Varchertine's Werewolf Game Thread

[wufwugy]

god this thread is huge

slept on it and finished my schoolwork earlier than expected, so have some time now. also have five beers. too bad theyre gross beers, but gross beer is better than no beer

[a500lbgorilla]

sup wuf?

[wufwugy]

Wuf, I essentially made this same argument in the last game and you called me wolfy for it and pushed for my mislynch. Why the change?

I don't recall exactly why I said the threadflow thing to you in the previous game, but I remember saying it. Also I pushed for your lynch for different reasons than that.

So I guess let me explain: I probably shouldn't use the term threadflow and instead should say something like "personality flow". I think when you or somebody from Pog or whatever it's called say "threadflow", you are referring to a much more rapid thing. You're referring to real-time discussions. If that's true, then that is not what I meant when I said threadflow. Under that definition of threadflow, we don't have much of it here on FTR, on account of the games being so slow and people showing up at unusual times as standard. I don't recall a single successful "threadflow" read anybody on FTR has had. We just don't do it that way. Ofc maybe Baud and Ong can because they have played on MS or 2p2 a bit, but I still haven't seen it translated to FTR

Now, what I was referring to was a more subtextual, deeper analysis of a player's play over long stretches, sometimes several days, sometimes the entire game. My village strategy has always revolved around this long-form process, and I've discussed it several times in the past. I don't think that many people argree with it, but it has been a successful strategy for me. It has also been the strategy that gets me in shitloads of trouble, probably because nobody likes it, or at least the way I do it. I tend to do things like absolute fuckall on d1 but then by the late game I rev into full gear. An example you definitely know is how I was so so wrong in going crazy trying to get you lynched in the previous game, but then the next day, the final gameday, I had all the information I needed to bold the final wolf. I've been in the same situation several times here, and I've been quite successful with them. This is where statements like me saying "I'm always wrong until I'm right" or Baud saying in the last post-game "he plays bad but gets there" comes from. I prefer to think of it as a boxing ring, where the village's job is to gradually but effectively corner the wolves, tire them out, get a feel for their gameplan and get them to duck to our feints, so by the very end we are in the best position to deliver an overwhelming combination and get the KO

How this relates to what you quoted specifically, my reads on Hoopy in the previous game came from this "personality flow" analysis. He did two specific things: (1) asked questions back to back that I did not think made sense coming from him given what he had previously done, and (2) had constructed a case against Gabe that did not seem to flow from his real thoughts. It all had an artificial feel to it, but I was so close to missing it. I have been in spots like this with Hoopy several times, and it's always the most subtle thing that gets me to say "ah he's a wolf here" or "just a villager."

[wufwugy]

sup wuf?

So, if the derivative of position is velocity and the derivative of velocity is acceleration, what's the derivative of ur mom?

[Keybored]

**UNOFFICIAL VOTE COUNT**

BAUDIB (6) = Boog-867; Ong-1223; MMM-1299; BID-1300; Daven-1508; Keyb-1569
WUF (5) = Baud-840; Monstr-961; Wuf-1213; Rascal-1401; Rilla-1573
BIGRED (1) = Luco-1143
BOOG (1) = Hoppy-1509

No Vote: BigRed (still)

[Keybored]

7 hours to EOD

[baudib]

My, Keybored is so helpful.

[a500lbgorilla]

So, if the derivative of position is velocity and the derivative of velocity is acceleration, what's the derivative of ur mom?

You're sounding like quite the derivative of acceleration.

[a500lbgorilla]

I'll collect my high-5 from MMM now

[baudib]

I'm off to work -- it's Grammys night. I'll check in but discuss amongst yourselves and find a way not to lynch me.

glgl

[a500lbgorilla]

I'm off to work -- it's Grammys night. I'll check in but discuss amongst yourselves and find a way not to lynch me.

glgl

Oh we gon'

[Keybored]

My, Keybored is so helpful.

Thanks. No go on and let us "have" you.

[Keybored]

My, Keybored is so helpful.

Sarcasm...meh
You know what I find helpful?
With your holier-than-thou remarks, you've pissed on nearly everyone this game.
10 diff ppl have voted to lynch you, Baudib.
In addition to everything else, that's what sealed it for me.

