Game of Thrones TV Thread **HBO-Purists ONLY**

lol@ rational discussion

I'm actually allowed to like whatever I want about the show for whatever reasons I choose, or no reason at all.

I like high-carnage fight scenes and really like them over awkward unresolved battles that feature the survival of now superfluous characters, especially to establish the badassery of new characters.

IT's not that Jaimie raping Cersei is not in the books, it's not believable in the context of the characters of the show.

Danny Episode 2 season 1 vs. Sansa Episode 6 season 5 bear no resemblance to each other.

Wasn't Jamie a one armed bandit by then? I thought it made sense him raping her given that he was being made to feel weak and needed to reassert his dominance.

I thought the Sansa rape was a bit unnecessary. I wouldn't have added it in there. But it's not like I'm upset by it.

I agree that the Jamie/Bronn vs 3 young girls scene was pretty awful and one of the worst I've seen in the show. We didn't need a death to make it work though, it needed to make just a little bit of sense. I mean a prince and his bride to be can be got at by 2 guys who look completely wrong in their stolen guard outfits and have no knowledge of the area/building/whereabouts etc yet somehow they get that close to potentially assassinating both (I know that wasn't their goal but nobody else knew this).

Now the 3 girls did have local knowledge, yet thought the best way to get the girl was to just run in there in the middle of the day and attack, and nobody noticed them or tried to stop them (which I guess means they were right, but they shouldn't have been and should have known better).

It just made no sense.

I'm glad Bronn survived though.

I dont get the fuss over the Sansa rape scene, because I dont see how it furthers the victim storyline yall be upset about.

Take the bathtub scene. That is NOT how Sansa would have reacted when she was with the Joff. Shes got backbone now. From watching this episode, i get the impression that she feels like shes home...that she has allies...and that shes got some plan up her sleeve for the future. She told LittleFinger she wasnt ok with this marriage thing, he said "work it gurrl", and thats what I think shes doing. I mean, we saw how adamant she was about not forgiving Theon; I dont expect her to forgive these people either.

I think she has a plan. I hope its not simply "wait for Stannis to rescue her", and that its more like some epic plan of massively screwing her captor's over (like organizing a rebellion or something). It does seem like whatever plan she has didnt include preventing rape though, and I'm not sure how she could really get out of it anyway. Sex follows marriage, so it was kinda inevitable. Still, I see it more as taking a punch rather than taking a dive. Its not like she could just kill him with Reek standing right there and guards everywhere, so whatever.

But...it is certainly possible that shes still just some whiny twat with her head in the clouds. But I really hope thats not the case and I feel there was enough in this episode to suggest otherwise.

Certainly, we wouldnt need more visible victimization of Sansa to continue that kind of storyline; a simple gloat from Ramsey would do. But if we're trying to establish Sansa's character/feeling, and provide a basis for a change in perspective or a reason for revenge, this scene works.

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Originally Posted by boost

Right, but this is the show thread. There is a book thread. There are still two threads. People click this thread to discuss the show. I would assume in the other thread you guys talk about both the show and the books. Why do you think your book related insights belong in this thread as opposed to the other? Your assurances don't change any of these facts.

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I have expressed zero book-related insights here. It has been entirely show.

You're not remotely close to getting a lick of insight gathered from the books. The book thread existed for the purpose of those who know spoilers. Now that we know so few spoilers and that the vast majority of the show is new, we're in the same boat as you.

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Originally Posted by wufwugy

I have expressed zero book-related insights here. It has been entirely show.

You're not remotely close to getting a lick of insight gathered from the books. The book thread existed for the purpose of those who know spoilers. Now that we know so few spoilers and that the vast majority of the show is new, we're in the same boat as you.

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So stop talking about the books. Stop talking about what is and isn't in the books. Again, I think you're smart enough to discuss the show without spoiling whatever is left to potentially spoil, but this still remains the show thread. You're being a huge asshat by thinking that since it is now you who has read the books, you can reference them in here. Whether there are major book spoilers left or not, there just is no reason to have that discussion here. Case in point: you're not making these posts in OOTV's GoT thread, and you won't because that thread is heavily moderated and you wouldn't get away with it.

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Originally Posted by baudib

lol@ rational discussion

I'm actually allowed to like whatever I want about the show for whatever reasons I choose, or no reason at all.

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You're really going to serve up this weak sauce? Yes you can feel however you want and have whatever opinion you want-- but when you bring those feelings and opinions into a discussion, they are liable to be challenged. Retreating back to "I can think whatever I want to think!" is pitiful.

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I like high-carnage fight scenes and really like them over awkward unresolved battles that feature the survival of now superfluous characters, especially to establish the badassery of new characters.

