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ugh but slevin you shouldve been around ftr long enough to know all of what jason stated....he just spelled it out i guess. neways the point is start "somewhere" set a goal for X buyins to win before moving up and X buyins for moving down. X buyins can vary from person to person but just stick to what that X is.
LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by Robb
come on Slev, please don't leave us hangin like thatQuote:
Originally Posted by LuckySlevin
ha... well, here was my thinking on it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shotglass
Dunning–Kruger effect which I had never heard of before seems very interesting. It encompasses the well known pitfall that all *good* players are taught to avoid and that is over complicating their strategy by x level thinking. He thinks I think etc... Also at a simpler level it can be as simple as thinking - he has bet like this, he would never do that with xyz range (because that would be stupid) - so therefore I give him credit for cyx range - when in fact you are only doing this because you ascribe him the same thinking capabilities as yourself - the article refers to this when it states :But with poker I think it's more than simply a lowering of confidence, it's a lowering of your actual ability (as it would be a prime example of not adjusting properly to your opponents) - which I thought was interesting.Quote:
"Actual competence may weaken self-confidence, as competent individuals may falsely assume that others have an equivalent understanding"
The deeper and wider realisation I had when reading this was how this effect relates to the idea that we each literally create our own reality every day. Not in some mumbo jumbo mystical way, but in very real and pragmatic terms. Eastern spiritualists have for centuries realised the floor in dualistic thinking (that there is me and I am seperate from everything outside of me). The truth is we are not seperate from other people or things - it is only the bifurcating nature of our minds that give us this illusion.
There are so many consequnces to this delusion, the delusion that what we 'see' is the absolute truth of reality. By simply shifting where we focus our attention we can see completely different things (that never existed to us before) - by changing our values, we can change the content of our world, what we once perceived white we might now perceive as black. This is only possible because our minds discriminite the perfect oneness of being into limited concepts of the mind, concepts which are no closer to *the reality* of the situation, than a three of spades is :3s: to a ten of clubs :tc:.
Descartes famous quip:
- I think, therefore I amQuote:
Cogito Ergo Sum
Expresses this falacy completely, for the more enlightened would argue that far from being our thinking...Thinking, or every day consciousness (i.e. that we are seperate entities and exist independently of our world) is the problem that needs to be overcome. Yet it cannot be overcome by thinking, for if reason is the problem, you can not solve it by reason.
The point that we can never truly know what exists but only continually refine our understanding of what is there to improve our lives puts a huge amount of responsibility on us to build the lives we deserve by ensuring we tailor our perceptions, thoughts, and consequent actions, to create the world we want to live in.
I found it interesting how this Dunning-Kruger effect seems to embody this idea. You take a situation (i.e. a headsup game of poker, to keep it simple, with two players of relative abilities). Yet both players will see completely different situations. The lesser player due to his ignorance will perceive a simplicity that doesn't exist to a stronger opponent, yet exists to him/her, and this will affect the way he/she behaves. Whereas the better player due to his/her deeper understanding of the complexities at play will also see a completely different situation, he/she will react differently as a result (e.g. by giving villian too much credit, or by realising that short term wins do not form good evidence of future success) - the key though is that both are looking at exactly the same situation and getting two very different relative renderings of that situation - they are literally in different worlds.
They will perceive the situation differently, they will act different as a result, and they will generate different outcomes as a result.
This seems like a great microcosm of the world at large. It is something to this day that inspires me to ensure the world I see and create every day is the world I want to live in (there's the old dualistic thinking creeping back in already) . I have glimpsed brief periods where my thinking has collapsed and I feel a oneness with everything I had previously perceived to be outside of myself. But it's always fleeting. This effect reminded me of this and that's what I thought interesting! :-)
I think you've taken too much lsd
lol i wished i wasn't such a wuss i'd love to take halucinogenic drugs but im too scarred =(
you should try it at least once!Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckySlevin
Worked for Walt Disney although I think it was more than once!Quote:
Originally Posted by Muzzard
Hey everyone! Hope you're poker's going well and life in general is. Royal wedding this weekend over here in the UK. Whole of London is slowly grinding to a halt. I'm not really a royalist so don't see what all the hype is about... but I know from watching the news some people have spent thousands of pounds getting over here to watch it... I think it's crazy in this day and age that royalty is still revered in this way but anyway... back to poker.
My poker has been on hold recently following some discussions I had with Keith after his pm to me earlier, as mentioned in my blog. Keith offered me a staking deal which meant I would be playing under a stake starting at 2nl and grinding it up to 50nl. Throughout I will be sharing profits with staker but in return I have advantage of coaching all the way up to 50nl from a number of different people that are already proven winners.
This was a great deal for me, as I think it will finally be what I need to get me beating this game. Already from watching some videos that Keith directed me to (and I have watched tonnes of videos before...) - I learnt quite a fair bit.
