Congrats to the drug smuggling village

Originally Posted by aubreymcfate

If anyone's interested, here's a convo on self-voting from the Mafiascum forum: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?t=6655

See, I'm still unclear -- if you vote for yourself, is that instant suicide? Or is it just another vote to count? I don't remember playing in a game where someone self-voted (outside of a final vote by a caught wolf).

Originally Posted by NightGizmo

I'm mainly arguing that (a) there was no policy on self-lynching, (b) MMM's self-lynch was not angle-shooting, so (c) the day should not have ended.

How it hurts the village:
1. A villager is dead.
2. The village did not get to choose that he dies.
3. The village didn't know beforehand that he was a villager, and his self-lynch doesn't make him 100% a villager -- his role will be revealed at the end of the day when he's dead.
4. The village loses most of a game-day of discussion time (this is a huge loss to the village).
5. Considering how early in the day the modkill happened, I expect that many villagers were unprepared for nighttime. The vig-shoot choices could have changed, the lynch could have changed, etc.

You're correct in that it hurts the village in those ways. But you shouldn't selflynch.

Originally Posted by aubreymcfate

What's been the deal with self-lynches in the past around here?

I'm pretty sure it's insta modkill and day end.

As far as I'm aware that has always been the case. Self lynching, unless done strategically, has to fuck over the village, otherwise people can sign up in the hope of a special or wolf role, get a reg villager rols and just think fuck this and self lynch.

Originally Posted by rong

As far as I'm aware that has always been the case. Self lynching, unless done strategically, has to fuck over the village, otherwise people can sign up in the hope of a special or wolf role, get a reg villager rols and just think fuck this and self lynch.

I like vanilla villager, it's fun

^ Yeah, I agree. I don't get what wouldn't be fun about it. You get to post without abandon and do detective work. It's the meat of the game. Specials are fun but they're like toppings. I can't imagine wanting to play for the sake of being a special alone.

After being a wolf so many times recently, I was really hoping to be a villager (or special). Last time I got wolf, my immediate response was "Shit, again?!"

if the wolf knew he was looked up, he could snap self lynch. maybe that would be the play in a really unique situation

and rong, if someone ever self lynched because they didnt get a role they wanted, i would ban them from games i hosted. and i would honor bans from games i didnt host. everyone seems cool enough to not do that stuff, since we all play for fun anyway

What about bigred?

Self voting is allowed on mafiascum, it simply counts as a vote against you. I've seen scum and town do it, so it's pretty much a null tell and they just ended up getting called a dick, except on the rare occasion where that villager feels that his death is in the best interests of town.

But yeah it's always been frowned upon here, even when shotglass did it and it helped the village, it still pissed people off. The FTR precedent is certainly modkill.

100% WW record, GOAT.




Just joking wuf, don't get upset.

I missed bigred

for the record ...self lynching used to be allowed , in fact in the game me and gator referred to with rilla and stacks, stacks was a known villager and had been a virtual absentee all game , i was the wolf and had a vote against me, had probably voted for gator , gator self lynched and rilla reasoned that there was no out for a wolf to self lynch so i must be the wolf and lynched me and won the game.
it was kinda annoying to me at the time cos me and jkds had been the last two wolves , facing hidden angel and protected outed seer when JKDS died. I managed to kill the angel and the seer and remain undetected and rilla and gator unconfirmed villagers. Current rules with the self lynch ending the day would have put me and rilla presenting our cases to an absentee villager .

actually found the game .....http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...an-175796.html i got recruited cos i had posted the entire wolf team in the thread , and pointed at the pelion in the dead thread.It was a really interesteing game some of the noobs to WW might enjoy reading.

Originally Posted by OngBonga

Nah I'd prefer to be at a slight disadvantage as wolf if I'm honest, because winning is more satisfying. Rilla is spot on when he points out the wolf win I'm most proud of is not one that I should be so quick to brag about... as nice as it was to win by being cocky, it was imbalanced heavily towards the wolves. It's just my nature to take enjoyment from that one because I have an ego that needs massaging now and then.

Personally I thought you did an awesome job moderating, especially considering it was your first attempt and you had some weird stuff thrown at you (and one self inflicted of course).

