Bigred's Video Game Thread

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Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer

Did they have magazines too?

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Electronic Gaming Monthly was a thing back then. So, yes.

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Whatever it's cost, you'd be GAMBLING for your memory card. The Nile is also a river in Egypt.

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No you wouldn't. You'd be spending an average amount per transaction, and receiving an item from a population of items that have an average value equal to what you spent. Again...baseball cardzzzz!!!

The google definition of gambling is to "take risky action in the hope of a desired result". There is nothing "risky" about buying something. Just because it might not be what you want, doesn't mean it's gambling. There's no risk. You can't LOSE.

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It wasn't thrown into my face.

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Aggressive advertising offends you? Crybaby

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My progression was not hampered because I lacked it.

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Was your progress enhanced because you had it? That's probably the way to describe it. "hampered" just isn't apt in this situation. That's just a word you're using cause you're a crybaby.

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It was not cut out from the game prior top release just to be readded as paid content later

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If it's cut out before release, then it's cut out before you buy it. Nothing was *taken* from you. Only a crybaby would feel that he's owed something he was never entitled to in the first place.

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They were upfront about it back then

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Do they need to be now? Clearly you're already quite well informed, so I'm not really sure what all this crybaby stuff is about.

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It did not cost more than the game itself.

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But they still sold it to kids right? Funny....that one doesn't make your list of gripe-comparisons to the 'good old days'.

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Exactly, but one which wants to manipulate you into dumping all your money into it, for no reason other than to keep playing with the toy. Don't throw in money, the toy becomes tough; throw in money, the toy becomes easy. The amounts of money are not children's candy prices either

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Tough or easy are questions of personal preference. Cheap or expensive are relative terms as well. So it sounds like a person should be able to determine a level of investment and level of difficulty that best suits them. You seem to be saying that everyone should want it cheap and easy, and that the game-makers should be required to provide it the way you personally enjoy. Crybaby stuff dude.

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An audience that doesn't KNOW what they are doing, banana. There is massive a difference.

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Do you know anyone in this audience? Is this REALLY a widespread problem? Anecdotes don't count. If this was really something that was happening, then the gaming industry would be losing customers left and right. An industry scaring off its own clientele is stupid, but still not illegal, or even immoral. It's just hopelessly stupid, which is why I simply don't believe that a double-digit billion dollar industry is actually doing this.

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Ever heard of the frog in the boiling pot metaphor?

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Well no one is being cooked to death, so it's a little bit of an extreme comparison. If someone gets into gaming and accepts that the culture includes loot boxes, so what? Why does someone need to be enlightened on "the good old days" in order to decide whether not they can enjoy the current gaming culture. And as I've pointed out extensively, "the good old days" weren't as good as you think they were.

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The money you lose at them is very real. Thank you for slowly arriving at some sense

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I'm sorry....I need some help here. How do you "lose money" at these things. You get something every time you pay for something right? Do you ever pay money just to have the screen flash "you lose, here's nothing, better luck next time"

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Another false equivalency. Great.

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you're only claiming that it's a false equivalency because the cards are tangible and have some value in perpetuity. I completely deny that logic because it is OBVIOUS that something can have value, and be consumed. Food is an excellent example. I ate lunch today. It's fucking worthless to you. I can't touch it anymore. I can't sell it to anyone. But I got everything I needed and expected from it. So it was worth the money I paid for it.

Baseball cards don't "do" anything. Video games actively provide entertainment. Just because the value of the card stays with the card, and the value of a video game is specific to the player, doesn't mean that one is gambling and one isn't. It's just a different way to consume value.

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Say it upfront and if I want I'll pay. Why the dishonesty? Why the bullshit?

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It's my understanding that the game isn't even out yet. And yet, you already know this. So I'm not sure why you're complaining about people not saying things "upfront". Exactly how were you deceived into a purchase decision if you're so well informed prior to release?

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Why the insistence that gambling isn't gambling?

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Cuz it aint. There's no 'risk'.

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Why the SAAS while insisting I pay for entry as well?

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This is just you bitching about high prices. Crybaby.

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You can collect them? Which means they have actual, intrinsic value right?

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Dude, stop this. Value can exist many different ways. Collectibles and Consumables are different. Sorry if that offends you, but you really need to get over it.

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You play mobile games. I don't, because I despise the "free" mobile game accepted monetization practices

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LOL, ok then. How about you just make that a policy for ALL games, not just mobile. From now on, your rule will be "I don't play games I don't like". Then just go with that. Why try to force YOUR preferences onto the entire industry? Obviously, not everyone "despises" it the way you do.

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I would not want for full price console games to become like "free" mobile games, because, again, I PAID TO FUCKING PLAY IT IN THE FIRST PLACE.

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Obviously you didn't pay enough!! The people who make the game decide what you need to pay to have a certain experience. If you want that experience, you pay. You don't get to set your own price. You don't get to pay less and then demand maximum value! If people are willing to pay for the maximum experience, then there is a market there and there is no compelling reason to interfere with commerce. If some poor people get left out....so what. Video games are not a right!

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Throw in there the fact that I do not wants kids gambling

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Right....throw that in, cuz without it your argument is just a bunch of selfish belly-aching.

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Ever heard of multiplayer? PVP? That damned activision patent I just showed you? Why, oh enlightened banana, do you think the focus is so much on multiplayer battles nowadays? Combat prioritization, fuck story. Why do you think this is?

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So this really is just about jealousy. You can't compete against the folks willing to spend more, so you whine about it. C'mon dude.

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There isn't. They just make any progress impossible. Here, a spreadsheet for you as an example
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...dhQ/edit#gid=0

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What is this? More belly-aching about how long and hard it is to get what you want??

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Kids, gambling.

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OMG give this up dude. Kids dont' have credit cards. And this really isn't any different than them buying pokemon cards.

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People with gambling tendencies being exposed to gambling while others swearing up and down it isn't gambling.

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Stop it. It's not the video game industry's problem to protect people from themselves. Haven't we had this conversation before? Violent video games didn't cause Columbine, and lootboxes aren't going to exacerbate gambling problems.

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People who want to just play single player games with certain monopolized ips.

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The box says right on it if it's a single player game or not.

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People who buy the games expecting to play the game hitting grindwalls and paywalls.

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Not a new thing dude.

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I will stop when they stop targeting these games at kids.

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Star Wars is a 40 year old franchise, you know that right?

LOL, troll.

I'm done feeding the troll, as I wrote above

Definitely not trolling. Everything I posted was sincere.

And now correct me if I'm wrong, but your position can be summed up like this....

"The practice is wrong because it exposes children to gambling"

Do I have that right? You don't want gambling marketed to kids, right?

Yet you have no problem with a game whose object is to murder your opponent, being marketed to kids. Shoot your opponent dead with a gun kids, but don't touch slot machines.

Aren't you a little embarrassed at the irony of that?

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Originally Posted by Banana

Definitely not trolling. Everything I posted was sincere.

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Of course. Yet first line you claim somehow EGM == Nintendo Power.

Nintendo Power was first party. EGM was just a fucking magazine that covered gaming. How the fuck did they have anything to do with Konami is beyond me.

And then you go on strawmanning and throwing more false equivalencies around, and yet claim to be serious.

You cannot be this dense. Of course you are trolling

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Originally Posted by Banana

And now correct me if I'm wrong, but your position can be summed up like this....

"The practice is wrong because it exposes children to gambling"

Do I have that right? You don't want gambling marketed to kids, right?

Yet you have no problem with a game whose object is to murder your opponent, being marketed to kids. Shoot your opponent dead with a gun kids, but don't touch slot machines.

Aren't you a little embarrassed at the irony of that?

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This small thing, in the actual case of battlefront.

http://www.esrb.org/ratings/Synopsis...Battlefront+2+

And also this small thing, in regards to NFS Payback

http://www.esrb.org/ratings/Synopsis...Need+For+Speed

And this one, with more blood and killing

http://www.esrb.org/ratings/Synopsis...d+Theft+Auto+V

Do you spot a difference?




Fun fact: none of these games tell prospective buyers upfront about having micropayments nor lootboxes. Like opening a cracker jack box.


I will leave it up to you to guess which has which.



P.S.

Kids, gambling


Now I'm truly done.

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TEEN
Content is generally suitable for ages 13 and up. May contain violence, suggestive themes, crude humor, minimal blood, simulated gambling and/or infrequent use of strong language.

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So it is right there on the box then.....

Where's the deception?

The ESRB says gambling is ok to show to 13 year olds. Maybe your beef is with them and not EA?

LOL

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2017/...ope-nope-nope/

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Originally Posted by Banana

So it is right there on the box then.....

Where's the deception?

The ESRB says gambling is ok to show to 13 year olds. Maybe your beef is with them and not EA?

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Finally you are starting to make sense. That is the current pricess.

I thought you said it wasn't gambling?

*Process


Editing is more work now that the front end is broken

A higher level non-troll discussion about where we are now and where we are going.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7I5DUDHbASQ

I was at gamestop over the weekend. Gave strong consideration to buying a PS4.

Then I thought...what games would I get?

I like Grand Theft Auto. They have #5. But wait...I already have #5 for PS3 at home. They have Call of Duty, I like Call of Duty. Though....I have played like...nine other call of duties in the last five years, and they were all pretty much the fucking same. Destiny 2 seems popular. Wait a minute...don't I have Destiny 1 at home, and barely played it? Yeah, I do.

There's a God of War game....hmmm looks like more of the same button mashing from the last 4 games....which I already have.

Dragon Age, DarkSiders, Final Fantasy, Killzone, Metal Gear, Gran Tourismo, Resident Evil, Ratchet & Clank, open world Batman games, and Lego [name any mildly popular franchise]....

I've played ALL of these games many many many times already.

IS THERE ANYTHING NEW??

Buy a PC?

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Originally Posted by Savy

Buy a PC?

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I went down that road a little bit in the early 00's. Too much worrying if each game is compatible with my graphics card. Too much installing and downloading of patches. Drivers....blech. I just wanna put the disc in and play. If it's even a little bit of work to make the game operate....then fuck it, I'm out

Plus, isn't it just another medium for the same old shitty games?

Which installment of Quake are they on now?

I get most of my games on Steam now. No discs, no going to the store and works reasonably well. About 1/8 games has a problem running on it, but not clear how much of that is my pc and how much is steam, and in any case there's usually a fix.

Disregarding the fact that it's a pretty shitty time for buying a PC - DDR3&4 being twice the price they've been 6 months ago and graphics cards also getting more expensive because of crypto currency, it's really hard to justify a console once you've invested in a decent PC. I have everything hooked up to my PC. My stereo, the TV, all my instruments - midi keyboard, guitar, bass are always hooked up to my soundcard and run through amp sims and virtual instruments. I have a couple of xbox controllers on the couch table that I can use to control pretty much everything with through Controller Companion ($4 on steam)
You really don't need to worry about compatibility. Every game runs with every graphics card as long as it's from the past 8 years. I have a 970 and I run all the games that matter at 200fps/medium graphics. You can get away with a gtx 770 you're still comfortably above the specs of "next gen" consoles.
There are maybe 3 games a year that are console exclusive that I miss out on, but they're not worth the price of a console that's just going to sit there doing nothing most of the time.

If I were to build a gaming pc for a console price point right now it would be: 4460+mainboard+ram ~$150, gtx970 ~$150, seasonic 450w ~30, 250gig ssd: $80, plus a case from a dumpster - all used ldo. If you shop around you can probably get this for closer to $300 and it's going to annihilate a ps4.

"My stereo, the TV, all my instruments - midi keyboard, guitar, bass are always hooked up to my soundcard and run through amp sims and virtual instruments."
:drool:
oskar confirmed cool

Was that not abundantly obvious already...

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Originally Posted by BananaStand

I was at gamestop over the weekend. Gave strong consideration to buying a PS4.

Then I thought...what games would I get?

I like Grand Theft Auto. They have #5. But wait...I already have #5 for PS3 at home. They have Call of Duty, I like Call of Duty. Though....I have played like...nine other call of duties in the last five years, and they were all pretty much the fucking same. Destiny 2 seems popular. Wait a minute...don't I have Destiny 1 at home, and barely played it? Yeah, I do.

There's a God of War game....hmmm looks like more of the same button mashing from the last 4 games....which I already have.

Dragon Age, DarkSiders, Final Fantasy, Killzone, Metal Gear, Gran Tourismo, Resident Evil, Ratchet & Clank, open world Batman games, and Lego [name any mildly popular franchise]....

I've played ALL of these games many many many times already.

IS THERE ANYTHING NEW??

