I'm Losing It

I've been resisting crying out about my downturn, but this day has been too much and I need some counselling. Excuses if it's all been heard before, because it has, but I just need a bit of release.

Some of you will know that I've had a very successful road from $2 NL to $10 NL and a few short weeks ago I pushed into the $25 NL range and had my 'roll up to around 580 bucks.

That went badly after a few days, and at around 500 bucks I moved back down to $10 NL. Now, for the last five or six thousand hands, not much has been happening. I keep grinding away and win a little here and there but lose it all in one fell swoop, more or less staying even.

Today, the crash came, however. I lost 40 bucks today over two sessions. The thing was, I was getting good cards. I didn't go out with crap. I wasn't on tilt. I just got setted and straighted and destacked three and a bit times in the process.

Before tonight, though, I just couldn't win any big pots. I think about two destackings in the five or six (plus another one thousand beomg processed in PT as I type) thousand hands. But I would always get destacked. It started to prey on my psyche that.

Sure some of them were my stupid fault, but not all. Not by a long shot.

I'm really depressed about all this. I'm getting superstitious even. It seems that my move to the UK has brought me bad luck. Since I've been here, everything has been going downhill with my results.

As much as some guys here will hate when I say this, trying to be more aggressive has had nothing but disasterous consequences for me. I cannot get past it. Every time I raise and get callers, now I'm thinking "Oh, he's got a set, or a straight." I'm losing my confidence, my spirit, my mind.

I still like playing, dont' get me wrong, but I don't know what is happening. I've had a bad run before of about 3,000 hands, but this is now getting into the upper half of 10,000 hands and the money loss is getting significant, though I'm still well up on my 150 buck starting 'roll.

Is this just a really bad run? Am I trying to hard? Should I change my game, go back to limit for a while? I don't know, but I am definitely in a spiral now.

Words of solace or a virutal kick in the ass would be welcome.

I'm done now.

Jigs

How many hands have you played total? Ive only played about 30k or so of $10nl and $25nl combined, so I cant really relate with the long downswings, my worst was 4k of breakeven play, some due to bad play, some due to the bad side of variance, I bet yours is a combination of the two as well.

Im no expert by any means, but have a decent grasp of how to win at the lower levels, how about you send me [andyakb AT gmail DOT com] your top 25 winning hands and your top 25 losing hands and I will look over them and comment on them and send them back to you?

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Originally Posted by Jiggus

As much as some guys here will hate when I say this, trying to be more aggressive has had nothing but disasterous consequences for me.

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You might be confusing 'aggressive' with 'loose'. Take a break, hit the reset button and get back to basic ABC, tight is right poker. At your stakes, that's all you need.

I agree whole-heartedly with Warpe. Many players read here about aggression and winning. Hyper-Taggs and Hyper-Laggs don't win much at lower limits because it isn't necessary.

I would suggest taking 4-5 days off, and review your play in your head. Bad runs start, but they have a tendency to bring any small leaks to the surface where they will cost you dearly. If you absolutely can't take a few days off (like me, but I'm a diehard) try going back to ABC poker like Warpe suggested and play tighter than a baby turtle's anus.

Every player goes through the space your in right now, it's crucial to the development of your game that you learn to play a bad run without letting it alter your play. If you can get through this you will be able to break the plateau your on, which sounds to me like a mental fortitude issue.

Jiggs, bear in mind that I've played very few hands with you (I just started on Paradise a week or so ago, at the $10NL), but from what I've seen (and I'll have to check my notes at home) all you did was fold. (At most I have 100 hands that you're in and I don't have tracker).

When I first moved to $10NL (after the beginner period ended at Party), I was really struggling, and steadily going down. While working off the bonus I was essentially breaking even (with the bonus). Then I started playing scared, then I realized, "This just isn't working". I noticed that I had started playing different types of hands in different positions, and really didn't know what I was doing, or why. Even more frustrating was that other people would constently be paid off by idiots, while I just couldn't get a nibble. I don't know what, exactly, I did, but I started playing rediculously tight, and more aggressive, and it worked.