I've thrown my old game out (as told to do so by person in video) and am rebuilding it from scratch specfically to crush 2nl. Once I'm moving out of 2nl I'll tweak it moving onwards for 5nl, 10nl, etc.
One of the people coaching is the person that made that video series and the others are all winners in their games, Keith has put details up in the staking thread. http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...nt-187020.html
So things are looking good on the poker front for me at the moment. Live will be recreational whenever I play and completely seperate to my main poker pursuit now which will be grinding this bankroll up all the way to 50nl. Will post random updates here from time to time, and will be posting biggest losing/winning hands from each session over in the staking thread :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by d0zerhow dare you potentially deprive us of an awesome PM exchange.Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith_MM
air your entertaining grievances in public sir!
well i guess you can now deduce what the PM was about ....and black friday made things difficult to say the least getting this organized.
GL, Slev. PLEASE follow the rulls that were posted in your staking forum and the advice of your coaches. I think you'll learn a lot.
I doubt I'll be the only one watching with interest.
To the coaches: I agree with Muzz's comments in the stake thread, but GL to all.
GL Slevin, Rungood!!!!
Thanks for the support guys really appreciate it, got off to a good start, first session showed a profit, I'm going to do my best to get the volume in and play well now this is up and running.
Just found this. Slevin, you're incorrigible. You remind me of a guy named Casey Serin. Is there any chance you drink wheatgrass juice?
But gl on the grind, sir. I think you'll find the road to manies shorter if you take the longer but paved road these fine people are providing you rather than the "shortcut" through the mountains you seem to have been hellbent on taking in the past.
Hey Benny!!! Thanks
Yes I totally agree. For too long I've been beating that ever winding path that led in a whirling circuitous motion back to it's origin time and time again... I not only have the basic style and propper bankroll management now, I have some really dedicated people helping me. Keith spent 3 hours helping me yesterday. I'm also getting some great reviews on my hands I'm playing.
I have everything I could hope for to improve. I'm lucky, and need to just put the work in now, stop tilting, and concentrate on grinding and i'll finally be moving closer to my goals of being a decent winning poker player :clap::-D:cool:
First...if you busto, I wanna take your spot. You're very fortunate. I have a small roll on a new site and am playing 4NL (lowest level available) since PS went busto. I'd be glad to start over at 2NL for the coaching opportunity. On PS, I was ready to move up to 25NL with $760 BR.Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckySlevin
i'm not going to busto mr, sorry :rolleyes:
inb4 side betsQuote:
Originally Posted by LuckySlevin
I'll take action on that as long as I can pay with UB rolls. :)
That's like paying with HD DVD players.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shotglass
Sup everyone, hope you're all playing well and enjoying life etc.
It's been a long old 3 weeks here and there's pluses and minuses.
[+] I don't think I've ever stayed playing one stake this long before in my life
[+] thanks to bonuses ($20) so far, I am almost breakeven
[-] spewing off 10bi's at start of a month has a big effect on bottom line
[-] I'm realising how hard it is to play poker when you play it as you should
- i.e... 200nl seems a very long waaaay away
http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/5492/graphl.jpg
I've got a cruise ship as my wallpaper it's motivating me to keep grinding, but I work full time, get up at 6.20am get in at 7pm, so it's hard to fit many hands in in the week. My plan was to be on it in a year on my poker profits but we'll see, will need to pick up the pace if that's going to be the case.
So plan for rest of month is play well and move on up above the $0 mark.
Good work Slev. Keep it up, listen to your coaches and you'll get there.
Thanks mate
respect, good work sticking to the plan Slev!
Thanks Vi!
poker going well, break even with bonuses so far over 20k hands which is definate improvement! Not only do I still have same bankroll I had a month ago but it's practically (give or take 3bi's) the same as it was before I started.
I've spent last couple of days studying, because I hadn't mastered the style I was given to crush 2nl, and am going to be starting back within next day or two.
Had interesting conversation with a poker player today who plays small stakes, he said key is adjustments and instinctive play. At any stake. I'm looking forward when I start to play winning poker 'instinctively'.
I've been changing my sleeping patterns lately, it started accidentally and now it's purposeful :) - I need to be up at 6.10am to give me 20 minutes to wake up and half hour to get ready before I leave to go to work. The other day I set alarm for 5 which meant I had an hour to stay in bed semi awake. I reccomend it! doesn't feel like half a chore getting up when you've been lying about for an hour :)
Have started listening more and more to Eckharte Tolle lately, he's a great spiritual teacher, if anyone hasn't read "The Power of Now" I really reccomend it.
It's funny how you can listen to something / read something and only understand what you're ready to understand. I'd always recognised the whole concept of your life is what you make of it etc because of the concepts and values you hold etc - but it was only re listening to this that I realised the connection between this and quantum physics. Tolle mentions the whole physical effect of observer/observed, that you can't observe something without effecting it. I remember this now as the Heisenberg (sp?) Uncertainty Principle - and it's interesting that i'm seeing the link between the physical phenomena now and life in general.
