Help playing AA

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05-09-2009, 07:02 PM
Kbryce23

Help playing AA

Don't really have any reads. At the time stats were 30/7 over 20 hands.

Full Tilt Pot-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (7 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP1 ($27.18)
MP2 ($9.15)
Hero (CO) ($34.60)
Button ($9.04)
SB ($39.82)
BB ($63.39)
UTG ($30.45)

Preflop: Hero is CO with Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif
1 fold, MP1 calls $0.25, MP2 calls $0.25, Hero bets $1.35, 3 folds, MP1 calls $1.10, MP2 calls $1.10

Flop: ($4.40) 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 3http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (3 players)
MP1 checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets $3, MP1 raises to $6, 1 fold, Hero calls $3

Turn: ($16.40) 3http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players)
MP1 bets $4, Hero calls $4

River: ($24.40) 7http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)
MP1 bets $15.83 (All-In), Hero?
05-09-2009, 07:58 PM
poker_pup

I'd definitely fold the river, because I think you were beat on the flop.

Check raises at this level generally mean TPTK (or a pocket overpair) is beat.
05-09-2009, 08:05 PM
sim92

Quote:

Originally Posted by poker_pup

I'd definitely fold the river, because I think you were beat on the flop.

Check raises at this level generally mean TPTK (or a pocket overpair) is beat.

Hard really but looks like the player hit a set , so I'd maybe folded there.
05-10-2009, 01:58 AM
T-Rex

snap call so easy
05-10-2009, 02:33 AM
AFchung

i might call here. the 3 on the turn means he at least can't have a set of 3's. also he might be shoving with busted diamonds or 78
05-10-2009, 02:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AFchung

i might call here. the 3 on the turn means he at least can't have a set of 3's. also he might be shoving with busted diamonds or 78

no, but he could still have quad trays, set of fours, set of eights, 34

I'd say his minraise on the flop is either a flush draw or something that has you crushed
are you ready to call off your stack hoping to pick off a bluff?
05-10-2009, 12:26 PM
IncaMabel

Quote:

Originally Posted by iopq

Quote:

Originally Posted by AFchung

i might call here. the 3 on the turn means he at least can't have a set of 3's. also he might be shoving with busted diamonds or 78

no, but he could still have quad trays, set of fours, set of eights, 34

I'd say his minraise on the flop is either a flush draw or something that has you crushed
are you ready to call off your stack hoping to pick off a bluff?

I would actualy call on this. I simply think he as missed is Flush and you are taking out the posibily of the sets of 3s or the Quads!
05-10-2009, 01:20 PM
pushit

i would fold it. dont get too committed with Ace Ace
05-10-2009, 01:55 PM
kmind

I probably go ahead and shove flop assuming he can have a FD or A8. On the turn I got ahead and raise allin. You're going to lose a lot to full houses but still.
05-11-2009, 02:36 PM
dtamburin

I'm folding this on the flop. I agree the check-raise here is telling.
He is certainly saying he doesn't fear TPTK, I'd say he called PF with a pocket pair, looks like he tried to limp it in then decided to call when you bet it.
Only other thing I can see is some sort of crazy bluff, but I'm not risking my stack on that.
05-11-2009, 03:15 PM
deacon_bluez

I agree with shoving the turn (might have even done it on the flop) to shut down draws.
05-11-2009, 03:29 PM
dragntail

Quote:

Originally Posted by dtamburin

I'm folding this on the flop. I agree the check-raise here is telling.
He is certainly saying he doesn't fear TPTK, I'd say he called PF with a pocket pair, looks like he tried to limp it in then decided to call when you bet it.
Only other thing I can see is some sort of crazy bluff, but I'm not risking my stack on that.

Looking at his stats, a check call pre here is almost always a speculative hand like small pairs or SC. Looks like he's hit a set on the flop, or a strong draw. If you run a stove calculation based on his likely range, you get:

Board: 8d 3d 4s
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 36.667% 36.67% 00.00% 6171 0.00 { AdAs }
Hand 1: 63.333% 63.33% 00.00% 10659 0.00 { 88, 44-33, QdTd, JdTd, Jd9d, Td9d, 9d7d, 7d6d, 7d5d, 6d5d }

So you're not in great shape if you can put him on this range. However, you are almost getting 4.5-1 to call his raise... I would have called his raise and re-eval the turn, just as played. On the turn:

Board: 8d 3d 4s 3s
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 43.636% 43.64% 00.00% 288 0.00 { AdAs }
Hand 1: 56.364% 56.36% 00.00% 372 0.00 { 88, 44-33, QdTd, JdTd, Jd9d, Td9d, 9d7d, 7d6d, 7d5d, 6d5d }

You actually improve against his range here, (mainly because all his draws lose equity) and again, you've got mental odds, so I would lean on calling. Though I would now be leaning towards the suspicion that he had hit a set on the flop - I've rarely seen draws being played this way on the turn.