I stopped trying to build pots where I'm not sure I'm ahead. I stopped throwing out c-bets without a reason. I'm fine checking down hands w TPTK or the non-nuts on a flush/draw heavy board. If I'm in the sb/bb and I don't flop 2pair or an OESD I fold. If I don't have a read on someone and they come after me aggressively, I'll fold (w/o a very strong hand). If I have KK and the flop comes A high I'm not going to try and get the Ax guy off his hand. On the other hand, I do act more aggressively with PP especially on garbage flops. Do I lose value when I flop a set sometimes? I'm sure I do. I also started really thinking when I have hands like AK/AQ/KQ about what I should do. Finally, if I have a hand like 83 in the BB and the flop is 33Q, I'll be aggressive, but not reckless.

I'm sure that those who are more expereinced will see numerous flaws in my "strategey" for now, so take it with a grain of salt.

FWIW, I hope that helps.

Good luck.

Yorib

Play solid poker, you'll make it back and be a better player when you get there! Not only in your standard game but you will be better prepared mentally for the swings of this persuit.

With a solid game the next big winning session is a statistical inevitability, although at times it can seem like it is impossable to make any $$.

My best advice is to take a break and dont chase loses by moving up a limit or LAGGING/tilting unnecessarily.

When you "lose it", ALWAYS go back to tight ABC poker until you regain your confidence.

And to get everything right in poker is a really delicate balance. I love to play Lagg but when I lose focus money goes down the drain so quickly. There's a fine line between being a good Lagg and a donk maniac, between a good Tagg and a nit, between a floater and a calling station, etc.

Thanks guys.

I knew what I'd hear, but it's still nice to hear it and talk about it. I don't have anyone else to talk about poker with.

Thing is, after my failed attempt at $25 NL I did go back to playing my basic game. At least I thought I did. My basic game, by the way, is solidly rooted in Aok's 19 hand starting method. It's what took me from being a loser to being a winner, especially at the 2 and 10 dollar tables.

Last night, I did make some stupid calls, but one that really burned me was an AK which I played very aggressively. Normally, I hate that hand, and play it quite cautiously. But listen, earlier yesterday morning, someone called my all in with AK -- I had AA -- and he flopped a set of kings, so I figured that I'd break my own rule of NOT calling or going all in with AK and what happens? Someone wins with AA in the hole. It's just been like that for sooooo long now.

I cannot take a break. I got myself up at 0530 to play some more afore I leave for work.

Yorib, I'll look out for you, but yeah, I am pretty tight. I see on average about 18% of the flops. Yes, I have loosened up a bit, but only where the game suits it. Of course, it only takes a couple of bad decisions to lose a lot o f money and it can take a lot of patience and the many correct decisions to win but a few small pots. That's poker.

And it doesn't help when you see morons just calling against the odds hoping to flop that flush draw, and they do to take half your stack. C'est la vie.

How many hands have I played? Well, about 10,000 before I got PT, I reckon, and I don't know how many in Sit n' Go's and tournies, but maybe another thousand there, plus if I include all my NL PT hands, even those from before I became a disciple of Aok, then you can add just a hair of 40,000 hands to that mix. Then about 3000 limit PT hands.

So, not a million, but a little bit more than a hundred.

OK, here it goes, back to the trenches.

This is a good example of what some call the newbie circle of death. I call it accumulated toxins.

Someone plays strong, consistent poker. Then they have a string of bad luck or even just flat cards or no callers with their good cards. Anyway their expectations of CONTINUED AND UNHINDERED improvements are dashed. In return they question their basic game, get frustrated, and lose patience. This loss of paitience comes in 3 ways:
1. They get overly agressive even with good cards
2. They start calling with good hands that are probably beat (like a pp with an overcard on the board).
3. They loosen their preflop requriements or start bluffing more.

