You are experiencing a carjacking...

Scenario 1) You are leaving the mall late at night, and about halfway to your car...you notice 4-5 guys "messing" with it. Trunks popped open, lights on, and theyre, at minimum vandalizing, your car (probably taking it). No mall security. What do you do? Does this change if they notice you? Does it change if you are armed?

Scenario 2) You're driving, stop at a red light, and bam....car jacker appears out of nowhere and demands your vehicle and phone. Assume hes not just a lunatic, and has some kind of weapon. Do you comply with demands? Does this change depending on # of attackers? Does it change if you are armed / have chance to run him down?

Extracredit: How do you best go about 'catching' them and recovering your vehicle? What characteristics are you looking for, and how best to remember them? If your wallet is taken, and thus theives have your address, are you moving?

1 they can have it. I have insurance

2 they can have it, I have insurance

I hope they come to my house hopefully when I am home and I will then get to kill them.

1) Get out of sight and call the police and let the insurance cover costs. If they notice me I'd run. No gun carrying in the UK so "armed" doesn't really apply.

2) Drive with locked doors in cities/towns. I'd just floor it and get out of there.

Extra : Report it to the police, no way I'd try and chase them down. I wouldn't move.

1) The circumstances don't change the obvious response in this situation: flamethrower

2) Larynx-crushing five finger death punch.

3) I prep my home with a combination of Home Alone and Skyfall style hijinx. Keep the change, you filthy animal.

Are they black?

1) hide and call the cops for sure. I'm no hero. Insurance will replace any missing stuff.

2) floor it. GTFO.

Extra credit: That's what insurance is for. I'm not moving on account of some hypothetical risk.

in the words of my father.

'things can be replaced. you cannot be.'

I thought insurance payouts are never actually gave you enough to buy the same car.

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Originally Posted by rong

I thought insurance payouts are never actually gave you enough to buy the same car.

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My insurer said they'd sit you down and go over the blue book value of the car.

I'd treat this situation the same way I would a bear confrontation in the woods. Just posture. Yell loudly, confidently, and angrily. Most likely you'll chase them off, but if you don't and they attack then just play dead.

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Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey

1) hide and call the cops for sure. I'm no hero. Insurance will replace any missing stuff.

2) floor it. GTFO.

Extra credit: That's what insurance is for. I'm not moving on account of some hypothetical risk.

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If by stuff you mean belongings then no insurance won't cover your dumb ass for leaving "belongings" in your car.

Probably just let them have the car in both scenarios. If I was armed and the law was different in that you could use deadly force to defend your car in both scenarios, I would lean toward defending my property with some serious bodily harm coming their way.

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Originally Posted by rong

I thought insurance payouts are never actually gave you enough to buy the same car.

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You're right. I got more than it was worth and got a better car.

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Originally Posted by Icanhastreebet

If by stuff you mean belongings then no insurance won't cover your dumb ass for leaving "belongings" in your car.

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Car insurance doesn't cover but renter's and/or homeowner's insurance should.

1- I think I walk out of earshot and then call the cops and tell them the situation and add that I am armed and I'm going to confront them. Then I quickly make my way to the nearest place that I can buy a knife. The cops will come super fast, and when they question me about my gun, I'll tell them that I was armed with a knife and that I thought better of it after hanging up.

2- Really not sure here, but if I'm alone in the car the chances of me attempting to flee are much greater.

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Originally Posted by rong

I thought insurance payouts are never actually gave you enough to buy the same car.

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depends how much you want to fight it. sometimes all it takes is going to a dealership and noting that a similar car to your own costs several thousand dollars more than the insurance company's offer to get them to bump it.

1 - the safest option

2 - i am not afraid of guns at a very close range (knives are different), and i would probably quite easily be able to put on an act where i would immediately freak out and start sobbing and begging him to spare my life then suddenly attack his gun hand and get it pointed away from me before he has time to even know what happened then gorilla smashing commences

OP -

1. Call 911. Try not to alert the carjackers obviously but try to give popo as much info as you can to bust them in the act. Even if armed, the risk:reward ratio there is just way too high to approach, and that's not even getting into the life vs property discussion.


2. kind of vague, too many possible variables. floor it?

So, i asked this question because its not something I've ever really thought about. I googled, and found my response would be pretty idiotic according to most police websites advising on the issue. (Fighitng/aggressive responses are ill advised in the first scenario, as well as in the second if there isnt enough room to maneuver your car away)

The "extra credit" part was poorly worded, i should have stated explicitly that we were trying to help the police catch them. How would you ensure you can remember the important details? Or what details are important?

