Flop cbet gets raised, is he playing back?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (4 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from http://www.flopturnriver.com

SB ($5.79)
Hero (BB) ($6.39)
UTG ($7.74)
Button ($5)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...lies/spade.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...es/diamond.gif
2 folds, SB bets $0.15, Hero raises to $0.45, SB calls $0.30

Flop: ($0.90) 10http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...es/diamond.gif, 3http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...ilies/club.gif, 7http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $0.50, SB raises to $1.30, Hero ???

Total pot: $1.90 | Rake: $0.08

This villain seemed decent was playing tight poker pre-flop and seemed positionally aware, their was a little history a few hands prior to this one where i check raised him on the flop as a semi-bluff and he 3bet me off it.

This is the first time he opened my blind so i have him on a preflop range that looks something like this { 22-AA AJ+ }

I'm obviously 3betting for value and i'd like to point out he time banked for a decent length of time before calling preflop, not sure if this is significant but may as well include all information that could potentially be of use.

Do you think i should be c-betting this board? I thought it would be decent as i have a lot of barrel opportunities, i intended on barreling any broadway and all diamonds. I also thought i had decent fold equity i thought he would fold all his missed Ax and low PP's if he had any in his range preflop.

I'm of the opinion that AK should be in my cbetting range here but i'd like to here your opinions on this also?

I honestly think there was a decent chance this guy was bluffing, due to his sizing and this is the second time he's raised me on the flop in a short period of time, is this always a T or better?? Am i just being to suspicious or is there a good chance he's bluffing, and if he was i don't think this would be a hand in my range i should re-pop with as a bluff is it?

I hate BvB spots.

I don't think I call this raise, considering you're prolly also going to be facing a bet on the turn and I don't know what a good turn card would be.

If you are going to fold to a raise on the flop, I'd cbet the flop a bit larger against a villain who seems decent, as your bet sizing of the-next-increment-over-half-pot is such a standard cbetbluff size.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kiwiMark

I hate BvB spots.

I don't think I call this raise, considering you're prolly also going to be facing a bet on the turn and I don't know what a good turn card would be.

If you are going to fold to a raise on the flop, I'd cbet the flop a bit larger against a villain who seems decent, as your bet sizing of the-next-increment-over-half-pot is such a standard cbetbluff size.

---

If we increase our sizing villains bluffs have to work even less to be profitable.

If you think he's completely FoS you could CiB and barrel the turn but I don't think I would ever do that at micros. You are probably just being paranoid. You need more observations to back up a rebluff or call.

What's your 3-betting range?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by spoonitnow

What's your 3-betting range?

---

As i assumed he had a tightish range it would be;

{ A2s-A5s JJ+ AK }

Edit - Whats CiB?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by seven-deuce

Whats CiB?

---

Combat Infantryman's Badge

No, no, i mean Click it Back - A min-re-raise. It's usually the amount that gets put on the Raise button by default

The flop is T:diamond: 3:club: 7:spade: and your range is {A2s-A5s, JJ+, AK}. Here's your range in order from the best to worst hand with the number of combinations in parentheses.

AA(6)
KK(6)
QQ(6)
JJ(6)
Ad3d/As3s(2)
Ah3h(1)
AK-high With BDFD(3)
AK-high Without BDFD(13)
A-high With BDFD(9)
A-high Without BDFD(3)

Villain needs you to fold at least 48% of the time to be profitable with a bluff, and that's pretty much what you're worried about here.

You know how to decide on value betting hands, but which bluffing hands should you add to your c-betting range first? Let's suppose that the AK-high hands with a BDFD and the A-high hands with a BDFD should be your first additions. AK-high without the BDFD should be your next additions. Let's say that your bluffing range stops there since you actually did c-bet with AK-high without a flush draw. That's a total of about 25 hands.

Suppose you're value betting JJ+ with the intention of getting the money in. That is, you're betting JJ+ and you're never folding to a flop check/raise. That means you're folding about 51 percent of the time assuming you always fold all of your bluffing combos.

The point that I'm making is that you're not really getting exploited if he's check/raising you on a bluff. Insecurities over that kind of thing can lead to spew.

I actually had a BDFD in the OP but it doesn't affect your anlaysis anyway. I always forget i can analyse things from villains perspective with his bet sizing etc as well as my own when i get into these spots and then work out how much i'm folding and if i'm being exploited i shouldn't have to post a similar hand again.

Say we analysed this hand and we were folding like 60% then we could just make our c-betting range stronger by removing all the weak stuff and 3bet the flop/get it in for value until he re-adjusts?