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Horizon Zero Dawn, Bloodborne, The Last Guardian are all new IPs and exclusive to PS4. Uncharted 4 is also very very good but you'll probably hate it because it has a 4 in the title

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Originally Posted by oskar

Disregarding the fact that it's a pretty shitty time for buying a PC - DDR3&4 being twice the price they've been 6 months ago and graphics cards also getting more expensive because of crypto currency, it's really hard to justify a console once you've invested in a decent PC. I have everything hooked up to my PC. My stereo, the TV, all my instruments - midi keyboard, guitar, bass are always hooked up to my soundcard and run through amp sims and virtual instruments. I have a couple of xbox controllers on the couch table that I can use to control pretty much everything with through Controller Companion ($4 on steam)
You really don't need to worry about compatibility. Every game runs with every graphics card as long as it's from the past 8 years. I have a 970 and I run all the games that matter at 200fps/medium graphics. You can get away with a gtx 770 you're still comfortably above the specs of "next gen" consoles.
There are maybe 3 games a year that are console exclusive that I miss out on, but they're not worth the price of a console that's just going to sit there doing nothing most of the time.

If I were to build a gaming pc for a console price point right now it would be: 4460+mainboard+ram ~$150, gtx970 ~$150, seasonic 450w ~30, 250gig ssd: $80, plus a case from a dumpster - all used ldo. If you shop around you can probably get this for closer to $300 and it's going to annihilate a ps4.

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Yeah it's rough going if you need a GPU or ram right now.

PC is my main gaming rig but I also have a PS4, xbone and a switch and all of them do get used (I have two teenage boys in the house as well) so I'm very fortunate not to miss out on any exclusives

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Originally Posted by Luco

Horizon Zero Dawn, Bloodborne, The Last Guardian are all new IPs and exclusive to PS4.

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Are they good?

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Originally Posted by Luco

Uncharted 4 is also very very good but you'll probably hate it because it has a 4 in the title

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I have at least 1 and 2. Maybe 3. Is 4 worth investing in a new console?

Also, I'm being sincere when I say I really don't know how many of these games I already have. This is kind of the problem. I have nearly 100 PS3 games that I either haven't played, or don't really remember playing. So I'm wondering if buying a PS4 and the new call of duty game will be significantly more enjoyable than than just re-playing the 5 call of duties that I already have.

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Originally Posted by oskar

My stereo, the TV, all my instruments - midi keyboard, guitar, bass are always hooked up to my soundcard and run through amp sims and virtual instruments. I have a couple of xbox controllers on the couch table that I can use to control pretty much everything with through Controller Companion

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Not many women coming through your place, huh?

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Originally Posted by BananaStand

Are they good?

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Horizon - would have been an easy GOTY 2017 if it didn't come out 3 days before zelda
Bloodborne - won several GOTY awards in 2015
Last guardian - picked up a few GOTY nominations, not as good as the other two but still fun

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Originally Posted by BananaStand

I have at least 1 and 2. Maybe 3. Is 4 worth investing in a new console?

Also, I'm being sincere when I say I really don't know how many of these games I already have. This is kind of the problem. I have nearly 100 PS3 games that I either haven't played, or don't really remember playing. So I'm wondering if buying a PS4 and the new call of duty game will be significantly more enjoyable than than just re-playing the 5 call of duties that I already have.

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I still think uncharted 2 is the best of them all, but I very much enjoyed 3&4 and 4 is better than 3 imo

For opinions on call of duty you'd have to ask my eldest, he's the big COD fan in our house

@ Oscar "Was that not abundantly obvious already... "

I had my suspicions, but now I'm certain, is all.
:)

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Not many women coming through your place, huh?

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[something, something] your mom

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Originally Posted by oskar

[something, something] your mom[/FONT][/COLOR]

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Your mom cums whilst at my place.

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Originally Posted by BananaStand

Also, I'm being sincere when I say I really don't know how many of these games I already have. This is kind of the problem. I have nearly 100 PS3 games that I either haven't played, or don't really remember playing. So I'm wondering if buying a PS4 and the new call of duty game will be significantly more enjoyable than than just re-playing the 5 call of duties that I already have.

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Maybe you just aren't that into gaming anymore? Buying the latest shit may give you the excitement back for a little bit but it's not the problem.

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Originally Posted by Savy

Maybe you just aren't that into gaming anymore? Buying the latest shit may give you the excitement back for a little bit but it's not the problem.

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That's what I was thinking. Though there are some games that just 'addict' me and I'll play non-stop for a couple weeks, then I'll stop playing for months. Like a binge-addiction. I just don't wanna binge on the same old shit anymore. And a lot of the latest games are really just more polished versions of the same old shit.

So I dug through my PS3 collection over the weekend looking for something to play. I had purchased, but not yet played, Borderlands. I recall it being popular and well reviewed, so I started playing.

I hate this fucking game.

Not gonna get into a review here, let's just say I'm never playing it again. So I went and searched for reviews to try and find out why it was so popular. All the reviews said the same thing. "Not for everyone. This is a 'loot collecting' game that's only fun if you play online"

What the fuck is a "loot collecting game"?

I know what all those words mean, but I can't see how a literal interpretation of that phrase could be anything resembling fun. I guess I'm old fashioned, but video games should be about saving the world. Who the hell gets excited about opening a box and finding a BX9C Repeater Pistol to replace your QR-72 Revolver? Sure, stat boosts are cool for about five seconds. But all they do is help you slog through a whole bunch of boring shit a little bit faster.

Is that what video games are about these days? Are they intentionally shitty? Do they do that so they can reward your play by making the game end sooner?

I'm right on the verge of buying a PS4. I have my eye on a few titles but I would like to know what I'm getting into.

I prefer single player games where I save the world. I realize I can't resist playing online games forever, so I'm willing to dabble. But I'm not paying extra for money for shit after I've already bought the game. And I don't wanna get my ass handed to me all the time either.

Here are some games I'm considering. Will I hate any of these?

Overwatch
Final Fantasy 15
The Last of Us
BloodBorne
Witcher 3
Destiny 2
Horizon: Zero Dawn
Metal Gear
And I'll probably try and catch up on any God of War, resident Evil, and Uncharted games that I've missed

What else should be on that list?

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Originally Posted by BananaStand

Here are some games I'm considering. Will I hate any of these?

Overwatch
Final Fantasy 15
The Last of Us
BloodBorne
Witcher 3
Destiny 2
Horizon: Zero Dawn
Metal Gear
And I'll probably try and catch up on any God of War, resident Evil, and Uncharted games that I've missed

What else should be on that list?

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If you never got the last of us on PS3 then definitely pick it up for PS4!

Overwatch is a fantastic game but it's a long way away from 'single player save the world'

Bloodborne, witcher 3, horizon and uncharted 4 will all appeal to you for sure. Can't comment on the latest uncharted (lost legacy) as I haven't picked it up yet

What exactly is Overwatch all about? It looks fun as fuck.

I'm playing Darksiders 2 as part of my effort to milk every last drop of value from my PS3. I was one of the suckers that bought it around launch time and paid $600 for a 60GB machine.

Anyway, I'm slogging through this dungeon and I go into a room, kill all the demons or whatever are in there, and I'm rewarded with a treasure chest containing a new piece of armor. My current armor boosts defense by +21. This new armor has boost of +24. Equipped.

I move to the next room and see a treasure chest on the other side. The path is obstructed. So I scale a wall, hop across two platforms, swing from a beam, and boom, I drop down Ninja style in front of the chest. Open it up....New armor!! +26.

Now can someone please tell me what is fun about a "loot collecting game"?????????

I mean, that first armor upgrade was totally pointless. I didn't encounter an enemy at all before I found something better. A better upgrade was literally in the very next room. There was absolutely nothing nearby that had any capability to attack me.

Apparently I'm just supposed to think it's fun to have an extra piece of armor listed in some tiny-print inventory screen.

Hooray!

It used to be that you had to fight your balls off through an entire area, and win an epic boss fight before you got anything at all. Then you got the mega-buster sword of ages or whatever and it felt like a real reward. It was insanely satisfying to take it into battle and unleash this awesome new power.

Now we're just collecting junk and calling it fun?

Are all games like this now?

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Are all games like this now?

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Both of those games are 5+ year old you donkey.
Borderlands was heavily advertised as a loot-n-shoot game. The big draw of Borderlands 2 was: more loot. This is a common theme for you. You pick a very specific thing and then you complain about the core nature of that thing. If you don't like loot I can't think of a less fitting game than Borderlands for you to pick.

Overwatch is really fun. I don't know if I could recommend it on console. The community is a bit more salty than is fitting for a game this casual, but it's not the worst community ever either.

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Originally Posted by oskar

Both of those games are 5+ year old you donkey.

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So?

Games I played before those were good. These games, aren't. If you're telling me that games were bad for a while, begginning 5+ years ago, then fine. When did they stop being bad, and what time period of gaming should I avoid?

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Borderlands was heavily advertised as a loot-n-shoot game.

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I made the purchase long after the release. So I missed the ad. All I knew at the time was that it was a well reviewed shooting game. Call of Duty, Resistance, and Killzone are all well reviewed shooting games, and I like those. So....Borderlands.

Where did "loot and shoot" come from??? Obviously, I know what that means now. But when did it become a thing??

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The big draw of Borderlands 2 was: more loot

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And people bought it??? No one thought they would rather have more action, more interesting quests, or simply more fun??

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This is a common theme for you. You pick a very specific thing and then you complain about the core nature of that thing.

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So?

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If you don't like loot I can't think of a less fitting game than Borderlands for you to pick.

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Well luckily it wasn't a major investment. I'm sure I paid less than $10 for this.

My point isn't really about whether or not I like loot. I'm just not understanding why it's become a main driver of gameplay. I mean, I don't like relish, but I understand why some people do. I understand why relish companies are in business. I understand that there is a demand for that product.

But I'm curious as to why anyone is interested in a loot collecting game.

I have no idea why it's fun to pick up an item, and then try to navigate cumbersome menus to find out if it's actually better than your current item. I have no idea why it's fun to equip that item, use it for five seconds, and then find another item so you can go back to the menu and re-live that whole painful cycle over again.

And most importantly.....how common is this dynamic in games today?

BTW all the news showing up on my radar seems to suggest that EA is getting kicked in the balls as a consequence of the shit Jack has been complaining about.

Free markets > Gov't regulation

Yeah they might have gone too far in a few places. I didn't think the backlash would be that massive either. Usually there's a bit of crying, then there's some damage control and the company is better off for the free press, but this time it might really have backfired and that's great!

This apple is shit it tastes nothing like a banana.

Loot is there for character progression and reward. When you start a game you're meant to get constant upgrades as it wants to get you hooked and people like being given things. Then when you're more invested in the game the rewards can be more spaced out.

I think a lot of games are a bit too custom happy these days & a bit too open ended and it puts me off playing them.

At a certain point of loot overflow, I usually end up asking myself if I'm ignoring the RP part of the RPG and simply trying to hoard all the things. I have yet to come across a situation where I didn't enjoy the game a lot more when I decided to put some RP into the gaming.

I'm quite enjoying the Breath of the Wild approach to loot collection. Not going to spoil it too much, but the majority of armour is purchased from shops dotted around the map and upgrades for them don't come easy. Each armour set has a specific purpose so you'll be building a collection and frequently swapping to suit the situation.

Weapons are plentiful but they break after a certain number of uses and cannot be repaired. That high DPS sword / bow you just found is cool, but it's only going to get you through one or two big enemies before it's gone forever. I haven't felt encouraged to hoard either, I'm regularly using my best weapons and potions on tougher enemies as nothing I've found has been Too Awesome To Use.

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Originally Posted by Savy

I think a lot of games are a bit too custom happy these days & a bit too open ended and it puts me off playing them.

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^This

I can't tell you how many times I've booted a game and had this happen:
Me: So, what do I do?
Game: It's a deeply customizable open world
Me: Cool, but what do I do?
Game: You can do anything you want.
Me: I want to win
Game: Does not compute

Jack - how do you feel about the widespread unavailability of new non-pro PS4 consoles?

The only way you can buy one now is to get it bundled with a game. You either get Call of Duty WW2, or Star Wars Battle Front 2.

However, if you choose COD, your PS4 will be a camouflage colored eye-sore. Ironic right?

Assuming you like your living room decor to be different than an 8 year old's bedroom....you're forced to buy StarWars, and all of it's evil psychologically manipulative tactics.

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Originally Posted by BananaStand

However, if you choose COD, your PS4 will be a camouflage colored eye-sore.

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Wouldn't have thought you'd notice it.

I just bought myself a new laptop as I need one for work but made sure it's got a good enough gpu to run some basic games so I can play some cs and wow.

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Originally Posted by Banana

Jack - how do you feel about the widespread unavailability of new non-pro PS4 consoles?

The only way you can buy one now is to get it bundled with a game. You either get Call of Duty WW2, or Star Wars Battle Front 2.

