Werewolf bitches!

I certainly like the idea of dead thread following wolf thread, but I feel it's important that the wolves have a say on this. Thanks to the wolves for playing ball there, I wouldn't have allowed that if a single wolf objected.

Anyways, since it's talkie talkie time....

I said mean things about BID in the dead thread, but I stand by them. I don't mean to be mean, but he puts himself in this position by continually lowering the bar with every game

I think the game was balanced, but possibly imba against the wolves. Five specials is a crapload. We all just died early. Basically every special dropped the ball this game except Luco. I had my reasons which I stated in the dead thread, but whatever

I liked the way the dead thread was run, and then after we knew all the roles we read the wolfchat

I wouldn't feel bad about losing to a Gabe Keith Gator team. That's incredibly tough to beat

It is great seeing Benny play again

I guess I don't have much more to say since I said a bunch in the dead thread

I dropped the ball too!

Originally Posted by OngBonga

I say this with absolute honesty benny, but I feel you're too used to our early games where it's vig/seer/angel vs powerless wolves. That is massively imbalanced towards the village, as you've exploited in the past. When seer claims d2 and fucks the wolves, that's lame. It's great for the seer, but shit for the wolves who can do nothing. Wolf roles are designed to counter this imbalance.

Maybe I gave them too much, but they didn't even use a single power of theirs. Village were screwed by excellent wolfing, sick special hunting, and general bad village play.

MVP is easily keith.

Village MVP is easily benny.

You're probably right, so I get the wolf roles. But the additional roles and the extra wolf was too much. Once bad vig shot and the village was in dire straights on Day 3.

Originally Posted by Luco

I dropped the ball too!

I think the lesson to learn from the Daven lynch is that sometimes lock villager status should be given when wagons behave a certain way. It wasn't your fault he died, nobody ITT pointed out vil-Aubrey could have easily cinched his death instead of her own, and this means he wasn't a wolf

Originally Posted by BennyLaRue

You're probably right, so I get the wolf roles. But the additional roles and the extra wolf was too much. Once bad vig shot and the village was in dire straights on Day 3.

I'll add this too: having the roles be unknown benefited the wolves large since they got to pull the watcher card and the village can't lie in return or else they could get caught in said lie and be lynch bait.

yeah but a live angel or a seer getting an extra lookup would have made a big difference to the balance....extra wolf in a way was a hindrance once there are confirmed players.

It was definitely my worst village game too. I was so close to attacking Gabe hardcore on Day 1 and protecting myself. Just a slight bit of difference....

I continually make myself lynchbait? Pretty sure I've been bolded once in the last two games. Time to pick up your game.

You're probably right, so I get the wolf roles. But the additional roles and the extra wolf was too much. Once bad vig shot and the village was in dire straights on Day 3.

Yeah for this reason I think bulletproof was a mistake. But other than that I'm happy.

I don't think it makes any difference anyway. Wolves were all effectively powerless, simply because they took the specials out so fast that their powers became redundant.

fwiw, drew's watcher claim is insane. That role I threw into the last game, and I quickly realised just how strong it is. Hoopy explained precisely why that role is too much for the village. I think a tracker claim would've been better, but wolves were worried village had a tracker so I can see why that wasn't suggested.

I asked the wolves to nominate a wolf to enact the kill just to keep them guessing about village powers.

Originally Posted by BankItDrew

I continually make myself lynchbait? Pretty sure I've been bolded once in the last two games. Time to pick up your game.

wp

People think you're hard to read. I don't. I think you played well drew, and your claim was well presented. But had I been alive, I think it fails because I'm not believing village have a watcher, seer and masons. And you're gonna need to up your game when I'm around, because having played wolf with you, and now modded a wolf game of yours, I think I have a solid read on you. We'll see...

Fwiw I certainly felt unneeded by my team. They didn't do that on purpose, they were all just so damn good. Congrats wolves!

Thanks for the compliment, guy.

gg guys.

I was sorely tempted to post that I didn't think there were any wolves toward the end of day 1. I was pretty well handled. Gabe judo'ed me with all of my reads and I just never got the fog of war out of my head.

Originally Posted by GatorJH

My worst game as a wolf in a long time but honestly I am tired of rolling wolf. Four games in a row now.

I did seriously consider giving you vanilla and rolling again to give a vanilla your wolf role, but I didn't feel that was right. Plus I was excited by the team, I can't deny that. But I'll always accept first roll because not doing so is bad modding.