On the river, I think I would have folded here. It's a pretty brave bluff if he has a busted draw.
05-11-2009, 03:56 PM
Poker Orifice

Quote:

Originally Posted by IncaMabel

Quote:

Originally Posted by iopq

Quote:

Originally Posted by AFchung

i might call here. the 3 on the turn means he at least can't have a set of 3's. also he might be shoving with busted diamonds or 78

no, but he could still have quad trays, set of fours, set of eights, 34

I'd say his minraise on the flop is either a flush draw or something that has you crushed
are you ready to call off your stack hoping to pick off a bluff?

I would actualy call on this. I simply think he as missed is Flush and you are taking out the posibily of the sets of 3s or the Quads!

What range are we putting him on that could possibly have him on a set of 3's???

I'd say his minraise on the flop is either a flush draw or something that has you crushed
are you ready to call off your stack hoping to pick off a bluff?
Agreed 100%!!
05-11-2009, 06:01 PM
ArcadianRock

Am I the only one who thinks that his PF raise was too small?
05-11-2009, 06:25 PM
Kbryce23

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArcadianRock

Am I the only one who thinks that his PF raise was too small?

Its pot limit, which I dont really play unless I find a good table.
05-12-2009, 02:46 AM
AFchung

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArcadianRock

Am I the only one who thinks that his PF raise was too small?

PLHE i think he just hit the pot button on full tilt
05-12-2009, 02:51 AM
bjsaust

If I got to river this way I'd call. Readless I probably 3b flop and get it in. He has a lot of hands we beat in his range still (although I'm not surprised if we're behind).
05-13-2009, 11:08 AM
Crusher10

A lot of players ar not good enough on that level to check raise you if its a bluff. Fold
05-13-2009, 11:34 AM
Warpe

Quote:

Originally Posted by bjsaust

If I got to river this way I'd call. Readless I probably 3b flop and get it in. He has a lot of hands we beat in his range still (although I'm not surprised if we're behind).

+1

Your hand is under-repped and you see donks playing overpairs this way a lot at these stakes. I ship it in and don't feel bad about it.
05-13-2009, 11:41 AM
Monty3038

Re: Help playing AA

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kbryce23

Don't really have any reads. At the time stats were 30/7 over 20 hands.

Full Tilt Pot-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (7 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP1 ($27.18)
MP2 ($9.15)
Hero (CO) ($34.60)
Button ($9.04)
SB ($39.82)
BB ($63.39)
UTG ($30.45)

Preflop: Hero is CO with Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif
1 fold, MP1 calls $0.25, MP2 calls $0.25, Hero bets $1.35, 3 folds, MP1 calls $1.10, MP2 calls $1.10

Flop: ($4.40) 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 3http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (3 players)
MP1 checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets $3, MP1 raises to $6, 1 fold, Hero calls $3

Turn: ($16.40) 3http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players)
MP1 bets $4, Hero calls $4

River: ($24.40) 7http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)
MP1 bets $15.83 (All-In), Hero?

I've seen a few responses that attempt to actually put MP1 on a range here... I'm still working on this skill myself and am having a hard time putting them on 33 or 44 here pre flop. It is in their range, but would they limp it?

I'm not a 25nl player, so maybe that affects it, but isn't common logic (ok, I'm assuming villian has common logic) that you need to protect your small pairs in EP by playing them a little more aggressively than open limping... of course I suppose table image has a big factor too...

Ah well, in essence I have nothing major to add to the discussion, but I'm really having a hard time ruling out a busted flush draw here... they are already pretty well committed and may think OP's image lends him to tag along... maybe we have to consider that as well...
05-13-2009, 09:24 PM

well no, the common knowledge at NL25 is lol let's limp and flop a set and stack someone
05-14-2009, 08:15 AM
Monty3038

Quote:

Originally Posted by iopq

well no, the common knowledge at NL25 is lol let's limp and flop a set and stack someone

Ok, I see this, but is the common player at 25nl then capable of check-raising the flop when the set hits? And also check raising min-raise?

I'm just asking, not being sarcastic... I don't see this too often... but I'm only casually playing now.
05-14-2009, 08:21 AM
Luco

Yes and yes
05-14-2009, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monty3038

Quote:

Originally Posted by iopq

well no, the common knowledge at NL25 is lol let's limp and flop a set and stack someone

Ok, I see this, but is the common player at 25nl then capable of check-raising the flop when the set hits? And also check raising min-raise?