However, if you choose COD, your PS4 will be a camouflage colored eye-sore. Ironic right?

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Really? How unavailable is it? I mean, I only do my shopping on amazon/ebay anyway, and I see plenty of PS4 slims/pros on there besides the SW BF2, COD ones.

If this is an issue I'm unaware of it at the moment.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Banana

Assuming you like your living room decor to be different than an 8 year old's bedroom....you're forced to buy StarWars, and all of it's evil psychologically manipulative tactics.

---

Yeah, I got the XB1S battlefield edition, and I think I played that game a grand total of 10 minutes. Not my kind of game. But I liked how the XBOX looked.

Don't have a PS4 though. Controller is too small for my hands. Plus, some asshole took my PSN id? Gamertag equivalent.

So I got that PS4....

I got Destiny 2, and three other games whose names I don't remember.

Holy shit Destiny 2 is a fun game. All I've done since Friday was eat, sleep, and play Destiny 2. I'm actually kind of ashamed of the way I've lived for the past 72 hours. My apartment looks like a frat house. Pizza boxes, weed stems, and what seems to be a permanent indentation on my couch.

We can talk about the dangers of video gaming if you want. But microtransactions seem to be least of my concerns.

Glad to hear you've found a great game to enjoy!

You're a professional. Housekeeping services are relatively cheap. You may be amazed at how far 20 bucks will go when you're paying someone to clean something you don't want to clean. I do this for kitchen appliances maybe 2 or 3 times a year and they'll usually dust the other rooms and clear out spiderwebs from the corners for a $5 tip.

It's well worth it in my eyes, because there are certain chores that I simply will not do, but still don't want them left undone.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey

Glad to hear you've found a great game to enjoy!

---

Sounds dubious

Quote:

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You're a professional.

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Still dubious

Quote:

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Housekeeping services are relatively cheap.

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I guess so

Quote:

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You may be amazed at how far 20 bucks will go when you're paying someone to clean something you don't want to clean.

---

We've gone beyond dubious here. Where are you finding these people? Do you have broke friends or relatives who are that desperate for $20?

Quote:

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I do this for kitchen appliances maybe 2 or 3 times a year and they'll usually dust the other rooms and clear out spiderwebs from the corners for a $5 tip.

---

There's no way you're describing a legit business here. What you're doing sounds pretty exploitative. you might wanna google something called "The Emancipation Proclamation"

Quote:

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It's well worth it in my eyes, because there are certain chores that I simply will not do, but still don't want them left undone.

---

Not gonna argue here. I live with 3 kids, so there's plenty of clutter to clean up. It's all I can do to keep up with that. Bathrooms, floors, and dark crevices are someone else's job.

I have a lady come every other weekend. She cleans my whole place for $90. I usually tip $15, and give her a full $200 at xmas time.

About Destiny

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58wm_oHYouw&t=321s

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer

About Destiny

---

Meh, I actually read that before I bought the game.

I don't see why it's even a problem. XP levels max out at level 20, and it's trivially easy to reach that point. In fact, I'm already there, so they can tinker with the ticker all they want, it doesn't affect me anymore.

So this is not a problem for you, Banana?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7kgNExNiO4
You are the absolute BEST customer in the world, Banana. The best. You are the Royal Flush of Customers

And here came the "fix"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6AQDtAJalY

Still not a problem for you I guess, Banana. You are the bona fide unelected Royal Flush of Customers after all

No, I'm not. I'm more like...a strong full house.

I won't pay real money to buy some cryptic in-game currency or whatever. My investment is capped at the $60 I paid.

Beyond that, I trust that they have a vested interest in keeping the game fun and compelling. If I'm unsatisfied with the amount of XP I'm getting, I'll stop playing. I really don't care if all the cards are on the table in terms of how I gain XP.

I'm down grading my customer status.... I'm now a ten-high flush customer.

I'm home sick today. Legitimately sick, not playing hookey. And Destiny 2 servers are down for maintenance. Fuck my fucking life.

So you literally love it that they make it harder, and then deceive you into thinking otherwise, to earn in-game XP. They literally lied to you about your earn rate. And then they doubled it. All in the name of in-game real-money purchases.

I have nothing more to say to you Banana. Enjoy your game.

Just bought this beauty

http://dro.ps/b/ErG0gpS/lhttp://dro.ps/b/ErG0gpS/l

https://i.imgur.com/BNiz2IJ.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer

So you literally love it that they make it harder, and then deceive you into thinking otherwise, to earn in-game XP. They literally lied to you about your earn rate. And then they doubled it. All in the name of in-game real-money purchases.

---

I didn't say I loved it. I said I don't care.

I gotta say though, this story really just amplifies my sentiments from the SWBF2 story. This is nothing more than whiny belly-aching by delusional people who are jealous and feel entitled to all the shiny shit that the rich kids have.

Your use of the phrase "make it harder" is extremely revealing of my point. Some in-game accomplishments took longer to complete than you would have expected had you painstakingly done the math (which you didn't). That's not a change in difficulty.

Also, "harder" is a relative term. Relative to what? Looks like the XP throttling has been in place since the beginning. So the game is as hard or easy as it's always been. It sold well, it got good reviews. People seem happy with the pace of play and frequency of accomplishments. So what's the problem?

You're miffed because they didn't reveal every nuance of the algorithms to you the player? GTFO.

The "fix" was to remove the throttling and increase the total XP required to advance. That sounds like a wash to me, or close enough. In other words, the pace of play and frequency of rewards is not materially changed. Which makes sense, because by all accounts, people were happy with it.

Except some whiny dick-bags thing that the "fix" should have been to just remove the throttling, and make the game "easier". They found what they believe to be a problem, and expect that is the only thing that should be fixed. They didn't whine, complain, and demand that the game be re-balanced to keep the game fun, so "fuck Bungie" for taking it upon themselves to do that. Pathetic.

In the scheme of things, I don't mind the XP throttling. It makes total sense to me that a game dependent upon a large, active, social community would implement measures designed to reward frequent or long-session players. That's just common sense customer service. Seems kinda far-fetched to accuse them of engaging in a dark conspiracy to generate more in-game sales.

I mean, marketing was invented a long time ago. There are lot of ways a company can convince you to buy something. Wasting people's time until they're annoyed enough to buy what they want seems like a terribly short-sighted and monumentally stupid tactic.

Do you know a lot of people that PAY to play games they are annoyed with? If the game is pissing you off, you can stop playing it. Who in their right mind would pay money, to advance faster through a game they don't like? If the game is fun, then grinding to the next level should be fun. If the game is not fun...THEN WHY DO YOU WANNA GET TO THE NEXT LEVEL?? Just turn it off!

Players who get pissed off enough to spend more money, but not pissed enough to stop playing seems like a really tiny niche market to me. And I gotta believe that game companies know that they would make a hell of a lot more just selling a good game a whole new customer.

This is truly odd. You do not understand an issue which now affects you directly, as you are now in the player base, and yet claim that you do. And then you try comparing pumpkins with brake fluid. And then you keep spouting more off about a related issue you apparently, again, don't understand.

Ignorance must be bliss. This would be even more laughable if it wasn't so sad.

Here is the gist, banana: you play a game. The screen says you just earned 1000xp. The bar says you just earned 1000xp. You play another 5 games, each telling you the exact same thing; you just earned 1000xp. The bar also telling you you just earned 1000xp. Yet you realize that it's not filling up at the same rate it did the first game you played. It is, however, still telling you you just gained 1000xp for that game you just played.

And then you do a double check, and your actual xp gains were as follows: 1000xp, 800xp, 600xp, 300xp, 100xp, 50xp. So, instead of having gone up +6 x +1000 = +6000xp for the games you have played as the game just told you, in reality you went up +1000 +800 +600 +300 +100 +50 = +2850xp. They straight up lied about your xp gains. Lies. Fake news. You confront the devs about this. The devs admits so. Are you happy playing this?

And then they fixed it. Now you do get +1000xp for every game you play. But all of a sudden, something that used to cost +80000, now costs +160000. Of course they never mentioned this in the patch notes. Are you still happy playing this?

I ...
I think I ... agree ... with banana
in this recent exchange.


what is going on, here?
I don't see what he misunderstood, Jack.

And his points are fine. We're big kids now. Game devs don't owe gamers anything.

I don't see who the victims are in all of this.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer

This is truly odd.

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You're telling me.....

Quote:

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You do not understand an issue which now affects you directly,

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Categorically false.

Quote:

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Here is the gist, banana: ......

---

My understanding, previous to this, was exactly as you have described it. You are equating my lack of outrage with a lack of understanding. Once again, I must emphasize, I fully understand what they did. I fully understand what the effects were. I fully understand the details of the remedy. And I fully understood all of these things, exactly as you have described them, before I purchased the game.

Quote:

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Are you happy playing this?

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Very

Quote:

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And then they fixed it. Now you do get +1000xp for every game you play. But all of a sudden, something that used to cost +80000, now costs +160000.

---

The volume of a commodity (XP) increased. As a result, the value of an individual unit of that commodity decreased. If you need this explained to you, try re-enrolling in the 9th grade. Or ask Wuf, I'm sure he can feed you a dozen paragraphs on how inflation works.

Quote:

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Are you still happy playing this?

---

Extremely.

Now you should sit down for this next part. Because this might come as a shock. Food companies put overly-conservative expiration dates on their products to encourage you to either consume food faster, or throw out good food before you need to so that you need to buy more sooner.

Are you still happy drinking milk?

Again Jack, I fully understand the problem. I fully understand what happened. I fully understand how it was fixed. I'm just not shocked, offended, or outraged about it.

Seems to me that your problem stems from an absurd and erroneous sense of entitlement. You seem to feel that you are owed some kind of return on the time that you invest in the game. What the fuck is that about man?? That was never the deal.

The deal was, you hand over $60, and the game provides you with hours of entertainment. That's it. End of transaction.

Now you're saying that needs to be extended? Why? For what? For who's benefit? Why are you owed something more for using something that you bought? What would the game developer be rewarding you for, exactly? What do they get out of you maximizing the replay value of their game?

I really don't get what this entitlement is all about. You bought a game because you wanted something fun to play. It is fun to play. The pace and frequency of rewards that the game currently uses, is fun to play. If you disagree, find a game with a pace and frequency that's right for you.

In conclusion, I fully understand the issue. What I don't understand, is the outrage.

I simply don't understand why anyone's idea of fun is being constantly praised and continuously fed rewards for mediocre accomplishments. I simply don't understand why someone would be personally offended at being denied that by a video game. I simply don't understand why someone would feel like they are owed that in the first place, merely in return for a completely value-less investment of leisure time.

The sick selfish sense of entitlement that is driving the "outrage" over this XP scandal is really grotesque to me.

It's just a fucking video game!

Just have fun and kwitchyerbitshen

tl/dr version

Jack has FOMO

This is what he misunderstands

Quote:

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Your use of the phrase "make it harder" is extremely revealing of my point. Some in-game accomplishments took longer to complete than you would have expected had you painstakingly done the math (which you didn't). That's not a change in difficulty.

Also, "harder" is a relative term. Relative to what? Looks like the XP throttling has been in place since the beginning. So the game is as hard or easy as it's always been. It sold well, it got good reviews. People seem happy with the pace of play and frequency of accomplishments. So what's the problem?

---

They lied. They straight up lied. Because this is what happened: Bungie mislead players about how much experience they were actually getting for repeated quests in the game. Players in the game suffered from drops in experience point (XP) gain depending on what modes they played and for how long... without any in-game notice.

Cliff's notes here: https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2017/...-in-destiny-2/

No one thought they were getting fleeced in this regard until someone bothered to check. The community "assumed" the counts were accurate. And they weren't. They were actively being misled by the developer. We are big boys and girls. Does that mean we have to accept being actively mislead/lied to in a product that you bought? I'd be very angry if instead of getting the chair I bought they sent me a picture of the chair with numbers on it. Framed. Sepia colored.

"Throttling" would mean I give you less XP and I tell you I give you less XP. Here, they gave less XP while telling you that you got the same amount as before. The less they gave varied for your activity, all the while they did not inform you of this at all. And the in game prompts would not tell you this; only way of knowing accurately how much you got for what was with a helper app.

And then people bothered to check, and then they figured this out, and then shit hit the fan. Devs apologizing, promising "fixes", silently increasing prices for in game items etc.

It's deceptive AF. I can't support a company while knowing full well they do this to me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by banana

The deal was, you hand over $60, and the game provides you with hours of entertainment. That's it. End of transaction.

---

LOL, games nowadays are being designed nowadays where after you handing over the $60 is just the beginning of the transaction history for that game

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by banana

Now you should sit down for this next part. Because this might come as a shock. Food companies put overly-conservative expiration dates on their products to encourage you to either consume food faster, or throw out good food before you need to so that you need to buy more sooner.