[baudib]

I'm Tiffy of ISIS -- I'll flip exactly that.

Rilla is a villager 49 of 50 times minimum.

[baudib]

Sarcasm...meh
You know what I find helpful?
With your holier-than-thou remarks, you've pissed on nearly everyone this game.
10 diff ppl have voted to lynch you, Baudib.
In addition to everything else, that's what sealed it for me.

That's exactly your flavor of the moment, low-accountability voting style you displayed as a wolf. As a villager you have independent thoughts.

[OngBonga]

Alright I'm the seer and I looked at baudib n1, he's a wolf.

[a500lbgorilla]

This set up is a lot of fun.

I never want to play it again.

[OngBonga]

CALM DOWN I'M JOKING

[baudib]

I'm gonna flip exactly what I said.

[a500lbgorilla]

So any wolves wanna chat?

[wufwugy]

I can at least follow Baud's thought processes.

I can't say the same about Wuf. I think most people don't even read his long posts since I see TLDR posted after most of them.

Correct. I am some hefty lynchbait on the forum. I think it's mainly because people get frustrated with how bossy I am (understandably so, even I don't like it much as it doesn't reflect my non-game personality at all). I have tried very hard to tone it down, but every time I do, I get called wolf. The only time I don't get lots of bolds is when I mod the previous game, because that means people have a memorable experience without my style and everybody doesn't like early lynching the mod from the previous game.

When I play my old crazy style and everybody says I'm Honorary Wolf and says I suck. When I play a moderate and sensible style, then everybody calls me a wolf for not playing like the expected Honorary Wolf. I shouldn't say everybody, because it's not everybody, just enough to keep me at constant threat of death.

I'm not complaining so much as I'm explaining the dynamic. It is what it is, and people tell me they value having my style in the game even though it's irritating.

[wufwugy]

FWIW, I love reading Wuf's shit. That dude is a fucking word master! On the contrary, I dislike those who hide behind their reps and only post these cryptic one or two liners and expect everyone to just respect the oracle. Communication is a tricky thing. Anyway, I do agree that many probly just skim Wuf's stuff. It's too bad cuz it's not too often you get to look into someone's mind like that. Kid be trippin.

[Keybored]

updated estimated EW
Boog 80%
Wuf 75%
Keybored 53%
Ong 40%
Luco 35%
Hoopy 30%
Rascal 25%
BigRed 25%
Daven 22%
Monstr 15%
Rilla 2%
BID 0%

**UNOFFICIAL VOTE COUNT**
BAUDIB (6) = Boog-867; Ong-1223; MMM-1299; BID-1300; Daven-1508; Keyb-1569

This puts 3 of your top 4 wolves on your wagon. That how you think they'd be playing it?

[a500lbgorilla]

Wuf talking about the game, not getting into the game.

[wufwugy]

I can't follow his logic in most cases. They may make sense from his POV, but he's not getting his message across to others (at least not to me).

Very true. Which is why I get bossy. I understand my points well but I also know that I don't convey them well. Sometimes I go back and read posts from just a few months ago and cringe at how repetitive and lacking in vital explanations my prose can be

[a500lbgorilla]

Hey future village, be wary of anyone who tries to aim down the MMM side of MMM-BID.

[Luco]

**UNOFFICIAL VOTE COUNT**

BAUDIB (6) = Boog-867; Ong-1223; MMM-1299; BID-1300; Daven-1508; Keyb-1569
WUF (5) = Baud-840; Monstr-961; Wuf-1213; Rascal-1401; Rilla-1573
BIGRED (1) = Luco-1143
BOOG (1) = Hoppy-1509

No Vote: BigRed (still)

Motherfuck

rescind bigred, lynch wuf

It's a vote for hoopy. I would rather lynch boog / monstr though.

[wufwugy]

Wuf talking about the game, not getting into the game.

Hey wolf I'm reading all the posts and responding to the marginally non-game ones before I compile my wolf-reads. If you were a villager, you would know I do this. Wait, you do know I do this, but you don't care

[a500lbgorilla]

And thinking on wuf and his game-mechanics and wuf-mechanics resume reminds me why I'm ok thinking Boog is a villager. At least he gets into the game with his crazy ass game-solved posts.

