FTR Werewolf: Gold Rush (Carbon Poker Freeroll)

Originally Posted by baudib

yeah that's true. I also still don't think the village played well. I arguably played worse than anyone.

Looking back at older games,even from this year, i'm surprised how much more aggro everyone is early in the game. Jyms was spotting wolves left and right on D1, and there are tons of people openly treating players like wolves on D1/D2. Obviously people were wrong a lot, but they were right a lot. Putting pressure on people seemed to be the norm, I'm surprised how much it has changed.

I don't think there's much change. You and I going at it so hard dominated everything else, as well as there were a lot fewer regs this time around

Each game is just a weird, unique thing.

Originally Posted by BankItDrew

I could have once, when I was lynched Day 1, the game after I was a wolf and somehow blocked a night nom LOLOLOL

I was too pissed to wait for other dead people, so I just left FTR for a month.

omg i had completely forgotten about that

you're one of a kind for sure

Originally Posted by wufwugy

Each game is just a weird, unique thing.

Which is exactly why we should have another game asap. The next game will be entirely different.

You know what won't be different?

ur mom

Obv

gg wolfies, great job modding dhuber!

Wuf don't worry about the dead thread, even with our hive mind we couldn't pin three wolves.

Shit always seems more obvious when you're dead...

its easy to have a good read but the hard part is convincing others and not seeming wolfy. making the read is just one of the skills. of course it helps to be right alot so the persuasion skill isnt as necessary



as for how i played, i thought my bolding keybored to seal his lynch was 100% wolfy tell. i was thinking at the time i was going to die unless i could somehow hit a miracle. it seemed like many players get caught up in their own "stories" that they didnt scrutinize that lynch enough. i would just never do that as a villager, unless i had been the one making a big case for that person. and i hadnt really made any case for keybored.

i know its easy to look at my posts and go "oh thats a wolf." my plan was just to not piss anyone off for as long as possible while gently nudging the village.


also as far as special hunting, i hardly think about that. i suggest luco get eaten because he would probably not be accused in the short term since he was fresh

when i saw keybored was 1 vote away i just couldnt help myself.

how did u guys let me live LOL

also im not sure if rong should have shot someone. having another day is pretty nice

I think he had to. Given that he was so close to shooting Keith, it was a good decision. Ong had been saying for days that we desperately needed a vig shot on Keith.

There was another impossible scenario for a village win: Vig (not Rong) shoots Keith and Rong gets lynched for being a LDFO wolf.

oh hi guys.

the extent of scourges caoching was

just don't drop me and gabe in it , don't talk about people as though you already know that they are villagers . just play the game as if you are a villager looking for wolves , and keep a constant story...if you need to change make it evolve don't just jump from one extreme to another. most villagers looking for wolves get it wrong , just make your story convincing.

and lol at you guys letting me get away with saying i didn't read the angel PM.

hilarious nom would be bid lol .....would it make the village think thats its noobs as wolves.
26 keith 08-19-2014 12:02 PM ET (US)	hmmm....why sub luco in for sweetclaire when she said she was going to post to mex. special?..... and if we eat luco doi get village brownie points or does it look dodgy .i mean why go to the effort of keping that character alive only to eat it that night....doesn't make sense for a wolf to do that when could have just left it for a modkill. hmmm definitely worth thinking about eating him.
25 keith 08-19-2014 09:35 AM ET (US)	luco is f*cked if i get killed/seered after al the effort i went to to keep sweetclairerose in the game .

i didn't even get to se the luco line, and bid kill instead would have been so funny as we'd have got angel n1 and seer n2

LOL rong!

Great game wolves.

How did you miss the seer peek? Oh man...

I was furious when I died because of Keith's "for sure" and how so many people swallowed that shit.

This village was too much.