Are you still happy drinking milk?

---

Comparing pumpkins with brake fluid once again

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by banana

I simply don't understand why anyone's idea of fun is being constantly praised and continuously fed rewards for mediocre accomplishments. I simply don't understand why someone would be personally offended at being denied that by a video game. I simply don't understand why someone would feel like they are owed that in the first place, merely in return for a completely value-less investment of leisure time.

---

I see it has steered away from destiny 2 now, so we'll continue from there

If you buy something, I believe you are owed that something since you paid for it in good faith. This is why the consumer protections bureau is there, if I'm not mistaken. Is it too much to ask that the thing you buy has no shenanigans attached to it?

If you buy a movie ticket in a cinema, full price, would it be fair that they ask you to buy another full price ticket to see the last 30 minutes of said movie? If you want the sound in stereo, you have to pay another ticket? If you want consistent colors, you have to pay another ticket? The film was filmed in english, but they give you the german dubs unless you pay for another ticket? At what point does it get ridiculous? Or you can also do as I do, and not buy the fucking ticket in the first place if that is the deal that awaits you

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer

This is what he misunderstands

---

No, I totally get it.

Quote:

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They lied. They straight up lied.

---

Ok. You're not wrong. But no one got hurt. If you're gonna say "but progress was hindered" or something like that, I don't wanna hear it. The game doesn't owe you anything other than an enjoyable gaming experience. It delivered that. Anything beyond that is just bonus fun. You aren't entitled to anything. So you can't really claim a loss as a result of this deception.

Furthermore, the remedy proves that the game was already balanced in a way that delivered rewards and accomplishments at a pace and frequency that was appropriate.

Also, if you're really this outraged over a lie of this magnitude, then you probably shouldn't buy anything, ever. Enjoy life as a caveman.

Honestly dude, the fact that you so passionately covet something as trivial and practically worthless as XP, suggests that you're deluded and significantly disconnected from reality.

if you think your XP level matters.....you should get help.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer

If you buy a movie ticket in a cinema.....

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Don't ever give me any bullshit about strawmen again!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer

LOL, games nowadays are being designed nowadays where after you handing over the $60 is just the beginning of the transaction history for that game

---

Ugh, not this again. For the last time....this is not new. Video game companies have been making exploitative profits on add-on shit since the very instant video games were invented. How did they figure it out so fast??? Because every other company in every other industry had been doing it forever.

The versatility of modern consoles connected in a massive gaming network has incredible potential for delivering high quality entertainment experiences. It also presents opportunities for unique business models that may make some people uncomfortable. The degree to which you perceive these businesses to be sleazy depends on which aspects of gaming are most important to you.

In some cases, the business model is being fine tuned, and there are sure to be some bumps in the road. The recent star wars game is a good example. The business model was unappealing, and as a result the game got bad reviews and experienced poor sales. To me, that means justice was served. The market spoke, and the message was heard. overall the industry should evolve for the better because of it.

The LAST thing you want is for the government to get involved...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by banana

Don't ever give me any bullshit about strawmen again!

---

As I said above the paragraph you quoted,

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer

I see it has steered away from destiny 2 now, so we'll continue from there

---

And yet that analogy is spot on with AAA game industry practices du jour.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by banana

Ok. You're not wrong. But no one got hurt. If you're gonna say "but progress was hindered" or something like that, I don't wanna hear it. The game doesn't owe you anything other than an enjoyable gaming experience. It delivered that. Anything beyond that is just bonus fun. You aren't entitled to anything. So you can't really claim a loss as a result of this deception.

---

Sure you can. You are led to believe one thing, and yet get another. They lied to you.

And again, you are making a lot of fuss about XP etc. I still cannot believe you are this dense but you keep showing consistency in this regard. It's not about the XP level banana, it's about the lies, the deceipts, the conniving stunts in this damn game. And when the thing they are lying about is directly connected with in game purchases, it's not hard to connect the dots even for denser individuals.

As I have stated before banana

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer

I have nothing more to say to you Banana. Enjoy your game.

---

If you like getting screwed, who am I to tell you different? If you like it, buy it and play it. If you are indifferent to their shenanigans, it's on you. I for one will not be supporting this developer's shady behaviour with my money. I'll buy other games which have no such shitty behaviours, like GTA V or Cuphead.

GTA online for one is riddled with in game purchases, I have played this game for close to 4 years now without buying anything with real money. HOWEVER, there are no lootboxes in sight, and the game does not tell me I gained X for a particular in game activity and when I go to check I actually got 0.05X. So, at least, they are upfront about their shenanigans.

Cuphead doesn't have any of this shit. It's just a good game, period.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer

Sure you can. You are led to believe one thing, and yet get another. They lied to you.

---

Fine. They hid their manipulation, and it was dishonest. If you feel that impacts their credibility in a negative way, you are entitled to form your opinion and guide your purchasing decisions as you see fit.

Personally, I just don't see it as a big deal.

Quote:

---

And again, you are making a lot of fuss about XP etc. I still cannot believe you are this dense but you keep showing consistency in this regard. It's not about the XP level banana, it's about the lies, the deceipts, the conniving stunts in this damn game.

---

I can't believe this upsets you so much. The deception affects the game in the most minimal of ways. It's only a problem if it's your intention to grind short, low-difficulty tasks as a means to farm top-level rewards with the least amount of effort. In other words, it's only a problem if you're a deranged video-game addict who places real-world value on in-game accomplishments.

For anyone who enjoys the diversity and variety in the game, or seeks out the longest and most difficult challenges, the XP rewards are sufficient and satisfying.

Quote:

---

And when the thing they are lying about is directly connected with in game purchases, it's not hard to connect the dots even for denser individuals.

---

Red Herring.

This is like saying that because Russia and Trump both wanted to take down Hillary, then they must have been working together. Things can be mutually exclusive.

I flat out refuse any line of thinking that suggests game developers are trying to annoy players into making micro-purchases. There is most definitely a financial downside to making a game that people find annoying.

It seems totally plausible to me that a game dependent on an active and thriving online community might tweak the underlying mechanisms of the game so that frequent and long-session customers are rewarded more than a casual player, or one who simply seeks the most exploitative and self-indulgent path through the game's algorithms.

That certainly makes a lot more sense than an evil mastermind in a gray corporate tower conjuring up schemes and conspiracies to psychologically subjugate people into spending an extra $10

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Banana

I flat out refuse any line of thinking that suggests game developers are trying to annoy players into making micro-purchases.

---

Then there is no point in having any back and forths with you. You obviously have not been following the developments as of late.

GG Banana

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer

You obviously have not been following the developments as of late.

---

lol "of late"

You act like this hasn't been going on since the 80's

Also, if you have been following developments of late, you'll see that the market soundly rejected EA's attempt at exploitatively marketing microtransactions.

So I'm not even sure what you're worried about. Seems like things are under control.

As I said, as things evolve, there are going to be bumps in the road. The market knows what to do, so just relax. Your manufactured outrage and demands for intervention are really out of whack with the level of offenses that are occurring.

Two more things:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bananastand

There is most definitely a financial downside to making a game that people find annoying.

---

Sure. SWBF2 pulled out a similar shtick. Last I checked, the EA stock was down like 20% from previous high.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bananastand

It seems totally plausible to me that a game dependent on an active and thriving online community might tweak the underlying mechanisms of the game so that frequent and long-session customers are rewarded more than a casual player, or one who simply seeks the most exploitative and self-indulgent path through the game's algorithms.

---

Sure. And then lie about it so that people don't notice. And then when people notice, go "OMG OMG I'm sorry I'm sorry" and then double prices for everything. Classy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bananastand

the most exploitative and self-indulgent path

---

Mmmm, self-righteous, much? Why would you care how people play a game they paid money for?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bananastand

You act like this hasn't been going on since the 80's

---

Whatever you think I'm talking about is not the same thing as what I'm actually talking about.

The game industry shenanigans are definitely reaching a crescendo right now. 2017 has been the year of the loot box. Even this years Need For Speed has them. I can't remember playing a game in the 90's, 00's, nor early 10's with lootboxes in them. Nor microtransactions. So I definitely don't understand what your "since the 80's" quote alludes to.

Here, have a playlist to get you up to speed. Pick and choose whichever vids you want to see. Or don't. Ignorance is bliss after all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qfo1Bv91ws&list=PLo0IzmPMWjXI9ySw59c-Y-e8j-ebiJB6P

If you want to go the monkey see-no-evil etc route on this, then that's on you

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer

Why would you care how people play a game they paid money for?[/FONT][/COLOR]

---

Because a vocal minority succeeding in their demands for government intervention into video games would be catastrophic in my opinion.

If all you care about is getting the most stuff, the fastest, with the least amount of effort. That's on you. But don't demand some nanny-state policing to make sure no big bad video game company tries to steer you towards a more diverse style of play. Especially if that diversity in play feeds a rich online community on which the game is dependent.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer

So I definitely don't understand what your "since the 80's" quote alludes to.

---

We've been over this haven't we? Back then you could buy a game, play it, and have fun. Just like you can now. And now, you can spend additional money and have a richer, more immersive, or more personalized gaming experience. Just like you could then.

Want cheat codes? Subscribe to our magazine
Need help with the final boss? Call our game-master hotline for $2/minute
Nice console...wanna hook it up to your TV? Buy this cable for an extra $20
Wanna save your game? Memory cards cost $20

Add-on's are not a new marketing gimmick. Just cause they've found their way INTO your game, doesn't give you the right to cry foul.

Quote:

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If you want to go the monkey see-no-evil etc route on this, then that's on you

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"evil" is far too strong a word man. Try wearing less tinfoil

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer

Mmmm, self-righteous, much? Why would you care how people play a game they paid money for?

---

Back in my day, it was a badge of honor if you could beat Contra without using the code for 30 lives.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bananastand

Because a vocal minority succeeding in their demands for government intervention into video games would be catastrophic in my opinion.

If all you care about is getting the most stuff, the fastest, with the least amount of effort. That's on you. But don't demand some nanny-state policing to make sure no big bad video game company tries to steer you towards a more diverse style of play. Especially if that diversity in play feeds a rich online community on which the game is dependent.

---

The government intervention is for the lootboxes. It's a related (because the XP is used for bright engrams, which are essentially lootboxes) but very different thing. The crux of the argument is bungie/activision WILLFULLY AND INTENTIONALLY LIED about XP generation in their game.

See? Different things. They are related though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bananastand

We've been over this haven't we? Back then you could buy a game, play it, and have fun. Just like you can now. And now, you can spend additional money and have a richer, more immersive, or more personalized gaming experience. Just like you could then.

Want cheat codes? Subscribe to our magazine
Need help with the final boss? Call our game-master hotline for $2/minute
Nice console...wanna hook it up to your TV? Buy this cable for an extra $20
Wanna save your game? Memory cards cost $20

Add-on's are not a new marketing gimmick. Just cause they've found their way INTO your game, doesn't give you the right to cry foul.

---

Indeed we have. And you were wrong back then and you are still wrong now. Don't see anything different. I remember you stating something along the lines of EGM being a game publisher owned magazine, so buying a copy of an EGM would benefit the game publishers somehow. However, Nintendo Power was the only one AFAIK though.

I also wonder how buying an extra cable $20 benefits the game publishers.

You talk about add-ons. I'm talking about things stripped away from the base game and then resold as add-ons. Like for example a car, and then stripping their doors and calling it the base "Free Nature" car, and then you have to buy the doors back from the manufacturer (of course after market doors would never fit)

You just set up a games ecosystem at home and then you bought the game you wanted and then you played it. That was always the idea behind a console. Right now, the games are being released unfinished, in parts. Those parts are being sold to you as DLC. But whatever, it's just details, right?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bananastand

"evil" is far too strong a word man. Try wearing less tinfoil

---

Note the "etc"

I was alluding to the monkey see-no-evil hear-no-evil speak-no-evil attitude. But the game's actions are despicable in any case. That you do not want to see them like they are despite agreeing with me is your choice, and you can do as you wish with your money, as it's yours to spend however you like.

I spend mine supporting companies which make great products befitting my needs, like the limited edition AKracing chair I just bought. And the xbox one s I have, which is also limited edition, and is remarkably capable at video streaming AND plays older games so I could give away my 360 to my niece. And Cuphead, which is a great game without any microtransaction in sight. None of these companies have deceived me with the product I bought.

I will, however, never support a company that outright tries to lie and deceive me. Fuck them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bananastand

Back in my day, it was a badge of honor if you could beat Contra without using the code for 30 lives.

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A proper analogy to the Destiny2 situation would be Contra telling you that you started with 3 lives left, and this showing like so on screen, 3 lives left, but after dying the second time it would be game over as you only actually started with 1 live left, and you'd only be able to realize it after you died twice. The game actually cheated you on the lives you had left.