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In the same way that a new character killing Bronn would have established their badass cred, Ramsey's treatment of Sansa and Theon establish his super villian cred. This is a dark show, and villains can't simply be people that do a few mean and selfish things. Theon burned two innocent little boys and beheaded a man who mentored him all his life. Theon is and has always been a sympathetic character.

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IT's not that Jaimie raping Cersei is not in the books, it's not believable in the context of the characters of the show.

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Right, so if we see this through to it's conclusion, the show runners are deliberately planting rape scenes to troll us. Makes sense.

Oh, wait, no, it's more likely that your knee jerked and once that happened you were incapable of examining the scene and characters objectively.

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Danny Episode 2 season 1 vs. Sansa Episode 6 season 5 bear no resemblance to each other.

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It is the exact same scenario. Exactly.

http://i.gyazo.com/bcf68ed051b8745e94d71039f3173c30.png

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Originally Posted by boost

You're really going to serve up this weak sauce? Yes you can feel however you want and have whatever opinion you want-- but when you bring those feelings and opinions into a discussion, they are liable to be challenged. Retreating back to "I can think whatever I want to think!" is pitiful.



In the same way that a new character killing Bronn would have established their badass cred, Ramsey's treatment of Sansa and Theon establish his super villian cred. This is a dark show, and villains can't simply be people that do a few mean and selfish things. Theon burned two innocent little boys and beheaded a man who mentored him all his life. Theon is and has always been a sympathetic character.



Right, so if we see this through to it's conclusion, the show runners are deliberately planting rape scenes to troll us. Makes sense.

Oh, wait, no, it's more likely that your knee jerked and once that happened you were incapable of examining the scene and characters objectively.



It is the exact same scenario. Exactly.

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Right, because seeing Ramsay flay men alive or cut their penises off or have his ex-lover's eaten by dogs didn't drive home the villain part.

Danny was a teenage girl who was basically raised to be pimped out by her brother. Sansa was raised properly as a lord's daughter and who we have seen to be evolving into a much more cunning and scheming individual with her own agenda, under the masterful tutelage of perhaps the best in the "Game" -- Littlefinger.

The characters aren't remotely in the same place and for you to fail to recognize that is simply astonishing.

I'm not at all jazzed with this show's ability to write rape, but some of the cultural fascism is getting out of hand with protesting the use of rape in fiction at all. In a show like game of thrones which consistently pushes the envelope (something I'm in favor of) but isn't a particularly good show (something I'm against), it's hard for me to pick a side on an issue like this. I think I'll pick the side that doesn't have radical feminists on it, for now.

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Originally Posted by boost

So stop talking about the books. Stop talking about what is and isn't in the books. Again, I think you're smart enough to discuss the show without spoiling whatever is left to potentially spoil, but this still remains the show thread. You're being a huge asshat by thinking that since it is now you who has read the books, you can reference them in here. Whether there are major book spoilers left or not, there just is no reason to have that discussion here. Case in point: you're not making these posts in OOTV's GoT thread, and you won't because that thread is heavily moderated and you wouldn't get away with it.

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I have done nothing of which you accuse me. The only reference of the books I have made is of the divergence. A reference everybody has made many times, and I thought was kosher. I can't say if I shit in your salad, but seriously, there's no need to imagine the worst. I did not do what you say I did.

The sad thing is that I have a great reluctance to post show-specific speculation in this thread because I assume I'm going to be accused of doing something wrong. It's par for the course. Better to just not even post.

I might come off as an asshole here, but can someone explain how the Sansa scene was actually a rape?

She clearly doesn't like Ramsey and doesn't WANT to marry/fuck him, but she did agree to go through with the marriage and obviously understood what she was signing up for that night. She was scared and uncomfortable, but she never fought it, said no, or made any other indication that she was trying to stop it. And the stuff with Reek/Theon made it even worse, but is that enough to call it rape?

She didn't say yes! Have you not been reading spoon's posts I'm the rando thread?

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Originally Posted by wufwugy

I have done nothing of which you accuse me. The only reference of the books I have made is of the divergence. A reference everybody has made many times, and I thought was kosher. I can't say if I shit in your salad, but seriously, there's no need to imagine the worst. I did not do what you say I did.

The sad thing is that I have a great reluctance to post show-specific speculation in this thread because I assume I'm going to be accused of doing something wrong. It's par for the course. Better to just not even post.

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You've consistently harped on the divergence of the show from the books. This is the same as talking about what is and isn't in the books. And even if you want to argue that it isn't what purpose does it serve in a thread specifically created for non-book readers who want to discuss the show without book discussion? There is a ton to talk about with regards to the show, and you've talked about a lot of it-- but then you needlessly include references to where the show departs from the books. I feel like referencing the divergences is something that has been happening more, but I don't know when it became kosher or commonplace. My guess is that it coincides with when you became a bookreader.

Now let me reiterate: I don't think you've been spoiling, certainly not in a "lol can't wait til you guys see the red wedding!" kind of way, but book talk tends to breed book talk. Why are we allowing grey areas here when there is no advantage?