Thanks gator! I did my best!

Originally Posted by Keith

for the record ...self lynching used to be allowed , in fact in the game me and gator referred to with rilla and stacks, stacks was a known villager and had been a virtual absentee all game , i was the wolf and had a vote against me, had probably voted for gator , gator self lynched and rilla reasoned that there was no out for a wolf to self lynch so i must be the wolf and lynched me and won the game.
it was kinda annoying to me at the time cos me and jkds had been the last two wolves , facing hidden angel and protected outed seer when JKDS died. I managed to kill the angel and the seer and remain undetected and rilla and gator unconfirmed villagers. Current rules with the self lynch ending the day would have put me and rilla presenting our cases to an absentee villager .

actually found the game .....http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...an-175796.html i got recruited cos i had posted the entire wolf team in the thread , and pointed at the pelion in the dead thread.It was a really interesteing game some of the noobs to WW might enjoy reading.

damnit. I tried to find that game to link to and couldn't. I think we actually changed the rule pretty soon after that.

That was 2009? HOLY SHIT!! I stopped looking when I hit 2010 games because it seemed like that game happened WAY more recently than 2009.

I also can't believe I have been playing these silly mind-fucking games for that long.

Originally Posted by Keith

for the record ...self lynching used to be allowed , in fact in the game me and gator referred to with rilla and stacks, stacks was a known villager and had been a virtual absentee all game , i was the wolf and had a vote against me, had probably voted for gator , gator self lynched and rilla reasoned that there was no out for a wolf to self lynch so i must be the wolf and lynched me and won the game.
it was kinda annoying to me at the time cos me and jkds had been the last two wolves , facing hidden angel and protected outed seer when JKDS died. I managed to kill the angel and the seer and remain undetected and rilla and gator unconfirmed villagers. Current rules with the self lynch ending the day would have put me and rilla presenting our cases to an absentee villager .

actually found the game .....http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...an-175796.html i got recruited cos i had posted the entire wolf team in the thread , and pointed at the pelion in the dead thread.It was a really interesteing game some of the noobs to WW might enjoy reading.

Just re-read that whole thing and it definitely was epic.

yep ....all those games and i got wolf twice and seer once and the one wolf game SDM was the vig stating that he was going to shoot me first ...simply because of previous games lol

how under ev can anyone run when 1/3 of people usually end up with some sort of role....i don't count that game as getting wolf cos i was recruited lol

Originally Posted by OngBonga

Thanks gator! I did my best!

ROFL

Originally Posted by Keith

for the record ...self lynching used to be allowed , in fact in the game me and gator referred to with rilla and stacks, stacks was a known villager and had been a virtual absentee all game , i was the wolf and had a vote against me, had probably voted for gator , gator self lynched and rilla reasoned that there was no out for a wolf to self lynch so i must be the wolf and lynched me and won the game.
it was kinda annoying to me at the time cos me and jkds had been the last two wolves , facing hidden angel and protected outed seer when JKDS died. I managed to kill the angel and the seer and remain undetected and rilla and gator unconfirmed villagers. Current rules with the self lynch ending the day would have put me and rilla presenting our cases to an absentee villager .

actually found the game .....http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...an-175796.html i got recruited cos i had posted the entire wolf team in the thread , and pointed at the pelion in the dead thread.It was a really interesteing game some of the noobs to WW might enjoy reading.

SHit thats not...is that the one right before Staxx got super owned and lost the game on n1?

ye its always crazy to see how long we've been playing games. i was trying to find the first game i played in. not sure exactly when that was, but i found a funny thing that happened in 2006

http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...15#post1257515

lol

actually looking atthe early games , 10 pages was a long game . THe mulligan game (page 6of the ww forum) was a real departure in terms of number of posts .

Oh yeah, I soulread stax and then said spenda was .0001% likely to be a wolf (who then flipped wolf). Lmfao.

Past JKDS seems more fun.

Maybe we take the game too seriously nowadays.

i am horrible at this game and combined with not a lot of time makes for a horrible player even worse.

ty ty to those who carried.