Of course, you'd be able to buy more lives by inserting a dollar here and there. A buck a life. Oh, and yes, you already bought this game at full price.

Would you feel good with that?

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Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer

The government intervention is for the lootboxes.

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Why? You hate those for the same reasons as you hate Destiny 2's XP cheat. Why not get the government to fix everything you don't like? Where would you like the government intervention to stop? What if an angry vocal minority gets the government to take away something you do like. How are you gonna get the toothpaste back in the tube?

Is underage gambling really big enough an epidemic that you're prepared to slide down that slippery slope of nanny-state meddling?

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The crux of the argument is bungie/activision WILLFULLY AND INTENTIONALLY LIED about XP generation in their game.

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no that's not the crux. It's true, there was a deception. It's fair to lose trust in the company. However, there are degrees of everything. And if this degree of deception is enough to knock you completely off the rails like this then life must be pretty miserable for you. I can't imagine that this unforgiving, zero-tolerance policy for mild white-lie shenanigans has won you many long-term friends.

The actual crux of the issue is WHY THEY LIED.

-Did they lie to purposefully drive increased microtransactions in order to greedily pad a profit margin that was already fair?
-Were development costs so high that they were denied a fair profit margin, and thus need to drive MicroTx sales to compensate?
-or did they just make a game who's enjoy-ability depends on a thriving community of active gamers. As such, it is in the community's interest to create mechanisms that encourage players to play longer, and have more diverse gameplay objectives.

It could be any of those. So until I see some EVIDENCE of the worst case scenario, I don't think it's fair to assume the worst case scenario.

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I remember you stating something along the lines of EGM being a game publisher owned magazine, so buying a copy of an EGM would benefit the game publishers somehow. However, Nintendo Power was the only one AFAIK though.

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You're misquoting me. But it's not important. It doesn't matter if we're talking about magazines or memory cards, just because they aren't published, produced, distributed, or sold by a the game-makers, doesn't mean that the game-makers aren't benefiting.

Consider the cinema. For the first two or three months that a movie is in theaters (which is effectively the entire time a movie is in theaters) almost 100% of the ticket revenue goes to the movie studio, and not the cinema. So how does the cinema stay in business? They charge you $8 for a small popcorn and another $6 for a medium soda. They sell you about 83 cents worth of food for fourteen dollars.

If the cinema could take a cut of the ticket sales, then the food would be cheaper. Gamestop doesn't make shit selling new products. They make huge margins on the add-ons. When you buy the add-ons, the exorbitant price you pay compensates for the store's lack of profit on the new game you just bought. The store isn't making profit on that because the game-maker kept it.

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I also wonder how buying an extra cable $20 benefits the game publishers.

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I just told you. If the store couldn't make an insane margin on that cable...they'd have to make money some other way. They're either gonna get the money from the game publisher, or from you. Games have been $60 for 30 years now, so it seems clear to me that the industry simply won't stand for a price increase. That just leaves the game publisher. But as long as you keep buying the add-ons, the publisher can keep their profits and the stores can still make money.

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You talk about add-ons. I'm talking about things stripped away from the base game and then resold as add-ons.

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What are you talking about? Are you saying that there are games out there that launched with certain features, and then those features were taken back with some kind of update later? Is that really a widespread problem?

Or are we talking about some pre-launch EXPECTATION that you had in your mind based on rumors, conjectures, and inferences from previews? If that's what we're talking about than fuck you. This is just a spoiled sense of entitlement that I just find repulsive. Buy the products with the features you like. Don't buy the products without those features.

If you say something on IGN six months before launch, and are disappointed that feature didn't make it into the final game, too bad so sad. Don't buy the game then. How the fuck does the world owe you something that was never on the market in the first place??

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Like for example a car, and then stripping their doors and calling it the base "Free Nature" car, and then you have to buy the doors back from the manufacturer (of course after market doors would never fit)

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If you bought a car with doors, and some repo men came by later and took the doors away, then you have a beef. But if you drove off the lot with no doors......that's a YOU problem.

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You just set up a games ecosystem at home and then you bought the game you wanted and then you played it. That was always the idea behind a console. Right now, the games are being released unfinished, in parts. Those parts are being sold to you as DLC. But whatever, it's just details, right?

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yeah, details I guess. Companies will sell products where there is a market for them. If there is a market for selling games piecemeal, why should a company be denied the chance to compete in that market? Just because you personally don't care for it, doesn't mean that it's time to call in the sheriff and outlaw the practice entirely.

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None of these companies have deceived me with the product I bought

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That you know of.

Question: Does it matter if they deceive you specifically? Or is any underhanded business practice enough to initiate a boycott from you? I mean, what if cuphead was made by nazis using stolen IP. Would you stop playing even though it's a good game?

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I will, however, never support a company that outright tries to lie and deceive me. Fuck them.

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lol....have you bought anything, ever? Then I think you might have broken your vow here.

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Originally Posted by Bananastand

Why? You hate those for the same reasons as you hate Destiny 2's XP cheat.

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If you say so. You apparently know why I hate one thing or another.

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Originally Posted by Bananastand

Why not get the government to fix everything you don't like? Where would you like the government intervention to stop? What if an angry vocal minority gets the government to take away something you do like. How are you gonna get the toothpaste back in the tube?

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The government exists for a few reasons, chief of which being protection of its citizens.

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Originally Posted by Bananastand

Is underage gambling really big enough an epidemic that you're prepared to slide down that slippery slope of nanny-state meddling?

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Have you been keeping up with the news?

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Originally Posted by Bananastand

no that's not the crux.

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Yes it is. I'm not going to tolerate a company which intentionally misleads me. Does that not warrant being snitched to the BBB?

Say you go to a restaurant and order a chicken sandwhich. Instead you get an iguana sandwhich. On your receipt, there is still chicken sandwhich. The waitress tells you "here you go, this is your chicken sandwich". I'm told they are virtually indistinguishable qua taste. Later, through test, you figure out that this restaurant has been serving iguana as chicken because it's cheaper meat hopin no one finds out. Would you not be angry as fuck, knowing that said restaurant WILLFULLY AND INTENTIONALLY LIED about said sandwich being chicken?

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Originally Posted by Bananastand

The actual crux of the issue is WHY THEY LIED.

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I don't care.

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Originally Posted by Bananastand

-Did they lie to purposefully drive increased microtransactions in order to greedily pad a profit margin that was already fair?

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I don't care.

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Originally Posted by Bananastand

-Were development costs so high that they were denied a fair profit margin, and thus need to drive MicroTx sales to compensate?

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I don't care. This is the part where I tell you "But have you seen their earnings call?" and then you'll rebut with "B'S A COMPANY THEY ARE IN THE BUSINESS OF MAKING MONEY HOWEVER THEY PLEASE IDC ABOUT FAIR THEY NEED TO MAKE THE MONIES" etc. I think we've done this dance before too.

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Originally Posted by Bananastand

-or did they just make a game who's enjoy-ability depends on a thriving community of active gamers. As such, it is in the community's interest to create mechanisms that encourage players to play longer, and have more diverse gameplay objectives.

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I don't care. How many gaming communites just like the one you describe do not exist, and all of these without having to have had to lie, deceive and con their customers in the name of money?

The point is that the company lied to me. Tried to, at least. Once caught with the hand in the proverbial cookie jar, it didn't even say it was a mistake nor anything. Just that "the system did not function as intended". Indicating that there WAS a system in place doing this, which only came to light after investigative digging.

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Originally Posted by Bananastand

It could be any of those. So until I see some EVIDENCE of the worst case scenario, I don't think it's fair to assume the worst case scenario.

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There is simply no blinder man than he who refuses to see.

Dude, seriously, you are the best customer ever. Of all time.

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Originally Posted by Bananastand

You're misquoting me. But it's not important. It doesn't matter if we're talking about magazines or memory cards, just because they aren't published, produced, distributed, or sold by a the game-makers, doesn't mean that the game-makers aren't benefiting.

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Here is me, "misquoting" you

https://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerf...11#post2280911

https://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerf...97#post2280897

This is the actual interaction, in context

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Originally Posted by Bananastand

Extra hardware, HD wires, magazine subscriptions, 900-numbers, memory cards......these were all revenue streams that gaming companies used to have, but don't anymore.

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Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer

LOL, those that made the games really did benefit from selling those magazines back in the day.

You are making less and less sense, but let's continue.

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Originally Posted by Bananastand

Dude....we didn't have the internet. Video games were not mainstream enough to be advertised in prime time. If you wanted to know what was up, you needed to read the magazines. The only reason I knew Final Fantasy existed is because of Nintendo Power. It made me want to buy the game. I did end up buying the game. So....yeah, game makers benefited ALOT from that shit.

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Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer

You do understand, I assume, that Nintendo is just one publisher which also happened to be the dominant console maker back in the day right? What about all of the other devs? Did they have magazines too?

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Originally Posted by Bananastand

Electronic Gaming Monthly was a thing back then. So, yes.

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Originally Posted by Bananastand

Definitely not trolling. Everything I posted was sincere.

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Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer

Of course. Yet first line you claim somehow EGM == Nintendo Power.

Nintendo Power was first party. EGM was just a fucking magazine that covered gaming. How the fuck did they have anything to do with Konami is beyond me.

And then you go on strawmanning and throwing more false equivalencies around, and yet claim to be serious.

You cannot be this dense. Of course you are trolling

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Originally Posted by Bananastand

... more nonsense, the classic $60 argument etc ...

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHSso2vufPM

Have you seen Take2's earnings call? Bear in mind they haven't released a fucking game in two years.

Claiming that companies have a tough time etc, as it's soo expensive making games nowadays, because why else would they require so much money. Have you seen EA's share price recently? Bear in mind that It was $15 in 2013. It was $120 prior to Star wars battlefront 2 release, november 2017. It's now at $105 after the backlash, and rebounding.

They can't make money right? They are having SUCH A TOUGH TIME selling games at $60 a pop.

What you are saying about games being OH SO EXPENSIVE TO MAKE MY GOD is a myth, perpetrated by those who will simply try to milk you dry of every penny you have by introducing consumables, lootboxes, and every other possible avenue to turn you upside down and shake you, bully-style. That is the main problem in the games industry right now. But you will never understand this; I will now shut up as I don't want to insult you

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Originally Posted by Bananastand

What are you talking about? Are you saying that there are games out there that launched with certain features, and then those features were taken back with some kind of update later? Is that really a widespread problem?

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Please watch the video above for some examples

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Originally Posted by Bananastand

If you bought a car with doors, and some repo men came by later and took the doors away, then you have a beef. But if you drove off the lot with no doors......that's a YOU problem.

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This is the problem. You will pay for said car and drive off, and then the doors will simply dissapear as they were generated by hologram and of course you were not notified of this in any way, shape or form. Now that you think of it was kind of suspect that the doors would open themselves whenever you approached the car, Tesla Model S style.

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Originally Posted by Bananastand

yeah, details I guess. Companies will sell products where there is a market for them. If there is a market for selling games piecemeal, why should a company be denied the chance to compete in that market? Just because you personally don't care for it, doesn't mean that it's time to call in the sheriff and outlaw the practice entirely.

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Yes, and when they cross the proverbial line, they have to bear with the consequences of crossing said line. And turns out I'm not the only one who is not a Perfect Customer.

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Originally Posted by Bananastand

Just because you personally don't care for it, doesn't mean that it's time to call in the sheriff and outlaw the practice entirely.

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I wonder what would happen in the wild wild west, since you brought up a sheriff.

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Originally Posted by Bananastand

That you know of.

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And once I know of it, there will be hell to pay. I will not support deceiptful business practices.

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Originally Posted by Bananastand

Question: Does it matter if they deceive you specifically? Or is any underhanded business practice enough to initiate a boycott from you?

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Sure. Classic example would be a hookers blowjob. A very pretty hooker, and then she blindfolds and cuffs you before the blowjob. It starts feeling like a great blowjob, but a minute in the blindfold slips and you find you were getting a blowjob by an old toothless witch. Boner gone. Would you A) come back to this hooker and b) pay for the current session?

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Originally Posted by Bananastand

I mean, what if cuphead was made by nazis using stolen IP. Would you stop playing even though it's a good game?

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Ah, reductio ad hitlerum. I wonder when that would show up. And the answer to that is no, they did not deceive me with the game. I have noidea who made any of the games I play, and there may or may not be actual fucking skinheads on the development team, yet no way to know for sure. It would be stupid to boycott on such a basis.

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Originally Posted by Bananastand

lol....have you bought anything, ever? Then I think you might have broken your vow here.

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Definitely not off late night TV ads

Again, if you like buying stuff knowing full well they deceive you, go ahead. I, however, refuse to. A company/product that willfully, knowingly deceives me is not worth my money. It can go fuck itself.