The link that he makes is to use the same principle in light of how we view our world. Our level of consciousness / unconsciousness has a direct effect on the world we see when we exist in the world.
Going to try to be present today at work and throughout today as much as possible, and away from cycles of conditioned thinking. I'll let you know how it goes when I next post!
Hope you're all having a good week, bank holiday here next week (national holiday) - so that's something to look forward to! :-)
the second line also explains/applies to the first line.Considering that Gary blew 25$ right at the start in a nights tilted madness and he's spewed lots of money trying to bluff 2nl'ers he could easily have moved up by now. Its encouraging that we seem to be on top of the tilted spewing which has regularly been the cause of past OP's failing and hopefully Gary realises that only because he was rolled for the level he's playing that he had the ability to come back from that initial craziness. In the past that would have been a busto post.Even moreso because he's not mentioned here but he got rivered quad over quads with staks in and it didn't seem to affect his play for the rest of that session.Before I think that would have resulted in a big tilt spew session.Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckySlevin
Now he just has to implement the style that hes been told to play , rather than his interpretation of it. Once that happens I'm expecting an upwards graph.
It sounds as if you've made some significant progress.:highfive:
It's great to read that your roll is still intact after a month. I'm looking forward to watching you climb the stakes.
I'm also glad to hear that the tilting has gotten under some form of control, but I am a bit concerned about this statement:
The key to this statement is "play winning poker." Which is exploiting your opponents tendancies (playing instinctively) while still keeping a solid foundation in winning theory.Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckySlevin
Had interesting conversation with a poker player today who plays small stakes, he said key is adjustments and instinctive play. At any stake. I'm looking forward when I start to play winning poker 'instinctively'.
From what I've read of this and the last few ops it seems that, in addition to poor bankroll management, one of the common denominators leading to the inevitable failure was a desire to 'play instinctively' without a solid foundation or emotional control. I hope that this comment isn't a sign of an impending return to your previous state of mind which, imo, lead to the spew sessions . Instead, that you are actually beginning to get your emotions and thought processes under some sort control and will maintain that long enough to build an EXTREMELY strong foundation which will hopefully take you to the nosebleeds, if that's where you wish to go.
GL to all.
Oh, yeah: quads over quads...man that is sick
keep up the good work
ok so i've come to say hello to all my poker friends, hello poker friends. It's friday night and im studying. been going over my strategy lately feeling good about it but it's hard work. To really absorb information I have to go over it many times, and it's not easy when you want to be playing, but ... you get what you put into this game of ours.
A relative passed away this weekend, I hadn't seen him for a long time, but I have memories from when I was younger, and it's sad in the house this weekend. It's times like these that make you realise how much you need to go for what you want out of life. And just get real. Because whereever we go afterwards (who knows?) - one thing is for sure, our time here is short and we need to make the most of it.
It also makes you appreciate small things in life like air, and time. I'm not drinking anymore. It won't be the first time I've decided to go t-total, but I just feel like I'm probabally going to stick to it this time, well at least for a few years anyway.
I have a long weekend now not back to work until Wednesday so it's lots of study and then i'm hitting the tables. I feel about as confident as I've felt before with my game, guess time will tell if it's well placed confidence!
have a good weekend everyone and run good
Poker going well, almost there with the basic strategy to beat 2nl now, the fact it's taken me a month to get there goes to show how bad my original game was! Mostly based around never giving anyone any credit, and being a liberal get my stack in merchant~!
Just finished a 2 hour sweat with keith. One of the things we covered was sizing to get stacks in. Shortly after this hand came up, one which i'm pretty pleased with in terms of bet sizing so I thought I'd put it here for prosperity :-)
Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $0.02(BB) Replayer
SB ($5.31)
Hero ($2.03)
UTG ($2.01)
UTG+1 ($3.22)
UTG+2 ($2.36)
MP1 ($1.40)
MP2 ($5.25)
CO ($1.71)
BTN ($1.94)
Dealt to Hero Q:club: 3:spade:
fold, fold, fold, MP1 calls $0.02, fold, fold, fold, SB calls $0.01, Hero checks
FLOP ($0.06) A:spade: 3:diamond: Q:diamond:
SB checks, Hero bets $0.04, MP1 raises to $0.08, SB folds, Hero raises to $0.30, MP1 calls $0.22
TURN ($0.66) A:spade: 3:diamond: Q:diamond: 3:heart:
Hero bets $0.35, MP1 calls $0.35
RIVER ($1.36) A:spade: 3:diamond: Q:diamond: 3:heart: 5:club:
Hero bets $0.73, MP1 calls $0.73 (AI)
Hero shows Q:club: 3:spade:
(Pre 37%, Flop 70.9%, Turn 95.5%)
MP1 shows A:diamond: 6:club:
(Pre 63%, Flop 29.1%, Turn 4.5%)
Hero wins $2.64
^^ nh sir. and nice progress in your poker game, too, by the sounds of things.
nice work slevin, keep er up!!