Thanks for the input

I think the issue is mainly spoilers in the dead thread. We played for years and people said whatever they wanted about me and it just rolled off my back, but we also never had a dead thread and everything said was either in game or after the game was over.

I put so much effort into this game that I legit didn't sleep as well as normal whenever a villager was lynched in mid-late game. Then we finally get to the end and I finally get it right and I'm happy and relieved, but then I'm reading the dead thread and feel like I'm getting slapped in the face. It's the feeling of people on the sidelines judging you through the entire thing. At some points during the game I was even thinking "god if im wrong about rilla and jyms i bet everybody is laughing about how dumb i am"

I think we just need to stop spoilers in the dead threads. IIRC they're always funner for the dead players whenever they have to guess too. One of the main reasons I started doing dead threads is it would be neat to give the dead players the chance to try to figure out the game before the living players. I think with a strict no-spoiler policy, the dead threads might be more enjoyable

To be clear, it isn't so much about what people say about me in game or after games, it's just a ton of bricks on you when you see what everybody has been saying about you for weeks, all the while you were doing the best you could. I actually like the in game stuff. I have no idea if Keith really hates me, but he certainly acts like it during the games and it's kinda hilarious. He tried every trick he had to lynch me in my first game, couldn't do it, and hasn't given up since. I love it.

Blows chunks that SDM isn't still around. Watching Keith burst a gasket over him was tops



Dan, I'm sorry you had such trouble modding. FWIW I didn't think too much of it. Most problems are fixable and I think that imba isn't something that hurts enjoyment of games that often (I modded two that were pretty imba against the village, but people never thought it was a problem).

I do want to make one specific point: it's never over until it's over. The game is a warzone, and I believe I've found that the only time the wolves are ever doomed is due to the hidden angel + outed seer type of statistical cinching. This game was close to having that, but it still didn't, and it didn't suffer that much because of it. It certainly made it harder for the wolves, but it didn't doom them. On top of that, it was probably due to the perceived doom of the wolves that they played trickier, and in turn that made the game harder for the village to figure out. One example would be in how we lynched Keith on the second to last day. He was the last remaining "standard wolf", and I believe we had no choice but to kill him even though there were strong suspicions the wolves were playing non-standard. Even then I was so convinced he was a wolf because I've never seen the tricky non-standard play before

Another thing I noticed when modding is that everybody gets it right. At some point in the game, every player is brilliant, they just don't know it. I recall one villager picking the exact wolf team on Day 1. He was the only person in the whole game to get it "so right", but he still went on to not win the endgame. It's because his information simply wasn't reliable and was constantly changing. This applies to the Ong/JKDS thing. I think the wolves freaking out over that was a mistake. Understandable, very understandable, but nobody ever relies on reads like that and keeps it going. By Day 4, nobody even remembers what happened on Day 1.

A lot of what I say about wolfing is due to a fundamental disagreement with how others perceive wolves. For example, in the last game it was said that the village was getting destroyed and the wolves were crushing during the early-mid game. I disagree with that because I think it's a product of the exponential function. When the wolves win, there is always an endgame, and the endgame is far more difficult to survive than any other time. I think that a wolf team can appear like they're getting crushed in the early game, yet still be setting themselves up for endgame tricks that will win it for them at a high rate

The same applies to villagers. They can lynch as many wolves as they want in the early/mid game, but if they're in a bad position in the endgame, they're done. On the flip side, they can lynch a bunch of villagers in the early/mid game, but if they're the "right" kills, it can set them up for endgame success really well

Originally Posted by aubreymcfate

What's been the deal with self-lynches in the past around here?

I self-lynched in one of my first games when I thought I was playing a super obvious villager by posting very openly (not in the style of how I play now, totally clueless just producing a lot of volume) and I got pissed that people wanted to lynch me anyway so I self-lynched. People gave me a lot of crap for that afterwards. I think it's an instinctive thing to do, especially for beginning players who feel misunderstood. Imo rong made a good decision there.


@hoopy:
Your attitude towards wuf didn't play into your death though. At least not for me, I can't speak for ong and gator but I was the biggest pushing factor to kill you for being a special and possible seer. I noticed your attitude was way different than normal, a lot more authoritive, you HAD to be a special. I just wasn't sure if you were actually the seer.