So we could have a new stronger cbet range of JJ+ and only the AK's with the BDFD, i'm inlcuding the AK's with BDFD so there are still hands that i'm bet folding the flop with so he doesn't adjust just as quickly with his check-raises i.e they will still be successful sometimes but not as much, and i don't want to over adjust and make my c-bet range too strong so that he stops calling my value bets on the flop.

Again am i thinking along the correct lines here?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DoubleJ

No, no, i mean Click it Back - A min-re-raise. It's usually the amount that gets put on the Raise button by default

---

CiB = Click it Back, and it usually means a min re-raise, as stated.

When I first heard the term, it meant an instant min re-raise.

You might do this when you anticipate a raise from an aggro Villain. You bet into him and while you wait for him to raise, your mouse is hovering over your raise button (where it will be when the button shows up), anticipating a min re-raise. Then you Click it Back as soon as it pops up.

This one is too fun and when used properly, it works so amazingly well at encouraging mistakes from that Villain in pots with you.

If you've never used this tactic, it works best on someone who likes to c/r lots of flops or turns. You'll want to have at least TPGK the first time you do this, since it can be misinterpreted as a mis-click. I don't do it OOP, because I want to set the first bet size, so that I don't min-raise a min-bet.

This is not a common tactic I use, it's something I keep in mind when someone is getting out of line, and I have a mid-high strength hand.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey

When I first heard the term, it meant an instant min re-raise.

You might do this when you anticipate a raise from an aggro Villain. You bet into him and while you wait for him to raise, your mouse is hovering over your raise button (where it will be when the button shows up), anticipating a min re-raise. Then you Click it Back as soon as it pops up.

This one is too fun and when used properly, it works so amazingly well at encouraging mistakes from that Villain in pots with you.

If you've never used this tactic, it works best on someone who likes to c/r lots of flops or turns. You'll want to have at least TPGK the first time you do this, since it can be misinterpreted as a mis-click. I don't do it OOP, because I want to set the first bet size, so that I don't min-raise a min-bet.

This is not a common tactic I use, it's something I keep in mind when someone is getting out of line, and I have a mid-high strength hand.

---

I'm not sure I fully understand the point. Are you trying to get the villain to fold his bluff so that he does not continue aggression and will think twice about bluffing you next time? (But if you do think he is bluffing, wouldn't it be better to let him hang himself?) Or are you trying to fluster him into calling with something weaker than he should?

Whoops I suck at life and typed the flop wrong haha.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by seven-deuce

I actually had a BDFD in the OP but it doesn't affect your anlaysis anyway. I always forget i can analyse things from villains perspective with his bet sizing etc as well as my own when i get into these spots and then work out how much i'm folding and if i'm being exploited i shouldn't have to post a similar hand again.

Say we analysed this hand and we were folding like 60% then we could just make our c-betting range stronger by removing all the weak stuff and 3bet the flop/get it in for value until he re-adjusts?

So we could have a new stronger cbet range of JJ+ and only the AK's with the BDFD, i'm inlcuding the AK's with BDFD so there are still hands that i'm bet folding the flop with so he doesn't adjust just as quickly with his check-raises i.e they will still be successful sometimes but not as much, and i don't want to over adjust and make my c-bet range too strong so that he stops calling my value bets on the flop.

Again am i thinking along the correct lines here?

---

@bold, yes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Malbrack

I'm not sure I fully understand the point. Are you trying to get the villain to fold his bluff so that he does not continue aggression and will think twice about bluffing you next time? (But if you do think he is bluffing, wouldn't it be better to let him hang himself?) Or are you trying to fluster him into calling with something weaker than he should?

---

The first time, do it for thin value. I'm not trying to min raise a monster. I wouldn't do this with a monster draw, where fold equity is key. I'm 3-betting IP with a decent hand, on a board that is dry as the sahara.

I'm min 3-betting this particular aggro-donk which is definitely to fluster him into playing outside his comfort zone and making mistakes in future pots against me.

Just for context, I do this maybe once or twice a month (~20k hands). I mean if I do it to a villain once, you can bet I'll do it again, and see how he's responding and form a range around it. It's not a regular part of my game, though. I don't expect to use this tactic when I play... it is something I do when a villain is being obviously out of line, and I'm taking a stand to out-play him.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by spoonitnow

@bold, yes.