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Originally Posted by Renton

http://i.gyazo.com/bcf68ed051b8745e94d71039f3173c30.png

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lol.

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Originally Posted by Hawk

I might come off as an asshole here, but can someone explain how the Sansa scene was actually a rape?

She clearly doesn't like Ramsey and doesn't WANT to marry/fuck him, but she did agree to go through with the marriage and obviously understood what she was signing up for that night. She was scared and uncomfortable, but she never fought it, said no, or made any other indication that she was trying to stop it. And the stuff with Reek/Theon made it even worse, but is that enough to call it rape?

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She didn't exactly have a choice with Baelish, and she certainly didn't think she was agreeing to rough sex in front of the broken shell of the man who was once like a brother and now who she believes brutally murdered he two young brothers.

And while I think some of the redefining of rape that is currently taking place is ridiculous, her lack of consent here is clearly not consent. At the point of the actual scene, and probably before it, she surely realized she had made a mistake, but there is no way out once she's in Winterfell. Saying "no" doesn't change the outcome, just like it doesn't change whether it was rape or not.

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Originally Posted by baudib

Right, because seeing Ramsay flay men alive or cut their penises off or have his ex-lover's eaten by dogs didn't drive home the villain part.

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Again, why do you insist that rape is the straw that broke the camels back? It's hard to say, because I haven't experienced either, but I would hazard a guess that severe genital mutilation is objectively worse of an act of violence to suffer than rape. So why is rape the place for outrage? If you're upset at all the dark shit in this show, fine-- but that's not how it's coming across.

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Danny was a teenage girl who was basically raised to be pimped out by her brother. Sansa was raised properly as a lord's daughter and who we have seen to be evolving into a much more cunning and scheming individual with her own agenda, under the masterful tutelage of perhaps the best in the "Game" -- Littlefinger.

The characters aren't remotely in the same place and for you to fail to recognize that is simply astonishing.

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This is awfully close to "well, what was she wearing?" I'm really not even sure what you're tying to say. What happened to Daenerys certainly had a different tone to it, but when else are we going to have two rapes in one show, both taking place as the consummation of a political marriage the bride wanted no part in?

If you're trying to say that the writers messed up Sansa's arc, because she's supposed to be a bad ass schemer now-- I don't really agree at this point, and I think it's kind of absurd to make that claim before the arc wraps.

And if we can pivot a bit and actually talk about the show-- I'm not sure you're reading the Sansa/Baelish relationship right. He revealed more of his hand to her than he does to others, but I don't think that this is because he sees her as a potential equal. He's playing her just like he's playing everyone else. It just so happens that what it takes to play her is to reveal more than he otherwise would. It's a classic con: convince the mark that they themselves are the ones doing the conning.

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Originally Posted by boost

You've consistently harped on the divergence of the show from the books. This is the same as talking about what is and isn't in the books. And even if you want to argue that it isn't what purpose does it serve in a thread specifically created for non-book readers who want to discuss the show without book discussion? There is a ton to talk about with regards to the show, and you've talked about a lot of it-- but then you needlessly include references to where the show departs from the books. I feel like referencing the divergences is something that has been happening more, but I don't know when it became kosher or commonplace. My guess is that it coincides with when you became a bookreader.

Now let me reiterate: I don't think you've been spoiling, certainly not in a "lol can't wait til you guys see the red wedding!" kind of way, but book talk tends to breed book talk. Why are we allowing grey areas here when there is no advantage?

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I think it's bookreaders trying to preempt claims that they're posting with extra knowledge.

I feel like if I were to just have an opinion on something out of the blue it would make people suspect it might be book knowledge. I think that's why a lot of the time the bookies have said something, they include the statement that there has been a divergence.

That said I probably won't be comfortable posting until this season is done, even though there are some pretty big predictions I have that have nothing to do with the books.

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Originally Posted by wufwugy

I think it's bookreaders trying to preempt claims that they're posting with extra knowledge.

I feel like if I were to just have an opinion on something out of the blue it would make people suspect it might be book knowledge. I think that's why a lot of the time the bookies have said something, they include the statement that there has been a divergence.

That said I probably won't be comfortable posting until this season is done, even though there are some pretty big predictions I have that have nothing to do with the books.

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Yeah, I mean, I think we've gotten too deep into this, and in the end it doesn't really matter. You're a good dude, and I like seeing your posts in this thread and others. I get where you're coming from in regards to framing any predictions so that people don't think you're spoiling.

*shrug*

Disappointed in this one. Not enough rape or Bronn death.

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Originally Posted by baudib

Disappointed in this one. Not enough rape or Bronn death.

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lol.

Loved it. Finally going places. Bronn death would have been terrible. I can't see a single good reason to kill him.