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Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer

If you say so. You apparently know why I hate one thing or another.

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It seems pretty obvious that you hate spending money on video games while simultaneously experiencing the frustration of wanting to play video games. Classic poverty-induced jealousy.

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The government exists for a few reasons, chief of which being protection of its citizens

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Aggressive sales tactics from video game companies is not a threat to national security.

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Have you been keeping up with the news?

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Yeah

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Yes it is. I'm not going to tolerate a company which intentionally misleads me. Does that not warrant being snitched to the BBB?

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Have you filed a complaint? If not, STFU. You know if you do file a complaint, they will respond. Let's see if the BBB agrees that you need more bright engrams. Be ready though...they will ask you what damages you incurred. They kinda need that info if they are going to offer you a remedy.

So, what damages have you incurred?

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Say you go to a restaurant and order a chicken sandwhich. Instead you get an iguana sandwhich

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That would suck. Fortunately there is a government body that enforces restaurant practices and requires certain disclosures that are explicit and accurate. That government body exists because FOOD is something vital to the health and safety of the citizenry.

Sorry, but XP and StarCards just don't rise to that level. If you feel that they do, then you need therapy because you have become WAY too invested in your toys.

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I don't care

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LOL why? It's perfectly ok to perceive an act differently based on whether or not the intentions were honorable.

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I don't care. This is the part where I tell you "But have you seen their earnings call?"

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I'm not going down the road of what is "enough" profit. Any company, in any industry, anywhere, is seeking the maximum profits that a market will yield. If the market will pay it, then it's justified. Period. If you choose to leave that market....then fine. That's your decision. But you aren't OWED anything.

Explain why you feel so entitled to get the games you want, with the features you want, at the price you want.

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I don't care. How many gaming communites just like the one you describe do not exist, and all of these without having to have had to lie, deceive and con their customers in the name of money?

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Prove that they were motivated only 'in the name of money'. Prove the me that they didn't to it to bolster the community within the game. Prove to me that they didn't do it for some benign game-balancing reasons.

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The point is that the company lied to me. Tried to, at least. Once caught with the hand in the proverbial cookie jar, it didn't even say it was a mistake nor anything. Just that "the system did not function as intended". Indicating that there WAS a system in place doing this, which only came to light after investigative digging.

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Yeah...they did it. You still don't know WHY they did it. You have your assumptions, but that's all they are.

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There is simply no blinder man than he who refuses to see.

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Do you not see that Destiny 2 is an awesome friggen game with a very satisfying pace of play and frequency of rewards? Does that not matter to you at all?? You've blocked out everything about the game except for a laser-focused obsession with a mildly deceptive nuance of the XP system that has since been fixed. And you call other people "blind"?

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Claiming that companies have a tough time etc, as it's soo expensive making games nowadays, because why else would they require so much money

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I never said any of that. I'm not shedding any tears for game companies. However, at the same time I'm not going to begrudge them any profits that the market is willing to give them. If you're not part of that market, that's your choice. But don't be a bitch sitting on the fringe and crying "but I have a tough time and it's sooo expensive playing games nowadays"

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Have you seen EA's share price recently? Bear in mind that It was $15 in 2013. It was $120 prior to Star wars battlefront 2 release, november 2017. It's now at $105 after the backlash, and rebounding

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What's your point? They goofed, the market responded, they lost value. Then they did away with the offensive practice, and now their stock is rising again. What about this confuses or offends you?

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They can't make money right? They are having SUCH A TOUGH TIME selling games at $60 a pop.

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I never said that.

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What you are saying about games being OH SO EXPENSIVE TO MAKE MY GOD

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When did I say that?

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is a myth, perpetrated by those who will simply try to milk you dry of every penny you have by introducing consumables, lootboxes, and every other possible avenue to turn you upside down and shake you, bully-style.

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That's a pretty grim outlook. If you think everyone is out to get you, maybe smoke less pot. Other than, the only thing I can recommend is when a game presents you with some unsavory solicitation...TURN IT OFF!

You know that no one is making you do this right? You know that the only people affected negatively by this are people who are delusionally invested in video game accomplishments as if they matter in the real world. Maybe all your problems would go away if you just chilled out and realized it's just a toy.

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That is the main problem in the games industry right now.

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No it's the main problem YOU have with the games industry right now. Not the same thing.

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This is the problem. You will pay for said car and drive off, and then the doors will simply dissapear as they were generated by hologram and of course you were not notified of this in any way, shape or form.

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That's NOT the example you gave originally. What you're describing now is a deceptive business practice where a customer was led to believe they were paying for doors, and then got no doors. There are consumer protection agencies out there to prosecute these kind of offenses. Do you see why? Because there are actual DAMAGES. You gave away money in exchange for doors but instead got nothing.

You'll never convince me that getting less XP than you expected represents DAMAGES.

A more apt example would be if you bought a car that advertised gas mileage of 40mpg. Then you drove it for a year and found that it only got 36mpg. You went back to the dealer and complained. You were told that the estimate of 40 is "just an estimate" and was calculated in a factory test facility under ideal conditions. If you drive your car on a hill, in the wind, loaded with cargo, or anywhere other than an ideal-condition factory test facility then YMMV.

Only a stupid fucking douchebag would throw a fit saying "but that wasn't explained to me upfront!"

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Yes, and when they cross the proverbial line, they have to bear with the consequences of crossing said line. And turns out I'm not the only one who is not a Perfect Customer.

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And that's exactly what happened. SWBF2 got terrible reviews and sold poorly. EA's stock took a hit because of it.

Honestly, what else do you want?

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I wonder what would happen in the wild wild west, since you brought up a sheriff

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Why would that matter at all?

This is a poker site. Do you know how the handled bad beats in the wild west?

Player A: "I got a four of a kind"
Player B: "I got a straight flush"
Player A: "No you got a bullet in your gut. I'm taking your money, and I'll probably fuck your wife later. Enjoy being dead"

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And once I know of it, there will be hell to pay. I will not support deceiptful business practices.

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I'll bet you've used over a dozen products today from companies that told you little white lies. Your car's gas mileage is definitely one example. Have you ever seen laundry detergent packages that say "32 loads"? Have you ever counted? Is it fair for potato chip companies to say that their product is only 200 calories per serving while referring to an absurdly small portion of chips as a "serving". This shit happens every day. This crusade you're on is akin to pissing your pants. Sure it feels good, but you look fucking stupid.

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Sure. Classic example would be a hookers blowjob. A very pretty hooker, and then she blindfolds and cuffs you before the blowjob. It starts feeling like a great blowjob, but a minute in the blindfold slips and you find you were getting a blowjob by an old toothless witch. Boner gone. Would you A) come back to this hooker and b) pay for the current session?

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This doesn't answer the question that I asked, at all. I would say though, don't fuck around with witches. Pay her. Be polite, and leave her a good rating on Erotic Review. You don't want her to put a spell that makes your dick grow tree-bark or some shit like that.

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Definitely not off late night TV ads

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Such a specific answer to a broad question. LOL. I think what you meant to say is "Yes, I buy things". Whether you like to admit it or not, you are manipulated by advertising. The only things you actually need are food, and shelter. Literally everything else you buy is the result of a psychological manipulation.

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Again, if you like buying stuff knowing full well they deceive you, go ahead. I, however, refuse to. A company/product that willfully, knowingly deceives me is not worth my money. It can go fuck itself

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Have you ever had a beer? You know that despite how it's advertised, you wont' always find yourself in the midst of a huge party full of attractive people every time you open a can, right?

Do you still drink beer even though its makers spend millions upon millions engaging in deceptive and predatory advertising?

You know the expiration date on your milk is deliberately manipulated to make you consume it faster and buy more sooner. Are you giving that up too?

Have you ever seen a big mac that actually looks like the perfectly manicured burger creation that you see in the commercials?

Where do you buy your games? If it's gamestop, then you're patronizing foul unsavory liars. I worked there back in the days when it was called FuncoLand. We used to give out a cheap magazine with news, reviews and previews of upcoming games. That magazine was owned by the same company that owned the game stores. Do you see the conflict of interest?

Do you think it was a coincidence that Star Wars Episode 1 Pod Racer for N64 was named "Game of the Year" at precisely the same time that stores had accidentally over-stocked their inventories with that particular game??

Look man, it sure sounds noble to be crusading against deceptive business practices. But I think you need to raise the bar on what you consider to be an injustice. Otherwise you're just a ranting, nit-picking lunatic getting his feathers ruffled every time someone offends your particular chosen set of principles.

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Originally Posted by Bananastand

yeah, details I guess. Companies will sell products where there is a market for them. If there is a market for selling games piecemeal, why should a company be denied the chance to compete in that market? Just because you personally don't care for it, doesn't mean that it's time to call in the sheriff and outlaw the practice entirely.

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Hahahahahaha how ironic a statement. This vid is just up today

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXgtDs1oOlQ

They literally locked content already available behind the Curse of Osiris DLC. There is a market for this? Yes, once you are a captive audience because you played the game. You didn't know they'd remove content you already have to but it behind a DLC wall.

You just get this news today that the DLC is out. They literally removed old content and want to resell it to you as DLC. Hahahahahahahahaha so funny

Shady business practices AF. These assholes will not be seeing my money.

I think making parts of Destiny 2 F2P was a really bad move because now I know for sure that it's the most boring piece of shit game I've touched in a long time. Holy shit is it bland! You get nothing! You can hover, dodge and melee. WHAT THE FUCK. How did people pick this over Lawbreakers... why don't you just go play that other space game... Warframe. That's moderately fun.
I really think the only reason people are playing games like this is because they've literally never played a proper game before. You have to have no frame of reference to find this enjoyable.

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Originally Posted by Bananastand

It seems pretty obvious that you hate spending money on video games while simultaneously experiencing the frustration of wanting to play video games. Classic poverty-induced jealousy.

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If it's worth my money I'll gladly spend my money on it. I'm an avid practicioner of, what's the term again ... voting with my wallet. If it has greedy practices in it, they can kindly go fuck themselves.

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Originally Posted by Bananastand

Yeah

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LOL

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Originally Posted by Bananastand

Have you filed a complaint? If not, STFU. You know if you do file a complaint, they will respond. Let's see if the BBB agrees that you need more bright engrams. Be ready though...they will ask you what damages you incurred. They kinda need that info if they are going to offer you a remedy.

So, what damages have you incurred?

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So we, as consumers, as the community, must accept whatever shitty practice the developers and publishers implement in a game, because the damage is not that much. If they need more payment without reason, we should just pay and shut the fuck up.

Great logic there, Watson. Never seen a slippery slope before I imagine

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Originally Posted by Bananastand

That would suck. Fortunately there is a government body that enforces ...

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Hahahahahahahahahahaha

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha just too good

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Originally Posted by Bananastand

I'm not going down the road of what is "enough" profit. Any company, in any industry, anywhere, is seeking the maximum profits that a market will yield. If the market will pay it, then it's justified. Period. If you choose to leave that market....then fine. That's your decision. But you aren't OWED anything.

Explain why you feel so entitled to get the games you want, with the features you want, at the price you want.

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You can't have your cake and eat it too. You can't have the "games are too expensive to make" argument while simultaneously oblivios of the "you are making money hands over fist, covering your expenses many times over" argument. DUCY?

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Originally Posted by Bananastand

Yeah...they did it. You still don't know WHY they did it. You have your assumptions, but that's all they are.

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1+1=2. Unless you live in a parallel dimension. Or if you are Banana

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Originally Posted by Bananastand

Do you not see that Destiny 2 is an awesome friggen game with a very satisfying pace of play and frequency of rewards? Does that not matter to you at all?? You've blocked out everything about the game except for a laser-focused obsession with a mildly deceptive nuance of the XP system that has since been fixed. And you call other people "blind"?

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Sure. Did you buy the Curse of Osiris yet?

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Originally Posted by Bananastand

What's your point? They goofed, the market responded, they lost value. Then they did away with the offensive practice, and now their stock is rising again. What about this confuses or offends you?

---

My point is they can't bitch about "games are too expensive to make" arguments while simultaneously oblivios of the "you are making money hands over fist, covering your expenses many times over" argument. DUCY?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bananastand

When did I say that?

---

Of course you didn't. What did you say? That made sense?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bananastand

That's a pretty grim outlook. If you think everyone is out to get you, maybe smoke less pot. Other than, the only thing I can recommend is when a game presents you with some unsavory solicitation...TURN IT OFF!

---

Sure. Did you buy the Curse of Osiris yet? Else you may not have the content that you already had anymore. Just a heads-up.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bananastand

You know that no one is making you do this right? You know that the only people affected negatively by this are people who are delusionally invested in video game accomplishments as if they matter in the real world. Maybe all your problems would go away if you just chilled out and realized it's just a toy.