Slight derail, I'm curious who would all protect their vehicle if you did carry a gun in that scenario? Some have already indicated they would if they were armed. I don't see it changing anything for me personally. You risk putting yourself in a potentially lethal situation if they are also armed and you lose. Or what if you end up having yo shoot and kill one? That'd weigh pretty heavy on my conscience. So much simpler to back off and collect insurance.

should make this more interesting, and assume we have drugs in car.

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Originally Posted by Galapogos

I don't see it changing anything for me personally.

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+1

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Originally Posted by Galapogos

Slight derail, I'm curious who would all protect their vehicle if you did carry a gun in that scenario? Some have already indicated they would if they were armed. I don't see it changing anything for me personally. You risk putting yourself in a potentially lethal situation if they are also armed and you lose. Or what if you end up having yo shoot and kill one? That'd weigh pretty heavy on my conscience. So much simpler to back off and collect insurance.

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If I had a weapon, using it would entail almost entirely holding the weapon against my chest and staring at the other guy. A show to say. I have it. I'll use it. Walk away. If there were too many guys to stare down, my gun would be useless. If the guy wouldn't be settled by the gun, my gun would be useless.

So in scenario 1, I'm out.

Scenario 2, however, has the potential to be practiced for. If I had a concealed carry permit in a friendly state, and was in the habit of carrying a weapon, I would probably use it to have the guy fuck off. In one motion, pull the gun, arm it and rest it against my chest. If I can manage that, it's a very easy movement to go from resting in your right hand near your left shoulder to punching them in the chest with fire. That should be enough leverage to having me survive intact.

Flamethrower is an option and you guys all puss out. W/E!

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Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

Scenario 2, however, has the potential to be practiced for. If I had a concealed carry permit in a friendly state, and was in the habit of carrying a weapon, I would probably use it to have the guy fuck off. In one motion, pull the gun, arm it and rest it against my chest. If I can manage that, it's a very easy movement to go from resting in your right hand near your left shoulder to punching them in the chest with fire. That should be enough leverage to having me survive intact.

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This is what I find kind of interesting. That people seemingly would have no problem killing someone to protect their insured car. I could see a situation it would be no question you kill the guy 1000x over like if they were trying to kidnap a member of your family or whatever. I'm just honestly surprised that you would feel something like your vehicle also merits this kind of protection which can result in this scenario ending up real bad in so many ways.

You would actually kill someone to protect your car?

I know you didn't outright say it like that. But the guy is armed and wants your car, if your choice is to fight back with a weapon, that means one of you ends up dead or badly injured.

I really hope this doesn't come across as condescending, this interests me though.

there is no way in fuck i would kill somebody to protect anything i own. i would do it only to protect a living person. most of americans' views on guns are really just mythology. they're not making anybody safer and almost never do they need to be used. they can be useful as a threat, but almost never as an active weapon. even when used as protection, they kill more innocents than stop perps

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Originally Posted by Galapogos

This is what I find kind of interesting. That people seemingly would have no problem killing someone to protect their insured car. I could see a situation it would be no question you kill the guy 1000x over like if they were trying to kidnap a member of your family or whatever. I'm just honestly surprised that you would feel something like your vehicle also merits this kind of protection which can result in this scenario ending up real bad in so many ways.

You would actually kill someone to protect your car?

I know you didn't outright say it like that. But the guy is armed and wants your car, if your choice is to fight back with a weapon, that means one of you ends up dead or badly injured.

I really hope this doesn't come across as condescending, this interests me though.

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I'd like for them to believe I'd shoot them to protect my car.

But I never said anything about shooting someone to protect my car.

@Gala: Its not that simple though.

The fact is that hes using some kind of weapon and is threatening your life or your car. Supposedly, nothing happens to you if you give up the car...but you cant know that.

I guess there are obvious signs like if hes got mental health problems or you notice the gun is actually a stapler, but outside that i think itd be really difficult to rationalize that the car is his true goal and not something else.

If i was armed, i think id be looking for any moment that i could 'safely' draw and fire. My life is already in danger imo.

Lets not turn this into a "value of human life discussion" thread though. We've had that already! (PS, i push the button that randomly kills for small sums of money...and id kill for less if it was a car jacker).

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Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

I'd like for them to believe I'd shoot them to protect my car.

But I never said anything about shooting someone to protect my car.

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Yes, but this choice opens up a chain of events that makes a violent confrontation much more likely than simply handing over the keys.

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Originally Posted by JKDS

@Gala: Its not that simple though.

The fact is that hes using some kind of weapon and is threatening your life or your car. Supposedly, nothing happens to you if you give up the car...but you cant know that.

