobs, if I can figure out the tags to do it right!
Aha! Looks like I got it figured out.
Just played this vs WeaselT (sorry!)
Merge - $0.04 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 3 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4
BB: $2.40
Hero (BTN): $3.61
SB: $4.02
SB posts SB $0.02, BB posts BB $0.04
Pre Flop: (pot: $0.06) Hero has A:club: 3:diamond:
Hero raises to $0.08, SB calls $0.06, fold
Flop: ($0.20, 2 players) 3:heart: A:heart: 7:diamond:
SB checks, Hero bets $0.13, SB raises to $0.35, Hero raises to $3.53 and is all-in, SB calls $3.18
Turn: ($7.26, 2 players) K:spade:
River: ($7.26, 2 players) 4:club:
Spoiler:Hero shows A:club: 3:diamond: (Two Pair, Aces and Threes) (Pre 54%, Flop 58%, Turn 73%)
SB shows 4:heart: 6:heart: (One Pair, Fours) (Pre 46%, Flop 42%, Turn 27%)
Hero wins $6.90
OK, finally got the HUD setup so that it displays stats only from the ssh'd tables I've played against opponents. I have separate filters for HU, 3-way and 4-way, then normal HUD for 5+ opponents. It's perfect for starting tables, as I can see how folks adjust - one thing they do is tighten up way too quickly as the table goes 3-way.
Not perfect for full table play, especially when you play 4-handed for a couple rounds as players leave and the table refills. Lose a bunch of info.
@WeaselT - what time zone are you in? Maybe we could voice chat while playing a couple of tables, do a sweat? We obv can't talk about hands that we're in until they're over, or its collusion. And we can't see each other's screens for the same reason. But we could just talk through hands after they get played, see what the other person thinks about how we played a particular hand.
Just for starters, I have you at 90% plus "folds blinds to LP steal," so that means I've opened up a ton against you when I'm OTB. Two 3-bets (light, if need be) within about 4 rounds will shut me down big time, force me to tighten up. If I 4bet, it's a hand, maybe a bit wider than AK+, KK+, but not much. Now, that's a small sample, but still it's the read I'm reacting to and why I'm so agro when you're on my left. You can also flat big hands and let me value town myself as I'm firing a bunch of cbets after you call preflop and check it to me on the flop.
I have you running 13/11 over 115 hands of 5-6 player hands. A bit nitty, though you play nice and agro postflop, which is good. If it's working, great. As you get more comfortable, you can open up a bit. My first (profitable) stint at the micros, I ran ~18/16 overall, extremely tight UTG/MP, opening a good bit on the BTN and somewhat in the CO. Do what works.
Sorry I stacked you. I do play my best against friends, though I stayed at the table longer than I would have since I had stacked you and didn't want to hit and run. Look for spots to stack me back. You should use everything you know about my game that I've said in this blog against me. There's tons of meta-game now when we face off, and you should use it to your advantage. Defo sit on my left if you find me at a table, and look for spots to use my aggression against me. You can check/call when you hit a hand with a villain like me behind you, someone who is extremely likely to cbet air, especially when acting last and the action is HU on the flop.
My tactics HU and 3-way, as you saw, focus on agro small ball and position, in tons of pots, betting and raising - and folding. I don't play for stacks all that much, usually folding a couple of medium-sized hands while winning a dozen smaller hands. I want other folks to get tired of my agro play and start shoving weak and medium hands on me, trying to get me to fold all my "junk," so I can pick up a hand and look them up or jam. If you play me super-short, look for something to stack me with. If you don't have a big hand, don't play for stacks, and make sure you're the one shoveling with the 9-out draw, not calling.
And let me know if you wanna try some kind of sweat session. PM me and we can exchange some notes on villains and so forth.
Good luck at the tables!!
should the weasel hand have been a weasel fold pre.. In essence he's playing pre for a flush/straight draw and from your comments .....if the board comes out connected in that way it's unlikely that you 'd pay him off. It just happened that you connected well with it as well.
Yo, haha np on the stack :P. Thoughts on the hand anyone? Been runnin about 15/12 this month (9BB/100 tho). Nitty for sure I know. Last month was more around 18-20/16. Was pretty meh. I'm an ex FRer for now so I'm working hard to break out of my nitty shell.
As for that short session, I was kinda stuck between your aggro ass and those stationy fellas behind me. Wasn't seein shit for cards and didn't feel like gettin into it with you with my garbage. Didn't get to see much postflop play so I wasn't sure what to do with you. Thx for the tips tho will defo keep that in mind next time. The A7o hand was lulz tho. I get paranoid if I run into any FTRers at the table (trying not to do anything stupid). Was still trying to feel you out. Generally I do start getting active with the 3bets vs. habitual stealers.
I'm in Poland with my wife right now visiting her family sooooo Euro time zone? Leaving tomorrow tho back to the US. Mountain Time, Colorado. Would be down for some sweats/discussion for sure. I'll PM you some shit and once I get back to the states we can hopefully get on that.
Quite certainly, yes it's a fold oop. I like it fine for a raise on the button 3-way against nitty villains, though it's a bit laggy even for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith
Weasel, playing supper-short-handed, it's a game of trash hands. 2nd pair is the flop nuts, and we even cbet 3rd pair more often than not. We're using pot control, trying to get a bet or two in when good, ditch when we face resistance. Big pairs are what we need to play medium and big pots. Otherwise, we have to fold to any raise and most bets.
The key is get reads. What does he do when I raise a cbet? When I 3bet him oop? ip? When I call then donk the flop? When I 3bet and auto-cbet a dry board? a wet board? All the stuff your HUD can't tell you.
You find lines he likes to play with a hand. Say I'm facing a typical TAGG-reg villain HU. I've pfr'd and cbet three times on flops that have no high cards, and the last two he's check/called and led out on the turn. I folded. OK, that's his "I can beat your junky hand" line. If he's smart, it's as weak as top pair or 2nd pair + good kicker and will soon include some air to "play back at us." Now, a few hands later, I pick up KK and the flop come 8 4 2. I'm using that line again, and raising the turn all-in except for an A, 8 or completed flush draw. I'm hoping he thinks I'm so agro donk I'd do it with 4x or A5.
You watch how he reacts to flush draw flops when he's the pfr, and when you are. Any time you've played a certain way, and he's run over you - probably with air - but it beats your air so you fold. You're noting that. He's labeled that my "weakass" line. OK, now I've got AsKs and a flush draw, let's use that line and then jam all-in on the flop with 15 outs (and maybe not even behind at all).
There's more to it, but those examples give you an idea. The flop is easy to play if we start with cards 8 or higher in our hand and hit the flop. The flop is really hard to play with two low cards whether we hit the flop or not. So super-short-handed we want big card value. You can play a lot of Ax, Kx and Qxs that you would never play at a full 6max table. And you can't play some low "implied odds" hands, including small pp's which are almost worthless HU unless you flop a set.
care 2 share?Quote:
Originally Posted by Robb
can you break this down, plizz?Quote:
Originally Posted by !Luck
wot would be your list of priority concepts for the micro-bonk?
i sooooooo need someone to do thisQuote:
Originally Posted by supa
when you post a range, it shows what your thinking bout through out the hand (its an embarrassing thing to have your range torn to shreds let me tell you) then folks with better poker brains can tell you where your going wrong. it makes a fuck tonne of sense but sometimes folks just want to know what villains range is cos they don't got a klue then when every fucker and his dog is like durrrrrr put villain on a fucking range and you go fuck you bc ima fuck off to 2+2 or some other shit for brains forum. nobody gets better but some folks get to feel oh so important cos they said the range thing first. ima drunkard
It's Keith's to share, as he put it all together. I will post some graphs that he suggested and what I think I'm looking at.Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleJ
The rough outline is a target of 24/22 TAGG approach to 6max micros, and obviously not flatting much. Get rid of hands like Axs, sc's and small pp's EP and MP, 3 bet a goodish amount in LP, steal and defend the blinds with raises instead of a wide calling range.