Dude def needs to learn to post more if he wants to be useful.

[a500lbgorilla]

Hey wolf I'm reading all the posts and responding to the marginally non-game ones before I compile my wolf-reads. If you were a villager, you would know I do this. Wait, you do know I do this, but you don't care

If you say so, wuf.

[Luco]

I'm Tiffy of ISIS -- I'll flip exactly that.

Rilla is a villager 49 of 50 times minimum.

This is pretty direct.

[Luco]

Hey future village, be wary of anyone who tries to aim down the MMM side of MMM-BID.

Bid has been quiet today...

[a500lbgorilla]

Bid has been quiet today...

I can't wait to read your victory thread.

[Keybored]

This is pretty direct.

I don't like this at all. Wuf has just sat down and stacking his chips. Lurking Luco goes all-in on him w/o even waiting for a count. First wolfy tell I've gotten from my pardner.

[Keybored]

Don't really like Rilla's attacks on Wuf either. I'm giving him a chance to catch up b4 casting stones...

[a500lbgorilla]

This game is so fun.

[Keybored]

Wuf...give us an update on your partner after you've read him today?

[Luco]

I can't wait to read your victory thread.

You're in it

[Luco]

Rilla, thoughts on the field right now?

[a500lbgorilla]

Rilla, thoughts on the field right now?

Surprisingly few. I need a wolf corpse.

[baudib]

Motherfuck

rescind bigred, lynch wuf

It's a vote for hoopy. I would rather lynch boog / monstr though.

This is pretty much in line with my thinking. It's hard for me to see Boog flipping V; somehow there's a universe in which Wuf will be one and just got tangled up in IRL and mechanics BS. But Monstr is close to always a villager and Hoopy is detached even for him.

[Keybored]

im done with this. people do not read my posts and people understand nothing about my game lynch wuf

WUF...you do this cuz you're not interested in playing any longer or cuz you think Hoopy's a lock wolf?

HOOPY...You going to address your partner's behavior?

WTF?

[wufwugy]

WUF...you do this cuz you're not interested in playing any longer or cuz you think Hoopy's a lock wolf?

HOOPY...You going to address your partner's behavior?

WTF?

I'll give my thoughts on Hoopy soon

Finished my readthrough of what happened since I left yesterday. Now rereading the rest of thread

[a500lbgorilla]

BID-ONG-MMM I believe are always villagers.

BID puts his thoughts into his posts and there's nothing getting in their way.

MMM is definitely acting in each of his posts, but I believe he's too villager to worry about.

ONG is being ONG. He's trying to hunt wolves and he's using everything at his disposal to get it done. Of course, he's got barely anything at his disposal (as do we all), so that's that.

BAUDIB I'm expecting to flip villager. His approach to the game, relentlessly unapologetically pushing everything is, by form, villagery - in practice makes just about everyone find it wolfy, methinks.

LUCO loves hanging back, not getting his huffle puffed - in a sense it's an act along side MMMs constant grand gestures of not being that same 'ole dick MMM he was a few weeks back.

KEYBORED doesn't like me because I possess an overabundance of douche in my bag but he seems to be figuring it out. He has like 3 posts that make me really think villager.

HOOPY likes asking questions, seems like a nice guy stuck on the sidelines. I dunno.

WUFWUGY probably is real life scheduled out of this game, but I think he's using that to his advantage like BOOG did against me one game. He was on the other side of the world so we never got to interact and I got blindsided by him in the end game. WUF has a way of dominating a conversation, driving it, but most importantly bringing new shit into the thread. You can see ONG bring new shit into the thread with his madness, but none-a this from WUF.

MONSTR seems like a villager. I'm not familiar with him as a person, so so long as he continues not raising any alarms, I'm cool just reading along.

RASCAL had some posts today. He talked a lot about game design and brain dumped a bit but I didn't think anything particularly one way or the other. Again, dunno the person.

DAVEN I don't have any real thoughts that come to mind. I read the thread between my reread yesterday and this morning and nothing came up to me.

BOOG keeps to himself.