Thanks rpm and fulsky! :)
+2bi's today so a good day, really getting my head around some of the post flop situations I used to struggle with lately which is great :)
I have tomorrow booked off work, been in all weekend playing so think i'll take a break tomorrow, I'm thinking of going into Birmingham it's only about 1.5 hours from London. Checking out the city for the day.
Yeah think that's the plan now. Just need to find my music player now and get it on charge!
I'm already feeling more prosperousQuote:
Originally Posted by LuckySlevin
note to self - stop drinking!
(cliffs was I got arrested for being drunk :() live and learn I guess!
Congrats on sticking to a BRM plan.
On another note, it sounds like maybe you should keep up the plan to go dry. Anyway, run good.
this thread has got to be a wind-up....
I've had a pretty unhealthy relationship with alochol for a while 'bout time I grew up and out of it if you ask me. Went to the poker room this evening final tabled a 20 rebuy but got bubbled. Think i'm going to stick to my online poker for now at least for the next few months. I definately could do with finding some healthy hobbies, I think I might try to get into reading again. I went into bookshop on way home today but couldn't find anything that appealed. I might download napoleon hill think and grow rich, see if I can pick up some financial wisdom that'll put me on the road to riches because i am very poor with my financial management off of the tables.
If you're getting arrested for being drunk, I think you have more serious problems to sort out than your poker game. I mean we all want to see you improve and all, but sometimes the very foundations of your lifestyle have to be solid before you can hope to be successful in anything.
yes this is true, I used to drink far too much, lately i tamed it right back but still have the occasional blip, I could do with just going completely t-total really.
Poker's going well at 2nl, since I went back to drawing board and reapplied myself, only play 4/5 of last ten days but going pretty well: - :)
http://i53.tinypic.com/2ip36e.jpg
struggling a tad with motivation today, played about 8 hours but have been up and down a little. Br currently at $79, and about an hour or two from releasing next $10 bonus.
mini challenge:
- play for 6 hours, play well, report progress at end of 6 hours.
- Include: P/L, total hands, ALL in EV, and session graph!
gogo
decided to end session early, as Im getting tilted, this was last hand I played
Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $0.02(BB) Replayer
SB ($2.69)
BB ($1)
UTG ($2.07)
UTG+1 ($1.88)
UTG+2 ($0.91)
MP1 ($2.02)
MP2 ($5.84)
MP3 ($7.23)
Hero ($2.78)
BTN ($2.17)
Dealt to Hero 2:heart: 2:diamond:
fold, UTG+1 calls $0.02, fold, fold, fold, MP3 calls $0.02, Hero calls $0.02, fold, fold, BB checks
FLOP ($0.09) 9:diamond: 8:club: 8:diamond:
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP3 checks, Hero checks
TURN ($0.09) 9:diamond: 8:club: 8:diamond: 2:club:
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP3 bets $0.04, Hero raises to $0.21, BB folds, UTG+1 folds, MP3 calls $0.17
RIVER ($0.51) 9:diamond: 8:club: 8:diamond: 2:club: J:heart:
MP3 bets $0.22, Hero raises to $2.55 (AI), MP3 calls $2.33
MP3 shows 9:heart: 8:heart:
(Pre 52%, Flop 99.9%, Turn 97.7%)
Hero shows 2:heart: 2:diamond:
(Pre 48%, Flop 0.1%, Turn 2.3%)
MP3 wins $5.24
+2.5bi's in a little over 2 hours so I shouldn't complain!
You forgot to think what he had.
thanks bj yeah tbh my assumption is that play is so bad here they are stacking off with an 8 but not sure, i def need to refine that thinking as I start to move up i think.
here is a hand im pretty pleased with :)
what a difference a day makes, wake up in the morning play for 2 hours and grab a buy in.
This staking deal i'm in is the best thing that's happened to my game, for the first time in my poker playing I have real confidence I can beat a stake, even if it is 2nl, in the past no matter what short term success I have had I always was a bit fearful of it all going pear shaped after a couple of losing sessions.
I don't get that anymore I'm consistently outplaying my opponents at 2nl and it feels great! :)
Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $0.02(BB) IPoker
SB ($2.24)
BB ($1.92)
UTG ($1.95)
UTG+1 ($2.27)
UTG+2 ($0.77)
MP1 ($3.52)
Hero ($2.10)
CO ($1.03)
BTN ($0.53)
UTG+2 posts $0.02
UTG+2 posts $0.01
Dealt to Hero 6:club: 6:heart:
UTG calls $0.02, fold, UTG+2 checks, fold, Hero raises to $0.06, fold, fold, fold, fold, UTG raises to $0.12, fold, Hero calls $0.06
FLOP ($0.30) 2:spade: 6:spade: 6:diamond:
UTG bets $0.15, Hero raises to $0.40, UTG calls $0.25
TURN ($1.10) 2:spade: 6:spade: 6:diamond: Q:spade:
UTG checks, Hero bets $0.50, UTG calls $0.50
RIVER ($2.10) 2:spade: 6:spade: 6:diamond: Q:spade: A:diamond:
UTG checks, Hero bets $0.93, UTG calls $0.93 (AI)
Hero shows 6:club: 6:heart:
(Pre 20%, Flop 99.9%, Turn 100.0%)
UTG shows K:club: K:diamond:
(Pre 80%, Flop 0.1%, Turn 0.0%)
Hero wins $3.70
I was saying to Keith yesterday how daunting it is to think how much I've still got to learn before I'll even be beating 10nl most likely consisently etc. But it's so nice to feel i'm finally holding my own at a limit. Keith said concentrate on beating the opponents in front of you and the rest will come, which sounds like great advice!