This accelerates their loses and then they lose HOPE, lose INTERST, totally lose PATIENCE. And in essence lose FAITH. all because they had a bad string of suckouts or a bad string of flat cards.

TAKE 3 DAYS OFF. No poker. Clear the toxins. Only play stakes and games where you can play unhindered by emotional bullshit. If you can't do that after 3 days. I fyou have thoughts of fear, worry, impatience, etc. Then take the rest of the week off. You're only going to lose money if you play. ... You are ONLY going to LOSE MONEY if you play with this emotional state. Regardless of stakes or playing conditions.

Take a break. You don't need to play tighter. You need to take a break.

Jiggus, I agree with you 100%, but you need to remember that every hand is independent of the hand before it. Bad decisions (like calling an AI from a tight player with AK) are bad decisions regardless of how they've worked for, or against you.

You need to absolutely punish people on flush draws. Make solid bets on the flop and, if the turn misses, bet very hard. IF they hit their flush/straight and bet, don't call. Yes, I'm sure this is a "leak" at the higher limits, but I think it'll work out at the lower ones.

For instance , if I have 77 and the flop is 678s, I'll usually fire out a pot size bet which almost always takes it down. Were I to get reraised, I'd likely fold, unless the odds suggest otherwise.

I find myself losing the most money, not by being out kicked, or set over set, but by not beleiving my opponent had me beat. That and catching a hand (like 2pair or a low straight/flush) out of the big blind.

I've found (at Paradise) that, if you make a normal 4xbb bet with AK/AQ , the flop comes say J72r, you can almost always just check and everyone else will as well (or they'll toss out an irrelevant 2xbb bet.) It can be cheap to see all 5 cards, if you're willing to let it be. What you can also try (and has worked for me on occasion) is to just call with AK/AQ knowing that if the flop comes A/K/Q high you are in exceptional shape to build and take down a nice pot.

For my money, there's no better feeling than having AK/AQs having an A high flop with two in your suit and knowing that the other player is chasing the same flush.

Good luck.

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Originally Posted by Jiggus

Thanks guys.

I knew what I'd hear, but it's still nice to hear it and talk about it. I don't have anyone else to talk about poker with.

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Jiggus, you're obviously playing poker better than most of these guys that open with anything in any position and hold on to it too long.

Sure, you're making some some stupid, stupid mistakes. But that's not the reason you've made all those recent losses. Sure it contributes, but you're still better than many of your opponents: variance is playing its part (AA normally beats AK. You caught a bad one, it'll get better).

I think the thing to do is realise that money's gone. The fish that won it off you lost it the next day on some bonehead play and it's filtered it's way up to some better player and you'll probably never see it again.

So instead of thinking about how much you've lost, get back to playing good poker against weaker opponent. Try to stop making some of those lame mistakes which are costing you $0.50 here and there rather than worrying about the $25 you lost to the bad beat.

Keep making right decisions. Or a higher percentage of right decisions that your opponents and they have to give you their money eventually. It's a law of the universe.


There you go. I've had a bit of a downturn recently and no one to talk poker with, so this is what I ended up telling myself. (I didn't call myself Jiggus though).

Hope it helps :)

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Originally Posted by aokrongly

This is a good example of what some call the newbie circle of death. I call it accumulated toxins.

Someone plays strong, consistent poker. Then they have a string of bad luck or even just flat cards or no callers with their good cards. Anyway their expectations of CONTINUED AND UNHINDERED improvements are dashed. In return they question their basic game, get frustrated, and lose patience. This loss of paitience comes in 3 ways:
1. They get overly agressive even with good cards
2. They start calling with good hands that are probably beat (like a pp with an overcard on the board).
3. They loosen their preflop requriements or start bluffing more.

This accelerates their loses and then they lose HOPE, lose INTERST, totally lose PATIENCE. And in essence lose FAITH. all because they had a bad string of suckouts or a bad string of flat cards.