BIGRED doesn't care about this game. He never cares about being a villager.

Did I miss anyone?

[a500lbgorilla]

A500LBGORILLA didn't intent to play werewolf but fuck it why not. He's really enjoyed this game set up because it really does put to the test if the village can beat the wolves in the purest sense. The wolves know, the village doesn't. I think the village can win, but that requires it not to get in its own way - and it always gets in its own way.

[baudib]

BID-ONG-MMM I believe are always villagers.

BID puts his thoughts into his posts and there's nothing getting in their way.

MMM is definitely acting in each of his posts, but I believe he's too villager to worry about.

ONG is being ONG. He's trying to hunt wolves and he's using everything at his disposal to get it done. Of course, he's got barely anything at his disposal (as do we all), so that's that.

BAUDIB I'm expecting to flip villager. His approach to the game, relentlessly unapologetically pushing everything is, by form, villagery - in practice makes just about everyone find it wolfy, methinks.

LUCO loves hanging back, not getting his huffle puffed - in a sense it's an act along side MMMs constant grand gestures of not being that same 'ole dick MMM he was a few weeks back.

KEYBORED doesn't like me because I possess an overabundance of douche in my bag but he seems to be figuring it out. He has like 3 posts that make me really think villager.

HOOPY likes asking questions, seems like a nice guy stuck on the sidelines. I dunno.

WUFWUGY probably is real life scheduled out of this game, but I think he's using that to his advantage like BOOG did against me one game. He was on the other side of the world so we never got to interact and I got blindsided by him in the end game. WUF has a way of dominating a conversation, driving it, but most importantly bringing new shit into the thread. You can see ONG bring new shit into the thread with his madness, but none-a this from WUF.

MONSTR seems like a villager. I'm not familiar with him as a person, so so long as he continues not raising any alarms, I'm cool just reading along.

RASCAL had some posts today. He talked a lot about game design and brain dumped a bit but I didn't think anything particularly one way or the other. Again, dunno the person.

DAVEN I don't have any real thoughts that come to mind. I read the thread between my reread yesterday and this morning and nothing came up to me.

BOOG keeps to himself.

BIGRED doesn't care about this game. He never cares about being a villager.

Did I miss anyone?

yeah, I mean I agree with most of this. The problem with our group is that we make it super easy to be a wolf when the village is content to let villagers and wolves slide by.

[a500lbgorilla]

I should correct, wuf does 'bring new shit' into the thread, it just all had to do with game design and why outing-pairs was better. Ong, for comparison, was basically shoveling wolf-hunting theories into the thread today.

[Luco]

Luco loves hanging back? I get down off my troll box to try and solve this for you fucktards and this is the thanks I get?

[a500lbgorilla]

Luco loves hanging back? I get down off my troll box to try and solve this for you fucktards and this is the thanks I get?

You only stepped down onto a bigger troll box.

[Luco]

You only stepped down onto a bigger troll box.

Now you're just being mean

I'M TELLING MOM!

[Hoopy]

Uggggh this day.

You're sounding like quite the derivative of acceleration.

Physics hi5!

[baudib]

But Rilla you have too many villagers.

[Hoopy]

WUF...you do this cuz you're not interested in playing any longer or cuz you think Hoopy's a lock wolf?

HOOPY...You going to address your partner's behavior?

WTF?

I have no idea why wuf is self voting, pure frustration at a guess.

[a500lbgorilla]

But Rilla you have too many villagers.

Yeah, I need a wolf corpse to move further. Only so much you can do with guessing at what people are up to.

[a500lbgorilla]

Uggggh this day.

Physics hi5!

[Luco]

yeah, I mean I agree with most of this. The problem with our group is that we make it super easy to be a wolf when the village is content to let villagers and wolves slide by.

This is coming from the guy who berated anyone that voted for dav-red

I wanted to snick off the slackers today, and explained why. It even makes sense for meta reasons. You were the fuck nugget slamming the brakes on it.

[OngBonga]

Guys I just had a great idea.













Let's lynch baudib.

[Hoopy]

rescind boog

I'm thinking it might be best for the village for wuf & me go today.