Me?Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleJ
Let's remember that it's still the micros, where the majority of players are too passive. Even the "TAGG's" call too much. So you have to have hand at showdown to win. That means:
1. Play tighter preflop
2. 3bet more preflop, call less
3. Learn to abuse position, steal with a wide range, and above all to get away (fast!) from hands that can lose big postflop with only potential to win small
4. Cbet flops less oop, more ip, and avoid c/r's without a real hand
5. 2-barrel air next to never, and only with a really solid read that villain can FOLD
5. Learning to bet/fold in the right spots on the turn especially can earn/save lots of $$
Here's a thread I started some years back: Practicing RangesQuote:
Originally Posted by DoubleJ
I use a chunking method of grouping hands together to make 5% chunks. The system is simple enough I can use it at the tables, and helps me think about what Villain can have.
I don't know if this answered the question, tho? I can post some thoughts later in this thread if you make the question(s) more specific.
Here's some links for Double J:
Lesson 4 Noobs and The Noobie Never Do This List. Two short threads about basic "correct" plays and big mistakes I make at 10nl. Lukie's List of Exploitable Habits asks FTR regs to state one of their habits that thinking opponents could exploit. Great thread since most common leaks are addressed, and done so by FTR icons like Rondavu, pgil, DaNutsInYourEye, mcatdog, renton, jackvance, biondino, givememyleg, and pyroxene. Find leaks in our own game or exploitable tendencies to use in the Reg Wars.
I just grabbed those from the first page of my op thread, and there are others. Like these:
BJaust wrote a series he called "Thoughts on Beating the Micros." Each one is worth a read.
Thought 1, Thought 2, Thought 3, Thought 4, Thought 5, Thought 6, and Thought 7
Anything else I can direct folks to? I've been around a long time, and at various times haven't taken time to organize some of the best content on FTR. Why reinvent the flat tire? Some olds threads are dated as the games have changed, or new games (like Double-or-Nothing SnG's) have been invented. But many of them are still golden advice especially tailored to the micros and the new player.
Here's a fun hand. Put villain on a range, and see why it matters. And this one is pretty routine. Villain is 47/30/1.8 over 30 hands, with 9% 3b (1 of 11 opportunities). I think, if you get this range right, we're betting for value on the river and hating life if he shoves over the top.Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleJ
Turn and River are beautiful cards, since Ax, sc's, pp's and two overcards makes up so much of his range.
Merge - $0.04 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4
CO: $4.10
BTN: $5.34
SB: $4.14
BB: $4.11
Hero (UTG): $8.20
MP: $3.74
SB posts SB $0.02, BB posts BB $0.04
Pre Flop: (pot: $0.06) Hero has 9:spade: 9:diamond:
Hero raises to $0.14, fold, CO calls $0.14, fold, fold, fold
Flop: ($0.34, 2 players) T:club: T:spade: T:heart:
Hero bets $0.22, CO calls $0.22
Turn: ($0.78, 2 players) 4:heart:
Hero bets $0.39, CO calls $0.39
River: ($1.56, 2 players) 3:club:
Hero bets ??
Spoiler:
Hero bets $0.78, CO calls $0.78
Hero shows 9:spade: 9:diamond: (Full House, Tens full of Nines) (Pre 72%, Flop 82%, Turn 91%)
CO shows 8:diamond: A:club: (Three of a Kind, Tens) (Pre 28%, Flop 18%, Turn 9%)
Hero wins $2.97
I'll post more of my thoughts tomorrow. The river is interesting if he shoves. On only 30 hands, can we soul read enough to call?
Off to make my 3000th post!
From Keith's suggestions, I have 11.4k hands for the following filters.
1. Filter for 3bets preflop - graph should be steady upward profit.
Check. I have 354 3bets, +$20 profit, +$1 from showdown, rest from non-showdown. That's 141 BB/ 100 win rate. My 3b ~ 8% in 5- and 6-handed action (8% of possible opportunities, ~3% of total hands).
2. Filter for cold call = true. Should be a profit, if not, too much trash in range.
Check - sort of. I'm up ~$7 over 941 hands (19 BB/100). But I'm running way ahead of EV which -$16 ( - 44 BB/100). A glut of "big" suckouts are probably masking how horrible-bad my ranges are here. I'm down $22 in non-showdown pots, up $30 in showdowns. With bad luck on the river, I'm shipping a huge amount of chips here.
I've already adjusted here. I've tightened up the flatting ranges in all positions, and I'm attacking the fish/maniacs by folding more, 3betting more and waiting for good spots. I don't really flat premium hands, so the way to play is raisy daisy (ip) or fold the crap right damn now (all positions).
3. Filter pfr = true. Should be solid positive up up garph. Blue line and Red line should be upward trends.
Check. 2.9k pfr's, + $37 (31 BB/100), and that's 2 BI below EV. Won with showdown is break even, profit is the red line. When I filter for 5- and 6-handed, both Red and Blue are very strong positive gainers. Short-handed, I'm losing a ton with the Blue line, but I'm nearly $30 below EV, which is positive. Wheee!! You feesh are way ahead of me, but I'm a comin' back!!
4. Check for 60 < fold to 3bet = true < 70.
I'm at 73.3% fold to 3bet, so I'm a bit high. At 70% or more folds, Keith points out, opponents can 3bet any two cards and show a profit.
5. SB reraise steal and BB reraise steal both > 10% (actually, Keith's point is slightly more nuanced, but it would take a while to build the filter needed, so I'm doing the quick and dirty version):
Check. SB 3bet steal = 17% and BB 3bet steal = 14%.
6. Filter BTN 1st to act, should be 50-60% pfr
Check? My pfr in this instance is 71%. In my defense, I table select hard, and try to get nits to my left and agros to my right. When I don't have the right table, I go start a new one or find more fish. Still, something to think about, as I'm wide open to any light 3bet from the blinds, probably why my 3bet calling percentage is so high. I'm just playing trash a lot from the blinds. Still, big upward garph, so I'm not being exploited, yet. That will surely happen a level or two higher, though.
7. Flop cbet success should be approaching 42%, definitely not lower than 40% (cbetting too much), not higher than 50% (cbetting too little).
Check. I'm at 40.5% success. Can cbet a bit less, probably. Garph is up up up, with Blue up moderately and most of the $$ from the Red line, as expected.
Thanks, Keith, that was informative. For anyone keeping score at home, there was a lot more in the message. I just listed the filters and graphs Keith suggested along with the "what to look for."
I'm headed for bed. I'm feeling confident and happy with my game. I've tightened up (though not as much as some have suggested). I ran about 29/23/2.6 since my realization on Thursday when I decided to tighten up. I see two positives.
First, all my days of winning 6max before Black Friday, I was AF > 4. I had no diversity to my postflop play, and value-towned myself a good bit. I'm working hard to add the thoughtful check/call, the check/behind, the pot control and other things that make me harder to beat postflop. Calling may seem an odd thing to want to add in, but seriously, I just used to bet/bet/bet, raise/raise/raise and fold/fold/fold. I'm getting a lot better at adding (a little bit of) trickiness to my game by simply letting agro players bet themselves into trouble against me. I'm not slowplaying big hands, just looking for good opportunities to float serial cbettors when I'm likely way ahead, and maybe even float again on the turn. An AF ~ 2.5 seems like a major improvement to me. I know I hate playing against the 2.5's postflop, as they're very hard to trap and difficult to run over, too. When they call 2 streets, I'm sweating.
Second, I'm hitting the ranges I was hoping for. I've never played this wide open before, and the last three days seem like a comfortable spot. I could tighten up more, surely, but I can also play this loose and stay aggressive. With the action players to my right, and nits to my left, I'm happy to play a lot of pots, flat a bit more and 3bet small and aggressively when there are opportunities.
Jeez, it's bed time. Good luck at the tables, people!!
One more thing. Steal success is 45%, and I'm min-raising on the BTN. Anyone know good range for steal success numbers?
Earning 1.5 BB's nearly half the time I bet 2 BB's seems like it's almost financing itself, and I'm way better postflop than most of the villains I play.
Thoughts?
firstly, thanks for doing this robb.Quote:
Originally Posted by Robb
secondly, let me clarify that I understand entirely why it matters. I just can't feckin' do it. Yet.
OK, here goes.
I reckon villain calls PF with JJ-22,AQo-A8o,KQo-K9o,QJo-Q9o,JTo-J9o,T9o,AQs-A3s,KQs-K7s,QJs-Q9s,JTs-J9s,T9s,98s,87s,76s,65s
then calls Flop and Turn w/ the other T (KTs,QTs,JTs,KTo,QTo,JTo,T9o),any boat (JJ,99-22) and prolly any A (AQs-A3s,AQo-A8o).
