Pocket J's layed down but whould have won

Ok, I'm sure I'm doing this wrong and I can't remember all the details but I'm going to give it a shot. Forgive for messing this up but I need to know where I went wrong. This was a couple days ago so I'm trying to remember all the details as best as possible.
PStars.

Seat 3: Me holding JJ spade and club in SB

Seat's 2 and 6 are in hand as well, everyone else has folded. Pot $.06

The Flop: 9h 4d 2h.

I bet $.02 both seasts 2 and 6 call Pot now $.12

The Turn: 7d

Checks all around.

The river: Kd

Now here is where I think I got spooked. There is a potential Flush out there and the K as well scared me there a little as well. Seat 6 bets $.02 I Fold. Seat 2 Calls. Pot now $.16

Now I know someone said don't post the results so I'm not sure if I'm doing this right so please let me know.



PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG ($0.80)
MP ($3.11)
CO ($3.04)
Hero (Button) ($0.63)
SB ($1.29)
BB ($1.10)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...es/diamond.gif, Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...ilies/club.gif
2 folds, CO bets $0.06, Hero calls $0.06, 1 fold, BB calls $0.04

Flop: ($0.19) 2http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...lies/heart.gif, 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...ilies/club.gif, 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...es/diamond.gif (3 players)
BB checks, CO checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($0.19) Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...es/diamond.gif (3 players)
BB checks, CO checks, Hero checks

River: ($0.19) 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...lies/heart.gif (3 players)
BB bets $0.02, CO calls $0.02, Hero folds

Total pot: $0.23 | Rake: $0

{Edit: Added converted HH. -spoontinow}

This is just messy. Any way you can just grab the HH?

yeah, really need the HH to make this effective.

If you didn't raise preflop, you should have
bet the flop, bet the turn
not sure exactly what you are looking for here

I don't know how to get to the hand history if that's what HH means.?

yeah, well, if you don't have HEM or PT3, just request a HH from poker stars and see if you can find it, you should have pstars set up to save HH to a file on your computer. i have a folder set up on desktop to make it easier to find

in the future too you can go to instant HH and just post it to weaktight so later on you can review it

raise preflop for value against unkowns at 2nl, min bet on flop doesn't really accomplish anything. Not really a reason for any play that you made in this hand..

Yeah you aren't going to get extensive advice if you don't provide the HHs with the posts. It just takes too long to read that, and it's formatted so terribly, leaving out important information. Here you didn't talk about your preflop action (you should have raised). You don't have starting stack sizes, reads, or pot size.

Found it, Thanks for the help on how to find it. Good thing I did becasue I was defiently wrong an a few details so here we go. Please let me know.

*********** # 76 **************
PokerStars Game #44731808358: Hold'em No Limit ($0.01/$0.02 USD) - 2010/05/28
11:47:00 ET
Table 'Aguilar IV' 6-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: InesOrtins ($0.80 in chips)
Seat 2: Bruno Sacilo ($3.11 in chips)
Seat 3: nmmaestro ($3.04 in chips)
Seat 4: Dimaline3135 ($0.63 in chips)
Seat 5: tapias20n ($1.29 in chips)
Seat 6: nutins ($1.10 in chips)
tapias20n: posts small blind $0.01
nutins: posts big blind $0.02
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Dimaline3135 [Jd Jc]
InesOrtins: folds
Bruno Sacilo: folds
nmmaestro: raises $0.04 to $0.06
Dimaline3135: calls $0.06
tapias20n: folds
nutins: calls $0.04
*** FLOP *** [2h 5c 8d]
nutins: checks
nmmaestro: checks
Dimaline3135: checks
*** TURN *** [2h 5c 8d] [Kd]
nutins: checks
nmmaestro: checks
Dimaline3135: checks
*** RIVER *** [2h 5c 8d Kd] [4h]
nutins: bets $0.02
nmmaestro: calls $0.02
Dimaline3135: folds
*** SHOW DOWN ***
nutins: shows [7s 4s] (a pair of Fours)
nmmaestro: mucks hand
nutins collected $0.23 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $0.23 | Rake $0
Board [2h 5c 8d Kd 4h]
Seat 1: InesOrtins folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: Bruno Sacilo folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: nmmaestro mucked [As Qc]
Seat 4: Dimaline3135 (button) folded on the River
Seat 5: tapias20n (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: nutins (big blind) showed [7s 4s] and won ($0.23) with a pair of Fours

Added converted HH to OP.

Why do you have a 31.5 bb stack? Reload to 100bb, or 150bb here where you have position on two other 150bb stacks.