Originally Posted by OngBonga

wp

People think you're hard to read. I don't. I think you played well drew, and your claim was well presented. But had I been alive, I think it fails because I'm not believing village have a watcher, seer and masons. And you're gonna need to up your game when I'm around, because having played wolf with you, and now modded a wolf game of yours, I think I have a solid read on you. We'll see...

I agree that the village should have figured out it was a ruse. The only way for the watcher to know "who" visited jv was for the wolves to have to nominate someone for the kill. If you follow that the wolves would send the wolfiest person to do the kill which should have been me, not Hoopy.

Originally Posted by GatorJH

I agree that the village should have figured out it was a ruse. The only way for the watcher to know "who" visited jv was for the wolves to have to nominate someone for the kill. If you follow that the wolves would send the wolfiest person to do the kill which should have been me, not Hoopy.

This is true, but I doubt even I would've picked up on that. I mean if hoopy was the killer, it surely implies that anyone who appears wolfier than him is actually a villager. I'd have been focussed entirely on the power of the watcher role and very likely missed the tactical aspect of the choice of killer.

It worked because of the persona BID has created

But now we know what his agenda is, and he'll either have to up his game or pay for it

GG everyone and thanks for modding MR. ong

i think its a real thing that replacements are much less likely to be wolves, because the person who is getting replaced has a non 0 % to see their PM/email and always play if they are a wolf. i dont have a good idea to fix that though, but in general i thought people should not have been suspicious of benny nearly as much as everyone else. some of the villagers made some great cases that, as a a wolf, i could see very sharp logic in. but fortunately the wolves overwhelmed the innocents

also this makes it like 0/20+ that i make it to the end of the game

Very strong wolf play, especially gabe. He was seered but upon rereading he really played the village very well. And Keith's made-up battle with gabe, that's next level play we rarely do.

I think the game was reasonably balanced.

I wanna be a mason

Thanks for modding Ong!

You're sick keith, like how the fuck can you be a wolf here?

Mind blown.

Well played wolfies.

yeah thanks for modding mr wrongbonga. great jawb

yeah , i bet village were expecting to read the wolf thread and see that it was planned ...it just emerged without planning . also from my side of things JV and wuf said that they picked up some tells from early game play .....bear in mind though that i was alpha , i was trying to get myself seered but without getting lynched. dead thread claiming to have wolves figured out however is a bit ott given all the hints andd confirmed wolves that ong gave you.remember that the village don't have that sort of confirmation until the lynch is done etc.

It's funny, gabe played an amazing team game and a pretty bad individual game. I wasn't impressed to begin with, but that's because I could see how differently he was playing. But he was expert when it came to not leaving a great stinking trail, his interaction with fellow wolves top class.

As for replacements, it depends a great deal on the person who has replaced out. In this case, it truly was null, because chippie was not site active. It's very likely he didn't even see his role pm, or the warnings I gave him that he was gonna get modkilled/reaplced. So he totally could have been a wolf.

Also, I've replaced into a scum role at mafiascum, and see it happen a lot. Some people just do not have the time they thought they would have.

But in some cases, yeah it's gonna be alignment indicative. If I was absolutely certain that chippie only ever flakes as a villager, I would've just modkilled him because it's not fair to have a cleared villager on that basis. I was happy to see that he hadn't posted since roles were assigned, because it gave me grounds to post in the thread and ensure benny was not given too much villager cred simply for replacing a flaker.

I won't be accepting chippie into any future game I mod unless he convinces me that he's actually going to take part. If he has a good reason for disappearing, fair enough, but I didn't get a reply off him.

Originally Posted by Keith

dead thread claiming to have wolves figured out however is a bit ott given all the hints andd confirmed wolves that ong gave you.remember that the village don't have that sort of confirmation until the lynch is done etc.

That's definitely true. On the flip side, of the six people I strongly considered wolves before Ong confirmed anything, three were wolves

Just let me keep the belief that I would have figured it all out. It makes me feel better

actually .....day length i much prefer shorter days wolf or villager .....this game just died at stages and i think some people did lose track/interest as a result.

Yeah the length of days is a funny issue. I mean in theory longer days should be better for the village, because more time and more chat means more mistakes from wolves. But when the game activity drops in the middle, it does indeed indicate that people are just waiting now for a lynch.

24 hours for nights is bang on, and night chat seems to be working nicely.

Weird thing was that Chip was active after the game started and before I replaced him. Whether he saw the thread, who knows, but I did note the activity because youneverknow.

Shorter days, please. There's a limit to how much new information there is to extract in a day.

Weird thing was that Chip was active after the game started and before I replaced him. Whether he saw the thread, who knows, but I did note the activity because youneverknow.