Disheveled Sansa is fucking hot. It's probably the bed hair.

Loved Jorah dismantling the pit fighters like a real knight should. Fantastic directorial choice. That's how Barristan should have performed against the harpies before a mass of them overwhelmed him.

I'm jonesing for a Brienne rampage, slicing fools left and right as she comes for Sansa.

Looks like the mountains of foreshadowing of sacrificing Shireen was legit. No idea how this is going down. A while back I predicted Stannis would be enraged at Melisandre for even suggesting it and would betray her. But apparently that's not how it's going down. The first half of this season suggested the writers are turning Stannis hero so they can kill him off for shock just like with Oberyn and Robb and Ned to some extent, but now I don't think that. It looks like that was to set up something having to do with Shireen instead.

Tyene's tits are glorious. Pretty sure she's my new favorite (sorry Ros). Maybe it was the lighting, but that body is sleek.

Kinda hate Sam and Gilly banging. I mean, I enjoy that Sam and Gilly have a thing, but I think the only way Sam breaks his vows there is if it comes out of cowardice. But that narrative doesn't work since the writers have gone a long way to show that he is no longer a coward.

Daario is the worst casting ever. He's far too gentle, suave, and normal for anybody to believe him when he proposes mass slaughter of the masters.

Jon Snow has upped his game this season. He's no longer brooding and full of angst.

I originally figured Melisandre would sacrifice Shireen somehow without Stannis knowing it, but now that he knows it, I don't see any way he can do it. He would become the biggest villain of the series if he allowed that. Fans would hate him worse than Ramsay or Joffrey for killing his sweet daughter. There's no way he can do it.

So v good

PS

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Originally Posted by Renton

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So v good

Finally watched Sunday's episode last night (was out of town and didn't bother with hbo go).

Didn't see that coming with Cersei!

It was cool that they showed a lot of characters this time. Would have liked to see Arya but I guess it's hard to fit everything into an hour slot.

Looks like I was wrong, and Sansa is just always gonna be a victim. Le sigh.

Lovely episode. Started slowly, but did bring up strong emotions and development for many characters.

How unexpected it would be that Dany would just chop Tyrion's head off. After all, Tyrion's brother killed his father (Mad King), Tyrion's father masterminded the Sack of King's Landing and Tyriön's sister is Usurper's wife. Just chop-chop.

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Originally Posted by JKDS

Looks like I was wrong, and Sansa is just always gonna be a victim. Le sigh.

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It's pretty lame to always demand the same stale innocent-maturity through hardship-triumphant story arc. Sansa can both always be the victim and have interesting character development.

Nice episode again. I guess next episode Brienne will save Sansa so she can finally catch a break, or will there be another twist there?

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Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

but my real hang up was with the head of the faith playing to cersei's tune.

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Was just catching up reading this thread - lol rilla.

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Originally Posted by boost

It's pretty lame to always demand the same stale innocent-maturity through hardship-triumphant story arc. Sansa can both always be the victim and have interesting character development.

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I agree, but I think the helpless victim story arc is even worse. I had some high hopes that she was doing all this as just some sort of plan, and it turns out shes still just helplessly going from day to day. Id rather see her try and save herself and fail than be forever abused.

Huh. Im starting to sound like someone who is upset that an abused wife stays with her husband :/ Its cool that the show is making me mimic that feeling.

I'd like to think that she's a sort of character foil to Daenerys, and possibly a sort of three way foil with Margery. Hell, now that I think of it, every highborn woman in the show. Sometimes you're lucky, like Cat, sometimes you're lucky, but don't realize it, like Cersei, and sometimes you're a Sansa. Other times things break incredibly well for women in this world, and despite their sole worth ostensibly being as a pawn in a political marriage, you very rarely might get the right woman who gains just enough footing to become a Daenerys. This is the exception though, and so the unfortunate rest act as counterpoints to give us an accurate view of a highborn woman's life in this world.

Feels like the Dorne storyline is going to be tortuously drawn out the way the Dany storyline is.

I can see that happening, but I also could see it moving much faster since the Lannister's position is so significantly weakened.

I think Jaime is not long for this world. I think we see one last good fight from him-- almost certainly vs. the battle axe guy in a trial by combat. It's funny, because the root of my speculation is that Jaime's character's arc doesn't have too many places to go, there's no chance he's returning to Kings Landing, and saving his Daughter and going out like more or less a hero, as well his death works into the Lannister downfall arc.

Now why it's funny is because the specificity of my speculation regarding his demise is all based on the fact that his golden hand's arc has not been completed. The gold hand was cast and attached to the infamous arm of Jaime Lannister, then despite being the most baller prosthetic limb in all of Westeros and Esso combined, it was a burden in Jaime's attempt to regain his skills in combat. And clearly the little skirmish with the Dornish boarder patrol where the golden hand finally hits its stride is only rising action, not a proper arc climax.