I don't know how you guys do it that consistently beat the micros and small stakes, but one step at a time I guess! :)
since I took a 4 day break to relearn what I was told to learn and applied myself it's been going well. Just endured a 2k break even stretch (give or take 50bb's) which I know most of your stakes probabally isn't that much but at 2nl it's kinda painful.
Anyway here is last ten days play since restarting, I think we're finally there. Even more so now I know I can keep playing well (even if only probabally at 80% of my game due to getting a bit frustrated) and still win over 2k hands of running mostly below ev :)
http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/6198/graphi.jpg
I just showed a family member and they said I'd probabally find more than $2 a day if I went out looking in the streets, lol. Also said they're happy to double my earnings and pay me $4 a day to work for them. Also if they'd just played 2,000 hands and earnt $1 they'd throw the computer out the window. LOL. These comments did make me laugh. Just got to keep ploughing on haven't you when you're starting out.
I said the difference is in a year or two's time, if I went out looking for spare change every day I wouldn't be living a lifestyle of freedom and wealth off my poker growth which I should be in a year or two of this.
I think this is why there will always be fish. When you're starting out, it is counter intuitive to be content with such small sums but this has been the whole issue with every losing player that was still losing after 3 years of reading forums I'm sure. They see people making lots of money and enjoying the freedom that brings, and don't appreciate the work that went in to get to that point.
Roll on 2012!
Slevin, it looks like you're making progress, which is awesome. Keep in mind you have a long way to go and 10k hands isn't very much.
great thread though.
thanks baudib good advice, going to try to take 1 step at a time for sure
First milestone reached! Past the $120 mark with the bankroll now ($128.53).
About to move up to 4nl. I've learnt alot technically but there's still been the odd spew which I'm keen to cut out. But the main thing is I've worked hard, grinded at 2nl consistently and as a result am now ready to move up.
My goals going forward for 4nl are to
[ ] Work on understanding best lines post flop, I have alot of work to do here.
[ ] Make sure I stay to full ring and leave tables when they break.
[ ] Make sure I don't 'over adjust' to loose players and stack off too lightly.
Really looking forward to next chapter in my poker now, never had a bankroll before and built it at one stake following a plan and then moved up to another, it feels pretty cool. I also had a chat with Keith recently and he pointed out now that I'll likely never need to deposit again because no matter what happens I'll always be able to rebuild my roll from the stake below the stake I lose if I stick to brm, and I can now beat 2nl which is the lowest stake. So I'm feeling very good about it!
2nl - 4nl took me 38,000 hands. :)
[/QUOTE]2nl - WTF??? took 3000 handsQuote:
Originally Posted by LuckySlevin
WT??? -partially implementing what you were told to do and run at breakeven - 17000 hands
implementing what you were told to do and moving up - 18000 hands
or some more insights from your bankroll reporting
june 4th - BR $79
june 8th - BR $128 (including a 12$ spew session in between)
you've moaned all through about how long it was taking to move up, but look how quickly it could have been achieved if you had just studied what we told you at the start and implemented it. When you did you zoomed through the stake.
from your coaching thread today
I've told you before to stop thinking like this as its putting pressure on yourself. Learn ,improve and play and if you do enough learning and improving you will find out what level you can achieve. It may be higher it may just be recreational but by keeping these thoughts and saying them is detracting from your current game. Its fine to have ambition, but focus on today , rather than trying to get to a far off destination tomorrow.Quote:
I think of the first day I lost 10 bi's playing badly at 2nl, and more recently when I played shorthanded and lost 8 or so only to recover them the same day. I know that will not be happening again. I can't explain it but I feel closer to my goal of being a winner poker player earning decent money playing and everything seems to have more substance to it for me now with my poker, I know I've moved up once I can do it again, and all that will stop me is poor play.
The rest of what you said in that quote is true , you are learning, you are changing the way you think, but after the first spew session you said never again, then you had the wobble a couple of days ago.You have to realise when you aren't "right" and just quit playing for the day ( which you have been doing) rather than letting bad plays make you play even worse and spewing wildly.