TAKE 3 DAYS OFF. No poker. Clear the toxins. Only play stakes and games where you can play unhindered by emotional bullshit. If you can't do that after 3 days. I fyou have thoughts of fear, worry, impatience, etc. Then take the rest of the week off. You're only going to lose money if you play. ... You are ONLY going to LOSE MONEY if you play with this emotional state. Regardless of stakes or playing conditions.

Take a break. You don't need to play tighter. You need to take a break.

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Ah, my mentor.

Of course, you're correct Mr. O'Krongly.

Just now, what happened? lost two more buy-ins. My KK, which I played quite normally, loses to some sap who called my PF raise with TQ suited. He flopped two pair and it stood up. Next hand, some other dude gets KK, and that stands up on a board of rags and he takes down 170 BB's.

Then in the BB, my shitty 52 off flops two pair. "Cool", think I. And bet. I bet again. Some moron keeps calling and lo and behold, he he's holding a straight 'cause he's one of those types who playe ANY goddamn ace.

I am now on the nearing 400 bucks and this has been the worst downswing of my poker career.

Tony, the only thing I haven't done is loosen my pre-flop starting requirements, and I don't feel I've lost my patience, however, I do feel that whatever I do, I'll lose, so this can't be good.

Play tighter? Man, you know that I play tight so I don't think I can get any tighter without becoming obvious.

But I will take a break, analyse my game and read more on this site. I've not been dropping by here enough of late, and this is a good chance to make ammends. Then maybe I'll play a bit of the old $2 game just for old times sake.

Jigs

P.S. I think it should just be called the "Circle of Death" since it seems to come up no matter how many hands one has played.

i am like 1ptbb/100 for the last 15k hands of 200nl.

Ya that sucks.

Have you read aok's Pyschology of Losing? I think it's the best poker article I've ever read on this topic. http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...poker-8435.htm (It's stickied but that's the link anyway)

After reading this it totally changed not only how I play poker but just how I think in general.

Another solution that I don't think's been mentioned - why not go back to some nice cheap easy SNGs? $5.50s, say, which aren';t utterly donkish but you'll still expect to win consistently.

The poker is different, you're more reliant on reads etc - the ABC poker that is getting you down in ring isn't going to win you SNGs - you canbe more creative and more psychological and it may well work. And if it doesn't - better to lose $25 through misjudged play than $25.

Hopefully it will help you enjoy poker again and remind you you're a good player. After a while you'll have the confidence to go back to ring with a fresh approach, your troubles put behind you. I've done it many times and it works, more or less, every time - it certainly de-stresses me.

when i'm dumping money I look at a few things.

First, I don't know how you can play tighter than 19 hands. It's just not practical.

Second, I remind myself to play "more carefully". That doesn't mean play timidly or scared. I means to not throw half my stack at KK because I haven't seen a good hand in a long time and am frustrated.

I think the most overlooked skill in poker is minimizing losses. Anybody can win hands. Total fish win big pots all the time, but they NEVER hold onto their money. They get loose, or irritated, or frustrated, or bored, or they are just idiots (right). So, play more carefully. "listen" to the betting. Don't assume that Everyone is an idiot and every raise is a bluff. Don't make that huge river bet that is only going to be called by a hand that beats you. Or don't make that min raise into someones min bet on the river when you think "did he hit that flush?" and then raise him only to have him push his stack in your face.

But, after a week at party i would say that there are better places to 19 hand - if that's what you want to do.

(everyone is going to say where, I know. I tell you what, why don't we have everyone go check out table stats at different NL ring sights and post them here. Be sure to see if they "pull back" uncalled bets before they calculate pot size. For instance, at Party if the pot is $3 on the turn and I make a $10 bet onthe river that makes everyone fold, it calls the pot a $13 pot - which it wasn't. It was a $3 pot.