Originally Posted by wufwugy

Going through the dead thread: not a fan of that crumb for the Ong lookup. Signals are caught by wolves really well but they are also confusing for the village. The kind of thing to do is something that can't be seen until after death. If you look up a wolf, all you really have to do is try to get him lynched and try to come up with legit reasons why. After you die, the village will know that player has to die. If you look up a villager, just say you think that player is a villager in a more clear way than you say about anybody else. These are things that vanillas do all the time and wolves can't use to try to find the seer, but after the seer dies they're easy ways to make the lookups clear

You want to stay alive though. You just need to put out a sentence that reads one way when you're alive and another when you're dead. Plus the fact that he opens the day playing with that read and that he drops it right when the Gator wagon gets going makes it entirely more convincing that "could for sure be a wolf".

Even if you don't like his Gator is a villager on night action hint (a read he clearly was being focused on writing out), no one should have invested in the "for sure" bit.

Great play wolves.

interesting thing is no one really questioned in late game why gator and gabe were still both alive.

Yeah, there weren't many ways we were going to win this game. Especially since 3 villagers decided to skip the first 2 days.

Originally Posted by Keith

interesting thing is no one really questioned in late game why gator and gabe were still both alive.

Very good job of misdirection by you guys, and the village just leveled themselves. I think Ong will disagree, but I thought Keybored was a terrible lynch on Day 3. At some point the issue of "Why is Gabe even alive?" should come up.

Another thing is that the speed of the wagons without strong competing wagons should have hinted that they were going to flip village...it kept happening.

It is clear from reading the wolf den that we leveled ourselves. Look at how much fuss the Luco nom created.

guess its kinda obvious now why i was campaigning so hard to get those inactives subbed in ......me and gabe would have left gabe likely to die so i'd have to avoid death and we couldn't manipulate lynches so easily

but woulda been so funny if BID had died at some stage and made me look even more villager.

oh and to a certain extent it must be hard for scourge to sub in as a wolf with me and gabe cos we don't exactly do a lot of talking in the wolf den .

Scourrge did great, exactly what he needed to do really. Don't make waves and let the village destroy itself

lol dan gets woat vig award for taking out seer and his confirmed fucking lookup

Originally Posted by wufwugy

As for why I didn't look for Ong's crumb, I assumed Ong wouldn't leave one like that since the wolves will almost always find it. I thought that he would think outing is better than leaving a crumb since, well, leaving a crumb is basically outing to the wolfden

haha this is the same person who said that it would be a mistake to not leave a crumb.

If I had a n2 lookup, I probably don't drop a d2 crumb, but seeing as I couldn't do anything until n3, I felt I had to leave my lookup somewhere. And according to keith in the den, it was the correction of seer strat that got their attention, which is funny because I thought that makes it look like I'm not angel or seer. I knew leaving a crumb was risky, but I had to do it.

keith is very lucky, because my n1 lookup was pretty much a flip between gator and keith. I went for gator because I felt he was wolfier and with the noob he was less likely to be lynched, meaning I thought he was going deep.

The fact I got vigged means my crumb was subtle enough. I can't see it was picked up on immediately in the den, so it slipped through.

Village dithering about my crumb when I actually said night action, that was uber fucking frustrating.

Also wuf, that's your worst villager game to date, at least that I can remember. Probably mine too, I shouldn't have sat back while you and buadib fucked each other, that was definitely a mistake because keith picked up on my reluctance to piss people off.

Originally Posted by bikes

new plan of attack is gabe is the new pelion.

I'm not sure why. I thought it was pretty easy to spot Gabe as a wolf.

Originally Posted by dhubermex

UGH... you're right. Just when I thought I had modded the game without a major hitch, I have a massive endgame fail!

And for that I say thank you. I have a super busy weekend and couldn't have focused on the game as much as needed anyway. I think you did an awesome job.

I think keith is not too difficult to spot either, you just have to figure out his motives. gabe was looking very wolfy simply because he was doing nothing to help the village when we were in the shit.

scourge was an excellent noob wolf, and even if the village figured keith and gabe out, scourge wins it for them.

wp wolves. Only game I can remember where wolves own it more than this is where me and boog didn't nom anyone to take the piss.

Also good modding doober. The teeny weeny mistake at the end didn't make a shred of difference, wolves had this in the bag.

This game is a great example of the worst case scenario of two villagers going at each other. All too often, other villagers start to think there's a wolf between the two, especially when both players are careless in their language. Both wuf and baudib played like shit through those first two days, which is a real shame because as the two most active, you'd hope they are setting the village up for later days.