The only possible deaths that would bother me more than Jaimie are Arya and Danny.

Maybe Littlefinger, because killing Littlefinger makes no sense.

The problem with killing off Jaimie is that it leaves so many fascinating unresolved issues.

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Originally Posted by baudib

The problem with killing off Jaimie is that it leaves so many fascinating unresolved issues.

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Like? (This isn't meant to be argumentative, I'm just drawing a blank and am hoping you can jog my memory)

As the man who literally ended the Targaryen dynasty, an endgame encounter between him and Dany would be pretty awesome.

Along similar lines...well we can speculate about Jon Snow's lineage but we know as a Stark he has no love for the Lannisters either. Jaimie represents all the best and worst of the Lannisters.

I don't know if there's any real payoff in a Brienne-Jaimie "romance," as it seems likely they played a part in each other's development, but it's definitely a thing.

Dany has already linked up with Tyrion, is the farewell from last season really the last time the two brothers will meet?

http://designyoutrust.com/wp-content...ny-650x311.jpg

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Originally Posted by JKDS

I agree, but I think the helpless victim story arc is even worse. I had some high hopes that she was doing all this as just some sort of plan, and it turns out shes still just helplessly going from day to day. Id rather see her try and save herself and fail than be forever abused.

Huh. Im starting to sound like someone who is upset that an abused wife stays with her husband :/ Its cool that the show is making me mimic that feeling.

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Life isn't fair. GoT actually shows you something realistic for a change. There's a reason why it's the most popular show,

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Originally Posted by baudib

As the man who literally ended the Targaryen dynasty, an endgame encounter between him and Dany would be pretty awesome.

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Yeah, I just don't see these characters are some sort of arch rivals.

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Along similar lines...well we can speculate about Jon Snow's lineage but we know as a Stark he has no love for the Lannisters either. Jaimie represents all the best and worst of the Lannisters.

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Again, this just doesn't seem like characters who will or even should meet. But I'd have to think more on both of these to make these statements more than opinions.

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I don't know if there's any real payoff in a Brienne-Jaimie "romance," as it seems likely they played a part in each other's development, but it's definitely a thing.

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Their interaction is absolutely complete. Their characters propelled each other forward in a great way. Having them meet again would be gratuitous, and if you're going to have gratuitous character reunions, I can easily name a dozen other pairs that would be preferable. Further, Jaime's sigh and expression as he sailed passed Tarth is the nail in the coffin of their reunion.

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Dany has already linked up with Tyrion, is the farewell from last season really the last time the two brothers will meet?

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I think most likely, but this does make me rethink Jaime meeting Daenerys. With Tyrion advising, it could be an amazing scene-- watching Tyrion litigate in front of Daenerys for mercy for his brother who now despises Tyrion for killing his father and who, himself, is hated by Daenerys for killing her father.

But for this to happen, I'm sure Jaime has to win a trial by combat vs the battle axe dude.

You're probably right about Brienne-Jaimie. IDK about the others.

The Lannister dynasty in Westeros just feels a lot less of a thing if it's just Cersei getting WTFPwned by LF/Olenna all the time. The Cersei-Jaimie relationship can't be over, can it?

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Originally Posted by baudib

The Cersei-Jaimie relationship can't be over, can it?

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The Lannisters are pretty much the counter-weight to the rest of the nobility vying for the throne so I don't think any more of them will perish. Tyrion is immortal in GoT terms, he was even prophesized to do great things (that woman looking at him). Jamie and Cersei have to stick around - if not, there don't seem to be enough people left to keep it interesting in King's Landing.

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Originally Posted by jackvance

The Lannisters are pretty much the counter-weight to the rest of the nobility vying for the throne so I don't think any more of them will perish. Tyrion is immortal in GoT terms, he was even prophesized to do great things (that woman looking at him). Jamie and Cersei have to stick around - if not, there don't seem to be enough people left to keep it interesting in King's Landing.

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The Sparrows are the counter weight to the nobility.

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Originally Posted by baudib

As the man who literally ended the Targaryen dynasty, an endgame encounter between him and Dany would be pretty awesome.

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Funny to think that he stuck Crazy 'Ole Targaryen to end their dynasty, then he stuck Cercei to end the Baratheon dynasty. Guy's a slayer.

Crickets in here? Really?

Putting time conveniences aside, I thought the last episode was really well done. It had a fair balance of every story, didn't waste much, if any time, on minor details, and is starting to show a clearer picture on everything. I really like the Daenerys - Tyrion collaboration, but that's no surprise since Tyrion makes everything good. I think Cersei will end up getting her revenge, but am interested to see how it plays out. She's tough as nails, but damn it feels good to see something bad finally happen to her. I think that will be the last we see anything on Jon Snow/wildlings this season, and showed just how fucked everyone is against the white walkers. I think Reek will end up helping Sansa in some way but not sure how it will tie in with Brienne.

Don't have much to say but damn I'm looking forward to the final 2 episodes. I kind of wish they would make seasons 12 episodes instead of 10.

Also for those who haven't seen it for the lols:

Winter hath cometh!

Nice to see some action up North.

Sucks that there are only 2 more episodes this season.

loved this ep.

This battle was better than all the others because it was such a complete surprise. Think about it-- we knew Blackwater was coming, we know Castle Black was coming, there were a couple that we expected, but didn't happen or weren't shown-- but until that ominous mist started to roll in, there was no hint that it would go down.

Also, the Lord of Bones getting lulstomped was completely unexpected as well, and a great surprise ending to a supposed bad ass.

Nice ep. Was a bit faster paced than we're used of GoT. Seeing Cersei downtrodded was weird, I don't expect it to last too long but not sure. Tyrion and Denaerys are my dream team, that's awesome. And the big battle at the end, totally unexpected, but in another way it makes total sense for something like this to happen. The siege on King's Landing was also an ep 8 of an earlier season and this now adds urgency and a counter-weight to the fight for the throne as a REAL threat for everyone has appeared. I was onbly left wondering one thing.. John Snow's boat was so close.. do the undead fear water or something?

The water thing probably just has to do with trying to chase that boat from the seabed being a great way to not get it and to lose your zombie army.

Love Wun Wun. I hope to god he's kept as a somewhat regular character. I want to see him in several eps of each season. Killing all the giants before the "final" battle or whatever would be a terrible literary choice. I just wish they had a bigger budget so they didn't have to reuse so many of his movements. He needed to be doing shit like crushing skeletons just with his grip or flinging them off him in more than just that one forward thrust.

Wildling chick was fucking gorgeous. They breed em well in Denmark.

Loved everything about Jon's fight with the walker. Only thing I didn't much care for is how he exploded into water. I think I would prefer if Jon's sword embedded into his torso and the walker quickly began melting, cracks running out from the blade and water dripping from them. Maybe that would have been bigger budget though. It's just that the explosion doesn't seem physically realistic. It looked like Jon could have just hit him in the arm and he still would have exploded. But that's no good.

Yeah, I agree whole heartedly about the walker's death effect. It felt very Harry Potterish. I think, like you've guessed, it's just a case of picking where effects money goes with a limited budget. But in this particular case it comes off as jarring because the show is otherwise so graphic, and so this style of effect which normally gets used to ensure a PG rating feels out of place. The more decayed undead felt kind of LOTRish or Potterish as well. I think this same complaint was common after the episode last season in which Brann and Co. had a skirmish with reanimated skeletons.

As for the giant's animation being recycled, I think it was well edited, because I wouldn't have noticed if you hadn't pointed it out.

I like how "I hate fucking Thenns" has kinda become the show's joke like "I've got a bad feeling about this" or something.

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Originally Posted by jackvance

do the undead fear water or something?

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Yeah, it did look like a zombie movie where the living use water as a barrier.

I love how the walkers are so cold they extinguish fire near them.

I won't be surprised if the only fire that can kill them is dragon fire. I would like that less than if dragon fire couldn't kill them. If dragons can torch them than they're ultimately not a threat, but if only certain blades can kill them, the fight is even and dependent on humans overcoming them instead of just unleashing dragons.

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Originally Posted by wufwugy

instead of just unleashing dragons.

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We've seen Dany's 3 dragons. How many others are there?

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Originally Posted by Eric

We've seen Dany's 3 dragons. How many others are there?

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I'm referring to those.

I suspect one Drogon could torch from the skies the entire walker/wight army in a day. I'm hoping that instead of this happening, the walkers have significant enough power over the weather that they can stop dragons from flying over their armies that well or something.

It's gonna be kinda lame if salvation is dependent upon Dany showing up. I'd like to see her be significant, but if her dragons can just roast the walkers, I don't see where the conflict is.

Yeah, Dany's dragons are badass but it would be more impressive if she had more than 3.

The story is "A Song of Fire and Ice" so the battle of fire vs. ice has long been foreshadowed.

Dragons are not the only force of fire. There's R'hllor as well.

Pure speculation on my part that The Many-Face God will have a part to play that's larger than simply inspiring Arya. Patrons of the God of Death might perhaps have some control over the undead.

I just lost 2 hours on the got wiki. Think I might read the books after all.

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Originally Posted by rong

I just lost 2 hours on the got wiki. Think I might read the books after all.

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Skip 'em and go right to the tin-foil hat theories.

Doing so gave me minor spoilers :-(

Crinkle your tinfoil hat harder.

Honestly though, after Sunday, there'll be no more spoilers left. And the desire of fans to put two and two together is amazing.