I'm just asking, not being sarcastic... I don't see this too often... but I'm only casually playing now.

like check/minraise is like almost always a set or two pair
less likely hand: strong draw
almost never: air
05-14-2009, 08:42 AM
Luco

It's like a value raise but they don't want to scare you off. It's a good indicator of a strong hand.
05-14-2009, 11:04 AM
encantado_si

this flop was very dangerous, but you had to do the continue raise, but if I have been you, i'd fold in the turn
05-14-2009, 11:57 AM
RFalcao2

I think that we must play very hard on the pre-flop to garanty that the standing players have a high game, and put out the marginal hands and after...all in! Iff we play soft in the beggining, there always a chance that the flop bring a good game for the smallest hands!
sorry my english :P
05-14-2009, 07:43 PM
Galiana

you definetly played AA like a Fish.
The way u have to play rockets is different,Depend on your position,but generally u have to raise x4 blind+ 1 per any player that have called before you.
Maybe u can think,ok,but if they fold, I wont get a good profit off my AA. Ur right u wont get a good profit,but u have to think,that if a player have nice cards,he will call,and if hes got shitty cards,he will fold.
but obviously if u make it so cheap.. a low card player that calls,could match on the flop,and fuck up ur AA,and if there are high cards on the flop,he will fold,so the profit will be as low as if u had raised on preflop.
To sum up.. U need to be agressive on preflop,its preferable to win a small pot,than get in troubles and lose part of your stack.
05-14-2009, 09:47 PM
Sanches2000

having AA, the best playing - is all - in , with 1 or 2 players... imho
other way - is another A on flop...
05-16-2009, 02:14 PM
horsefaceman

its a horrible board, id make the fold and be very pissed off
05-19-2009, 04:29 AM
helpme2win$

hate to fold aces but onthe other hand they do get beat think he caught a set should of put a bigger preflop bet imo
05-19-2009, 08:46 AM
killerkebab

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galiana

you definetly played AA like a Fish.
The way u have to play rockets is different,Depend on your position,but generally u have to raise x4 blind+ 1 per any player that have called before you.
Maybe u can think,ok,but if they fold, I wont get a good profit off my AA. Ur right u wont get a good profit,but u have to think,that if a player have nice cards,he will call,and if hes got shitty cards,he will fold.
but obviously if u make it so cheap.. a low card player that calls,could match on the flop,and fuck up ur AA,and if there are high cards on the flop,he will fold,so the profit will be as low as if u had raised on preflop.
To sum up.. U need to be agressive on preflop,its preferable to win a small pot,than get in troubles and lose part of your stack.

Maybe instead of this you can think 'all right its pot limit, so I can't raise more than the pot, and maybe I could read a thread once in a while, or even the hand history, or maybe take my spacebar to the repairman' instead :)
05-19-2009, 09:17 AM
nice_aiau

Quote:

Originally Posted by killerkebab

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galiana

you definetly played AA like a Fish.
The way u have to play rockets is different,Depend on your position,but generally u have to raise x4 blind+ 1 per any player that have called before you.
Maybe u can think,ok,but if they fold, I wont get a good profit off my AA. Ur right u wont get a good profit,but u have to think,that if a player have nice cards,he will call,and if hes got shitty cards,he will fold.
but obviously if u make it so cheap.. a low card player that calls,could match on the flop,and fuck up ur AA,and if there are high cards on the flop,he will fold,so the profit will be as low as if u had raised on preflop.
To sum up.. U need to be agressive on preflop,its preferable to win a small pot,than get in troubles and lose part of your stack.

Maybe instead of this you can think 'all right its pot limit, so I can't raise more than the pot, and maybe I could read a thread once in a while, or even the hand history, or maybe take my spacebar to the repairman' instead :)

Ohhh snap!
05-19-2009, 11:30 AM
GatorJH

normally I would agree with IOPQ here, but villains bet sizing makes this look like a busted draw or overpair/pair kind of hand.
05-19-2009, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GatorJH

normally I would agree with IOPQ here, but villains bet sizing makes this look like a busted draw or overpair/pair kind of hand.

honestly I think calling shoves from fish is -EV especially when 56 gets there on the river which is the only oesd possible on the flop

I'd rather shove myself on the flop or the turn
05-19-2009, 01:33 PM
bigspenda73

nobody folds the fwop?
05-19-2009, 02:14 PM
Extremophile

A reraise on the flop would have been good to get more info. See what he does to a min-reraise. If he pushes then you may think of calling or folding. Tough call; he might have slow played pocket Ks preflop. Calling all in on the flop would have been easier if you put him on drawing hands, but the river card sucks.

Once you made your decision if you decide to fold then you can pay 15 bucks just to see if your decision is correct.
05-19-2009, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigspenda73

nobody folds the fwop?

very tempting, but sometimes a minraise on the flop is a draw
05-19-2009, 10:13 PM
dafu

Personally I would shove preflop seen them get cracked too many times.