I guess there are obvious signs like if hes got mental health problems or you notice the gun is actually a stapler, but outside that i think itd be really difficult to rationalize that the car is his true goal and not something else.

If i was armed, i think id be looking for any moment that i could 'safely' draw and fire. My life is already in danger imo.

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Yeah I'm likely over simplifying, but I was basing that on the fact that you said he's not a psycho in the question.

I think if someone comes up to me when I'm in my car and tells me it's a car jacking, I would see no reason why it wouldn't be his true goal.

If he's holding a gun to my head, yeah my life is in danger, but I'm also not going to get the opportunity to draw my gun on him and fire at that point. If he has taken his gun away, it's safe to assume it's because he's taking off in your car so your life is no longer threatened.

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Originally Posted by JKDS

Lets not turn this into a "value of human life discussion" thread though. We've had that already! (PS, i push the button that randomly kills for small sums of money...and id kill for less if it was a car jacker).

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Yeah, I guess it's going that way and it wasn't my intention.

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Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

I'd like for them to believe I'd shoot them to protect my car.

But I never said anything about shooting someone to protect my car.

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I wouldn't advise ever drawing a weapon during a conflict unless you intend to use it. You literally don't know who you're messing with.

The moment someone pulls a gun on you it is entirely reasonable to kill that person and I'd feel little to no guilt doing so. If it was a simple choice between kill him with no risk or let the situation play out I'd choose to kill every time.

The problem in this scenario is increased risk and when push comes to shove I'm a complete Pussy and I value my life very highly. So logically I'd prefer the lower risk of cooperation and realistically I'd possibly be a quivering mess who needs fresh pants after being robbed at gun point.

But fantasy me disarms robber Steven Seagal style and holds him there until police arrive without breaking a sweat or needing a gun of my own.

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Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey

I wouldn't advise ever drawing a weapon during a conflict unless you intend to use it. You literally don't know who you're messing with.

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Thanks for the advice.

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Originally Posted by Galapogos

Yes, but this choice opens up a chain of events that makes a violent confrontation much more likely than simply handing over the keys.

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You imagine having a weapon and deploying it to be risky, I don't. If I judge it to be risky, I wouldn't use it.

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Originally Posted by rong

But fantasy me disarms robber Steven Seagal style and holds him there until police arrive without breaking a sweat or needing a gun of my own.

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Yeah, forget the gun, imagine being armed with 10 years of Muai Tai or some such. I'd make a passing comment about the lethality of my fists as I casually toss my keys over the guys shoulder, in the instant his eyes move to follow them, I'd leap from the seat, through the window, and grapple him into a submissive arm-bar in one powerful fluid motion.

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Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

Yeah, forget the gun, imagine being armed with 10 years of Muai Tai or some such. I'd make a passing comment about the lethality of my fists as I casually toss my keys over the guys shoulder, in the instant his eyes move to follow them, I'd leap from the seat, through the window, and grapple him into a submissive arm-bar in one powerful fluid motion.

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Pft, forget the 10 years of muay thai, this is already my plan after watching a bit of UFC.

I just hope Joe Rogan's stopped next to me at the lights.

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Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

Yeah, forget the gun, imagine being armed with 10 years of Muai Tai or some such. I'd make a passing comment about the lethality of my fists as I casually toss my keys over the guys shoulder, in the instant his eyes move to follow them, I'd leap from the seat, through the window, and grapple him into a submissive arm-bar in one powerful fluid motion.

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...catching the keys before they hit the ground.

Seagal got fat :(

But he'd still kick my and your ass quicker than he could order a super size big mac meal, with diet coke obv.

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Originally Posted by rong

...catching the keys before they hit the ground.

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Hail to the King, baby.

Anyone who chooses to fight back will likely get jailed themselves if they manage to harm the carjackers seriously enough to incapacitate them. I think this is especially true in Option 1.

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Originally Posted by BennyLaRue

Anyone who chooses to fight back will likely get jailed themselves if they manage to harm the carjackers seriously enough to incapacitate them. I think this is especially true in Option 1.

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http://i.imgur.com/P8cYw.jpg

Yeah Florida's stand-your-ground law is pretty much nothing other than a license to kill. The stats on what has happened in that state after the law passed are mind boggling

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Originally Posted by rong

But he'd still kick my and your ass quicker than he could order a super size big mac meal, with diet coke obv.