---

Sure. Which is why I keep my money in my pocket and I only buy the deserving games.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bananastand

No it's the main problem YOU have with the games industry right now. Not the same thing.

---

I assume that with this "YOU" you mean a lot of fucking people and not just me. Or you may not have been paying attention.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bananastand

That's NOT the example you gave originally. What you're describing now is a deceptive business practice where a customer was led to believe they were paying for doors, and then got no doors. There are consumer protection agencies out there to prosecute these kind of offenses. Do you see why? Because there are actual DAMAGES. You gave away money in exchange for doors but instead got nothing.

---

For a normal person with a normal train of thought, yes, that should have been the original conclusion.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bananastand

You'll never convince me that getting less XP than you expected represents DAMAGES.

---

Of course not.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bananastand

A more apt example would be if you bought a car that advertised gas mileage of 40mpg. Then you drove it for a year and found that it only got 36mpg. You went back to the dealer and complained. You were told that the estimate of 40 is "just an estimate" and was calculated in a factory test facility under ideal conditions. If you drive your car on a hill, in the wind, loaded with cargo, or anywhere other than an ideal-condition factory test facility then YMMV.

---

That's an example of a very different thing. The gas for that car is not something you can buy at only that particular dealer, or that particular car manufacturer. Incentives change intentions a lot. Don't you think?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bananastand

Only a stupid fucking douchebag would throw a fit saying "but that wasn't explained to me upfront!"

---

Then I would be a stupid fucking douchebag when I realize that my car doors have disappeared. I would throw a fit.

Oh, and about the disappearing car doors, you can find a real world example here:

https://kotaku.com/forza-7-turns-the...not-1819110716

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bananastand

Why would that matter at all?

This is a poker site. Do you know how the handled bad beats in the wild west?

Player A: "I got a four of a kind"
Player B: "I got a straight flush"
Player A: "No you got a bullet in your gut. I'm taking your money, and I'll probably fuck your wife later. Enjoy being dead"

---

Rhetorical question Banana. You did not have to answer.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bananastand

I'll bet you've used over a dozen products today from companies that told you little white lies.

---

It's not a little white lie banana, but I'm done trying to make you understand because you'll never understand as you just admitted above

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bananastand

Such a specific answer to a broad question. LOL. I think what you meant to say is "Yes, I buy things". Whether you like to admit it or not, you are manipulated by advertising. The only things you actually need are food, and shelter. Literally everything else you buy is the result of a psychological manipulation.

---

Still, you got deceived. It's not the bitch you wanted, nor the one you entered an agreement with.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bananastand

Have you ever had a beer? You know that despite how it's advertised, you wont' always find yourself in the midst of a huge party full of attractive people every time you open a can, right?

Do you still drink beer even though its makers spend millions upon millions engaging in deceptive and predatory advertising?

---

Oh, I sure drink beer. Not american beers though. And I haven't seen the deceptive and predatory advertising, but it wouldn't surprise me. One question though; do they market beer to teens?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bananastand

You know the expiration date on your milk is deliberately manipulated to make you consume it faster and buy more sooner. Are you giving that up too?

---

There is something way too funny about expiration dates. I'll leave that for you to find out on our own.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bananastand

Have you ever seen a big mac that actually looks like the perfectly manicured burger creation that you see in the commercials?

---

Every living soul knows about this one? Your point being?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bananastand

Where do you buy your games? If it's gamestop, then you're patronizing foul unsavory liars. I worked there back in the days when it was called FuncoLand. We used to give out a cheap magazine with news, reviews and previews of upcoming games. That magazine was owned by the same company that owned the game stores. Do you see the conflict of interest?

---

LOL, gamestop. I'm not american Banana

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bananastand

Do you think it was a coincidence that Star Wars Episode 1 Pod Racer for N64 was named "Game of the Year" at precisely the same time that stores had accidentally over-stocked their inventories with that particular game??

---

LOL conspiracies. A quick cursory glance reveals it wasn't really in the running for either '99 nor '00. Odd.

Anyway, you really have a warped idea about what I think about games journalism & journalists. Spoiler alert: I do not like them

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bananastand

Look man, it sure sounds noble to be crusading against deceptive business practices. But I think you need to raise the bar on what you consider to be an injustice. Otherwise you're just a ranting, nit-picking lunatic getting his feathers ruffled every time someone offends your particular chosen set of principles.

---

It is an injustice, but it's a far reaching injustice. This is just the latest symptom of a long running malady of the industry.

Did you buy Curse of the Osiris yet?

Quote:

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I think making parts of Destiny 2 F2P was a really bad move because now I know for sure that it's the most boring piece of shit game I've touched in a long time. Holy shit is it bland! You get nothing! You can hover, dodge and melee. WHAT THE FUCK. How did people pick this over Lawbreakers... why don't you just go play that other space game... Warframe. That's moderately fun.
I really think the only reason people are playing games like this is because they've literally never played a proper game before. You have to have no frame of reference to find this enjoyable.

---

LOL

Destiny never attracted me for some reason. I'll be checking out Warframe later. GTA Online will get the Doomsday expansion on the 12th, that was completely out of left field for me

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer

Destiny never attracted me for some reason.

---

Like, before all the controversies. Now, with the controversies, fuck 'em

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer

Hahahahahaha how ironic a statement. This vid is just up today

---

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

Look man, I know it makes you feel all warm and fuzzy to find other people just as pissed about not getting the toys you want, but you need to seriously seriously seriously take a strong look at the credibility of your sources.

I watched the first few minutes of that video and I can tell you that it is full of extraordinary factual inaccuracies. Inaccuracies that, if corrected, would negate the entire motivation for this video.

He claims that the new expansion pack raised the level cap to 25. This is true.

He claims that the new expansion pack raised the power requirement for certain activities like the Nightfall mission. This is true.

He claims that you NEED the expansion pack in order to acheive the required power level for that mission. THIS IS FALSE.

He also claims that the power levels required are something around 320 or 330. This is also false. I've been playing for nearly a week straight and the highest level player I've ever seen is about 305.

The power level required for the nightfall mission is something like 260. It used to be 220. I know this, because unlocking that mission is literally the last thing I did before I went to bed last night. I'm at power level 270 something right now. I can see the nightfall mission on my map. It claims a power requirement of 260, and therefore it is available to me, as we speak. I'm going to play it tonight....without paying extra!!

The power level requirement for the game's most demanding mission is now 290. It used to be 260.

There is nothing in the game that requires a power level higher than 290 right now. I know this because I checked less than 18 hours ago, which was 24 hours AFTER the DLC was implemented.

And the "base" game provides you the opportunity to grind your power level, relatively easily, to something north of 300 and access all the things that were in the game to begin with. Absolutely NOTHING has been taken away, and any claim to the contrary is hopelessly misinformed.

So that video's claim that old content has been removed and locked behind a DLC paywall is a flat out LIE.

I'm telling you Jack, I played the game YESTERDAY, and everything your video-friend just said is factually incorrect. It's a salacious falsehood with no basis in reality.

And that link about Forza 7. That's WHINY BELLY-ACHING!! Just because something was in Forza 6, doesn't mean they're obligated to do it exactly the same way in Forza 7.

If you like Forza 6....PLAY THAT!!

Jack - Will you will honor your vow to boycott people who lie to you and never watch that guy's videos again?

Cause if not, then everything you've posted on this topic loses all credibility.

Mr. Jimquisition lied to you just as badly as Bungie or EA. I seriously wanna know what you're gonna do about that?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bananastand]I'm telling you Jack, I played the game YESTERDAY, and everything your video-friend just said is factually incorrect. It's a salacious falsehood with no basis in reality.

And that link about Forza 7. That's WHINY BELLY-ACHING!! Just because something was in Forza 6, doesn't mean they're obligated to do it exactly the same way in Forza 7.

If you like Forza 6....PLAY THAT!![/QUOTE]

You're not a player Banana, you are a payer. We need those like you in the ecosystem too, so keep paying.

By all means, spend all the money you like on every game and in-game item you can

Please


[QUOTE]If you're new to Destiny 2 then you might surprised to learn that since the launch of the [URL="http://www.usgamer.net/articles/06-12-2017-destiny-2-curse-of-osiris-dlc-guide-how-to-access-the-new-expansion

Curse of Osiris expansion[/URL], you're now locked out of some high-level activities if you're playing without the new DLC.
That's because the Curse of Osiris expansion raises the level cap for Destiny 2 characters. Likewise, the endgame level and Power Level requirements have also been raised for activities like the raid and Nightfall Strike. At least for their more exciting Prestige variants. Both have been raised to a 330 recommended Power Level.
So if you're playing on Destiny 2 without the expansion, you're stuck at 305 Power Level and left out in the cold from the nice 330 endgame content.

---

So, this is Fake News?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bananastand

Jack - Will you will honor your vow to boycott people who lie to you and never watch that guy's videos again?

Cause if not, then everything you've posted on this topic loses all credibility.

Mr. Jimquisition lied to you just as badly as Bungie or EA. I seriously wanna know what you're gonna do about that?

---

Assume he lied to me. Did he lie to me so I give him money? Because last I checked, I never bought anything from Mr. Jimquisition. He, as you can surely not see, has no motive to lie to me. He is just reporting the game news.

Are all of the other Destiny players complaining about this on Destiny' subreddit lying in unison? Are all of the other outlets who reported on this lying? This dude, with 11K upvotes, 2K comments, also lying?
https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheG..._subscription/

These people seem to know what they are talking about, and as I haven't played the game, I will take their word for it. Sorry I don't take yours, but its mainly because there many more of these guys.

Oh, and just for kicks, here is your gamespot, in on the Fake News

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/de.../1100-6455455/

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bananastand

Cause if not, then everything you've posted on this topic loses all credibility.

---

Says a troll

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer

So, this is Fake News?

---

Ostensibly

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer

Assume he lied to me. Did he lie to me so I give him money? Because last I checked, I never bought anything from Mr. Jimquisition. He, as you can surely not see, has no motive to lie to me. He is just reporting the game news.

---

You dont' give money to CNN. So you're saying because you don't give money to CNN, it's ok for CNN to invent a story about a Trump-Russia connection and continue to dangle salacious tidbits of a fake story in order to keep you tuning in over and over hoping you'll finally find out that the story is real. But it isn't. It's all a gigantic lie to captivate your attention so it can be re-sold to advertisers.

That's all fine cause you don't pay CNN?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer

Oh, and just for kicks, here is your gamespot, in on the Fake News

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/de.../1100-6455455/

---

why is it MY gamespot?

if you're referring to my previous employment at FuncoLand, they were bought by an outfit called Gamestop, not Gamespot.

BTW, speaking to my previous employment at FuncoLand....

This is a TRUE STORY. One day employees were instructed by corporate management that we were no longer allowed to not-recommend games. In other words, if a customer asked if Game X was any good, we were required to reply "yes".

This exchange actually happened....
Customer: "Is this X-Files game any good?"
Me: "yeah, it's great"
I said that despite having read this
http://www.ign.com/games/the-x-files-the-game


I mean, this is just my own personal experience as a 19 year old weekend cashier in a rural town video game store. I'm sure had I penetrated deeper into the sinister video game cabal, I would have found even more outrageous offenses. So the shenanigans are not new. And I wouldn't say they've gotten particularly worse over the last 20 years. So any complaints about "disturbing trends" seems unfounded

Quote:

---

You dont' give money to CNN. So you're saying because you don't give money to CNN, it's ok for CNN to invent a story about a Trump-Russia connection and continue to dangle salacious tidbits of a fake story in order to keep you tuning in over and over hoping you'll finally find out that the story is real. But it isn't. It's all a gigantic lie to captivate your attention so it can be re-sold to advertisers.

That's all fine cause you don't pay CNN?

---

CNN is part of my cable subscription bill ... so I pay for it ...

That said, everyone who has a pair of eyes can see that cable news outlets like FOX and CNN are more entertainment than actual news

This one dude, Jim Sterling, is different from other journalists as he has been against loot boxes in video games since the beginning, always arguing that it will get worse. The motherfucker called it ages ago.

But this one story emanates from the depths of reddit. You know, where gaming investigations happen. Like all the other ones that have happened?

Try again

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bananastand

This is a TRUE STORY. One day employees were instructed by corporate management that we were no longer allowed to not-recommend games. In other words, if a customer asked if Game X was any good, we were required to reply "yes".

This exchange actually happened....
Customer: "Is this X-Files game any good?"
Me: "yeah, it's great"
I said that despite having read this
http://www.ign.com/games/the-x-files-the-game

---

It is assumed that the employees will lie to you whenever you ask them about anything they sell, be it perfumes, tacos, or indeed video games. That is the incentive thing I keep telling you about.