Agreed on the spoilers. Ong was being very careful but jv and Rong were less so..

Originally Posted by wufwugy

I think we just need to stop spoilers in the dead threads. IIRC they're always funner for the dead players whenever they have to guess too. One of the main reasons I started doing dead threads is it would be neat to give the dead players the chance to try to figure out the game before the living players. I think with a strict no-spoiler policy, the dead threads might be more enjoyable

I totally agree with this point. When you've spent so much time and put so much effort in to a game when you go deep, its a real anticlimax to walk into the dead thread and find out that the wolves are x yand z. Let the dead play along, let them form their own opinions of the wolf team. I guess the dead wolves shouldn't participate ...or maybe they could run a bit of deception in the dead thread.

To be clear, it isn't so much about what people say about me in game or after games, it's just a ton of bricks on you when you see what everybody has been saying about you for weeks, all the while you were doing the best you could. I actually like the in game stuff. I have no idea if Keith really hates me, but he certainly acts like it during the games and it's kinda hilarious. He tried every trick he had to lynch me in my first game, couldn't do it, and hasn't given up since. I love it.

Blows chunks that SDM isn't still around. Watching Keith burst a gasket over him was tops

I have fun when i play , If i'm not having fun i wouldn't sign up , and it should be the same for everyone else. some people find its not for them and they only play one game.

Cuppla points.

I loved modding, in spite of finding it quite stressful, I'd defo do it again.

I think the initial dead thread spoilers were accidental, or maybe came up as I was discussing whether or not to modkill people or explaining some action or other. Next time I won't give spoilers. I think my insecurities about modding led me to inadvertently give away stuff when trying to justify my actions. I was actually disappointed myself that I had no reason to give gator a death scene as I'd planned his from the start.

I was trying to not spoil it, but suddenly luco seemed to be talking as if he already knew somehow so I went along. It's possible I spoiled it in a subtle way in a post of mine but didn't realize. I always want to know immediately after dying personally, which is why I am less careful with it. Another problem is that I can basically post almost nothing of my thinking because it's going to imply the wolves. But if everyone likes the suspense better, I'll be more careful in the future and of course we should all be.

I agree, but it will take pretty strong restraint from wolves and the mod to not accidentally give away info. The first few pages of that thread reveales rilla was a villager

Wuf, in the game, it's not about getting it right. It's an iterative process. Aubrey showed it for the wolf side. If it's not working, change up and re-apply. If your reads aren't quite right, re-read. If your methods aren't delivering results, re-method.

On day 1, I was on ong and aubrey, but I didn't know they were wolves. When I was on Gator, I was confident but I didn't know. You get to be wrong a lot and that means you will be wrong a lot. So you should be able to drop everything and pick up something new. (Even mid-day, mind you)

Hence why I drop Ong and Aubrey and move over to eug. Or why I drop JV and pick up daven. If it sounds like a good idea, gotta test run it at least a little.

Even with jyms, it didn't bother me that I was wrong. I read him as I always will, that it didn't pan out isn't a reflection on my process or my conclusions.

It's a game of imperfect information, after all. Even soulreads aren't soulreads.

Also, with modkills, that we did it yesterday doesn't mean we should do it tomorrow.

signed,
The guy who started the trend.

P.S. SDM would be pleased to hear we eventually came to his side on this issue.

Maybe the wolves can have their own dead thread? I'm like you jv, I wanna know.ASAP, mostly because I enjoy watching their strategy more than playing detective.

I suspect spoilers would make the dead thread better for the dead people.

Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

I suspect spoilers would make the dead thread better for the dead people.

I would agree with this, especially because I expect to be there pretty quickly going forward.

obvious solution is a dead game thread and a dead spoiler thread , when the mod sends the death pm he asks whether you want to join the dead game thread or the dead spoiler thread. you get to chose to go to one or the other. wolves could go to the spoiler thread. when you send the choice back you get sent the link to the thread you chose.

Originally Posted by GatorJH

I would agree with this, especially because I expect to be there pretty quickly going forward.

Your silver tongue and slippery body will have you seeing many more days than you should.