This stake is just one part of my poker journey (albeit an important first step). I will eventually be playing 1knl, of that I'm certain! But I hear what you're saying 1 step at a time and it makes sense.
btw when have I complained about how long it was taking to move up?!!
---
Blog Update!
Didn't play today but played first 4nl session yesterday and it went great plus 3bi's - so looks like i've broke the back of 4nl, and am ready to start grinding out some results :)
no. you just had a winning session. i could have a winning session at 1knl. it wouldn't mean that i wouldn't get an absolute brutalising from the player pool there if i put in any volume. i'm not saying you aren't +EV at 4nl. i actually believe you currently are (and would be up to probably 10 or even 25nl if you didn't tilt). just sayin. one session does not mean shit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckySlevin
^^ def thisQuote:
Originally Posted by rpm
Slev, as pleased as I am to see your progress through 2nl the bolded part of your quote worries the hell out of me. This is dangerously close to the mentality that you've shown in the past. Please remember that tilt isn't just an angry spew session. Any time that you are not playing the "A" game that keith and others have taught you to play, including from overconfidence, you are on tilt and headed for a train wreck.
I still wish you the best of luck and how about an update!
SLev, update??
thanks for comments guys
hey Fulsky, still grinding away. Still learning to beat 2nl.
It's discipline mostly (ldo). I'm getting there. But it's a slow old process.
i'm 9bi's down over 41k hands, but well up thanks to rakeback. I've decided with Keith I'm not moving up until I have 25bi's profit at each stake (because rakeback alone meant I could move up at 2nl). I will get there. I have a winning strategy now I just have to consistently implement it.
Check this out, the mouth at his best, I hadn't seen this before but if you have sure it will be a nice reminder!
YouTube - ‪matusow blows up on sheikhan‬‏
Good job , glad to hear your so dedicated learning the game and moving up when you actually feel your ready. I'm kinda in the same boat trying to learn cash and hopefully i can stay as dedicated as you've been to doing things the right way.
GL 'm sure you'll be crushing soon.
lol at matusow.
lol brilliant
Someone needs to change the title of that staking thread to, "LuckySlevin doesn't learn bankroll management"
Is that really Slev, or are there two people like that?Quote:
Originally Posted by lolpwnt
well, gary blew the bankroll playing headsup poker between 2nl and 50nl last weekend outside the terms of the stake. He was going to pay me what he owed on thursday when he got paid. Still no sign of the money yet, but could take time to clear through his bank account and transfer to me.
I just hope that he isn't using it for his live roll.I hadn't said anything yet so that Gary could announce it however he wanted , but since it looks like he has released the news anyway just thought I'd clear it up.
Damn! :puke:
Hope you get repaid.
Wow, lucky, you sure do remind me of me starting a poker. I was like, fixed to one limit I was grinding, but every now or then I wanted to have some "poker fun", underrolled. So I made occasional excursion trips to have fun: omaha, various tourneys, HU matches. And when I lost some cash there "poker fun" was no longer "poker fun" but "hmg wtf I gotta bring my money back", and then it turned out into a "loss chase" and ofcourse busted bankroll.
The thing I learned: don't touch your fucking MAIN GAME bankroll!!!
Or lets say it in prettier words: For each type of game you want to play and you are not specialized into, you need to have another bankroll, for example: 25BI for NL25 FR holdem, 50BI for 2$ HU tourney matches, 25BI for PL10 6max omaha. So even if I suck in HU or Omaha, I will at least suck within my bankroll limits.
Its kinda like life, you cannot have types of fun you aren't properly rolled for. For example I cannot afford myself a classy hookers because then I wouldn't have any money for food each month.
^^^gotta love weed :D
It's not like we couldn't see it possibly ending up this way, but sick nonetheless. I do hope LuckySlevin repays the stake so that this can end without hard feelings.Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith
It's one thing to do this to himself, but another to do this on a stake. It's a real fucking douchbag thing to do Gary and the worst thing you could have done to fellow FTR'rs if this is true.
yes. it's really slevinsQuote:
Originally Posted by Shotglass
Now, at least he knows for a fact that, even with coaching, he can't beat the lowest level of online poker or live poker. So, now he can put his poker fantasies aside and move on with his life. I hope he never plays again. Oh, my bad, I should say that I don't give a fuck what he does. I just hope he doesn't start another OP.
To all you degens that enjoyed this train wreck, call me a hater. Whatev.
In Gary's defence , he could beat 2nl , he broke even at 2nl FR over the whole stake after tilting away 14BI right at the start of the stake.If he could have stopped bluffing his stack away,stopped open shoving junk , he would easily have crushed 2nl.
From what I read it sounded as if he had some real improvement in his game and that his biggest downfall was his self control.