Obviously it's not great but I don't see rilla or baudib being a wolf here, and for wolf hunting they are doing better than us.

[a500lbgorilla]

No, I want to die and laugh at the village's failures!

[Luco]

rescind boog

I'm thinking it might be best for the village for wuf & me go today.

Obviously it's not great but I don't see rilla or baudib being a wolf here, and for wolf hunting they are doing better than us.

Motherfuck

rescind wuf

I'm literally going to bed now, what to do

[baudib]

Guys I just had a great idea.













Let's lynch baudib.

this is the same exact line you used the only time we were V/V and set us up for village failure.

[Hoopy]

This game is a horrendous mind fuck, every time I want to lynch someone for being wolfy (i.e. BooG) their partner always seems like a villager (monstr).

[Hoopy]

No, I want to die and laugh at the village's failures!

STFU I want to sit on the sidelines and pretend that I knew the wolves all along!

[OngBonga]

this is the same exact line you used the only time we were V/V and set us up for village failure.

Fucking hell, I'd better blindly sheep you then baudib. Who you voting for again?

[OngBonga]

luco don't go to bed with your vote on noone. Bus baudib for the creds.

[Hoopy]

How does everyone feel about a late boog wagon?

[OngBonga]

It makes me want to lynch anyone who hops on.

[wufwugy]

Okay there's a ton here, so I'll keep it as brief as possible

Here are a handful of examples of Rilla doing what he said when I do it is "intellectually absent". There are many, many more, but I'll just post the first three

#28

I think I have 4 villagers so far. I have 2 other wolf candidates, and as much fun as it would be to lynch Wuf Day 1, I can't help to think at least 1 wolf jumped all over him.

yeah it's early

#39

No specials means only tone reads as wagons won't be particularly telling.

I'm betting the wolves aren't pair-bonded together even though that'd be the best of all scenarios.

OP lists 16 people, but has 14 villagers and 4 wolves (for 18), assuming a typo that's 8 pairs.

All wolves with another villager, 4 v-v pairs, 4 w-v pairs. Even though you know your own role, you don't know the value of your life with 100% confidence. Given nothing but tone reads to go off of, villagers are at worst .5 villagers, and at best .9 villagers as they can never really know for sure what their partner's role is.

Hopefully there's one complete w-w pair, so we can stumble into something as a village, otherwise it's a complete guess-fest brought to you by strained tone reads and wacky slip-analysis.

#50

Your first responsibility is to get a read on your partner.

My partner is Baudib. He claims Tiffy (Tunt), I claim Cecil Tunt.

Second, the game is about the wolves total information against our none. With partner-lines known, they'll be less able to defend each other.

They already know all of the villager's they or their buddies are bonded with and can use that to navigate through the lynch mob and claim ignorance after the fact if anyone in the future should sniff them out.

A good 450 posts later, Rilla calls me villager

#543 at 1:05 PM

LilRascal - seems pretty mellow
Keybored - not mellow
Ongbonga - not mellow
Gabe - pretty mellow dude
BID - Bigred's laziness is starting to get under my skin. - sound mellow? nah
Wufwugy - not mellow
Rong - a mellow dude
Luco - a little un-mellow
Boog - not mellow
Hoppy - pretty mellow
Baudib - rather mellow
Monstrman - very mellow
Bigred - pretty mellow
MMM - hard to say, a little grating maybe a little grated?
Daven - super mellow

Mellow analysis finds the following people not yellow:

MMM, Boog, Luco, Wufwugy, BID, OngBonga, Keybored - villagers the lot of 'em!

Then two hours later, he calls me wolf

#619 at 3:17 PM

Wufwugy has been suspiciously absent from the fray.

#638

Fuck it

lynch wufwugy

The above is the sequence of events where I first started watching Rilla. He's usually very keen with his logic, but this demonstrated that his logic did not flow from what he said he believed just a couple hours earlier. Sometimes this isn't a problem, like when things change and we must reassess, but nothing had changed. I was AFK and I have made it very clear several times in the past that this happens, all with specific time periods. I have not posted at the time period Rilla said that during weekdays in forever

This suggested to me that he's pointing fingers more than he's looking for real connections.