OTR you are 4:1 favourite over this range
He will shove with quads, and depending on whether he's thought about what you have, he will likely shove all PPs and poss the Aces too.
Thoughts? Comments?
No problem! Thought of your post when I played this hand, as I was spinning through the combos on hyper-speed trying my best to narrow this range.Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleJ
I think your preflop range is excellent. We could argue over a combo here or there, but what's the point? His range is wide and includes exactly the types of hands you're talking about.Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleJ
I think there are a few more Aces in his range than you listed, and I think he'll call down with all of them. I doubt he's shoveling with them on the river. In my opinion his shovel hands are Tx, QQ+, and maybe A3, A4, 99 or 88.
The awesome thing is that he can't have most of them. As you mentioned, preflop makes the QQ+ less likely. I think QQ is in his flatting range, but not AA or KK. We can't eliminate them entirely, but we discount them heavily. Tx hands are eliminated in two ways. First, it's incredibly rare to flop quads, though most of us have done it. The Tx hands are a huge part of his initial calling range, but shrink massively after we see the flop. And for me, the turn really rules out the rest of them.
On the turn: I thought about this bet quite a lot. I decided to bet small hoping he'll raise with a Tx hand. He's capable of it. I don't think this entirely rules of Tx, but it made me feel like I was ahead heading for the river.
On the river: how much do you trust your turn read? It's rare that the river can't change anything, so the turn is money - or its wrong. I think Villain has Ax, small/med pp's here mostly. But I don't think he's stacking off with them. And he's certainly stacking off with the nuts or QQ+.
So pot control is perfect - get some chips in to get value from the range that will call down, and fold if he aggresses.
Cheers, but can't take credit - it's all Dan Harrington.Quote:
Originally Posted by Robb
The process, I mean. He's not standing here telling me what ranges to put villains on.
Unfortunately :(
This is what i need to learn to do now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Robb
Funnily enough, your 'chunking' post was one of the first ones i ever read on FTR. However, it's only now that i'm beginning to really understand it.
The chart that you reference - is that still available somewhere? The link is busted.
I have been going through various computers and finding various fragments of my poker study. It's not very organized as I just quit after Black Friday. I used to know where all the important bits and scraps and spreadsheets were. I'll post it if I find it.Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleJ
By the way, I can only manage ranges at the table if I think of hands in groups. I filter through the groups, guessing (your estimates get more accurate with practice) at the combos left. I can often get the range narrowed down to fewer than 5 hands by the river.
I need to practice, too. I'll see if I can find the chart and then post some HH's here in my op thread where I do the exercise, posting my own thoughts as a spoiler.
Two big leaks I'm working on, thanks to Keith's suggestions and some thoughts I've had. (Can you tell I'm at work with a 3 PM meeting and totally bored until then? Already worked out...maybe lunch? That'll kill 45 minutes!)
1. Plan for the hand. I'm good at planning up through the first flop action. OK, I'll 3bet light and check most flops if called. That's usually a decision informed by the HUD reads on opponents left to act, stacks, position and so forth. So it's a decent decision. My leak? I have no coherent plan for when he flats/floats, c/r's the flop, or c/c's and then checks the turn.
I play tighter when I concentrate on how I will proceed on various boards. What if I get called and the board is wet? Dry with no high cards? Often, with stations left to act, it's tempting to open/call too wide. This, I think, is where my spew-looseness begins. When I think about one more step in the plan, I find myself folding preflop more often. This is especially true when I think about flatting preflop. A lot of the hands I'm calling with are trouble spots waiting to happen, and I can win more by tightening up and thinking through the turn.
Solution: Plan your hands, donk!! Stopping clicking likes it's a video game and think for 3 seconds before acting.
2. Put villain on a gah-dang range. Srsly, dammit. I can put villain on a range with some success postflop, if I work at it. The problem comes when too many tables have postflop action at the same time. I narrow the range, act, then forget everything I just figured out. I go to the other table, figure out that range, then get back to the first table thinking WTF? He called. Ah, crap, what was that range again?
Solution: Be willing to play fewer tables. When I table select right, I have two or more agro-donks to my right, and the action can get really intense with every other hand going big and/or multi-way. If the bets are getting tossed around like dollar bills in a strip club, close down a table or two and focus on the big hands I'm involved.
By the way, the list of my leaks is too long even for one of my posts. But one that I'm happy I'm not repeating from "back in the day" is mass-tabling. I've been 3- or 4-tabling, and I'm comfortable with that.
One plan for studying is to 2-tabling while looking at some villain stats in the HUD, and taking more notes. I don't have to do this a lot for it to pay off big.
DJ, here's the file:
Poker Ranges
Each area is ~5% of all poker starting combos, and they are arranged (roughly) on the page from top (stronger) to bottom (weaker) in terms of their playability in HU, imo.
I'll do some work later and find a hand or two to go through and try to post one.
I would also start here, with ISF Fold Equity. Below the article are links to ~30 articles, about 15 of which are ISF's. You can learn a ton of poker by reading Danny's stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by Robb
Hi Robb - problem w/ accessing this - i've PM'd youQuote:
Originally Posted by Robb
Thanks
Should have this fixed. Let me know if link is still denying access.Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleJ
fixed.
nice 1, Sir!
Wow, variance. Lost 4 BI's last night, in like 250 hands. Eight coin flips, lost all but two. AK < 77, AK < JJ, JJ < AK, AK < AJ (all preflop). I jammed ATs flush draw + overcard outs over JJ and couldn't hit. HU is high variance, as I recall saying, but I don't have to like it.
Running almost exactly 2 BI below EV as all losses were close to 50/50. You usually have fold equity when you shove preflop, especially against JJ/77 type hands, so I'm not too worried about spew. But I got so punch drunk from the race-losing I quit after a couple hundred hands. Couldn't tell if I was playing stoopid so I quit.
Fun card game at the gym yesterday. Way sore today. Pick an exercise for each suit, something like spades = pushups, diamonds = V-ups, hearts = burpees and clubs = lunges.
In case you're wondering, burpees are down to plank, up and jump (hands to ceiling), back down to plank, etc. V-ups are situps with leg raises.
I've been doing cross-fit style workouts with the North Georgia Athletics strength and conditioning coach Blake. We do normal lifting: bench press, curls, rows, overhead press. We keep the heart rate up by alternating with body-weight exercises like pullups, lunges, reverse lunges, planks, leg raises (or spell the alphabet), dips and so on.
The lifting is high rep and semi-cardio, but the body-weight stuff keeps the heart rate high so it's a good 40 minute core strength and conditioning workout. Each day is different.
So the card game yesterday. We had 6 lifts, and in between we drew cards and did however many reps the cards said. 9 of spades? 9 pushups. No drama. But we kept increasing the cards, drawing one, drawing two, until we got to five cards. You're really hoping for 2's full of 3's about this point in the workout, but I had a two pair (Q's and 6's) with a nice suit of spades for 22 pushups and 16 V-ups.
Fun way to spice up a workout, especially if you and a couple of buddies are sharing the deck. Every card gets discarded, so you can see your odds by checking the discards.
Abs and pecs are REALLY sore, as I did about 65 pushups (hate those damn spades) along with 25 dumb bell bench presses and these things called man crushers: pushup on barbells, hold plank one-handed for row on both sides, then hop up and curl into overhead press, then back down. Took me about five sets to get all 15. Wow.
Light workout today, sort of, focused on abs.
Thought on flop the downshwong was still on - thank you, river!Quote:
Originally Posted by Robb
Merge - $0.04 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 4 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4
Hero (BB): $5.17
UTG: $1.84
BTN: $1.94
SB: $4.30
SB posts SB $0.02, Hero posts BB $0.04
Pre Flop: (pot: $0.06) Hero has K:club: A:club:
fold, BTN raises to $0.14, fold, Hero raises to $0.44, BTN raises to $1.94 and is all-in, Hero calls $1.50
Flop: ($3.90, 2 players) 5:heart: Q:spade: 4:spade:
Turn: ($3.90, 2 players) J:spade:
River: ($3.90, 2 players) T:diamond:
Hero shows K:club: A:club: (Straight, Ace High) (Pre 76%, Flop 15%, Turn 16%)
BTN shows A:heart: Q:diamond: (One Pair, Queens) (Pre 24%, Flop 85%, Turn 84%)
Hero wins $3.71
Well, the downschwong wasn't quite over. I'm up about 1 BI tonight, but running 3 BI's below EV. Typical cracked river aces pokers. Felt good. A couple years back, that would have tilted me hard. Tonight, I was wobbly for a just a few hands, then got it back online. I won't say I didn't tilt, but I didn't tilt hard and regained equilibrium fast.