Originally Posted by rong

Maybe the wolves can have their own dead thread? I'm like you jv, I wanna know.ASAP, mostly because I enjoy watching their strategy more than playing detective.

It's only gonna be 1-2 wolves and the mod though if there is a separate wolf dead thread. I'm not sure what a good solution would that satisfies both the people interesting in the strategy aspect like us and other people who get more enjoyment from the ongoing detectivework until the game is over.

Originally Posted by jackvance

It's only gonna be 1-2 wolves and the mod though if there is a separate wolf dead thread. I'm not sure what a good solution would that satisfies both the people interesting in the strategy aspect like us and other people who get more enjoyment from the ongoing detectivework until the game is over.

Spoiler alert, don't hit the dead thread if you don't want to know.

It would be something cool to see if the dead can puzzle it out better than the living, but I doubt the dead will find reason to do the work. There's just nothing in it if you can't scratch your itch with a lynch or somesuch.

Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

Also, with modkills, that we did it yesterday doesn't mean we should do it tomorrow.

signed,
The guy who started the trend.

P.S. SDM would be pleased to hear we eventually came to his side on this issue.

Link plz, I dont remember this AT ALL, but it sounds hilarious.

I think the solution is that you plebs just need to admit that you don't understand my demi-god level methodology

I'm like the anti-gabe. He has amazing reads but no methodology to speak of. I have crazy reads but the methodology squeezes the truth out eventually


Pop quiz: how much of that was a joke?

Originally Posted by surviva316

Is there a way to make Quick Topic not suck? I can't get it to sort from oldest to newest. I can get that PAGE to sort oldest to newest, but I still have to click back three hundred million fuckin pages before I can start reading the thread.

Yeah quicktopic is absolutely horrible. Once a thread hits around 600 posts the option to show all posts on one page disappears.

Originally Posted by wufwugy

I think the solution is that you plebs just need to admit that you don't understand my demi-god level methodology

I'm like the anti-gabe. He has amazing reads but no methodology to speak of. I have crazy reads but the methodology squeezes the truth out eventually


Pop quiz: how much of that was a joke?

It's always hard to tell with you.

Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

Wuf, in the game, it's not about getting it right. It's an iterative process. Aubrey showed it for the wolf side. If it's not working, change up and re-apply. If your reads aren't quite right, re-read. If your methods aren't delivering results, re-method.

On day 1, I was on ong and aubrey, but I didn't know they were wolves. When I was on Gator, I was confident but I didn't know. You get to be wrong a lot and that means you will be wrong a lot. So you should be able to drop everything and pick up something new. (Even mid-day, mind you)

Hence why I drop Ong and Aubrey and move over to eug. Or why I drop JV and pick up daven. If it sounds like a good idea, gotta test run it at least a little.

Even with jyms, it didn't bother me that I was wrong. I read him as I always will, that it didn't pan out isn't a reflection on my process or my conclusions.

It's a game of imperfect information, after all. Even soulreads aren't soulreads.

Yep

Yep yep yep

There's a difference between just having an idea and having such confidence in an idea being right that you can back it up well enough to get everybody else on your side AND it was the "right" idea all along.

Originally Posted by jackvance

It's always hard to tell with you.

I was serious about the demi-god part but joking about the pop quiz part. There is no quiz

You still get an F though

k so when's the next game, like tmrw rite? sign me up.

Reading dead thread and a few comments

- I didn't know the best way to deal with the FPS/JV under bus/Gator vs Rilla thing once it got to the last few days. One reason is that I tried to deal with it early (we all did), and I remember thinking that we were going to lynch one of Rilla and Gator, both of whom I was okay with, then could probably lynch the other, but instead Bikes somehow got killed. So then we open the day with the one player who would be the wolf in a standard game (who was never that scrutinized the entire game) and the two who could be wolf if it was non-standard. And both of those non-standard wolves had some really fantastic cases for their villageriness

Something I didn't think could be done is lynch one of Rilla/Gator before Keith because then the final day is about deciding if it's a standard or non-standard game. By lynching Keith first, I could then KNOW what kind of game it was, and reevaluate based on that knowledge. One thing I know about myself is I cannot think straight with any clutter, so killing Keith would help me be able to evaluate the JV dynamic best

Originally Posted by Ong

I started off mocking wuf, now I feel bad for him. It's a nightmare for him, this game is. I still can't shake off the feeling that he's going to get it right in the end. Part of me hopes he's on some crazy level where he knows gator is the wolf, but he doesn't think he can get him lynched, so he's tricking gator into leaving wuf around until final day, where he'll BAM slap a insta vote down for gator and some already prepared wall of text explaining how fucking awesome he's played. Do it wuf.