I know an NL10 game that runs 61% preflop callers and 61xBB average pot size. What can you find?

I agree with the way party calls there pot $$"s. Its kind of annoying. I'm looking to move when my 45 days are up. If I can get my roll back to withdrawing amounts.( See my other posts on the distructiion of my BR) I've gone back to 5NL and the 19 SH's and either way I'm moving cause there is no micro on party and I haven't played a S&G since I moved my whole roll over from stars because of the rake.

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Originally Posted by Renton

i am like 1ptbb/100 for the last 15k hands of 200nl.

Ya that sucks.

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Well, it beats out losing I guess.. any idea what is causing this? Hitting really bad cards or has your game shifted?

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Originally Posted by jackvance

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Originally Posted by Renton

i am like 1ptbb/100 for the last 15k hands of 200nl.

Ya that sucks.

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Well, it beats out losing I guess.. any idea what is causing this? Hitting really bad cards or has your game shifted?

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little of both

I would take your 19 hand 'base' and try playing tighter out of position and looser in position. Playing 13% of your hands (total card combinations of all 19 hands) under the gun at a full table is just WAY TOO LOOSE, and I can't really see that as debatable. But in late position, if you are only playing these hands and nothing else regardless of the situation, you are throwing away value and the power of position, which is extraordinary.

I'd also try limping less and generally playing a more agressive game. I'm certainly not in the hardcore "raise or fold, (almost) never call (preflop and postflop), but in general, you should definately be betting and raising significantly more often then you are calling.

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Originally Posted by Lukie

I would take your 19 hand 'base' and try playing tighter out of position and looser in position. Playing 13% of your hands (total card combinations of all 19 hands) under the gun at a full table is just WAY TOO LOOSE, and I can't really see that as debatable. But in late position, if you are only playing these hands and nothing else regardless of the situation, you are throwing away value and the power of position, which is extraordinary.

I'd also try limping less and generally playing a more agressive game. I'm certainly not in the hardcore "raise or fold, (almost) never call (preflop and postflop), but in general, you should definately be betting and raising significantly more often then you are calling.

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I'm quoting Lukie, but I'd like to get back to some of the other replies as well.

Firstly, thanks guys for your time.

Secondly, I have really been obsessed by what's happened to my game and I've been thinking about it a lot, perhaps a bit too much. Constantly going over hands in my head. I think I've often portrayed myself to this group as an unthinking adherent to whatever Anthony O'K advises.

I'm not exactly like that. I actually do play differently depending on the table feel, but normally the 19 hands is a great base until you figure out the dynamics. So, I'm pretty much naturally following what you advise, Lukie. I'll drop my speculative hands if they don't hit the flop, of course. I have been starting to raise with pairs down to TT and I play AK, AQ somewhat erratically, in that sometimes, I'll raise, sometimes not, and I'll raise more from the blinds or late (only with AK) than from middle and early when I do raise. AK has been killing me of late.

What I think has been my major downfall, has been what Aok wrote just up a bit, and that is getting some good cards, a good hand even, and not paying enough attention to what the other player is doing with his raise. I can picture it clearly now. I've called a big raise, or pushed, only to see the cards turned and say to myself, "Shit, I didn't see that straight [flush]."

I have been playing solidly during this downturn for a couple or weeks. Not winning, but not really losing, but then my nerve broke and, as I've stated earlier in this post, after three or four stupid, thoughtless calls or all ins, I'm down 4 buy-ins. That's the problem, right there.

Biondino, I kind of like your advice. I've played a few sit n' go's and they're fun, and I'm around 40% in the money on the few I've played, so maybe that's a good idea. I am also considering returning to my "roots" and going back for some cheap limit action.

The most depressing thing about this sudden slip is that the last time I've played so stupidly I was playing whilst under the influence. Sometimes, it seems, it's not just alcohol that gets in the way of good judgement. This is a lesson in the psychology of the game, I think.