Anyway, I will admit I erred slightly in my claims earlier.

It turns out that my statements about the game's most demanding missions still being accessible to non-dlc owning players is: STILL TRUE.

What's not available to non-dlc owning players is the ability to play those missions with some higher, "prestige-level" difficulty.

Let me repeat that: All of the modes and missions available in the game at launch, are still available to everyone regardless of whether or not they have purchased the expansion content.

The only exception is that you can not RE-play the same high-level missions with an increased level of difficulty and yielding different rewards. You used to be able to, but now you can't. So those 'different rewards' that were once available to you, are no longer available to you without buying the DLC. So....technically, the accusation is true.

But what's the impact?

those 'different rewards' have ZERO practical impact on the game.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/20...gh-4747?page=8

Quote:

---

It's worth noting there is no Power level increase as a result of the Prestige Raid arriving, unlike the addition of Hard Raids in the original Destiny. As such, the rewards are practically cosmetic in comparison.

---

Cosmetic. That means you don't need them to do anything, or access anything in the game. That means you can't play your "hindered progress" card Jack. They ONLY matter to people who are interest in maximizing the replay value of the game. They ONLY matter to someone who is motivated to pursue every item and achievement available to them. Someone like that is buying the DLC anyway.

It seems really far-fetched to imagine a person who is an invested fan of the game, motivated to maximize it's play-ability, but who would not buy the DLC. Even if such a person existed, I still won't believe that they could be "forced" to buy the DLC over some useless cosmetic shit in a video game. Furthermore, anyone who is into the game that much, has already had MORE than enough time to solidify that achievement already. The game has been out for three months. I just bought the game five days ago and I'm already deep into the post-game content.

Anyone who buys the game after Tuesday, hasn't lost anything. They never had access to the prestige level in the first place, so nothing has been taken from them.

So almost no one is affected by this at all. As detestable and unfair as you might perceive it to be.....no one actually got hurt.

The only people who are affected by this are a slim minority of people who bought the game just before this change, and didn't have enough time to realistically complete the now-denied content. I am one of those people, and I can tell you that I flat out don't give a fuck. If I enjoy the game enough that I want to maximize it's play-ability, then I'll probably be sold on the DLC anyway. And I wont' be sold on it because of a single minuscule cosmetic reward. I won't be forced to spend money over something trivial like that. If you are, then you need therapy. If I buy the DLC, it will be because Bungie EARNED that additional purchase by offering me a worthwhile extension of a game that I like.

So to Jack and anyone else who sympathizes with the views of Mr. Jimquisition I ask this...

WHO ARE YOU DEFENDING?

Finally, I'll close with a little personal confession about WHY I was interested in Destiny 2....

As I said, I had read about the dastardly dishonest plot about XP throttling and how the Destiny 2 community was outraged. And I thought....

"Hmmm, here's a game with a community that is so passionately invested in this game that they get outraged over something so minor, the game must be pretty good. And this community is large enough to generate outrage that is newsworthy.....this game must be pretty good."

that's how I came to decide on the purchase of Destiny 2.

Every heard that any publicity is good publicity?? I honestly wouldn't be surprised to find out that the guy who "discovered" the XP throttling is just a shill for Bungie. It's not impossible.

This shit with the DLC could be the same kind of calculated play. They are doing something that seems offsides, but doesn't actually have any victims. This draws attention to their product just in time for xmas. The EXACT kind of attention that scored them at least one buyer that I know of.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bananastand

So to Jack and anyone else who sympathizes with the views of Mr. Jimquisition I ask this...

WHO ARE YOU DEFENDING?

---

Not you apparently.

You love the game. Enjoy the game. As I told you around here:

https://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerf...27#post2281127

I, however, will be keeping my money.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bananastand

"Hmmm, here's a game with a community that is so passionately invested in this game that they get outraged over something so minor, the game must be pretty good. And this community is large enough to generate outrage that is newsworthy.....this game must be pretty good."

---

A quite interesting train of thought which I will never understand

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer

Not you apparently

---

That's not an answer. And I detect some pouty-ness in your tone here.

I get it. I'd be wishy-washy too if I were you. You've just spent days ranting at me about how the evil, conniving video game cabal has been pulling dastardly shenanigans to manipulate people's behavior. And now you learn that all this time, it's actually YOU who has been played.

This "crime" that you allege occurred, has no victims. Literally zero people were impacted in any significant way. So when you rant about it, or when some limey ass hole makes a youtube video about it.....what are you really accomplishing? There are no victims to defend. There is no injustice to correct. There is no need for a remedy. All you're doing, is promoting the game!!

BTW....what exactly is meant by the term "AAA games"

Is there actually an independent body that rates games using different quantities of the letter A?

Cuz I kinda get the feeling that the term refers to any game that's good enough to have a large following and community of players. And it seems that those large communities have taken on some delusional belief that the artificial worlds that they play in, are something akin to public utilities. Like there should be strict government oppression dictating who can access what, how they access it, and at what price.

I keep hearing "You can't do this in AAA games!!"

Why not?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer

A quite interesting train of thought which I will never understand

---

Why? You've never heard of popularity being a motivation to purchase?

Like, let's say you're REALLY into accordion music. One day you're walking down the street and you 10,000 people waiting in line outside of an arena. You ask what's going on and someone tells you that the crowd is heading into a concert for some hot new polka band.

Wouldn't you at least consider checking out their album?

What's confusing to you about this?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BananaStand

That's not an answer. And I detect some pouty-ness in your tone here.

---

I have to leave you in your blissful ignorance. Enjoy your game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BananaStand

I get it. I'd be wishy-washy too if I were you. You've just spent days ranting at me about how the evil, conniving video game cabal has been pulling dastardly shenanigans to manipulate people's behavior. And now you learn that all this time, it's actually YOU who has been played.

---

I'm not alone. But the old adage goes something like this: "A fool and his money ... "

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BananaStand

This "crime" that you allege occurred, has no victims. Literally zero people were impacted in any significant way. So when you rant about it, or when some limey ass hole makes a youtube video about it.....what are you really accomplishing? There are no victims to defend. There is no injustice to correct. There is no need for a remedy. All you're doing, is promoting the game!!

---

You can find, for instance, a whole community on Reddit full of unaffected players. You and I are the only truly unaffected players, BananaStand

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BananaStand

BTW....what exactly is meant by the term "AAA games"

Is there actually an independent body that rates games using different quantities of the letter A?

Cuz I kinda get the feeling that the term refers to any game that's good enough to have a large following and community of players. And it seems that those large communities have taken on some delusional belief that the artificial worlds that they play in, are something akin to public utilities. Like there should be strict government oppression dictating who can access what, how they access it, and at what price.

I keep hearing "You can't do this in AAA games!!"

Why not?

---

Which explains why I shouldn't even discuss with you, as you have no idea what you are talking about and couldn't care to even do a modicum of research before claiming that you do

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BananaStand

Why? You've never heard of popularity being a motivation to purchase?

---

There is a difference between popularity and notoriety. By your metrics, SWBF2 2017 is also a very popular game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BananaStand

Like, let's say you're REALLY into accordion music. One day you're walking down the street and you 10,000 people waiting in line outside of an arena. You ask what's going on and someone tells you that the crowd is heading into a concert for some hot new polka band.

Wouldn't you at least consider checking out their album?

---

Does the album cheat you out of songs as written on its cover?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BananaStand

What's confusing to you about this?

---

Your mental gymnastics confuse even yourself, you are just unaware of it. And that's OK

AAA is not a well-defined term.

It's generally used to mean the games from studios with the largest staffs and budgets, and they are, therefore, expected to be a GOTY title every time.

***
To be fair, that analogy in your other post is off.

Should be closer to:
You're a huge fan of accordion music and you see a massive crowd of people leaving a show with dissatisfied grumbles, and you learn that there's a new polka act inside. You learn that there's still plenty of people inside who didn't leave the show.

What do you do?

@Jack
As much as you are being sensible, your argument is paper thin.
"Other people feel as entitled as I do." is not a call to justice. "They lied to me." is not an indictment of criminal activity.

You have made the point that there was deception, but not put in in any appropriate context.
You've put your foot down that you don't support the deceivers, fine. What is your argument that your decision should be a mandate on anyone else's behavior?
Frankly, I don't think I can get through an hour without deceiving either myself or someone else, so I cannot stand beside your unnuanced position on deception.

Your argument is that people were hurt by this deception, but you haven't really defined what you mean by "hurt."
Clearly no one was physically injured, so let's make sure we're talking about the same thing when before anything else.

I don't think "impacted" and "affected" are the same. These deceptions affected the gamers, but did they impact those gamer's lives outside of the game? If so, why is that not the individual's responsibility to adult better? If they're kids, why is it not their parents responsibility to adult them better?

You're calling for legislation, but you completely dodged the part about "Did you file anything with the BBB on this issue?"
If you have, that's a totally different argument than what you're putting forward. If you've already taken political action, then your call for others to take political action has much more weight. You see that, right?

It seems like you're getting super-defensive on other people's behalf. If you have a dog in this fight, then what is it? How were YOU hurt by this practice?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey

To be fair, that analogy in your other post is off.

Should be closer to:
You're a huge fan of accordion music and you see a massive crowd of people leaving a show with dissatisfied grumbles, and you learn that there's a new polka act inside. You learn that there's still plenty of people inside who didn't leave the show.

What do you do?

---

It's relevant whether it's a paid concert or a free concert. In a free concert, you just load up on alcohol and wouldn't really care about the actual concert at all. If it's a paid concert, you'd hesitate, again depending on how much you'd have to pay. You'd start thinking about how big a fan you actually are and if it's actually worth it, noting that you saw a lot of people leave angry, but there are still a lot of people in there

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey

@Jack
As much as you are being sensible, your argument is paper thin.
"Other people feel as entitled as I do." is not a call to justice. "They lied to me." is not an indictment of criminal activity.

---

It's not just that they lied to mey, but it's that they lied to me, and the motivator can be directly seen as trying to get me to pay more into their shtick

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey

You have made the point that there was deception, but not put in in any appropriate context.
You've put your foot down that you don't support the deceivers, fine. What is your argument that your decision should be a mandate on anyone else's behavior?
Frankly, I don't think I can get through an hour without deceiving either myself or someone else, so I cannot stand beside your unnuanced position on deception.

---

I vote with my wallet. I assume you do the same. If you like being lied to just to get you to pay more into something, go ahead. I will never support such underhanded business practices; enough that they got caught red-handed so that they had to issue an apology.

There are many many games on the market. This one example marks one of the first times that a AAA game has outright lied to its customer base. And the one thing they lied about ties directly to their monetization strategy of that particular game. It's as clear cut as can be.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey

Your argument is that people were hurt by this deception, but you haven't really defined what you mean by "hurt."
Clearly no one was physically injured, so let's make sure we're talking about the same thing when before anything else.

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The actual word, "hurt", came from Banana's posts. I never used that word. Mine was fleeced, as in "getting fleeced", which dictionary.com says is "to deprive of money or belongings by fraud, hoax, or the like; swindle". And that is exactly what they did.

Because it's all a ruse in order to get you to buy stuff ingame in a game you already bought. It is larger than Destiny.

You play something. You get progression points. These progression points can be used to buy shit ingame. The game tells you you get a particular amount of progression points, or XP points or whatever. I assume you are grinding to buy your lootboxes, as that is the one thing one can do with XP. Of course you can buy these with real money too

Don't get me started on lootboxes

Now, the game systematically slows down your xp gain but doesn't tell you it's doing so. So you keep on grinding thinking you got X amount of XP, as that's what the game is telling you you got, and yet you got 0.1X. WTF. That is complete and total bullshit.

Again, why the lies?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey

I don't think "impacted" and "affected" are the same. These deceptions affected the gamers, but did they impact those gamer's lives outside of the game? If so, why is that not the individual's responsibility to adult better? If they're kids, why is it not their parents responsibility to adult them better?

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Are you sure you are not confusing the lootbox argument I have with the Destiny 2 XP system? It's not the same, but they are related.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey

You're calling for legislation, but you completely dodged the part about "Did you file anything with the BBB on this issue?"

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Yes the legislation is for the lootbox situation which has completely gotten out of hand.

Stories like this are becoming far too common Now

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9GHzcYTHuk

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey

If you have, that's a totally different argument than what you're putting forward. If you've already taken political action, then your call for others to take political action has much more weight. You see that, right?

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As I said above, are you not confusing the two viewpoints? One is the lootbox thing, which should not be in games aimed at teens, as you know gambling is for adults, and the other is this Destiny XP thing which I am completely and totally unaffected by personally as I have not and will not buy that particular game. Does not take away from the fact that it's completely shitty behaviour which I will not support