From that thread:
So he has barely enough money to cover living costs because he's either spent it on alcohol or lost it playing poker. LuckySlevin, if you're reading this, as I posted earlier in this thread, it sounds like you need to stabilise your life before you even go near a poker table.Quote:
to be honest once all my expenses were paid out this month I had more like 1 bi. e.g. I have a cpl of pretty esential outgoings i didn't factor in which add up to about £200. Having said that if I can do ok live, I know it'll be life transforming for me. I'm sick of having no money for 3 weeks of every month which is pretty much how i've lived my life for as long as I can remember. Most of my money has gone into poker online. Either that or in bars, I've cut the bars out completely now and am concentrating on my poker. I want to get to the stage where I've got money in my pocket all the time and don't have to worry about finding some cash to go on holiday now and again. Simple goals really. That's the starting goal, the secondary major goal is financial freedom to travel the world playing poker and meeting new people - but one step at a time...
I don't know how much this will help, but here is a risk-of-ruin calculator, the results of which should be sobering:
ev++ Poker Tools :: Risk of ruin and bankroll calculator
If you have 3 BI for your live game, type in 3 in the bankroll field. Enter a good winrate, say, 10BB/100 hands. Enter a typical standard deviation - try like 80 BB/100. With the above you get a risk of ruin of about 40%. If your winrate is half that, your risk of ruin jumps to 60% - that means a solid winning player with a 5bb/100 winrate is going more likely to go broke with a 3BI bankroll than not.
My suggestion to you would be to look into reforming your life entirely. Go out there and get a real job, so that you can pay your living costs. You can pick up where you left off with 2NL and continue to learn the game, and to learn emotional discipline.
The thing is the worst thing ever for slevin would be if he gets exactly what he wants...to finally hit the run of rungood and bink a roll. Eventually he'll tilt it off and lose it all but by then he'll have quit his job and be living well outside his means
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwiMark
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by lolpwnt
I wonder how this slipped my eye.Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckySlevin
You are trying to discipline yourself? For a self-discipline, you need to be quite a character. And if you are a character you wouldn't need any discipline after all. We people are born that way, with lacks, flaws, a hint of discipline, or lack of it. And the thing is, turning discipline on or off is quite a big switch, but nearly impossible to find it by yourself.
So you gotta realize, no bankroll management can help you, nor any advice you read on this forum since your problem lies one step below. Why bother having a bankroll if you got no discipline to manage it? Why listen to advice if you got no discipline to follow it?
What you need boy is a drill sergeant, one that will knock you a tooth for every time you slip up and go doing things serge told you not to. Now, dunno how its in England, but in my country a new tooth costs around 100-200$, so it looks to me like some EV- move to fuck up.
But seriously now, without spewing my smartass jokes all over, before hiring a coach that is willing to come to your place and bash your skull into a keyboard when you slip up, you might wanna try to enlist in an army, or something fancy, like Xe (Blackwater). Or try some martial arts training sessions, full contact ofcourse, but make sure before buying in that your trainer has that special rabid-animal/killer look in his eyes.
Oh and i have really witty for the end: if CHANGING TACTICS didn't work, try BRUTE FORCE! :mrgreen:
YouTube - ‪Full Metal Jacket Clip‬‏
it sucks that slevin crashed and burned. although we all knew there was a decent possibility of this happening, it did seem he was making some inroads into his discipline problems, inflated sense of accomplishment and/or ego, lack of poker skills etc. at least we now know his problems are far bigger than their manifestations at the poker table, and a group of members of this forum gave up their time to genuinely try to help him overcome these - with no success. i just hope the terms of the staking agreement (whatever they are/were - the specificities are none of my business) are honoured.
Seems he's busto again as he's gone awol from the 2p2 thread.
Maybe this thread should be retitled slevin Fucks over his internet friends.
that's his usual modus operandi, he'll be back for sure when he thinks the dust has settledQuote:
Originally Posted by DanAronG
I think his next OP will definitely be a success.
yeah, he's due!
law of averages on his side
an update concerning the only thing that is "due"
june 26th
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Originally Posted by LuckySlevin
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Originally Posted by keith
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Originally Posted by LuckySlevin
June 27thQuote:
Originally Posted by keith
july 1stQuote:
Originally Posted by LuckySlevin
July 3rdQuote:
Originally Posted by keith
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Originally Posted by LuckySlevin
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Originally Posted by keith
july 4thQuote:
Originally Posted by keith
july 5thQuote:
Originally Posted by keith
15th JulyQuote:
Originally Posted by LuckySlevin
emailed gary with
18th July emailed to another email address of hisQuote:
Have you got the card yet? its been 10 days now since you said it would be 7-10 days.
Quote:
Have you got the card yet?
1st August, heard nothing so emailed gary againQuote:
Sent: July 18th, 2011, 10:11 pm
From: LuckySlevin
To: keith
Keith,
I just wanted to apologise for delay getting you the bankroll from your stake back. I've had a tough month this end, and it's taking me a bit longer than I'd have hoped to reimburse your stake. If you can bear with me another couple of weeks I'll be able to pay you back.
I get paid on the last working day of the month, and I will be transferring the money to you that same night.