Hey Jiggus,

Glad you like the advice. "A change is as good as a break" is the appropriate proverb, I think?

If you can use the FTR chatroom during the daytime, I check in from time to time - I'm there now for example :)

Just to give my tuppence'th on hands played utg vs hands played on the button - in another poker discussion I listed the hands I play in both positions at a favourable tables, and they are as follows:

UTG: 22-AA, AK, AQ
Button: 22-AA, AK-AJ, KQ, KJ, QJ, all suited connectors, all suited gappers down to 57s, all unsuited connectors down to 56, Axs, + other more specualative hands/any two cards when folded to/limped to in the right conditions.

I think my VP is roughly 8% UTG and 28% on the button.

I think the other posts in here say everything I would have said except one thing,

I saw a few posts saying "go back to ABC poker when things arent going your way". Why leave ABC poker in the first place? I thought we weren't supposed to change our play because of variance or emotions?

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Originally Posted by Irisheyes

IWhy leave ABC poker in the first place? I thought we weren't supposed to change our play because of variance or emotions?

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Because ABC poker isn't optimal. Doing nothing but betting strong hands for value and folding when behind is less EV than playing a variable and opportunistic game.

Indeed, i would have thought the reason people 'stray' from ABC poker, is that they get more experience- having seen more hands, and can play the situation as opposed to the cards- or the basic 19 hands that people are suggesting, as they think- ''hmmm... its been folded to me here, i've got junk but a good sized raise and these last two guys will fold unless they have a monster...'' for example

All I can add to these great replies is; keep at it. After moving up from 25NL and .5/1 limit to 100NL and 3/6limit I nearly busted but kept at it, kept learning and kept my emotions out of it... always remeber that poker is a long term game, so don't let the short term affect you :)

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Originally Posted by Renton

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Originally Posted by Irisheyes

IWhy leave ABC poker in the first place? I thought we weren't supposed to change our play because of variance or emotions?

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Because ABC poker isn't optimal. Doing nothing but betting strong hands for value and folding when behind is less EV than playing a variable and opportunistic game.

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I'd argue that you'd want to play a variable and opportunistic game IN ORDER TO give yourself more (better?) opportunities to bet strong hands for value and fold when behind (and without odds to continue).

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Originally Posted by Lukie

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Originally Posted by Renton

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Originally Posted by Irisheyes

IWhy leave ABC poker in the first place? I thought we weren't supposed to change our play because of variance or emotions?

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Because ABC poker isn't optimal. Doing nothing but betting strong hands for value and folding when behind is less EV than playing a variable and opportunistic game.

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I'd argue that you'd want to play a variable and opportunistic game IN ORDER TO give yourself more (better?) opportunities to bet strong hands for value and fold when behind (and without odds to continue).

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When you play straight forward abc poker you can make a profit. When you expand on that you can increase your profit. When you expand on it in the wrong way you can destroy your bankroll. Thats why it is good to go back to abc if you think your game has gone wrong or you have lost confidence. It is a way of bringing you back out of the tailspin so you can start to rebuild a game that is hopefully more profitable than just straight abc 19 hand poker.

start posting some hands jiggus. its very hard to say if you this is varience, or tilt without seeing you play. Try and hang out in the chat room and get someone to watch you play. Im we can help you sort this out :)

Oh, btw; if you want to take the sting of variance (if that's what it is), trying bonus whoring... it helps so much in these situations!

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Originally Posted by Lukie

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Originally Posted by Renton

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Originally Posted by Irisheyes

IWhy leave ABC poker in the first place? I thought we weren't supposed to change our play because of variance or emotions?

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Because ABC poker isn't optimal. Doing nothing but betting strong hands for value and folding when behind is less EV than playing a variable and opportunistic game.

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I'd argue that you'd want to play a variable and opportunistic game IN ORDER TO give yourself more (better?) opportunities to bet strong hands for value and fold when behind (and without odds to continue).