Focus on the CO, who is 38/16/1.2. We can estimate his cold calling range by multiplying the gap between vpip and pfr by 2 = 2 * (38 - 16 ) = 44%. (When we look it up, it's 41%.)
We can use a 2x multiplier for quick cold call estimates on passive players, and 2.5x for TAGG's. It saves room in your HUD, and it's remarkably accurate - check a few villain's for yourself!
Merge - $0.04 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4
MP: $4.58
CO: $5.22
BTN: $4.34
SB: $4.55
Hero (BB): $2.80
UTG: $4.44
SB posts SB $0.02, Hero posts BB $0.04
Pre Flop: (pot: $0.06) Hero has 8:spade: T:spade:
fold, MP raises to $0.12, CO calls $0.12, fold, SB raises to $0.52, fold, MP calls $0.40, CO calls $0.40
Flop: ($1.60, 3 players) 2:spade: 9:spade: 7:club:
SB checks, MP bets $0.80, CO calls $0.80, fold
Turn: ($3.20, 2 players) 7:diamond:
MP checks, CO bets $2.40, MP raises to $3.26 and is all-in, CO calls $0.86
River: ($9.72, 2 players) 8:diamond:
Results
Spoiler:MP shows 5:heart: 5:spade: (Two Pair, Sevens and Fives) (Pre 52%, Flop 13%, Turn 5%)
CO shows 9:diamond: T:diamond: (Two Pair, Nines and Sevens) (Pre 48%, Flop 87%, Turn 95%)
CO wins $9.24
Robb's Ranges
Spoiler:Preflop
From the Chunking Sheet, I have his 40% cold call range as:
- Half Premium (exclude AA, KK, and AK, half chunk ~ 2.5%)
- All broadways (2 chunks ~ 10%)
- All Ax, Axs, and sc's 1-gap suited (2 chunks ~ 10%)
- pp's 22 - JJ (1 chunk ~ 5%)
- Kxs, Qxs (1 chunk ~ 5%)
- Connectors 9x: K9o, Q9o, J9o, T9o, 89o, T8o (1 chunk ~ 5%)
- Connectors 8x: 87o, 86o, 76o, J8o, 97o (1 chunk ~ 5%)
That's a 42.5% range - wow, he's just not folding anything!
After the second cold call, I narrowed this by getting rid of the bottom two categories. I think he'll keep the suited stuff 3-way, plus I don't think he can fold an ace or pp. So 32.5% range heading for turn.
Turn
This is where I narrow his range a good bit. He's so passive that I feel like he would check behind most of his draws. I'm pretty much down to 9x an 7x hands plus a couple pp's:
- 9x (narrowed from above hands): A9, K9s, Q9s, J9s, T9s, 98s, 99 (50 combos)
- 7x (narrowed from above hands): A7, K7s, Q7s, 97s, 87s, 76s, 77 (18 combos)
- pp's (AA/KK heavily discounted): 22, 88, TT, JJ, QQ (27 combos)
The interesting thing for me is that I was thinking 7x was a bigger part of the range, maybe 1/3. It's actually about 20% of his range when I count them.
I think MP can shove over the turn raise with a big 9x or better, and should fold otherwise. CO doesn't bluff 2/3's pot on the turn with air. MP has to feel this is going to showdown, as CO is not walking away from an $8 pot for only $.86 additional.
I know this - I'm glad I focused on CO and not MP, as I wouldn't have expected the 55 barreling the flop. I felt good about my read, with 9x the most likely hand, and 7x a distant second.
Started going through some HHs today using The Sheet, and I think I'm starting to get it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Robb
could use a few pointers tho, if you have the time
Cheers!
A quick point it looks like you missed about cold calling. If you are cold calling OOP, you're going to lose money regardless. It's just a question of am I losing less money then I am by folding? If you are losing -20bb/100 in the BB when you cold call with a bunch of weak hands(Need a huge sample to check this) you are actually probably too tight still and some people will be like omg cold calling too much I should tighten up! This is obviously a huge mistake but beginners/mediocre and even some good players(from studies I've done) don't understand this at all.
Fair point. I will filter later by position, check again, report back.Quote:
Originally Posted by Icanhastreebet
Like the HH with my complete notes (referencing the sheet) in the spoiler section right above your post?Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleJ
I'm planning on doing this once a day, and posting the good ones. Not every hand we pick up out of the database is perfect for the exercise, but I'm committed to the task. I learn by putting these ranges together exactly what they look like and how weak they are.
I will post more of my range practice, as after a while I get to doing it quite quickly and accurately at the tables. Let me know what you'd like to see or have pointers on, and I will try my best. I'm learning/relearning, so I'm that good at it. But I do think it helps a ton, and I've learned a lot playing HU about reading hands when they open wide ranges.
Up a BI in two short sessions, one last night, one this morning. Thanks to this hand. Stats don't matter, he's tilting. And he's run this shove over line several times on me and others at the table. I stacked him HU originally for 1/4 BI to start the tilt, then he bought in bigger.
Merge - $0.04 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 4 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4
BB: $4.74
UTG: $3.26
Hero (BTN): $3.12
SB: $2.88
SB posts SB $0.02, BB posts BB $0.04
Pre Flop: (pot: $0.06) Hero has 9:spade: 8:diamond:
fold, Hero raises to $0.08, SB calls $0.06, BB calls $0.04
Flop: ($0.24, 3 players) 3:club: 5:diamond: 9:club:
SB bets $0.16, fold, Hero raises to $0.44, SB raises to $2.80 and is all-in, Hero calls $2.36
Turn: ($5.84, 2 players) J:heart:
River: ($5.84, 2 players) T:heart:
Hero shows 9:spade: 8:diamond: (One Pair, Nines) (Pre 42%, Flop 80%, Turn 89%)
SB shows 5:heart: K:heart: (One Pair, Fives) (Pre 58%, Flop 20%, Turn 11%)
Hero wins $5.55
any reason for being 78bb? Arent you potentially missing value against BB by not being 100bb deep with him?.
Starting tables, I only have a 70BB stack. I play small ball w/ 2x BTN raises standard, and this adjusts the post flop pot-to-stack ratios more optimally.Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith
I lost a medium pot to someone else at the table - this table started to fill up within the last 5 hands. I don't have the auto-reload set, so in my HH's you'll see lots of "non-standard" stacks. I usually manually reload whenever I'm below 60 BB.
http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u...acaptain-1.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by Robb
Personally I've always felt a little meh about SPR.
nh though Robb, I'll be watching this blog.
Sorry if i'm being dense here Robb, but is that correct? His CC range is wider than his VPIP?Quote:
Originally Posted by Robb
That's what PT4 said. I'll see if I can find the hand again. Remember, it's cold cold % of times facing that opportunity, and the Merge nano 6max tables have been full of UTG min-raising idiots lately.Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleJ
OK, found it: here's the rest of his dumbassery preflop:
- vpip = 37% (103/276)
- call open = 41% (44/108)
- limp = 16% (26/164)
- pfr = 15% (42/276)
- raise 1st = 23% (31/136)
- 3bet = 6% (6/108)
- Fold to 3bet = 0% (0/4)
- Fold to 4bet = 0% (0/2)
Especially those last two lines show this guy doesn't know where the fold button is, at least not preflop.
Villain 1 (CO): PFR is 31/18/1.8 over 500 HH's with 44% steal. His flop cbet = 61. Let's see if we can get his range by the river. I'm not bothering with position stats - let's go with a range of 25% pfr (+ some junk) in the CO for him.