Besides, I'm sure there's a better tinfoil hat that'll upturn whatever spoiler you found. Except for that one...

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Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

Skip 'em and go right to the tin-foil hat theories.

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i agree with this. the tin foil is so spectacular. im not even going to read TWOIAF or AGOT since I get everything "new" out of the ASOIAF world from reddit analysis and speculation.

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Originally Posted by rong

Doing so gave me minor spoilers :-(

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pm me what they are. i won't respond, just wondering what they are

Yeah, I'm pretty excited for this season to be over-- from what I gather there will really be no need for non-readers to shelter themselves.

No, you'll be free. Free to explore a world of time-travelling dead fetuses and immortal face-snatching patriarchs.

i think there are still going to be some new things in s6 from the books. there's a rumor of one. tiny stuff though.

Yeah, but with the stuff the show completely skipped over, I don't even think they're spoilers anymore. They could happen in the show world, but they also could not. Just hearing they happened in the books doesn't mean anything.

edit I can think of a couple of things that probably would happen, but I wouldn't care to spoil them. Compared to what's been missed, they're tiny like you said.

Can't wait for tonight's episode!

The episodes always seem too short.

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Originally Posted by wufwugy

Fans would hate him worse than Ramsay or Joffrey for killing his sweet daughter. There's no way he can do it.

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I didn't think he would either, but now at least they have another Joffrey.

I can't get over how ridiculous the end scene looked w blondie riding the dragon.

Rape rape rape, kill a child, tape rape, Battle, kill a child, dragon!

This show is so fucking depressing and it ain't that good.

Yeah, the amount of evil is mind boggling.

Sometimes there is no good guy. It's kind of like some mob movies, you end up pulling for the "bad guy" because he's not as evil as the guys who are really f'd up.

What ever happened to Bran Stark? I haven't seen him this season but I don't remember him getting killed.

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Originally Posted by Eric

What ever happened to Bran Stark? I haven't seen him this season but I don't remember him getting killed.

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He made it to his destination, met the "One Eye Raven", and he has not appeared again ever since.

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Originally Posted by FastOne

He made it to his destination, met the "One Eye Raven", and he has not appeared again ever since.

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Hmm, that's weird. Hopefully we'll get more info on that soon.

I just can't take Stannis seriously as a character after that.

The dude was so intensely unlikeable and life nitty and we got to see a bit of his soul in his talk with Shireen earlier in the season. The guiding principle to Stannis are duty and his claim to the throne is based on blood/family so yeah, just hand your little daughter over to the evil priestess. Like is this how Stannis wants to be remembered, the would-be king who was enslaved by an insane priestess and sacrificed his daughter to a bloodthirsty god?

It'd be one thing if Stannis were a true believer/fanatic, but the dude is just playing this R'hallor card out of pragmatism. I mean the slugs worked before, it's a big step from some slugs killing off Robb Stark and Joffrey to killing your daughter. anyway...

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Originally Posted by baudib

I just can't take Stannis seriously as a character after that.

The dude was so intensely unlikeable and life nitty and we got to see a bit of his soul in his talk with Shireen earlier in the season. The guiding principle to Stannis are duty and his claim to the throne is based on blood/family so yeah, just hand your little daughter over to the evil priestess. Like is this how Stannis wants to be remembered, the would-be king who was enslaved by an insane priestess and sacrificed his daughter to a bloodthirsty god?

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Agreed. Were it not for the "you are my daughter" talk earlier this season then it would be a little more plausible. They went too far trying to trick us or whatever about his thought process.

Do you guys feel GOT has lost its mystery?

I feel like a lot of what made Season 1 good was trying to figure out just what the hell was going on. Like, there was a "who killed the prior hand" thing; who pushed Bran down; what are Tyrion, Littlefinger, and Varys's motives?

Now it doesnt really seem like that is there. There are still surprises, like how sacrificing the daughter is gonna help Stannis, but the mystery is gone. Arya is learning to kill people, Stannis is gonna fight the flaying people, Jon has all these wildings to fight the zombies, ok cool. But it feels like now...we're just going through the motions.

Idk. thoughts?

D&D never liked Stanny the Manny. Him killing Shireen wasn't just awful by itself, but also in that the explanation of his motivation is weak. He was always a classic Greek tragedy, but they've instead just thrown him into the bucket with other affected elements meant to further their dystopian agenda.

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Originally Posted by JKDS

Do you guys feel GOT has lost its mystery?

I feel like a lot of what made Season 1 good was trying to figure out just what the hell was going on. Like, there was a "who killed the prior hand" thing; who pushed Bran down; what are Tyrion, Littlefinger, and Varys's motives?

Now it doesnt really seem like that is there. There are still surprises, like how sacrificing the daughter is gonna help Stannis, but the mystery is gone. Arya is learning to kill people, Stannis is gonna fight the flaying people, Jon has all these wildings to fight the zombies, ok cool. But it feels like now...we're just going through the motions.