It was only the last day where I started to think wuf was villager, but after baudib's flip I had him 100% wolf. The fact wuf was saying I look at drew when I claim to be able to read drew, that kind of logic fail just sums up wuf's game this time around. wuf should know I'm likely to look at someone who I have trouble reading, and who would be a dangerous wolf going deep. gator fits that profile a lot more than drew.

Oh yeah, and wuf, your comment about how drew is special or wolf a lot more often than vanilla, I did agree with that, but saying it in the thread was really stupid. From a vanilla pov, it's 50-50 that drew is special or wolf. From a special pov, it's 60-40 in favour of wolf. From a wolf pov, well they know if he's wolf or not. If the wolves agree with you that he's more likely special, you're doing their fucking special hunting. That's yet another reason why I had you as a lock wolf after baudib's flip.

Oh one more thing wuf...

love you wuf

Originally Posted by baudib

doesn't matter, village would have never won this. we sucked.

meh, I'm not totally convinced although one key would have been getting back to my original read on Keith.

Originally Posted by GatorJH

meh, I'm not totally convinced although one key would have been getting back to my original read on Keith.

I don't see how scourge is getting lynched. He wasn't making any mistakes while plenty of villagers were.

Originally Posted by wufwugy

If we had stuck to this philosophy, I think Gabe would have been lynched before Bikes and we would have had a chance. I think I really screw things up when I try to overextend and find the teams prematurely. I do it because I get excited and the game days are too long for my tastes. Posts like the giant player evaluation one I made are a big problem. The player I wanted dead was Gabe, but that post helped nudge the rationale for Bikes instead

Agreed and I let FPS get in the way of a Gabe lynch. Sorry village!!

bikes getting lynched was pretty bad too. Who the fuck shoots ongbonga on n2? That was nearly always gonna be dan or bikes. People not stopping to consider the info.

Originally Posted by GrayFoxxxx

Sorry for tunneling you wuf, maybe I wont play so narrowminded next game

I think wuf is working on modifying his posting style in these games so it is understandable that people will find him suspicious.

FWIW Wuf, I think toning down your posting will pay dividends in later games.

yeah, my bad. I totally played like shit. A lot of it really was because I was trying to get myself killed by Day 2/3. But I wanted to rattle some cages and make sick reads. The interesting thing to me is that Rilla seemed to have the same reads as me early on (he was suspicious of Wuf, Gator and Bikes) and was equally wrong, but still managed to provide value for the village where I just created a mess. If anything I probably contributed to throwing Gator and Wuf off their games. I only realized Wuf was a villager on Day 4 and Scourrge only barely registered on the wolfdar around the same time.

I think playing wolf is way way easier.

Originally Posted by wufwugy

A nub wolf who doesn't fuck up is really tough to spot.

I think Gray Key and Scourrge all played great, fun games. Really hope you guys play again

TOTALLY AGREE and would add baudib to that list. Other than the "way too many" posts there was some good content.

Originally Posted by baudib

You know what won't be different?

ur mom

zing.

Originally Posted by gabe

also im not sure if rong should have shot someone. having another day is pretty nice

yeah but nailing a wolf gives you an extra 2, plus the wolves have less leverage. And getting an extra day in that village probably wasn't worth as much when there were still 3 wolves. value of nailing a wolf was so high that imo he'd have to take a shot even if it was only like 35-40% chance of a wolf.

Originally Posted by gabe

also im not sure if rong should have shot someone. having another day is pretty nice

Just from a pure odds perspective he had to and I think a village win is a lot less difficult if we go into the next day with a dead wolf to analyze.

I think vanillagers acting wolfy can be good for the village if applied correctly. Baudib you might want to send daven a pm and ask how it's done

I think it's funny how a few games ago we we all saying that it was getting harder for wolves to win, but since then they've gone like, 4 for 5 or something

Originally Posted by OngBonga

I don't see how scourge is getting lynched. He wasn't making any mistakes while plenty of villagers were.