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I think ABC poker is only 'the best thing to do" on very specific tables. It is, however, a great way to protect yourself from losing too much.

And I think it's both what Lukie and Renton say here.. like yesterday I raise QTs UTG for 6BB. I do this because I have plenty of fold equity here (those who think lower limits don't have fold equity plz come play at unibet :)). And when I get AA later and raise it 4-5BB, people will be more inclined to call me. But in this particular case I flopped a broadway straight and took a (half-)stack from AK who was on 2 pair.. So, yeah, both. If you play ABC poker you can never get a straight here.

The funny thing was that one guy in the chat was very talkative; It kinda gave me insight in how these people think. He kept referring to pot odds and general ABC-poker "rules", criticising others for "bad play". But man, he was so predictable I stole so many pots on him because I simply knew what he probably had and when he would fold etc. He did do well against the more unsuspecting folk at the table, mainly b/c he kept flopping straights and sets.

I don't think the actual downturn in cash flow is due to variance. I think that the variance part was the 5,000 hands where I was just spinning my wheels.

The major losses were caused by being blinded by emotions. In fact, I have an example from today of the reverse happening. I had some 85 off from the big blind, and by the end of the end I pushed all in. I thought that I had a full house. Thought is the key word here.

After the cards were turned my single opponent had AA and a full house of AA888. I won with four of a kind, but I didn't see the other 8! I was blinded again, but by over-confidence in the hand. Luckily it worked out, but I made a note of that happening.

But the chat room. I don't know about it. Never tried it. Is it new? Hmm,...

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Originally Posted by Jiggus

The major losses were caused by being blinded by emotions.

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I always take a break when I sense this nowadays. Whether it be overconfidence (too happy), frustration, annoyance,.. emotions are not welcome in my poker game so they indicate a break.

Yesterday I had a bit of a tilt (frustration) moment after facing suck-out number ten thousand - as can be seen in my "rant" post. If I had kept playing, I would have lost so much money there. I took a break, and played 3 hours when I had cooled off lateron. For 50ptBB/100. So I'm kinda proud how I managed to change this pattern of always blowing my earlier winnings when I got overrun with emotion and couldn't stop playing.

This has a 10x greater effect on my win/loss/BR than any sort of poker-specific knowledge..

I agree Jack. I have also improved in this area. This was the first time in many months that I didn't quit after two big losses. But anyhow, I did quit, and did take a relatively long break.

Too early to say how things are going, but I feel able to play again.

Though, I am tempted to try a bit of limit for a while. Maybe 10 hands or so, until I remember how boring it is. :-)

don't go to limit unless you plan on staying there. it's an entirely differnt game.

I'll correct that. If you're just playing ot have fun, then play whatever stikes your fancy. But if you want to get good at poker then you need to pick a speciality and get good at it 1st. Changing games won't help you get good. it will just distract you and burn time.

just my opinion.

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Originally Posted by aokrongly

don't go to limit unless you plan on staying there. it's an entirely differnt game.

I'll correct that. If you're just playing ot have fun, then play whatever stikes your fancy. But if you want to get good at poker then you need to pick a speciality and get good at it 1st. Changing games won't help you get good. it will just distract you and burn time.

just my opinion.

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I fully agree. I started with limit, as most people probably do, since most of the popular literature is geared towards that game. However, you set me on the road to NL back in November, but you probably don't remember that.

Novenber, 2005 is when I decided to follow your advice and stick to one game, one limit, and, in short, to start learning how to play poker.

Long ways to go, but it's going to be downturns like this which make me a better player.

But thanks to you, AOK, for setting me on the right road. I think that I would've quit if I didn't follow your advice.

The downturn seems to be over, by the way. I was able to make some lay downs that I wasn't making a few days ago. Time will tell.

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straight abc 19 hand poker.

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limping KJo UTG is straight abc pkoer?

open folding ATs OTB is straight abc poker?


no