donk flop 20% over 178

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05-24-2011, 07:41 AM
celtic123

donk flop 20% over 178

Here Im posting a hand with my own thought process during the hand and afterwards . Comments welcomed.

MicroGaming - €0.02 NL - Holdem - 7 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

CO: €1.41
BTN: €2.00
SB: €1.75
BB: €1.58 (39/2 over 178 w/ 20% donk flop)
Hero (UTG): €2.47
UTG+1: €3.07
MP: €1.66

SB posts SB €0.01, BB posts BB €0.02

Pre Flop: (€0.03) Hero has K:spade: K:diamond:

Hero raises to €0.10, fold, MP calls €0.10, fold, fold, fold, BB calls €0.08

Flop: (€0.31, 3 players) T:club: 2:diamond: 7:diamond:
BB bets €0.15, Hero calls €0.15, fold

Im unsure what 0.5 PSB represents . His 20% donk rate inspired me to
flat to keep his range wide . A 20% over 178 means he donks 35 times , so this
surely is hardly ever TT,77,22 . But i hve no reads on his donk bet sizing.

Turn: (€0.61, 2 players) A:spade:

This makes me wish I hadnt flatted the donk bet , AT Is possible .

BB checks, Hero bets €0.41, BB calls €0.41

I wasnt 100% sure about a value bet , but his previous actions and my own self doubt left me unsure where I were.

River: (€1.43, 2 players) 4:heart:
BB checks, Hero checks

I checked , because I hadnt a clue where I was , I suspected AT , Ax , I dint want to give him a Chk / raise opportunity and wanted to see what he had .

Is flatting the donk bet a good move here for the reason I chose ?
05-24-2011, 09:23 AM
Shotglass

Well, I don't think so, not on this board.
With his stats it looks like otf he's gonna have some unpaired overs (Ax Qx), maybe QQ or JJ (but I think that AA would 3bet pre), TP with a 9 or better kicker, all of the sets and all of the combos for the flush and straight draws. We're ahead of everything but the sets and I'd be looking raise to about $0.60 to make it slightly unprofitable for him to draw.
05-24-2011, 01:25 PM
philly and the phanatics

yea def raise the flop....also other stats would be nice....and if you have 175 hands on him total and he is donking 20% of the flop it does not mean that he has donked 35 times...there is probably hella times where A. he didnt see a flop and B. He was the aggressor C. he was IP vs the initial raiser so he didnt have an opportunity to donk. I bet he probably had donked 1 out of 5 times.

But yea def raise flop all his Tx is still calling and flush draws. If he 3bet shoves id probably still call.
05-24-2011, 01:38 PM
Shotglass

Quote:

Originally Posted by philly and the phanatics

If he 3bet shoves id probably still call.

Yeah, given the stack sizes I'd prolly call too. He's only gonna have about 0.88 left behind after the flop raise. We'd be looking at that into a pot of about 2.38 minus rake.
05-24-2011, 05:23 PM
PKKFW

OTF I'd be raising for no other reason than the flush draw out there. Make it unprofitable for him to draw to that. As others have said, if he shoved I'd be calling and if he has hit the set lucky him.

Personally I like the bet ott. It represents the A, makes it look like you've floated his donk bet and hit lucky ott and doesn't give him a free card to draw to a flush or straight. His c/c has me thinking he has a draw or possibly some Tx combo.

As for the river, I'm fine with checking but from what little we know of his play I'm putting him on some non A Tx single pair combo like JT or KT, possibly with a busted FD backing it up or possibly JJ-QQ(unlikely though). I'm thinking KK+ and probably AK would have re-raised preflop. I'm thinking with 20% donk bet he probably donks whenever he hits top pair or has an over pair. He slowed down when the A hit and I'm guessing AT would have c/r us ott. So I'd be happy to shove the river as well but that's just me and I don't know if it would be +EV.
05-25-2011, 04:34 AM
celtic123

Thanks for your replies , Ive been digesting .

Quote:

Originally Posted by celtic123

....His 20% donk rate inspired me to
flat to keep his range wide .

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shotglass

Well, I don't think so, not on this board.

Cheers , this is a useful pointer , I've been seeing posts saying "flat call to keep villians range wide" , I tried to apply it here without really working out why.

Quote:

Originally Posted by philly and the phanatics

if you have 175 hands on him total and he is donking 20% of the flop it does not mean that he has donked 35 times... I bet he probably had donked 1 out of 5 times.

You're absolutely right ,1-5 donk bets . I couldnt work out why this was at first . .:confused:
I nearly posted on PT3 forums saying their Donk flop stats were broke . :oops:

Luckily ,I looked into my PT3 DB first . A simple thing that eluded me.
Also , a 39/2 wouldnt be a 39/2 if he donked so often !! :wall:

Quote:

Originally Posted by PKKFW

OTF I'd be raising for no other reason than the flush draw out there. Make it unprofitable for him to draw to that. As others have said, if he shoved I'd be calling and if he has hit the set lucky him.

Yes ,not making it unprofitable to draw on the flop was my first error . The donk bet seems to be my nemesis .

Since I posted this , ive notice myself auto-fold to mini donk bets , Im suddenly playing fit or fold. i.e . playing my hand and not playing the person.

weaktight | Hand | KK - €0.01/€0.02 No Limit Holdem

Thanks all for your inputs and card reading abilities.
05-26-2011, 12:59 AM
scott_owen

Quote:

Originally Posted by PKKFW

Personally I like the bet ott. It represents the A, makes it look like you've floated his donk bet and hit lucky ott and doesn't give him a free card to draw to a flush or straight. His c/c has me thinking he has a draw or possibly some Tx combo.

Not to say that its a bad idea to bet the turn.. but i dont think that the fact that it reps the A is a good thing, or a reason to do it.

Villain is 39/2 at 2NL so is probably not concidering the possibility of what his opponent has. But in the event of a villain that does think then by repping the A your telling him to fold all mid pairs because he's beaten. His calling range becomes flush draws and Ax. Obviously we need to price out the draws but i still want to get value out of all his junky 1 pair hands. Unfortunately we probably cant get value because its too real a possibility that this player has Ax so we must slow down.

point is, last thing i want here is to convince all the 10x hands that i have an ace and see them all fold, meanwhile any hand that has an ace calls. Thats a really bad reason to bet.

In the context of this hand we should raise the flop, this villain gives us value from a massive range of hands, mid pp, flush draws, gutshot draws, 10x, maybe 7x, JJ/QQ. your only behind sets, and i doubt they bet the flop in this way.