Idk. thoughts?

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Yes. I think this is entirely due to the diversion. Over the seasons, the show has become less about mystery and realism and more about "hey let's strip away most of the nuance and create as much dread as possible".

For example, Ramsay is a caricature. He's a fucking joke. He's the Westeros version of The Joker. He's a brilliant genius master of all things. He crushes the baddest Ironborn with his sleek pecs and barky dogs, he eliminates the greatest living war commander's resources without even appearing on screen, he roots out all conspiracies against him regardless of how secretive. He's one of D&D's many stupid tools to make us feel that our heroes either can't win or need help from other more favorite heroes.

The story started out as one where every character had agency. Now many of those agents are just tools to get reactions out of the audience and yearn for every casual watcher's favorite agent (Kelly C).

The other thing that pisses me off is that I'm just sure that her death is going to do fuckall. It'll probably just melt the snow or some shit. Meanwhile a bastard's leeched blood killed three kings (*cough* Balon who? *cough*). So if we're being logical, burning the entire body of a princess should be enough for the walls of Winterfell to crumble overnight, Ramsay to go crazy and skin Roose alive, then Stannis' army develops temporary invulnerability and perfect-games the Bolton forces.

But no, it's probably going to be melted snow.

yeah the leeches seemed to do enough before.

Thats another thing.

They built up the leeches scene. It was like "one for each king". Then for the rest of the season we were like "Is Joff gonna die? Really? Nah".

Here its like...ok...so they burned her. But I didnt hear what for...so now I just know something is gonna happen. Well, ok, but I already figured that out on my own. Thanks. If the answer is just "they dont die in the snow"...well...ok. That feels cheap tho; because the snow only existed for this scene. It feels manufactured, and plot devicy, and likely just a means to kill off a character that didnt matter so much.

This is really the sort of thing where we have to discuss the books in order to explain why D&D have screwed the pooch so badly. None of it is spoiler, but about D&D fucking up the adaptation.

TO THE BOOK THREAD! AWAAAAAAAAAAY

the funny thing is while watching this ep i got a sudden desire for a tyrion/missandei romance. there was a glance or a grasping of hands. it's not that im the world's biggest sucker for romance (okay, it is), but i feel like that would be an incredible match.

Missandei is all mine, bitch

are we supposed to think that Jorah infected Dany when he helped her down? They made a point of showing them touching hands. was it even the same arm?

she's yours! i'll take tyene.

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Originally Posted by baudib

are we supposed to think that Jorah infected Dany when he helped her down? They made a point of showing them touching hands. was it even the same arm?

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i think so. i dont see much other reason for the obvious focus on hand grabbing and its supposed subsequent germ transferring.

i have zero predictions on what greyscale will mean though. i hate it as a device for the overall plot, but at the very least it could kick in the butts of dany and co. and strip away some of their plot armor

also the Unsullied are the most useless army of trained eunuchs ever

WTF at them getting owned by dumb slavemaster mercenaries

redshirts extraordinaire indeed.

the thing is that i have resigned to the fact that hollywood will ALWAYS get battle wrong. i want to just congratulate them on the times they make a fight fun and ignore the uncountable times they derpface it

granted, battle choreography is really hard and cost prohibitive im sure. i think they have to make the unsullied seem incompetent because it's far cheaper to have some dude stab them from behind than to film a unit adequately overrun.

I think the battle sequences in Vikings are by far the best I've seen on TV, with the caveat that no main character ever dies.

Dany needs better arena security obviously. first step is to stop and frisk people carrying harpy masks and large weapons.

hmmm i might have to watch that. i turned off the first ep 15 mintues into it becuaes of a crazy overuse of music

i think i realized i would love it if the ultimate victors are the walkers.

i mean, think about it, half of us have been saying how OP dany and her dragons are, and we've all got heroism and protagonism in the back of our minds. but what if they just fucking die and winter consumes all then game fucking over roll credits?

The show goes to great lengths to illustrate the fact that the Vikings were not some preternatural killers. They were physically very strong and trained for war at a young age but had very superior tactics and technology (longships).

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Originally Posted by wufwugy

i think i realized i would love it if the ultimate victors are the walkers.

i mean, think about it, half of us have been saying how OP dany and her dragons are, and we've all got heroism and protagonism in the back of our minds. but what if they just fucking die and winter consumes all then game fucking over roll credits?

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that would be pretty epic but people would be so pissed

I think the most satisfying ending still involves Littlefinger winning

thinking about it, that would be kind of awesome

this past episode serves to illustrate how truly powerless monarchs are to save ones they love. Stannis can stop Melisandre from sacrificing his daughter; Dany can save Jorah, but they choose not to, bound by fate/destiny/whims of bloodthirsty mobs/gods