#1131

lynch daven

Upon reread, the wolves are in here: hoopy, bigred, daven, baudib, wufwugy, rascal

#1145

lynch bigred

Okay, um, I thought Rilla thought I was a wolf. Guess not

#1270

I've never seen wuf less intellectually invested.

This really got under my skin. Besides the fact that I have been gone for an unusually large amount of the game, every time I was here, I was leading in votes. What am I supposed to do but defend? Rilla said all I did was talk about game mechanics (which isn't true in the first place), but he didn't bother to notice that I was being attacked on my views of game mechanics. I tried to move on from that as much as I could, and I actually did. But Rilla never noticed this. Instead he just kept calling me a wolf

#1272

He's got his game structure arguments, sure, but outside of that I bet I could scrounge up 3 times he's said something to the affect of "but I don't want to get into that".

This is wuf. If he knows he's right, he's gonna share.

Wait a second, so here Rilla himself explains why it is reasonable to think that I would say lots of stuff about game mechanics when I'm in an argument over it, yet he thinks it's wolfy? No. Rilla just made an argument for why it's not wolfy. But again, he doesn't acknowledge this.


Fast forward to stuff that has happened since I was last in the thread

#1488

Wuf is exactly an amateur wolf. also he was AFK.

Baud finally acknowledges that I have been gone a lot more than normal. Yet he makes no move to let this affect his opinion. His and Rilla's case against me entirely depend on the idea that I have not been AFK a lot more than normal. If they're both wolves, they're both wolves with the same opinion. If one's a villager I suspect it's Baud because I think his opinion of me reflects the way Rilla would attack me. The fact that Baud acknowledges how AFK I've been suggests Rilla has acknowledged it in their chat. Yet Rilla still doesn't let new information change his view.

#1570

There's no path to victory that involves Wuf being a V here.

as for self-lynching, it's nothing short of sabotage. add it to the growing list of things Wuf has done this game that are totally out of character for him.

Completely unwilling to look at the facts, even after he declared them to be different than he originally thought. But we should expect that from a guy who has also said he's not reading much of what people say. Or maybe it's just my posts he's not reading. How funny is it that Baud saying I'm not hunting yet he has admitting he's not even reading my so-called MQ's, where I do almost all of my hunting

If the world is right, you both are wolves. Sadly I think it's just Rilla and Baud is his standard hyper-contradictory villager self. The worst of it is that Rilla is obviously not rereading anything. Then he and Baud keep saying "Rilla's too engaged to be a wolf". Clearly he's not too engaged. He's just pointing fingers in one-liners and ignoring new information

#1544

I remember when wuf-ong-and I would have exasperated arguments in these games and neither ong nor wuf "getting it".

Where's wuf? Where's his iron skull leaning into some argument?

AFK like your buddy said. When I've been on, about 50% has gone to defending myself since I've been on the brink of death. The other 50% has been assessing and reassessing my the players, but you've just ignored this about me entirely. If you and Baud weren't ignoring all posts over three lines, you would know this

#1608

I can't wait to read your victory thread.

Dude said this to Luco. How many wolves does this guy have? We can only choose one lynch per day (of two players), but if we lynched everybody Rilla has pointed his finger at while he's supposedly oh so convinced about me, half the village would be dead

#1619

WUFWUGY probably is real life scheduled out of this game

He even admits it


lynch baud

[Luco]

luco don't go to bed with your vote on noone. Bus baudib for the creds.

I'm voting before I go.

Will you lead tomorrow? Because you haven't today

[a500lbgorilla]

lol wuf, why did i call you a villager?

[a500lbgorilla]

LOL oh man

[OngBonga]

I'm voting before I go.

Will you lead tomorrow? Because you haven't today

Depends. To be honest there's really not much I can do until I find out if I'm right about baudib. Until then, my head is firmly up my ass and will remain there.

[baudib]

It's nice that you think I'm a villager and voting me anyway, Wuf. LOL if village lets you get away with this.

[a500lbgorilla]

At least wuf'll die before too long.

[OngBonga]

It's nice that you think I'm a villager and voting me anyway, Wuf. LOL if village lets you get away with this.

This is too dumb for village baudib.