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hmmmm I haven't trained a day in my life (other than lots of wrestling as a youth) yet am positive I would stomp his ass. He doesn't actually know anything about fighting and now is too fat to do anything

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Originally Posted by wufwugy

hmmmm I haven't trained a day in my life (other than lots of wrestling as a youth) yet am positive I would stomp his ass. He doesn't actually know anything about fighting and now is too fat to do anything

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Let me guess: your years of watching MMA would give you an upper hand against a chubby 7th degree akido black belt simply because "lol akido and fat guys"

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Originally Posted by d0zer

Let me guess: your years of watching MMA would give you an upper hand against a chubby 7th degree akido black belt simply because "lol akido and fat guys"

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In a fight I wouldn't attempt to do anything I've seen in MMA. But yes, lol aikido and lol at a fatass having any semblance of agility. He's not going to be able to knee me as I take him down and then he'll be a floundering fish who just tries to squirm and push

seagal is the most unlegit "fighter" to ever live

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Originally Posted by wufwugy

In a fight I wouldn't attempt to do anything I've seen in MMA. But yes, lol aikido and lol at a fatass having any semblance of agility. He's not going to be able to knee me as I take him down and then he'll be a floundering fish who just tries to squirm and push

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You're so delusional. Anyone who's devoted that much of their lives to any martial art knows how to move their body much better than people who don't train at all.

Here's how segal vs wuggy goes: wuggy dives in for an obvious double leg, which even a fatass can sidestep. fatass falls on top of wuggy, who is immediately winded because he's not typing on the internet. Fight over.

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Originally Posted by d0zer

You're so delusional. Anyone who's devoted that much of their lives to any martial art knows how to move their body much better than people who don't train at all.

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Steven Seagal ensinando Lyoto Machida - YouTube

It would be a little different if he wasnt so fat, but as you can see, he doesn't know how to move whatsoever and doesn't have any semblance of mechanics to produce power and maintain position. Being so fat he isn't able to do anything he might actually know. I do suspect he knows something about throwing a punch though, but I'm not going to stand and wang with anybody for any reason

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Here's how segal vs wuggy goes: wuggy dives in for an obvious double leg, which even a fatass can sidestep. fatass falls on top of wuggy, who is immediately winded because he's not typing on the internet. Fight over.

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I would stomp his ass and it would be fun. I do have a long history of fighting and beating guys bigger than me with more experience than me, but I wouldn't think for a second I could do anything to somebody who actually trains MMA. Lucky for me, Seagal hasn't trained much of anything with worth and is now so fat and unathletic that a decent nudge will distort his center of gravity. Also he's not much bigger than me, he's really just a little taller and a lot fatter

Just because he's not close to machida level, doesn't mean he's not above wuggy level. You're also wrong about writing off akido. It's not as practical as MMA training yes, but that doesn't make it useless.

Now I'm upset that I'm either being trolled, or talking with someone so delusional that it's pointless. And to top it all off this conversation is worse than "my dad could beat up your dad" :x

*akido throws wuggy*

Naw holmes, I can completely write off aikido. Its very foundation is a conundrum that assumes that power can be asserted without exerting said power. It was developed by scrawny weak wannabes who trick themselves into imagining they could beat up somebody who has any semblance of athleticism.

Its breadth of usefulness is in the idea "don't stand where punch will be", but its methods for attempting that are completely unrealistic and unusable. It's basically for people who failed physics and think they can cast the teleport spell

Seagal would be "above wugy level" if he was much thinner while maintaining strength and knew anything about clinching. But he knows nothing about clinching, is fat, slow, and weak, and thus any varsity level wrestler could shit in his mouth on command

itt we learn that wufwugy could beat the shit out of a straw man

I haven't straw manned anything

i badly wanna change wufwugys name to strawman

http://i.minus.com/iU5ZA38zPNM8y.gif

at the very least, let's change his location to "beating up steven seagal"

from this point forward the user known as wufwugy is now referred to as "stick in the mud"

Back to the question, it depends on the crowd around.
If there are plenty of peeps around, scream at the top of your lungs "*****(insert appropriate racial slur here) IS STEALING MY **** CAR!!! CALL THE COPS!!!

1. Thief is probably leaving quickly, without your stuff.
2. You now have plent-o-witnesses-you might want to skip the racial thing, or your car may be the least of your problems.
3. Hey, u can still run.

carjacking: should: they get my empty tank gas guzzler. Maybe the cops recover it with some gas in the sob.
would: who knows, pissed off country boys do stupid shit.

for the (insurance) record: it had a full tank of gas, monster stereo and not a scratch on it! he he he

Ha joke's on them, I haven't got a car.

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Originally Posted by OngBonga

Ha joke's on them, I haven't got a car.

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They've probably just gathered around to rape you then.

or an anus!

It's only rape if I object.