Merge - $0.04 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4
BB: $4.00
UTG: $5.23
CO: $4.00
Hero (BTN): $2.44
SB: $3.73
SB posts SB $0.02, BB posts BB $0.04
Pre Flop: (pot: $0.06) Hero has J:spade: 3:spade:
fold, CO raises to $0.14, fold, SB calls $0.12, fold
Flop: ($0.32, 2 players) 4:club: 4:diamond: T:spade:
SB checks, CO bets $0.24, SB calls $0.24
Turn: ($0.80, 2 players) 3:club:
SB checks, CO bets $0.60, SB calls $0.60
River: ($2.00, 2 players) 9:diamond:
SB checks, CO bets $3.02 and is all-in, SB calls $2.75 and is all-in
Robb's Ranges
Spoiler:Preflop
- Premium, Broadways Jx, Broadways Tx, all pp's, Axs/sc's (5 chunks, ~ 25%)
- We'll include some "junk" just to realize he could have a few other combos, especially Ax hands, depending on what he likes to add into his pfr range in LP.
Flop
Superdry, and he's not a cbet monkey. Hmm...let's keep
- All Premiums
- Half Broadway Jx (he doesn't cbet just any 2 overs)
- All Broadway Tx as most of them just hit
- Half pp's: 44 (obv), and 88+
- Axs, sc's: A4, T9s, T8s (I'm adding A4 from the "junk" portion - it's not unlikely)
Turn
Another blank, though a couple of draws became active. Only when the range gets narrow do I think in actual combos:
- Premiums: AA, KK, QQ (18 combos)
- Broadway Jx: AT only (12 combos)
- Broadway Tx: KT, QT, JT (48 combos)
- pp's: 44, 88 - JJ (22 combos) - - we excluded 33 already, don't think he double barrels w/ low pp's < 88)
- Axs, sc's: A4, T9s, T8s (14 combos)
River
Interesting card. How many of these combos can REALLY three barrel? And with decent sized bets on each street? Here's what's left:
- pp's: 44, 99, TT, JJ, QQ, KK, AA
- Tx: AT, KT, QT, JT, T9s, T8s
- A4
He obv 3 barrels with 44, 99, TT, KK, AA, A4. But bet-sizing is interesting and seems to rule out TT, AA, KK. He probably barrels with KT, QQ, JJ and Txs (but these are less likely). I don't think he fires two barrels with T8s, so I'd be surprise to see him show that down.
Robb's Best Guess (in order of likelihood): QQ, AT, 99, 44, JJ, TT, AA, KK, A4, and some Tx hands. I think he's got QQ, JJ, AT or a set.
Villain 2 (SB): Taking a look at the other villain, who is 47/9/1.0 over 58 hands with no 3bets. He calls 50% (15 of 30 chances).
Spoiler:Flop
This one's interesting. He's obv loose passive, but these guys usually need SOME kind of hand, some gutshot draw or bottom pair to continue with. And this board's dry as a bone. Here's my range for him:
- all pp's 22+, 4x and Tx
- let's put in some junk like Axs he's floating on a prayer.
Really, what else can he have?
Turn
Ah, some draws appear.
- all pp's 33+, 4x and Tx
- AdXd
- I don't see any 3x left in his range other than 33, but you hate to completely rule it out
River
- pp's: JJ, QQ (I'm discounting AA/KK, as I think they would have gotten raised preflop or flop. I'm getting rid of all sets completely, as I think they get raised on the river).
- 4x: A4, K4s discounted heavily (no river bet seems odd w/ trips)
- Tx: These are fine, I think he continues w/ Tx where x > 7 and probably wouldn't raise the river even with AT.
Robb's Best Guess (SB): KT, QT, JT, JJ, QQ plus other Tx, 4x and sets heavily discounted, other pp's remotely possible.
Here's the results. Ho. Lee. Crap. I was so wrong it's hilarious! If you haven't looked, yet, see if you can put either villain on a hand.
Spoiler:CO shows A:heart: 7:diamond: (One Pair, Fours) (Pre 49%, Flop 39%, Turn 27%)
SB shows 2:heart: 2:club: (Two Pair, Fours and Twos) (Pre 51%, Flop 61%, Turn 73%)
CO wins $0.00
SB wins $7.13
End of the day, I'm glad I worked hard on this and thought it through. It's amazing how awful these players are, and realizing the crazy combos that they can be playing helps a ton. Helps explain some of the "nut" lines I've had to fold my TPTK hands against, as well.
smartQuote:
Originally Posted by Robb
i'd like to say blame black friday, but who knows. There's been some weird stuff since ages, i thought that even before i was banned...Quote:
Originally Posted by Robb
still a few people posting good stuff as well though, which i am hugely grateful for - d0zer/m2m/yaawn/fnord all spring immediately to mindQuote:
Originally Posted by Robb
spoon backed up tough love with devoting a whole tonne of time to helping people and developing ftr resources. The hate seems absolutely stupid. Group dynamics are funny things.Quote:
Originally Posted by Robb
probably the best thing you can do to get better at poker. I never do enough of it, even though i know it...Quote:
Originally Posted by Robb
goldQuote:
Originally Posted by Robb
for all that i agree with what Robb wrote above, this is also very good advice for some people and in some situationsQuote:
Originally Posted by !Luck
Interesting spot:
Merge - $0.04 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4
BTN: $8.70
Hero (SB): $2.76
BB: $4.64
UTG: $4.34
MP: $4.00
CO: $6.91
Hero posts SB $0.02, BB posts BB $0.04
Pre Flop: (pot: $0.06) Hero has A:spade: 9:spade:
fold, fold, CO raises to $0.10, fold, Hero raises to $0.28, fold, CO calls $0.18
Flop: ($0.60, 2 players) 7:spade: K:spade: A:diamond:
Hero bets ???, fold
What's the best value line here, against TAGG's? Against loose passives?
I'm pretty sure I played it wrong, so would be happy to hear your thoughts. We don't want the flush to hit the turn as it will stop the action in its tracks. Not sure what the best flop bet is. Sizing?
i don't see that mixing 70bb and 100bb play is helping you play better poker. Maybe i'm wrong, maybe not. Are you varying your choices by stack depth?
Pre you can do most things. Don't bet flop if you have less than 100 hands of history - cos you're still aiming to make money whenever you sit.
Heh. I think i've met his brother Ho Lee Fuk. Also plays nanos.Quote:
Originally Posted by Robb
Quick question about The Sheet (TM):-
Is there any significance in vertical arrangement beyond the statement above? e.g. the Axo group starts between 87s and 76s. Is this important, or are they just "lower"?Quote:
Originally Posted by Robb
Cheers!
Not to sidetrack thread (again) but my whole beef with spoon was after I'd been around for a couple years then he just turned into the biggest prick in the universe (directed towards me). Not really sure why everyone else hates him, but I definitely have my own personal reasons. His teachings from pre-2009 are definitely gold.
Anyone else making custom stats in PT4? Took me a couple of attempts, as it's a bit of a train yourself guess-check-revise process with no hints, just compile or fail. Still, I'm getting there.
I went back to the maths that helped me understand poker the best, the FTC theorem article. Couldn't find the original spreadsheet, so I rebuilt it. Which was good. I found a place to simplify the formulas greatly and retain the usefulness.
My idea is to develop my own FTC ratios for different lines, so I could configure a popup and see a ratio of "fold to continue" for when the opponent flatted pre then donked the flop. Do this for most common lines.
The biggest hurdle, besides my SQL ineptitude, is the number of HH's we need for the figures to become significant. Initial work with the "faced 3bet" FTC show that I need > 10 3bets to have occurred for the ratio to be helpful.
You can't make them fold.
need any help w/ the SQL?
sure you can, just gotta try harder! (try harder = go full retard)Quote:
Originally Posted by Robb
$0.10/$0.25 Ante $0.05 No Limit Holdem
8 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com
Stacks:
UTG ($85.31)
UTG+1 ($29.30)
daven (MP1) ($67.07)
MP2 ($25)
CO ($23.85)
BTN ($67.05)
SB ($30.47)
BB ($25)
Pre-Flop: ($0.75, 8 players) daven is MP1 :8s: :js:
2 folds, daven raises to $1.10, 2 folds, BTN raises to $3.85, 2 folds, daven raises to $7.40, BTN calls $3.55
Flop: :qs: :td: :2s: ($15.55, 2 players)
daven checks, BTN bets $8.40, daven goes all-in $59.62, BTN folds
Final Pot: $32.35
daven wins $82.11 (net +$15.04)
BTN lost $15.85
$0.10/$0.25 Ante $0.05 No Limit Holdem
9 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com
Stacks:
UTG ($88.46)
UTG+1 ($62.50)
MP1 ($72.18)
MP2 ($40.90)
MP3 ($32.99)
daven (CO) ($30.58)
BTN ($25)
SB ($30.98)
BB ($64.94)
Pre-Flop: ($0.80, 9 players) daven is CO :8s: :6s:
2 folds, MP1 calls $0.25, MP2 raises to $0.75, 1 fold, daven calls $0.75, BTN raises to $3, 2 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 calls $2.25, daven calls $2.25
Flop: :5d: :3s: :4h: ($10.05, 3 players)
MP2 checks, daven checks, BTN bets $5.50, MP2 folds, daven goes all-in $27.53, BTN folds
Final Pot: $21.05
daven wins $42.13 (net +$11.55)
MP1 lost $0.30
MP2 lost $3.05
BTN lost $8.55
You never go FULL RETARD.
big difference in letting them call 200bb than 75 bb though
lol full retard...I tilted last night, lost 1.5 BI's, quit, took today off to watch the CL final and have margaritas with some friends, going rock climbing tomorrow. Will probably be down massively for the week, but I need some clarity and rest and rock climbing is probably best for that.
Robb, I sincerely wish you all the best and I hope you've used up all your runbad.
Have you tried rebooting your luckbox, maybe it crashed?
Thanks. Felt good in a session this morning, still ran a BI below EV. Got the money in good, didn't tilt. If I can keep doing that, I'll be fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucothefish
Rock climbing was cool. It's a pretty grim hour-long hike in and then back out, plus climbing. Fitness isn't where I'd like, but not too bad.
Thanks, DJ, I think I'm doing pretty well. I have 4 batches of custom stats created for FTC scenarios, and I'm working on the maths.Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleJ
Poker life is good. The time off helped. I had a lunchtime session, bringing today's total to ~800 hands, up 1/2 BI, 1.3 BI's below EV. Still getting the chips in good, and not tilting.
This made me lol - thanks, Luco!Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucothefish
I went through all my reasons for 70BB buy-in, and I did not find them compelling. I'm now opening all tables, super-short or full, with 100 BB stacks and topping up when I fall below 95ish.Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith
cool! I'd imagine your fitness doesn't fit too poorly on the FTR continuum, even without prop bets to get the psyche on!Quote:
Originally Posted by Robb
Down about 2 BI today. Variance hit on HU starting tables against a known TAGG, A9 < A6s, 55 < KK, AT < KJ, all 5bet shoves by me after he started 4betting light. Thrilled he'll call off his stack with A6 and KJ, but DAMN. Up and down rest of day, up about a BI in rest of action. No tilt, yet.
Luckbox relaunch on my mark, 3 ... 2 ... 1 ... initiate.
I played pretty good, down just a BI today, ran 4.5 BI behind EV.
Sorry this has turned into a bad beat bitch-fest. I just hope my stakers know I'm getting the chips in good. Hopefully, the variance will even out soon. I think I'm learning this game again, and feeling pretty confident about my reads tonight. Made several big river calls and was right on almost all of them. Bet for value in big pots after putting them on ranges.
I'm just in that stage where I cringe getting all the chips in ahead, just sure I'm going to see the river ping death.
This is impressive, well done.Quote:
Originally Posted by Robb
[ ] relaunchQuote:
Originally Posted by Robb
all-in -> minimiseQuote:
Originally Posted by Robb
i never see what happens once i've committed all of my chips. Boring huh? remember when i lost with quads vs a nasty river card? I didn't see it happen in real time... I've long since figured that it is at best neutral (and typically worse) to see their cards or watch the outcome. Obviously i review the hand a minute or so later for notes etc.
That's awesome - I wish I had that level of discipline. I only have 4 tables going on a 27" monitor, so I see all my tables all the time. I guess I could physically minimize it, though.Quote:
Originally Posted by daven
I'm pretty good at celebrating the "got it all-in good" or "yeah, my read was right." I don't tilt much over single bad beats, it's the garph that really screws up my head, when I keep dropping WAY below the yellow line.
Even last night, after several bad beats, I really felt like I was reading my opponents well. I 2-barreled with precision, made a few big river calls (that were right!), refused to bet hopeless flops against the stations, and generally kept out of trouble.
This is my last week of poker:
http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/1332/desktopptq.jpg
By robb_in_georgia at 2012-05-28
And on my laptop:
http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/5240/laptoppt31.jpg
Running 11BI behind EV over 4.5k hands. Wow. Just wow. Admittedly, I would be about break-even, not winning, if I ran at EV. I cannot deny there's 2-3 BI's of spew in there, but I have done pretty well avoiding tilt - getting away from the tables when I'm tilting, taking a couple of days off twice this week, etc.
I've seen these huge downswings, sometimes 25 - 40 BI below EV over weeks and weeks, from FTR icons. I guess this is still just a medium-sized one. Sorry for the bad beat posts, just wanted to look at the last two weeks, since beginning of downswing.
Here's the hands from laptop, last two weeks:
http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/2...nbadlaptop.png
Will edit in a moment with graph from desktop.
http://img607.imageshack.us/img607/2...baddesktop.png
So...17 BI below EV over two weeks, or roughly $70 below expectation. I guess it's not unbelievable, but it's certainly the worst run I've ever had.
At least I'm positive EV for the run, despite some tilt-spew (not as much as I would have two years ago, but some).
more climbing and exercise, less losing flips.
you're running bad. That's always horrible. I usually take it as a good excuse to go run some simple filters across the last few hands, find another possible leak or two, work on it => when i start to run normal again my true winrate has somehow increased. But you already seem to do enough work on your game, although, hmmm. Have you tried the simple 'take 5 randomly selected hand histories from the set vpip=true, saw turn=true, now consider ALL options at each point in the hand. Not just bet vs check vs raise vs fold, but sizing as well. 1/2psb vs pot vs overbet' approach to poker study recently. It's gold.
I read what you wrote above re HU starting tables and villains starting to 4b light. One adjustment is obviously to widen your 5b shoving value range etc (and that's high variance and heaps of fun), but what about slowing down post-flop and crushing them with superior skill after some cards come?
good, only reason for not buying in full is when the fish are less than full and there are regs that you find threatening that are full. Doesn't apply at 100bb unless you're already a good shortstacker.Quote:
Originally Posted by Robb
bold is really important - it's tiny sample, but still...Quote:
Originally Posted by Robb
Robb, a part of me wants to see you fail since you have, at times, been very cocky as to how easy nanostakes were to beat. I don't think you're necessarily running bad (my opinion), I think your playing bad. If you want to beat 4NL, don't start your own tables and play heads-up (high-variance) crap. Just slow down, play very basic tagg poker, as has been suggested, and you'll start winning. It's just that simple (maybe). It's definitely a better approach than you've had so far.
On the other hand, you seem tight with Daven, so I'd dump your whole BR into lessons from him, if he's agreeable.
Check.Quote:
Originally Posted by PlayToWin
Check.Quote:
Originally Posted by PlayToWin
Pending...Quote:
Originally Posted by PlayToWin
Hmmm....that was a drunken post! There may be some truth to it, idk. You've done it before (beat micro's) and you can do it again. Good luck!
hehe no worries
I quit opening tables after 4-5 BI's down, and tightened up to ~ 26/22. A few more BI's dropped and tightened up more, eased off on marginal 3bets/squeezes. Tried to flat less, cbet more carefully, not value town myself. Last 3k hands, I'm running more like 20/18/3.
I haven't posted a ton, but I have been in touch with Keith via pm. And I listen carefully every time Daven posts. I believe you and he are both right, him with a gentle reminder to "plug leaks," and you with the more direct version. The downswing isn't nearly as bad if you're playing well despite the bad beats, and I have to own up to the BI's dropped due to the bad decisions I've made at the tables.
So I think we agree. And I think we can agree that getting toasted every now and again is a positive life EV, as well.
All the best, PTW, good luck at the tables.
Sup Robb, I always used to check out your blog / posts when I used to play. Seems like you've always tried to explain the reasoning behind what you're doing which is probably my biggest weakness - so reading your stuff forces me to think about that sort of thing.
Anyway, I've started up again (2NL 6max) and will be keeping an eye out for your blog posts! GL.
I haven't played poker in about 10 days, first due to hectic life surrounding my wife's birthday when several families from out of town visited, then due to Merge's update and the subsequent PT updates needed to play with HUD.
My Summer Honors programs starts in a week (oh, lordy), and I have my summer class winding up along with a big consulting project due by Friday. Not sure I'll have time to play the rest of the month. Like to, though.
yo robb, i don't know near enough about your game to say what your leaks are. but you seem to be attaching too much of your attention to your winnings and EV lines and their disparities and etc. i know you are on a stake so you have to report results and etc, but there is seriously no point in looking at your EV. the all-in EV indicator shows the difference between your results and your expected results against the actual hand combination you got the money in against on that occasion. however, we all know that we play against ranges of hands and never against a single hand combination. thus, you can be running into the tops of peoples ranges (meaning your PT3 EV line will look shite) when really you are getting the money in in tremendously +EV situation (versus the range of hands your opponent can hold).
It's like the difference between the fundamental theorem of poker (what you should do if you KNEW your opponents exact two cards) and phil galfonds "G-bucks" theorem (which takes into account ranges).
anyway, you're a maths dude so i'm sure you understand the difference between the EV of getting all-in versus a single hand and getting all-in versus a range of hands. just thought it was worth pointing that out. all the best amigo
edit: here's a link i intended to post originally which basically renders all of the above obsolete. 'G Bucks' Conceptualizing Money Matters. by Phil Galfond | Bluff Magazine April-2007
Hey, folks, I'm back. I checked in with Keith about the staking agreement we had. I haven't played poker in 15 months, but I would like to. I will start posting again soon when I know the status of my stake.
Always feels like coming home when I visit FTR and start thinking about Pokerz.
Wow I was looking at some of the old graphs you posted. I agree that's some ugly runbad. What I would do is start from scratch right now and just start a whole new database rather than look at all those old losses which would definitely tilt me. Just a thought. That's how the variance works too anyway - no memory.
Good luck Robb!
Thanks, Griff, I've always appreciated how much time you take in the BC with players who are learning. Hope you're doing well.Quote:
Originally Posted by griffey24
I've been halfway grinding lately, trying to nit it up at 6-max 2NL. I won't get into many specifics until I hear back from Keith and my others backers. I have an open stake, and we need to settle on how we want to handle it. I have sent results, current plans and br amounts to them and I'm looking forward to playing poker again. We'll see what happens.
I'm at the 2NL's for a while, probably a month or more. No point in investing more br until I relearn this game. Loving Black Chip's 2NL tables with 50+ table VPiP's.
I'm running good, not sure if it's playing good since I've been away so long. I had a bit of heater and was running 24/18, last three days I'm 21/17ish, very consciously not trying anything fancy. No hero calls, no 3-b/4-b light. Just wait til I (pre)flop good and value bet the shizzle.
I'm rusty as hell.
I'll be in the BC posting hands and trying to learn something. I've already trolled some threads and tried to figure some HH's out.
I'm doing some stoooopid shit at the tables. I know it. My win rate is solid, but I know should be doing a lot better. I suppose it's good that, along with having forgotten tons, I don't have my bad habits any more. I don't have good habits, either, but I'm learning.
Starting with the A in ABC TAGG-nit poker. Thankfully, it seems the regs at 2NL suck worse than me!
So, agreed with Keith and MClan_Superman that we're sticking with the staking agreement as originally defined in this thread: Robb Returns.
So I feel better about talking about volume, stakes and where I'm at.
I had about $27 remaining on Black Chip when I returned last week, had a family member who plays there transfer another $40. Less than $70 in br, so it's 2NL for me for a while where the rake is 10 BB/100 (jeez!). I'm winning, but not crushing.
I do suck at poker, but I'm relearning. Keeping it ABC simples. Got the HUD configured, some basic color ranges in there and wrote some AutoHotKey scripts that move tables around. I'm playing on my laptop, so I'm using Rage and Nakumura's idea for hot keys to move tables in and out of a main stack. I have betting hotkeys and, most importantly, a folding hot key.
I haven't decided when I'm moving up. I'm up about $7 (3.5 BI!!) this week. There isn't much traffic at the 5NL's, so I'm trying to decide what would be best. There are bankroll requirements in the stake thread I have to adhere to. I guess I better good at the 2NL's and start crushing, or figure out a way to get more bankroll online somehow.
I'll give updates here and in the staking thread as there's news.
Good luck at the tables.
The intriguing thing about poker is that it's complex. I like it because it always forces me to think.
The 2NL's, lolz, right? Still, with 10 BB/100 in rake, beating it's no joke. You gotta think and play solid pokerz.
I have forgotten pretty much everything, and I'm relearning SLOWLY. But it's fun. Enjoyed playing this weekend a good bit, and I'm about to post a question in the BC.
I increased my open-raises in all positions. Before, I was opening:
EP MP CO BTN SB
4BB 3BB 3BB 2BB 3BB
I was losing/struggling to break even, get into tons of multiway flops, having trouble even when I hit the flop. I changed to:
EP MP CO BTN SB
5BB 4BB 4BB 3BB 4BB
Of course, I immediately went on a heater, so the temptation is to think, aha! i've just solved 2NL pokerz! Too easy.
Just curious what others will think of this adjustment.
don't be afraid to overbet with your monsters at 2nl. Their biggest leak is calling too much , so let them call ,bigger bets and raises and don't worry they will call (so yeah preflop as well as that will isolate yourself against fish rather than multiway). I've been doing a mini challenge on stars for the last 4 or 5 days 10 tabling 2nl FR and my god its amazing what i can get away with. some examples
Poker Stars, $0.01/$0.02 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 7 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.
MP1: $5.59 (279.5 bb)
MP2: $2 (100 bb)
MP3: $0.77 (38.5 bb)
CO: $2 (100 bb)
Hero (BTN): $13.91 (695.5 bb)
SB: $5.11 (255.5 bb)
BB: $5.57 (278.5 bb)
Preflop: Hero is BTN with Qhttp://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...ons/heart4.gif Qhttp://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...s/diamond4.gif
MP1 calls $0.02, 3 folds, Hero raises to $0.12, SB folds, BB calls $0.10, MP1 calls $0.10
Flop: ($0.37) 7http://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...cons/club4.gif Qhttp://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...cons/club4.gif 7http://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...ons/spade4.gif (3 players)
BB bets $0.18, MP1 calls $0.18, Hero raises to $1.08, BB folds,villain tanks and then types into chat 7d? and then MP1 calls $0.90
I fist pump as he just told me he probably had 7x and is dead in the water
Turn: ($2.71) 4http://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...ons/spade4.gif (2 players)
MP1 checks, Hero bets $2, MP1 calls $2
River: ($6.71) Ahttp://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...ons/heart4.gif (2 players)
MP1 checks, Hero bets $6.48, MP1 calls $2.39 and is all-in
Results: $11.49 pot ($0.30 rake)
Final Board: 7http://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...cons/club4.gif Qhttp://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...cons/club4.gif 7http://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...ons/spade4.gif 4http://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...ons/spade4.gif Ahttp://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...ons/heart4.gif
MP1 showed 7http://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...ons/heart4.gif 2http://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...ons/spade4.gif and lost (-$5.59 net)
Hero showed Qhttp://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...ons/heart4.gif Qhttp://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...s/diamond4.gif and won $11.19 ($5.60 net)
villain is 47/14 over 84 hands
Poker Stars, $0.01/$0.02 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 7 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.
MP2: $1.08 (54 bb)
MP3: $2 (100 bb)
Hero (CO): $6.82 (341 bb)
BTN: $1 (50 bb)
SB: $4.99 (249.5 bb)
BB: $10.44 (522 bb)
MP1: $0.52 (26 bb)
Preflop: Hero is CO with Jhttp://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...ons/spade4.gif Jhttp://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...cons/club4.gif
3 folds, Hero raises to $0.08, 2 folds, BB raises to $0.24, Hero calls $0.16
Flop: ($0.49) 7http://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...ons/spade4.gif 5http://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...ons/spade4.gif 2http://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...s/diamond4.gif (2 players)
BB bets $0.26, Hero calls $0.26
Turn: ($1.01) Jhttp://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...ons/heart4.gif (2 players)
BB bets $0.90, Hero raises to $3.14, BB raises to $9.94 and is all-in, Hero calls $3.18 and is all-in
River: ($13.65) 7http://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...cons/club4.gif (2 players, 2 are all-in)
Results: $13.65 pot ($0.30 rake)
Final Board: 7http://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...ons/spade4.gif 5http://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...ons/spade4.gif 2http://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...s/diamond4.gif Jhttp://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...ons/heart4.gif 7http://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...cons/club4.gif
Hero showed Jhttp://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...ons/spade4.gif Jhttp://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...cons/club4.gif and won $13.35 ($6.53 net)
BB showed Qhttp://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...ons/heart4.gif Qhttp://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...s/diamond4.gif and won $0.00 (-$6.82 net)
same villain is now 67/33 50% 3bet over 18 6 handed hands.