He was? Well in which case he probably got his role pm, even if he didn't view the thread. Yeah chippie is blacklisted from my future games.

Originally Posted by GatorJH

I agree that the village should have figured out it was a ruse. The only way for the watcher to know "who" visited jv was for the wolves to have to nominate someone for the kill. If you follow that the wolves would send the wolfiest person to do the kill which should have been me, not Hoopy.

Heh obvious point against drew in retrospect. Did you actually plan to have him fake out?

As wuf said in the dead thread if I'd thrown everything at drew I could have made him crack, but keith's attacks were keeping me off balance.

pity we couldn't get the votes last night when you'd given up . today was just a case of waiting for people to come online

Originally Posted by Hoopy

Heh obvious point against drew in retrospect. Did you actually plan to have him fake out?

As wuf said in the dead thread if I'd thrown everything at drew I could have made him crack, but keith's attacks were keeping me off balance.

Yeah, we briefly thought about me outing as the watcher but keith was right in that I would get more scrutiny over the role than BiD did. Plus keith and I could run cover for him pretty well.

It's always the wolves vying for longer days to keep the moral high ground!

Originally Posted by OngBonga

It's funny, gabe played an amazing team game and a pretty bad individual game. I wasn't impressed to begin with, but that's because I could see how differently he was playing.

A lot of people did notice it too but it's still so hard to get him lynched.

And gabe keeping up that luco had made a mistake even after luco was revealed seer made me chuckle.

Nice game ongie.

My thoughts on the game are as follows:

Balance - Ong, Conceptually I agree that having Mason's balances out the power dramatically but that is where you have players who are familiar with the role and know how to use it's power. It's a good thing I got to see it in action but am still not sure I could do the role justice. I also completely agree that wolves got VERY lucky in early game that helped setup the win. We binked angel n1 and vig n2 who also happened to take out the seers n1 lookup. Mason's had to out day 1 and seer outed day 3 with only 1 solid lookup.

Hoopy, I can't figure out how people thought you were a wolf. I had a very hard time pointing to things you did as wolfy.

The "watcher" play definitely had a chance to backfire just due to numbers. Taking BID out of my suspect list meant I had to put Benny in it. I played the FPS card of both being wolves just because I felt like I needed to look more wolfish than normal to protect BID and keith in that spot.

Benny, you are an excellent villager you just need to force your reads on the village more than you do.

Aubrey, sorry about the lynch and yes your reaction this game was very different than when you were a wolf. I needed to get rid of you because once people really noticed that you would be a lock villager and that would have been bad for us.

I think it is funny that people disregarded my analysis on BID as I think I nailed why he could have been a wolf. They just got lost in his analysis among everyone else's.

Originally Posted by BennyLaRue

I'm ok with both bigred and Gator being wolves, although I do have to go through Gator's posts again. His long post yesterday was vapid. Hoopy, you're the one I'm the least confident in. You're a great wolf if you are one.

My problem is this - for you to be a villager, it means BID or Keith have to be a wolf. I really can't see a BID wolf going after Gabe the way he did. If Keith is a wolf, he's doing an amazing job. The only real mark against him is that he hasn't been here.

lol

Force those reads on people!

If you do you force the villagers to defend themselves which, in turn, points out the wolves.

Originally Posted by jackvance

Force those reads on people!

I'm Canadian. It's against my very nature.

Originally Posted by GatorJH

If you do you force the villagers to defend themselves which, in turn, points out the wolves.

That's totally wolf gator talking!

i love playing werewolf

are there some other forum games we could play that are this interesting ?

also worth mentioning that i wouldnt enjoy it as much if i wasnt playing people i know and like and am familiar with

Originally Posted by gabe

also worth mentioning that i wouldnt enjoy it as much if i wasnt playing people i know and like and am familiar with

yeah from the sounds of it i have zero desire to play mafiascum games

I enjoy games here at lot more than at mafiascum, and that's purely because we have an awesome group!

Originally Posted by GatorJH

Hoopy, I can't figure out how people thought you were a wolf. I had a very hard time pointing to things you did as wolfy.

It was the whole not saving aubrey thing on day 2. Plus when gabe was outed some of my votes looked sketchy.

yeah from the sounds of it i have zero desire to play mafiascum games

Probably not, it's more aggressive and days lasting 14 days was crazy.

i thought i did a good job of making you look wolfy lol

lets play werewolf again

Originally Posted by gabe

lets play werewolf again

Keep it in the dead thread.

lynch gator

DO it!

We could do a supernatural themed game.

In