IMO, his avoidance of Keith and Gabe would have been evident if it made it that far

Scourrge's voting pattern started to raise the hair on the back of my neck a bit. I was thinking, "geeze, he's such a noob he doesn't realize how wolfy it looks when he hops on these fast-moving bandwagons and ends up lynching villagers." I'm pretty sure he was lock villager in the minds of most though, even GrayFoxxx looked shadier.

Once you get that first wolf it gets easier, you just need a hold of that thread and you can unravel the whole thing. I think the village had a shot, but it was a long one. Hoobs definitely shouldn't feel too bad about the slip at the end though

It's also why you shouldn't try to find the whole wolf team in one go imo

Originally Posted by GatorJH

IMO, his avoidance of Keith and Gabe would have been evident if it made it that far

That's true. There might be a path to victory for the village here, but that relies on figuring out stuff that isn't easy to figure out, and seeing as you got shot and might even have got lynched, it's clear the village wasn't up to the task.

I wasn't annoyed to get killed early, I was annoyed that my clear on you wasn't getting through.

rilla was even more annoyed lol

Baudib in the dead thread - "Gator's 3 game days behind. Frustrating for me...he's saying stuff about Wuf and Foxxxx I said a week ago."

Unfortunately I was super busy the first few days of this game and although I was paying attention I didn't have time for any deep dives. When my schedule cleared enough I felt like I needed to start from day 1 to get a clear picture. Looking back I wish I would have completed that before pushing for bikes because I probably would have stuck with Gabe instead.

that's probably why i thought you were way less engaged, less jovial and involved than last game (where you were on Dhubermex right away).

Originally Posted by baudib

I think playing wolf is way way easier.

i think you are getting a distorted view from subbing in late in a game. as such you didn't have to figure later days into what you say at the start. As wolves i think our kills were also an example of keeping the people we could throw suspicion at alive rather than killing of good players by reputation. i'f i'd been looked up it would have looked bad for luco and gator . if it had come down to a head to head with m and gator i had the first day campaigning to prolong the days so that subs could enter the game and why campaign for a sub and then eat him when a wolf would have just let luco be modkilled without getting to sub into the game. As wolves we still had a whole lot of ammo stacked up in case either me or gabe died.

luco .....2 of those 5 wolf wins gabe and me were co wolves ....could have been a big factor.

Originally Posted by Keith

i think you are getting a distorted view from subbing in late in a game. as such you didn't have to figure later days into what you say at the start. As wolves i think our kills were also an example of keeping the people we could throw suspicion at alive rather than killing of good players by reputation. i'f i'd been looked up it would have looked bad for luco and gator . if it had come down to a head to head with m and gator i had the first day campaigning to prolong the days so that subs could enter the game and why campaign for a sub and then eat him when a wolf would have just let luco be modkilled without getting to sub into the game. As wolves we still had a whole lot of ammo stacked up in case either me or gabe died.

luco .....2 of those 5 wolf wins gabe and me were co wolves ....could have been a big factor.

I don't disagree with you but I also think it's likely that most wolf combos were difficult to trace back to you. Keith/Gabe/Wuf or Keith/Gabe/Rong or Keith/Gabe/Bikes, it seemed that binking the third wolf would then lead to Gabe getting caught but there was enough bickering/bolding going on back and forth I thought it was unlikely to tie them to you. I was convinced wolf-on-wolf interactions were dominating most of Day 3/4.

The fact that the third wolf was even more hidden means it was going to be really really tough for the village to do it.

Originally Posted by GatorJH

meh, I'm not totally convinced although one key would have been getting back to my original read on Keith.