Consider 3-betting pre-flop and consider betting the flop. We can't give you any other advice because we have no reads. Read http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...ds-162741.html.

you folded this to a .02 cent bet on the river????? lol

yeah, so like i said originally, you have a great PP in position... you need to bet that flop
you are letting your opponents draw out on you, why?
there is no reason as played to not call the river bet. your odds are way to good

oh, and why are you playing so short??? set up auto reload asap

Quote:

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Originally Posted by philly and the phanatics

you folded this to a .02 cent bet on the river????? lol

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This.

You'd have to be good less than 1 in 10 times for this to be a profitable call. Given the way the hand has played out I think it's pretty obvious you have better holdings than the other two a large percentage of the time.

Next time you post a hand - either put up specific reads on the players you're contesting the pot with - whatever you've noticed about their play; are they opening too wide a range, do they 3-bet often, are they likely to fold to a blind steal, etc - or download the poker tracker 3 trial (or HEM if you prefer) and get your HUD set up and post the VPIP/PFR stats as guidelines on a given villain.

Wow yeah.. See from the initial post we didn't know (1) You only had a 31bb stack (2) Villain from from CO preflop (3) You were on BU and not SB (4) King came on turn and not river (5) you didn't bet flop/turn.... Plus more... Please try to get the HHs from now on.

I think given your stacksize I definitely be trying to get the money in preflop. I don't play shortstacked, but I'd 3bet to like $0.15c, and call a shove. On the flop, after both villains check, you should feel very good about your hand, and certainly be valuebetting, and looking to get the money in. Pot is like $0.19c, and you only have $0.57c behind. Just bet like $0.15c, so on the turn you can shove your last $0.42 into the $0.49 pot.

If villain cbets, you could either shove over, or call, and call a turn shove.

As played on the flop, check behind turn, and certainly don't fold to the $0.02c bet into a $0.19c pot getting almost 10:1 on a call, against what is apparently very weak ranges.

Thanks, but I guess none of this really matters now as I got a Voice Mail on my phone yesterday saying that Visa and Mastercard and compling with some type of UnLawful Online Gambling Act and I won't be able to use my card to deposit any further currency. So I guess after I blow this $3 I guess I'm done becasue I can't afford to buy a money order for $100 deposits. Sorry for the post being so messy but I have no clue what Hero or Villian or 3 Bet or a lot of those terms and Initials you all are saying. Thanks to everyont though

Bigger question, what do you do against players who min-bet a lot?
What's the biggest mistake you could possibly make against them?

Once you figure that out, the river is really easy to play.

You never know until you try but it works

LOL a 2c bet on the river.

I folded on the River because I thought someone might be betting on the King and they would have had the higher hand on me. I should have raised it up a bit more Preflop and bet the Flop and the Turn but I guess I was trying to play it safe. I guess against players that bet the Minium I probably fold by the River or sometimes the Turn if I can't see my hand hits. I'll start putting more in on the higher pairs early in the hand and make them pay to see the Flop.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dimaline312000

I folded on the River because I thought someone might be betting on the King and they would have had the higher hand on me. I guess against players that bet the Minium I probably fold by the River or sometimes the Turn if I can't see my hand hits. I'll start putting more in on the higher pairs early in the hand and make them pay to see the Flop.

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The smaller the river bet in relation to the pot, the more incorrect it becomes to fold. If somebody bets $1 into a million dollar pot, you should never fold. Do you see why?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by eugmac

The smaller the river bet in relation to the pot, the more incorrect it becomes to fold. If somebody bets $1 into a million dollar pot, you should never fold. Do you see why?

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no -- that analogy is like saying you should always enter the lottery

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Imthenewfish

no -- that analogy is like saying you should always enter the lottery

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that's not at all what i said

Quote:

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Originally Posted by eugmac

The smaller the river bet in relation to the pot, the more incorrect it becomes to fold. If somebody bets $1 into a million dollar pot, you should never fold. Do you see why?

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What if the board is AdAhAsAc2s and you have 2h2d? Then you have exactly 0% equity against any hand, and therefore should fold. As you would need 0.0000009% equity for a call to be breakeven.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by xxstacksxx

what if the board is adahasac2s and you have 2h2d? Then you have exactly 0% equity against any hand, and therefore should fold. As you would need 0.0000009% equity for a call to be breakeven.