Sorry to mess you about like this. Thanks for the confidence to stake me in the first place. It wasn't misplaced. I will definately pay you back in two weeks.
his replyQuote:
by my reckoning you should have sent the money on Friday.Whats happening?.Quote:
I get paid on the last working day of the month, and I will be transferring the money to you that same night
Quote:
hi keith, still have some cashflow issues here. Mostly down to poker - and fact i've also left my job. I'm not ignoring you - I will pay you back soon, sorry its taking a while.
Keith, you're a smart guy, how did you not see this happening?
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by DanAronG
prolly one of the dumbest ideas ever
:facepalm:Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckySlevin
we knew he could blow the roll hence all the penalties to deter him from doing it.Didn't expect him having actually blown the roll to then have the choice of paying back what he owed or going gambling with the money in London casino's and for him to choose the gambling. Also planned on the affiliate income to offset the original stake money risk with 4 times as much going to us as gary until the first milestone payment was made. As it turned out boyles cocked up and gary got first deposit bonus so we got a smaller share as garys bonus got deducted from rake revenue and we got a percentage of that net rake.If it had happened as it was planned , the stake money would have just about been covered by our share of the rake.As it is we're about 20$ down .
and before Gary tries to claim that we haven't lost much therefore , the affiliate income was intended to help pay for the time we spent coaching him , reviewing hands etc.
oh yeah , forgot to mention that gary was also happy to blow 44$ on merge between the 8th and 19th of july when he was having difficulty paying us.
BoxYouUp Poker Player Ranking and Stats at merge
think i woulda rather lit $x on fire. woulda been more entertaining
I thought this was pretty entertaining.
We could ALL see this coming but I respect Keith and the other coaches for giving dumbass a chance. Dumbass had an opportunity to succeed in poker, thanks to Keith. The ground rules were solid. It was just a flawed plan due to thinking that the dumbass zebra could change his stripes, lol. I don't know how FTR bans are implemented, but dumbass zebra bitch should be banned from FTR, imo.
So anybody taking action on whether Keith & co. get paid?
I here slevin is offering 200 to 1 that he pays out and 500 to 1 on that he's never heard of again.
I don't think the plan was flawed, we built in safeguards for the eventuality that he went bust. And if he was going to bust the roll i'm far happier that it was only $120 than $2500. But even in the $2500 scenario the milestone payments would at least have reduced our exposure. Also as Dan pointed out way earlier in the thread , he had a job , and disposable income so had the means to be able to repay any losses.
We just over estimated how much his reputation here was worth to him.Obviously not $120 .We also didn't expect him to lie so frequently either. Prime examples being through the quotes where he initially said it was 90$ that he lost , then that the bankroll that he had been reporting included the 15$ that he said he'd pay back into the roll, that the 15$ was really 18$ etc. His biggest losses always includes hands like folding jacks to 3bet /bet shoves for a small loss yet didn't include a lot of the really horrible plays like calling 3bets without set mining odds out of position with small pairs and stacking off unimproved. Then again hardly surprising from a gambler to lie to us as well as himself..
It was also enlightening to find out his 2+2 sn. looking through his posts found him looking for staking and showing 60000 hands at 2nl for profit and saying he only had a small sample. nothing about the fact that he regularly goes busto.
Seeking staking + coaching deal on ipoker or Merge - Staking -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums
As for whether we get paid , who knows , I've kept quiet expecting him to pay us. Its now looking like he either doesn't want to pay or can't pay.
This is why I told you I didn't want to be a part of this at the time Keith. I do think it's pretty admirable though that you were willing to put so much into trying to help someone that clearly needs a load of help, but there are certain people in this world who are completely unhelpable. You have to be able to help yourself ultimately, that's what this whole deal was about. You weren't making things automatically better for slevin, you were giving him a great chance to help himself and to make things better.
Some people are self destructive by nature and noone can do shit for them. I think you've handled the whole thing really well and I hope you see your money again. It could actually have been worse - imagine he'd ran really good and moved up a few levels then got everyone's hopes up before bustoing everything away!
Can't imagine how many people here play micro's and would have loved this opportunity. Not so much the BR stake, but the coaching and mentoring opportunity is invaluable at these stakes to get your head out of your ass and make it into and through the SSNL's with ease.
That was my first thought when I read about this deal in the first place, that it's pretty bitter that an opportunity like this is going to the person who has proven himself least likely to benefit from it.Quote:
Originally Posted by jyms
i've offered u so many times and u always busy =(Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwiMark
anyway , some light entertainment
Hey everyone - Page 2
I'd take a deal that included your mentoring any day of the week.Quote:
Originally Posted by bikes
sure sounds like slevin? how do you know for sure?Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith
Seeking staking + coaching deal on ipoker or Merge - Staking -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums
gives a merge sn of boxyouup
googled that and got
Black Chip Poker (Merge): Free membership and up to 45% Rakeback! Our Best Deal!!!! - Page 33
then looked at his other posts
Too much time on your hands.....?Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith