10nl rush KK

$0.05/$0.10 No Limit Holdem
9 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG Hero ($10.63)
UTG+1 speedminton ($10.24)
MP1 antonioconto ($13.34)
MP2 RYSVAL ($16.76)
MP3 maxyee ($12.94)
CO vikser ($12.56)
BTN Leslife ($5.05)
SB varstr100 ($10.05)
BB RichardML999 ($16.98)

Pre-Flop: ($0.15, 9 players) Hero is UTG :kd: :kh:
Hero raises to $0.40, 1 fold, antonioconto raises to $1.20, 6 folds, Hero calls $0.80

Flop: :4d: :5s: :ts: ($2.55, 2 players)
Hero checks, antonioconto bets $1.40, Hero raises to $4, antonioconto calls $2.60

Turn: :js: ($10.55, 2 players)
Hero ($5.43)?

So preflop I find it hard to put him on anything besides maybe like 2 combos of TT 3 of JJ and then QQ+ AK/AKs

basically on the turn i feel like my money has to go in, but im behind, so what are the advantages of me putting it in versus checking to him first?

always 4b pre at this limit

as played lead flop and hope to get raised

as played shove river

Reads/stats/notes please.

There aren't going to be many scenarios where you shouldn't 4-bet pre, though.

i'd always 4b given 10nl rush. i'd call in higher stakes sometimes but usually mostly 4b.

as played jam turn. he's def not folding like 77-99 with a spade or like if he floated AK AQ wif a bdfd and sometimes you get a complete drooler here who will show up with like Tx and not fold that either

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bbickes

i'd always 4b given 10nl rush. i'd call in higher stakes sometimes but usually mostly 4b.

as played jam turn. he's def not folding like 77-99 with a spade or like if he floated AK AQ wif a bdfd and sometimes you get a complete drooler here who will show up with like Tx and not fold that either

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this

The only reason to flat pre is if villain is a blufftard.

On the turn you just have to go with it, half your stack is in the pot.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bbickes

i'd always 4b given 10nl rush. i'd call in higher stakes sometimes but usually mostly 4b.

as played jam turn. he's def not folding like 77-99 with a spade or like if he floated AK AQ wif a bdfd and sometimes you get a complete drooler here who will show up with like Tx and not fold that either

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No reads or stats unfortunatly :/ how often is he really 3betting 77-99 AK AQ AND calling my c/r on flop with it?

I feel like I beat 6 QQ's ~3 AK or AQ with a single spade (can't imagine more than 1 in 4 people calling with a bdfd and overs against a checkraise) and MAYBE 1 Tx, 77-99 and thats being generous. (and theres a lot of equity remaining for some of those hands)

Whereas I almost definetly lose to 1 TT, 1 JJ, 6 AA 1 AKss 1 AQss

like do you guys agree that im probably behind?

i get that i fucked up not fourbetting pre, but now basically im just confused as to exactly why its better to shove myself instead of trying to get to showdown without getting more money in even though I'll have to call if he does shove.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JoeHaw

why its better to shove myself instead of trying to get to showdown without getting more money in even though I'll have to call if he does shove.

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That's a good question. Bluff or bluff-catcher? I doubt it matters too much here because he shouldn't have any bluffs in his range, or be willing to fold anything, at this point in the hand, except maybe AKo one spade and there's only 4 of those.

The question is, are you ahead of at least 25% of the hands he has here? If not, then you could muck (but you'd have to be really really sure).

I'd put him on a preflop range of AK and QQ+, possibly JJ, probably not TT or AQs.

you're way behind
1 AKss
6 AA
6 JJ if he has those, let's call it 3

you're getting freerolled by
1 pair of black kings

you're way ahead of
6 QQ
3 AKo no spades, let's call it 1 since he probably folds some otf

you're well ahead of
4 AKo one spade

So it looks good. You're beating 6 up to 11 combos, and you're beat by 10 maybe 13 combos.

Since he probably bets all his monsters and checks his 12 out draws, I'd prefer shoving here just to charge those draws.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by couriermike

Since he probably bets all his monsters and checks his 12 out draws, I'd prefer shoving here just to charge those draws.

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ahhh thats what i needed to hear. for some reason i was thinking just because i was behind his WHOLE range that if possible i should try and avoid putting money in the pot. I think this is kind of similar to that "test" thread.\

EDIT: and trust me, I believe you guys, but why is it better to 4bet KK? I take it I'll make more from stacking off with my slight edge against his range than just playing (oop, to be fair) against the range that I crush? That would make sense to me, especially since I don't end up getting stacks in later in the hand against more than JJ+ normally anyways, and I only get the Cbet from broadway combos. just want to clarify.

4b pre is ok-ish assuming that even if he realizes that your range is KK+ that he will still call and not get away from tp, overpiars on the flop.

By c/raising the flop you're turning his whole range into bluffcatchers. Lead or c/c, lead turn... pretty much anything is better than c/r... except for c/f I guess.