Poker Stars, $0.01/$0.02 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 5 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.
SB: $5 (250 bb)
Hero (BB): $10.87 (543.5 bb)
MP: $3.96 (198 bb)
CO: $6.95 (347.5 bb)
BTN: $2 (100 bb)
Preflop: Hero is BB with 7http://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...ons/spade4.gif 4http://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...ons/spade4.gif
MP calls $0.02, CO calls $0.02, 2 folds, Hero checks
Flop: ($0.07) 8http://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...ons/spade4.gif 4http://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...cons/club4.gif 4http://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...ons/heart4.gif (3 players)
Hero bets $0.28, MP folds, CO calls $0.28
Turn: ($0.63) 3http://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...ons/spade4.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $1.32, CO calls $1.32
River: ($3.27) 3http://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...cons/club4.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $7.40, CO calls $5.33 and is all-in
Results: $13.93 pot ($0.30 rake)
Final Board: 8http://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...ons/spade4.gif 4http://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...cons/club4.gif 4http://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...ons/heart4.gif 3http://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...ons/spade4.gif 3http://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...cons/club4.gif
Hero showed 7http://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...ons/spade4.gif 4http://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...ons/spade4.gif and won $13.63 ($6.68 net)
CO showed Khttp://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...cons/club4.gif 8http://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...cons/club4.gif and lost (-$6.95 net)
had to lol .....getting 350bb in a limped preflop pot.
don't be afraid to overbet with your monsters at 2nl. Their biggest leak is calling too much , so let them call ,bigger bets and raises and don't worry they will call (so yeah preflop as well as that will isolate yourself against fish rather than multiway). I've been doing a mini challenge on stars for the last 4 or 5 days 10 tabling 2nl FR and my god its amazing what i can get away with. some examples
Poker Stars, $0.01/$0.02 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 7 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.
MP1: $5.59 (279.5 bb)
MP2: $2 (100 bb)
MP3: $0.77 (38.5 bb)
CO: $2 (100 bb)
Hero (BTN): $13.91 (695.5 bb)
SB: $5.11 (255.5 bb)
BB: $5.57 (278.5 bb)
Preflop: Hero is BTN with Qhttp://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...ons/heart4.gif Qhttp://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...s/diamond4.gif
MP1 calls $0.02, 3 folds, Hero raises to $0.12, SB folds, BB calls $0.10, MP1 calls $0.10
Flop: ($0.37) 7http://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...cons/club4.gif Qhttp://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...cons/club4.gif 7http://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...ons/spade4.gif (3 players)
BB bets $0.18, MP1 calls $0.18, Hero raises to $1.08, BB folds,villain tanks and then types into chat 7d? and then MP1 calls $0.90
I fist pump as he just told me he probably had 7x and is dead in the water
Turn: ($2.71) 4http://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...ons/spade4.gif (2 players)
MP1 checks, Hero bets $2, MP1 calls $2
River: ($6.71) Ahttp://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...ons/heart4.gif (2 players)
MP1 checks, Hero bets $6.48, MP1 calls $2.39 and is all-in
Results: $11.49 pot ($0.30 rake)
Final Board: 7http://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...cons/club4.gif Qhttp://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...cons/club4.gif 7http://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...ons/spade4.gif 4http://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...ons/spade4.gif Ahttp://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...ons/heart4.gif
MP1 showed 7http://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...ons/heart4.gif 2http://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...ons/spade4.gif and lost (-$5.59 net)
Hero showed Qhttp://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...ons/heart4.gif Qhttp://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...s/diamond4.gif and won $11.19 ($5.60 net)
villain is 47/14 over 84 hands
Poker Stars, $0.01/$0.02 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 7 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.
MP2: $1.08 (54 bb)
MP3: $2 (100 bb)
Hero (CO): $6.82 (341 bb)
BTN: $1 (50 bb)
SB: $4.99 (249.5 bb)
BB: $10.44 (522 bb)
MP1: $0.52 (26 bb)
Preflop: Hero is CO with Jhttp://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...ons/spade4.gif Jhttp://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...cons/club4.gif
3 folds, Hero raises to $0.08, 2 folds, BB raises to $0.24, Hero calls $0.16
Flop: ($0.49) 7http://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...ons/spade4.gif 5http://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...ons/spade4.gif 2http://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...s/diamond4.gif (2 players)
BB bets $0.26, Hero calls $0.26
Turn: ($1.01) Jhttp://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...ons/heart4.gif (2 players)
BB bets $0.90, Hero raises to $3.14, BB raises to $9.94 and is all-in, Hero calls $3.18 and is all-in
River: ($13.65) 7http://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...cons/club4.gif (2 players, 2 are all-in)
Results: $13.65 pot ($0.30 rake)
Final Board: 7http://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...ons/spade4.gif 5http://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...ons/spade4.gif 2http://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...s/diamond4.gif Jhttp://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...ons/heart4.gif 7http://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...cons/club4.gif
Hero showed Jhttp://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...ons/spade4.gif Jhttp://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...cons/club4.gif and won $13.35 ($6.53 net)
BB showed Qhttp://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...ons/heart4.gif Qhttp://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...s/diamond4.gif and won $0.00 (-$6.82 net)
same villain is now 67/33 50% 3bet over 18 6 handed hands.
Poker Stars, $0.01/$0.02 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 5 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.
SB: $5 (250 bb)
Hero (BB): $10.87 (543.5 bb)
MP: $3.96 (198 bb)
CO: $6.95 (347.5 bb)
BTN: $2 (100 bb)
Preflop: Hero is BB with 7http://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...ons/spade4.gif 4http://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...ons/spade4.gif
MP calls $0.02, CO calls $0.02, 2 folds, Hero checks
Flop: ($0.07) 8http://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...ons/spade4.gif 4http://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...cons/club4.gif 4http://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...ons/heart4.gif (3 players)
Hero bets $0.28, MP folds, CO calls $0.28
Turn: ($0.63) 3http://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...ons/spade4.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $1.32, CO calls $1.32
River: ($3.27) 3http://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...cons/club4.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $7.40, CO calls $5.33 and is all-in
Results: $13.93 pot ($0.30 rake)
Final Board: 8http://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...ons/spade4.gif 4http://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...cons/club4.gif 4http://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...ons/heart4.gif 3http://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...ons/spade4.gif 3http://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...cons/club4.gif
Hero showed 7http://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...ons/spade4.gif 4http://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...ons/spade4.gif and won $13.63 ($6.68 net)
CO showed Khttp://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...cons/club4.gif 8http://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/...cons/club4.gif and lost (-$6.95 net)
had to lol .....getting 350bb in a limped preflop pot.
Thanks, Keith, like the 350BB in a limped pot!
haha love the 74s hand, nice.
One of my biggest poker leaks, even when I won, was the inability to understand the dynamic value of my hand. In real time, at the table, tilting, it's hard for me.
AK is dog poop at times, dollars at others.
I think my difficulty is thinking, omg I'm stuck 3 BI's, oh good, here's KK, I'll make some of it back.
I've got to bet like I know hand strength is relative. I've been asking myself every time I commit $$ to the pot, "Is this a good way to make money?" Old Robb tried to find a way that a bet or call could be justified.
New Robb just folds that dog poop.
Welcome back Robb.
I too am feeling the itch to play again after god knows how long. I basically hid in the commune since shortly after ze Americans got ze boot from online poker, perhaps out of solidarity but quite surely out of tilt due to a myriad of stuff that went down at the same time.
Maybe I should reopen the bar? ;)
First round for FTR is on me, if you do!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer
I'm still worried about br safety in the US, so I'm happy at the micros. Dunno what I'll do if and when I get to NL25 and the amount of money in my online br starts to matter. I'm not putting anything online I wouldn't be able to lose.