What? Me? Naw

An elephant never forgets this game. You know, the seer one, where Gator and his buddies told me how much they laughed at me calling him a probable villager and the final mislynch was stated to have been because I said that

REVENGE IS MIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINE

Seriously though, I didn't "know" Gator was anything. But I did assume he would think I was helping him

Originally Posted by jv

The wuf-keith battle that is going to happen now should be good.

Sorry it didn't happen. I didn't even think it was worth arguing with him since the only other options were the "JV under bus" options, and I had read through the period and thought it was reasonable to think it didn't happen

Originally Posted by jv

No, wuf is making gross generalizations, he seems to do after he knows something is true, or thinks something is true.

I do it because it's effective to step back and look at the macro picture and find patterns. I believe that everything is revealed in patterns. My last two points about Gator were patterns. It's important to make sure the interpretation of the patterns is accurate, and that's hard to do and I usually get it wrong, but I still try

The comment was in response to my claim that all Aubrey did was piggback and defend herself. I didn't word it the best, but the point I was making is accurate. Aubrey did a lot more than just those two things, but when her entire game is laid out, she had a pattern of aggressive defenses against most suspicions, and a pattern of joining wagons late. I wish I had actually noticed those patterns earlier. Instead my area of focus was elsewhere

Originally Posted by rong

Lol Aubrey, you should know wuf by now. He's in an egospiral, where regardless of what happens, he will be assuming he understands everything and that it all fits in with his theory. I've seen this before with him. There's no stopping him now. I wouldn't take it personally. In his current mood, everyone is inferior to his amazing self.

Do I really come off like that? I don't mean to. I'll try to be aware of it

Originally Posted by daven

is wuf claiming he knew aubrey was wolf, wasn't he 100% that the team was rilla/jyms?!

I don't remember exactly what I said about that, but I think a reason I use hyperbole is because I'm trying to convince others to follow me. So I have to pump it up. The truth of my thoughts were that the Rilla/Jyms dynamic moved to the front of the investigation line, while Aubrey was put on the shelf but not taken off.

I think in the future I'll have to try to not push things so aggressively. I use to be a lot worse about it. There was a game before you started playing where I got Gator lynched on Day 2, and the wolves would likely not have won if I didn't do that. I have definitely toned it down since then when it comes to trying to convince people to follow me. I should tone it down more though


BTW most of the dead thread isn't a problem at all. And honestly, I think I was in a rather emotionally vulnerable position yesterday because I was FUMING when Rilla posted those gifs. I thought he was the wolf and it made. no. sense. what. so. ever. I guess I didn't have it in me to handle getting really upset again

Haha I so nearly posted in response to those gifs of rilla's, something like "YEEEEAAAAAASSSHHHHH you are fucking awesome rilla" just to fuck with you wuf, but felt it was a bit rude so held back.

LOL

It's probably good you didn't do that. I haven't been that mad in a long time. Like "punch hole in wall" mad. I've only been that mad once before, and obv it was during a 30bi downswing

BTW Dan, you can consider this payback for what I did in the last game. I was definitely in the wrong about that. I'm not saying you're now wrong about something, just making a statement about the things with this game that made me feel bad

Im gonna have a lot more fun looking at your posts as hyperbole instead of egospirals. I seriously never knew, and reading some of the posts now I realize ive missed quite a bit of humor.

Originally Posted by JKDS

Im gonna have a lot more fun looking at your posts as hyperbole instead of egospirals. I seriously never knew, and reading some of the posts now I realize ive missed quite a bit of humor.

Jv I was nowhere near certain when I joined the dead thread, but there were posts from you and Rong on my read through that kinda gave it away (maybe because I was already on the right track?). I ran with it from there though and will refrain from that in future for sure.

It's always going to be hard to discuss the game in the dead thread, as a wolf, without giving things away so I guess the best thing is simply to accept that the dead thread may contain spoilers?

Originally Posted by jackvance

Yeah quicktopic is absolutely horrible. Once a thread hits around 600 posts the option to show all posts on one page disappears.

True but see my earlier post on how to show up to 600 at a time

But I don't want you to feel bad, I want to beat you.

Dead thread spoiler posts:

Rong #19(!) JV is basicaly saying the same thing as you ong re the game being not being balanced and favouring the village. I still think that had the first day panned out differently you guys woud have a different perspective.

^JV is wolfin

Rong #31 Also, I very nearly modkilled both bikes and Gabe. I was really torn on what to do. You can thank Ong for their survival, I really wanted to talk to someone before I did it. I PMd JKDS to discuss it with him but he wasn't around and Ong, who if anything would have been biased toward the wolves, said he thought modkilling them was harsh. I'm still not sure on it at all.

^ Bikes & Gabe town

JV #53 Maybe I'm a bit pessimistic though, if bikes dies when we bw him, the game would have still been interesting. I was gonna die anyway but there would have been better cover for our team.

Let's see, now we have 13 ppl, of which 4 are confirmed and a few strong villager likeness (bikes+NG/rilla, let's call it 2 total). Assuming no more angel save surprises, wolf team needs 6 days to kill all the confirmeds. At that time the game is won. So they also need 5 scapegoats they can lynch. We have Savy, MMM, jyms maybe, Keith idk. Running real short there. And in my experience it only becomes easier for the village to figure everything out as the game progresses and gets down to fewer people. I think it's over almost regardless of how things go down at this point.

^ Bikes, NG, Rilla, Savy, MMM, Jyms & Keith town lololololol

Rong #150 Luco has turned into a great player
and ong #162 Since dan has already said he's turning into a great player, it's probably obvious now who one of the wolves are.

^ Gator wolfin

This was all before I got there guys

i personally found it fine to have spoilers. of course that means the thread is gonna be full of confirmation bias, but who cares? it's entertaining for the viewer, like when you can see everybody's hole cards on TV. so far the only argument against it seems to be "it might hurt wuf's feelings".

ok for those who are a wee bit more srs about the game might want to, post-mortem, figure it out on their own. i'm def not one of those i reckon.

Haha good point Eug. Aside fro Wuf, does anyone else not want spoilers in the dead thread?

A no spoilers rule would be cool, but much like my bladder there will always be accidental leakage.

If you're dead set on no spoilers, well then you'll have two threads to look forward to reading at the end

Originally Posted by rong

Haha good point Eug. Aside fro Wuf, does anyone else not want spoilers in the dead thread?

Why wasn't I told about the dead thread? I feel unwanted.

Originally Posted by ImSavy

Why wasn't I told about the dead thread? I feel unwanted.

umm... rong?

Whoopsy!

Savy I thought we'd pissed you off or something and that's why you never joined the dead thread.

I think we've all learnt something here. Wuf that he comes across as an egomaniac, everyone else that he actually isn't one, all that Gator is a slippery bastard and never to be trusted, me that I am more of a buddha style god and less like the smiting Christian type, so instead of being infallible I'm more working in mysterious ways to ensure a positive outcome of growth and transformation for all around me.

That's two people's feelings hurt in connection with the dead thread.

Well all I can say is...

I hate to tell you this but I wasn't being all that serious.

neither am i.

and the last post is sincere.

Originally Posted by rong

I think we've all learnt something here. Wuf that he comes across as an egomaniac, everyone else that he actually isn't one, all that Gator is a slippery bastard and never to be trusted, me that I am more of a buddha style god and less like the smiting Christian type, so instead of being infallible I'm more working in mysterious ways to ensure a positive outcome of growth and transformation for all around me.

I feel like I should be making a fat joke here.

Rong is very self conscious of his figure, so I think that might be crossing the line and might deeply offend him and lead to him never modding a werewolf game again.

As the star of the fat thread I think it's safe to assume that even without thick skin I have enough protection.