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ok sorry i was totally worng

I'm just messing. Obviously you are correct in the sense that the smaller the bet in relation to the pot the less equity needed for a call to be profitable. But obviously that can't be all that is factored, as we still need to assess our equity against villain's likely range. Just because the bet is very small in relation to the pot, and thus our equity needed is small, doesn't mean a call is automatically correct. Because we can still not have enough equity. In the instance with OP's hand, he certainly had the 8% equity needed for a call to be breakeven.

i am also messing

don't not sleep and post kids

i was making ridiculous hyperbole to try to emphasize a generalized concept, which Fnord was trying to get at i think? am i fucking it up in thinking that calling a tiny bet when the pot is huge, even when it does turn out to be a mistake, is gonna be a small one, whereas folding is more likely to be a big mistake?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by eugmac

i am also messing

don't not sleep and post kids

i was making ridiculous hyperbole to try to emphasize a generalized concept, which Fnord was trying to get at i think? am i fucking it up in thinking that calling a tiny bet when the pot is huge, even when it does turn out to be a mistake, is gonna be a small one, whereas folding is more likely to be a big mistake?

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I understand the concept your saying, but you can't say to call small bets into large pots jfc. You should take it into consideration, but don't let it dictate your play

So what you're saying that I shouldn't have been too concerned with the River bet in relation to me being afraid of the King being paired. I should have stayed in a called the $.02 bet on the River?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dimaline312000

So what you're saying that I shouldn't have been too concerned with the River bet in relation to me being afraid of the King being paired. I should have stayed in a called the $.02 bet on the River?

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They're saying theres $0.21(i think) in the pot by the river and you only had to pay 0.02 to try to win it.If you call in this scenario 11 times and lose 10 times, but win once, you're up $0.01

Re-read my post.

Don't fold to min-bets whenever you have anything with any equity. You're at worst making a small mistake. I could go on about this if you'd like.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dimaline312000

So what you're saying that I shouldn't have been too concerned with the River bet in relation to me being afraid of the King being paired. I should have stayed in a called the $.02 bet on the River?

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EXACTLY, folding was terribad.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dimaline312000

So what you're saying that I shouldn't have been too concerned with the River bet in relation to me being afraid of the King being paired. I should have stayed in a called the $.02 bet on the River?

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The result is correct but your reasoning seems to show a lack of understanding. You calculate your pot odds based on the bet to be called in relation to pot size, and compare it to the equity you estimate you have vs his likely hand range. When your estimated equity is greater than the price to call, then you must call. If you don't understand what any of this means, you should read about it more in the Beginner's Digest.

Start here:
http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...ll-173396.html

Yes, it says calling an all-in, but since you're closing the action on the last street of betting, the decision making process to call or fold is the same as when you're all-in.

3bet pre and get it in on the flop. As played, you're getting 9.5 to 1 on the river. Call everyday and twice on Sunday.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by donkfish

3bet pre and get it in on the flop.

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How can you make these general statements without reads??

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Imthenewfish

How can you make these general statements without reads??

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Hero has a 31bb stack. If he's not going to get it in with a pair of Jacks here, I don't know what he's waiting for. Without reads, I'd take fairly standard lines until I know enough to exploit villain's tendencies. Here, the standard play imo is to 3bet pre and hope to get it in on the flop.

Ok another question. Based on the previos post I came to think I understand I'm the Hero? What is a villian, the person betting??

Yes, generally Hero is referred to as the person whose hole cards we can see (usually the poster of the hand), where we talk about how we would have played. Villain is the person Hero is fighting the hand with. There could be as many as 9 different villains...but typically there will only be 1, sometimes 2. Typically, villain is going to be someone that is giving Hero a hard time as well...either with annoying bets, confusing play, or otherwise. In this hand, you have two villains since we are questioning what to do after CO raises and in response to BB's bet.

Ok, Thank you for clearing that up. Now If I can just learn some other lingo and acronyms maybe I'll get better.

From what I can tell from this and the Was I Wrong thread, you might be better off just getting a pre-flop hand chart and play very tight, fit or fold poker while you slowly work on the pure fundamentals of the game (brm, position, pot odds, etc).

What do you mean by a Preflop hand chart? In the book that I'm reading it has the hand rankings as the Realtive Win Rate. Do you mean just play like the top 20 to 25 Hands??

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dimaline312000

Do you mean just play like the top 20 to 25 Hands??

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It's not the most optimal long-term strategy but I don't think it would hurt in the short-term.

Here, follow this:
http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...ce-157914.html

It's a 10NL strat writeup but it works just the same at 2NL.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Imthenewfish

They're saying theres $0.21(i think) in the pot by the river and you only had to pay 0.02 to try to win it.If you call in this scenario 11 times and lose 10 times, but win once, you're up $0.01

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This

Just please Call the Riverrrrrr.

I just want my 6 minutes back, no disrespect intended.

Why does this thread keep getting bumped

^^^^
hmmmm wonder if it's because you just bumped it again.

Must be a reason for you doing that ....
or
Not

^^You just bumped it bro

^^^
Too Funny.
LMAO
Now my 6 minutes have been well spent and I retract my previous thread statement.
My Bad.

Entertainment value is priceless.

In b4 lock