You got shot. Even if you figured put the wolves, we couldn't win. Village can't carry so many floaters.

edit: shit phone-quoted wrong post

I'm gonna have to disagree with y'all that this was a terrible village game. Look back to every game the village wins where they didn't get super lucky, and they look like this one. Gotta keep things in mind like we didn't have a final day in this one. 6v3 is not a final day. 4v3 is a final day. I'm happy Rong took the shot because I think when you're vig you gotta shoot, but it's pretty well established that finding wolves on a 6v3 day or any larger days is waaaaaaay harder than on a 4v3 day

So imagine Rong doesn't shoot. Then we have both Bikes and BID dead with 4v3. This would have been a dream scenario. I think Gabe would have been the next lynch and either me or Rong would have been the next nom for an ultimately confusing last day of Gator Keith Wuf or Gator Keith Rong. If the wolves did something as simple as nom Gator instead of me or Rong, I think it would have been cinched up since both Rong and I had tight reasons why we thought each other was quite villagery

Hell, something as simple as me not being a dolt and calling out Bikes when I wanted Gabe dead more could have been what turned everything around. In the early and mid game, you're always killing villagers. Wolves only die from luck or from making some really big mistake. It's on the final days where the pool is narrowed down so much that the village starts slamming the fist down


Ong, as for the crumb, I didn't mean it like that. I didn't expect you to leave a signal. I expected a behavior change or a "I really think so n so is a villager". Saying something like "BID is a villager and I'm not concerned" is way more powerful to me than "because of night action". I meant for you to tell the village who the lookup was without telling the wolves you used a special power

I think it has been forgotten that in my consensus best village game, everybody HATED me. It was said I was playing so shitty so much. Evaluating play is just so hard. It's like this: how good of a game did Gabe play? Well, he got most of the village to find better lynches than himself, so that means he played well. But he was my main wolf tag, so to me, he didn't play so hot. But ultimately, it doesn't matter that I think he was wolfy because he got the job done


I petition to rename the dead thread to the HATERS DEN. Getting killed sucks. It turns everybody into hater Nostrodamuses. It's actually kinda great, it was even said that I was playing terribly regardless of if I was a villager or a wolf. Which is some Grade A hatin since it can almost never be both.

Originally Posted by wufwugy

So imagine Rong doesn't shoot. Then we have both Bikes and BID dead with 4v3. This would have been a dream scenario. I think Gabe would have been the next lynch and either me or Rong would have been the next nom for an ultimately confusing last day of Gator Keith Wuf or Gator Keith Rong. If the wolves did something as simple as nom Gator instead of me or Rong, I think it would have been cinched up since both Rong and I had tight reasons why we thought each other was quite villagery

Accidentally skipped a step dealing with Gray and Scourrge. Doesn't matter, point is one little thing changes everything. Many times a village that looks like it was doomed ends up crushing and a wolf team that looks like it's crushing ends up doomed. IMO people get way too wadded up about lynching villagers in the early/mid game. It's like, who do you expect gets lynched? With a pool so large, wolves have an easy time taking the heat off themselves

Let me put it this way: I wouldn't be surprised if lynching a wolf on a 4v3 day is about 20x easier than on a 12v3 day and 2x/3x easier than on a 6v3 day. Or maybe I'm the Dystopian. I expect the village to "look terrible" until the final day(s)

come on Wuf give us some credit for manipulating the village pool so that we did all stay alive and kept suspicion on all the villagers
.

Originally Posted by wufwugy

So imagine Rong doesn't shoot. Then we have both Bikes and BID dead with 4v3. This would have been a dream scenario. I think Gabe would have been the next lynch and either me or Rong would have been the next nom for an ultimately confusing last day of Gator Keith Wuf or Gator Keith Rong. If the wolves did something as simple as nom Gator instead of me or Rong, I think it would have been cinched up since both Rong and I had tight reasons why we thought each other was quite villagery

read the wolf den ......Gator was never getting nommed despite being a semi confirmed vilager by the seer

Originally Posted by Keith

come on Wuf give us some credit for manipulating the village pool so that we did all stay alive and kept suspicion on all the villagers
.

You guys did great. I'm not trying to take any credit away from you. That would be really dumb

I just wanted to counter the claim that has been made probably 30 times so far, that the village sucked. I feel like it's an odd view to have when the only times I've seen truly sucky villages is when there's no cohesion or too many of them are AFK. In WW, saying a lot of stuff that is wrong or getting a lot of villagers lynched isn't "sucking". If it is, then the village sucks every time it doesn't get super dooper lucky

As wolves, you guys played great. It could be said you couldn't have played better. Keith and Scourrge never got any heat and Gabe never came close to being lynched. Every villager was ultimately wrong by the time the game was over

Originally Posted by Keith

come on Wuf give us some credit for manipulating the village pool so that we did all stay alive and kept suspicion on all the villagers
.

