99 underpair turns set vs nit, 100nl
This hand caused a bunch of debate on my flop play
iopq> I bet ATC
<iopq> especially on K high board
<oskar> wut?
<oskar> he's oop
<daven> you funny sometimes dude ;)
<iopq> hero is oop
<oskar> and he's the pfr
<iopq> when I am villain
<iopq> and I called a raise pf
<iopq> and guy checks to me
<iopq> I bet ATC
<daven> dude, i c-c that flop
<oskar> yeah
<AFchung> aren't you turning 99 into 23o when you just check/fold flop lol
<oskar> you do
<daven> who said anything about c-f?
<AFchung> so you're c/cing flop and c/fing turn?
<daven> i'm at least gonna rep AdQd or something, hell, c-shove is almost ok - but not
<iopq> so we're c/cing here? hmm
<daven> he's checking behind like always
<iopq> why would he
<daven> cos it's full ring
<iopq> if he has any piece he should bet
<oskar> you keep making the same mistake of thinking everyone thinks like you iopq
<oskar> but nobody does
<oskar> :P
<iopq> actually they do
<iopq> that place is called 6m
<daven> no he shouldn't...
<daven> he's a nit and thinks I check my monsters, my draws, and my air
<daven> he's scared
<daven> he has 90% fold to cbet and he's like 12-8
<daven> he's never betting except maybe a draw or AK
<daven> and c-c is fine
<iopq> then bet and let him fold a jack?
<daven> nope, he'll fold to my turn barrel instead
<iopq> 90% fold to cbet
<iopq> is top pair or better
<iopq> unless he only calls raises
<daven> and he has low pocket pairs way more than middle pair
<iopq> with pps
<oskar> (12:11:11 PM) daven: he has 90% fold to cbet and he's like 12-8
<daven> so value comes on the turn, if anywhere
<oskar> that can't be right
<iopq> in fact I think he still has top pair more than 15% of the time
<daven> stats are 13/8/1.8/33
<daven> vp/pfr/3-bet/steal
<iopq> what's his fold to cbet
<iopq> for real reals
<daven> and 33/33/90/88/350
<iopq> not for play play
<daven> fold to 3-bet/4-bet/c-bet/fold to c-bet/hands
<daven> those are his stats
<iopq> oh 350 hands
<daven> oskar, look up thedevonian for iopq
<daven> anyway, session over
<daven> i ran bang on ev for once, so ship the 3 buyins
<iopq> ok so let's split up your hands into ranges
<iopq> what's the top of your range, like hands you'd bet and continue to a raise
<daven> i don't value bet the flop against this guy
<oskar> (12:13:39 PM) daven: oskar, look up thedevonian for iopq
<iopq> on this flop
<oskar> haha
<daven> cos of his fold to c-bet
<oskar> rakeback pro
<daven> ducy?!?
<iopq> ok you have set of kings, you don't bet and you expect him to check behind, hit a diamond and stack you
<iopq> good thinking
<daven> exactly, my image against him is kinda lag 17-14 i guess
<oskar> he can't bet for value, and it's too close for a bluff
<daven> meh, he has a fd about never
<daven> start thinking ranges, and max-EV vs range, not fear vs a tiny part of range
<iopq> so you basically
<daven> and he won't stack me
<iopq> have NO hand that you will cbet against him
<iopq> other than as a bluff
<daven> got it
<daven> i don't need to balance against him
<iopq> ok say he has bottom set and you have top set
<iopq> turn is a diamond
<daven> and the 99 hand just proves that I don't cbet as a bluff if he takes a note
<iopq> can you stack him?
<daven> he doesn't check 88 behind
<iopq> no, he bets it and what do you c/r
<iopq> your top set?
<daven> on that flop
<daven> sure, and he reads mix nuts/draws cos it's uber-draw land
<iopq> or do you call
<daven> and he stacks
<iopq> so you play the top of your range with a c/r on the flop
<iopq> that means slightly weaker hands you're going to c/c?
<daven> or check-fold, think about how that kind of player plays
<iopq> well 99 is a lot weaker
<iopq> ok, do you c/f AK in this spot
<daven> wtf?
<iopq> or is that strong enough to c/r
<daven> i c-c
<iopq> well that's what I was asking
<iopq> and you said you could c/f slightly weaker hands
<iopq> ok, now hands that are too weak to c/c
<iopq> what are you going to do with them
<daven> 22-66
<iopq> c/f or b/f?
<daven> c/f or b/f
<daven> 89s
<iopq> I'm asking you, are you b/fing against this player or c/fing
<daven> I think I c-f none of my range here
<daven> I bet-fold air
<daven> I c-c showdown value vs his bet when checked to range, that and draws
<daven> I c-r monsters
<daven> and monster draws
<iopq> I think you can have a c/f range that is stronger than your b/f range if you think you're going to show your hand down
<iopq> if it's good
<iopq> and you think he won't bluff you
<iopq> so he will bet a better hand
<iopq> and try to show down worse
<iopq> so actually I'd like to c/f 99 here
<iopq> and b/f 89
<iopq> because 89 is kind of a semi-bluff
<iopq> and can improve over a bigger pair
<iopq> like TT or 99
<daven> he's folding TT
<daven> and 99
<daven> get it?
<daven> 90% fold to cbet
$0.5/$1 No Limit Holdem
7 players
Converted at weaktight.com
Stacks:
Hero (UTG) ($126.00)
UTG+1 ($138.00)
MP ($134.00)
CO ($52.50)
BTN ($17.50)
SB ($19.00)
BB ($22.00)
Pre-flop: ($1.50, 7 players) Hero is UTG :9c: :9s:
Hero raises to $3.50, 2 folds, CO calls $3.50, 3 folds
Flop: :jd: :kd: :8s: ($8.50, 2 players)
Hero checks, CO checks
Turn: :9d: ($8.50, 2 players)
Hero bets $7, CO calls $7
River: :6c: ($22.50, 2 players)
Hero bets $14,