---

I never crunched any numbers the first time, so my new cbet range is a total of 27 combos, and i'm bet folding 3 of them so, i'm only folding to a check-raise 11.11% of the time, while villain needs me to be folding 48% for his bluffs to be profitable. So if we assume he is just bluffing here 100% he is spewing quite heavily in these spots then, not to mention the times he gets mad when i re-pop him on the flop with JJ+ and he spew shoves with a bluff.

I'd like to point out i know his range isn't 100% bluffs in this spot and he could show up with a set, JJ QQ himself, i'd say he 4bets all-in with AA/KK preflop. I was just forming a scenario in my head to aid my understanding.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by seven-deuce

As i assumed he had a tightish range it would be;

{ A2s-A5s JJ+ AK }

Edit - Whats CiB?

---

I'm of the opinion that IP vs a SB open you should be flatting A2s-A5s.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by seven-deuce

I never crunched any numbers the first time, so my new cbet range is a total of 27 combos, and i'm bet folding 3 of them so, i'm only folding to a check-raise 11.11% of the time, while villain needs me to be folding 48% for his bluffs to be profitable. So if we assume he is just bluffing here 100% he is spewing quite heavily in these spots then, not to mention the times he gets mad when i re-pop him on the flop with JJ+ and he spew shoves with a bluff.

I'd like to point out i know his range isn't 100% bluffs in this spot and he could show up with a set, JJ QQ himself, i'd say he 4bets all-in with AA/KK preflop. I was just forming a scenario in my head to aid my understanding.

---

On the contrary, if he's never bluffing you're getting your ass handed to you never folding. If you're never folding because your range is really narrow and is heavily value weighted, you are not bluffing enough vs this player.

If villain is calling 3bets and giving up a lot postflop, to exploit this you need to ramp up the weight of bluffs in your 3bet range and cbet a ton/give up when facing resistance.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Micro2Macro

On the contrary, if he's never bluffing you're getting your ass handed to you never folding.

If villain is calling 3bets and giving up a lot postflop, to exploit this you need to ramp up the weight of bluffs in your 3bet range and cbet a ton/give up when facing resistance.

---

@bold - i always forget to think of things from the other extreme.

Although the idea that he was bluffing 100% was purely made up, i know he wasn't.

To the second part this is good info, so we would just add more 3bet bluffs to our 3bet range choosing the ones that we expect to perform best i.e get the most folds preflop and have some playability post-flop, so we can c-bet more boards with a hand that has some potential, instead of absolute trash such as 72o just an extreme example of shitty playability and c-bet potential.

And we give up when faced with resistance with our flop bluffs, but continue with the stronger hands in our value range.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Micro2Macro

I'm of the opinion that IP vs a SB open you should be flatting A2s-A5s.

---

Whoops, I thought we were against the button. I'm fucking this hand up left and right.

CB is fine because two overs, few good barrel cards, BDNFD etc. i'd fold vs the C/R this time. i'd definitely jam any NFD's you have in your range here though.

Having the Ad kinda sucks here because as much as it gives us a BDFD, it blocks a lot of his draws that would be in his c/r range here.

An interesting think to stove here would be AdKs vs villains range including nut fd's, which won't get counted because we block them. Then switching our hand to AhKs or something.

I'm at work so I can't stove it right now.

As for this hand in question. Default would be to fold. You have a reasonable amount of hands here than can play back, JJ+, all Axdd, Kxdd. Until you have better reads this hand is no longer near the top of your range in terms of equity on this board.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by seven-deuce

As i assumed he had a tightish range it would be;

{ A2s-A5s JJ+ AK }

Edit - Whats CiB?

---

I don't really agree with your assumptions about his range being 22+, AJ+. It's BvB, are you really thinking he isn't opening other broadways, suited connectors, etc. Likely even wider if he assumes you aren't 3betting light or calling wide. I mean without stats, I'd assume someone who is "decent... and positionally aware" is opening much wider than your initial range for him indicates.

With that said, and again without stats, I think you should probably be 3betting a good bit wider here. Defending against good light 3bettors really isn't the easiest thing to do, and it's likely he will make some mistakes in doing so. By either folding too frequently to the 3bet, or calling OOP and folding too much postflop.

So BvB, I'm typically pretty inclined to 3bet a polarized range rather frequently. And flatting hands that play well postflop IP like A2s-A5s. 3betting hands like K4s, A7o, Q7s, etc that we don't really want to be calling with. Unless we know he's calling too frequently, in which case we 3bet hands with higher pot equity (broadways/pairs).

And in doing so, we will have better hands like flush draws, OESD, middle pairs + over, TPTK, etc in our range (in addition to your value 3betting hands) for stacking off against his check/raise, such that we don't really need to be playing back with AK here.