I should add that what I think is truly great wolf play is a team that makes it so that they can survive the final days. They gotta get the noms right, get the suspicions right, get the play right. Even small mistakes with those can let one wolf slip through the cracks in the endgame and then everything else can more easily burst at the seams

Everything is about setting up the endgame. If mechanics and luck aren't a factor, the team that wins is the one that better prepares their endgame position IMO. You guys did a great job of that

wonder how GF thought FTRs WW compared with mafiascum

If I had pulled off Keith's "for sure" post, I'd be pretty a nice mixture of smug and proud about it.

Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

You got shot. Even if you figured put the wolves, we couldn't win. Village can't carry so many floaters.

Meaning, even if you were confident that the wolves were keith, scourrge, and gabe.

How are you going to convince rong, bikes, wuf, GF to do something about it?

Originally Posted by wufwugy

I'm gonna have to disagree with y'all that this was a terrible village game. Look back to every game the village wins where they didn't get super lucky, and they look like this one. Gotta keep things in mind like we didn't have a final day in this one. 6v3 is not a final day. 4v3 is a final day. I'm happy Rong took the shot because I think when you're vig you gotta shoot, but it's pretty well established that finding wolves on a 6v3 day or any larger days is waaaaaaay harder than on a 4v3 day

So imagine Rong doesn't shoot. Then we have both Bikes and BID dead with 4v3. This would have been a dream scenario. I think Gabe would have been the next lynch and either me or Rong would have been the next nom for an ultimately confusing last day of Gator Keith Wuf or Gator Keith Rong. If the wolves did something as simple as nom Gator instead of me or Rong, I think it would have been cinched up since both Rong and I had tight reasons why we thought each other was quite villagery

Hell, something as simple as me not being a dolt and calling out Bikes when I wanted Gabe dead more could have been what turned everything around. In the early and mid game, you're always killing villagers. Wolves only die from luck or from making some really big mistake. It's on the final days where the pool is narrowed down so much that the village starts slamming the fist down


Ong, as for the crumb, I didn't mean it like that. I didn't expect you to leave a signal. I expected a behavior change or a "I really think so n so is a villager". Saying something like "BID is a villager and I'm not concerned" is way more powerful to me than "because of night action". I meant for you to tell the village who the lookup was without telling the wolves you used a special power

I think it has been forgotten that in my consensus best village game, everybody HATED me. It was said I was playing so shitty so much. Evaluating play is just so hard. It's like this: how good of a game did Gabe play? Well, he got most of the village to find better lynches than himself, so that means he played well. But he was my main wolf tag, so to me, he didn't play so hot. But ultimately, it doesn't matter that I think he was wolfy because he got the job done


I petition to rename the dead thread to the HATERS DEN. Getting killed sucks. It turns everybody into hater Nostrodamuses. It's actually kinda great, it was even said that I was playing terribly regardless of if I was a villager or a wolf. Which is some Grade A hatin since it can almost never be both.

Getting killed turned me hater. I turned everyone else.

And I stand by my fury.

PS It's not ong fault for not leaving a message you would decipher, it's yours for not deciphering it. (doubly so when my last like 5 posts were about how it was obviously Gator he peeked)

And this was the worst village by about a hundred miles because bikes, rong, Gator skipped crucial days.

I don't care how capable you are. If you show up day 4 and carry the village, it's on the back of work that was done day 1, 2, and 3. By doing absolutely NO work, you hurt the village twice. By one letting wolves hide behind you and two by not doing anything to find them.

The early days are the best source of info late because so many dead makes them easier to read and the wolves are hard pressed to be laying down traps or tricks day 1 for a day 5 reader.

Part of being a good villager is good village fundamentals. But everyone wants to emulate Gator's village game and it's making it very frustrating.

When bikes says he's going to wait til day 4 before doing work, I read that as, "hey, when I'm on your team, you'll carry me. When I'm not, lol at you."

Also, Anonwolf.

Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

PS It's not ong fault for not leaving a message you would decipher, it's yours for not deciphering it. (doubly so when my last like 5 posts were about how it was obviously Gator he peeked)

I gave Ong too much credit. I thought he knew that using a message like that was a terrible idea. So when he said "because of night action" I was sure to think that he wouldn't have tried to tell the wolves to nom him and instead was talking about the same thing he had been talking about a bunch earlier: that the night action was an attempt to frame Gator, was related to Luco and the nom. He could have easily been saying that he thinks Gator is villager because of the night action framing idea

Maybe the difference here is that I view this game through intentions. I don't care about silly nuggets people think they're dropping. Most of the time they're coincidences and when they're not, they tend to get you in trouble. They can be exploited so easily. However, intentions cannot be exploited that easily. I was looking for Ong's intentions, not some dumb bullshit that he should know would just get him spotted by the wolves

I don't know dude. I recognized immediately Keith's reasoning was wrong headed and I just had to skim the last sentences of each read before Gator's slapped me in the face.

When a dead seer says his read is based on night action, I think the case is closed.

Bonus points when you go back and look how it makes entirely more sense to be Gator with such an obvious sentence over a vague read about keybored which coupled 'could be' and 'for sure'.

And you were right. I guess you understand Ong better than I do

Originally Posted by wufwugy

I gave Ong too much credit. I thought he knew that using a message like that was a terrible idea. So when he said "because of night action" I was sure to think that he wouldn't have tried to tell the wolves to nom him and instead was talking about the same thing he had been talking about a bunch earlier: that the night action was an attempt to frame Gator, was related to Luco and the nom. He could have easily been saying that he thinks Gator is villager because of the night action framing idea

Maybe the difference here is that I view this game through intentions. I don't care about silly nuggets people think they're dropping. Most of the time they're coincidences and when they're not, they tend to get you in trouble. They can be exploited so easily. However, intentions cannot be exploited that easily. I was looking for Ong's intentions, not some dumb bullshit that he should know would just get him spotted by the wolves

This doesn't make any sense.

It was a mistake to frame it as 'based on night action' because the wolves would nom him over it. The wolves nommed him over it. He turns out to be the seer. But obviously he wouldn't make that post unless the thing that got him killed had nothing to do with his seer power.

And after keybored died, he had a peek somewhere, unless he looked up Luco... so why didn't you find that peek.

It just doesn't make a lick of sense.

I also thought the idea he looked up BID was very reasonable, especially now that Ong admits that he agreed with me that BID was more likely special/wolf (which he was). Ultimately I realized he would just discard the statistical value of looking up BID since he thinks he can read him perfectly. Other than that, I think his behavior was strange for somebody who didn't look me up. I was his Day 1 lynch then suddenly on Day 2 I was his most confirmed villager. WTF else am I supposed to think other than "well I asked the seer to look me up a million times, and here's the seer thinking I'm mega wolf then after his lookup he thinks I'm mega villager...."

Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

This doesn't make any sense.

It was a mistake to frame it as 'based on night action' because the wolves would nom him over it. The wolves nommed him over it. He turns out to be the seer. But obviously he wouldn't make that post unless the thing that got him killed had nothing to do with his seer power.

And after keybored died, he had a peek somewhere, unless he looked up Luco... so why didn't you find that peek.

It just doesn't make a lick of sense.

It's this last little leg of logic that I've been calling FPS for years. Ong can make mistakes. When it's obvious he made one, assume he made the obvious mistake.

Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

This doesn't make any sense.

It was a mistake to frame it as 'based on night action' because the wolves would nom him over it. The wolves nommed him over it. He turns out to be the seer. But obviously he wouldn't make that post unless the thing that got him killed had nothing to do with his seer power.

And after keybored died, he had a peek somewhere, unless he looked up Luco... so why didn't you find that peek.

It just doesn't make a lick of sense.

I thought the wolves nommed him because of his behavior. He was posting very un-Ongie. I thought it was obvious to the wolves that he was hiding something and trying to not fuck up like he says he normally does

Gotta say, really missed teh Hoopster and JV this game. They're important for my sanity since Hoops tends to find me being villagery and JV reads me almost perfectly