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whats the play for THE CAGE on ACR

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  1. #1

    Default whats the play for THE CAGE on ACR

    its a tournament where you get $500 chips.

    there are 4 blind levels, 1/2 , 2/5 , 5/10 and 10/20. blind levels are 60mins each.

    the tournament ends at 4 hours.

    your "prize" for still being in, is $1 per chip in your stack. how does that work for EV?

    would you play a cash style based on stack size? this is an interesting style of tourney just want to see what you guys think our play should be.
    "The harder you work, the luckier you get." ~ courtesy of my fortune cookie from china king

    "One of the best pieces of advice I've ever read in this forum was three words long...

    bet fucking fold." Ong
  2. #2
    Renton's Avatar
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    $EV is directly equal to CEV. There are no ICM considerations. However, it could still be correct to fold in a slightly profitable spot, because you can bust out, unlike in a cash game. If you're seated at an especially good table, pass on small edges so you'll get more bang for your rake. A soft table will play like a very low rake cash game.
  3. #3
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
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    So you get 500 $1 chips?
    I'm confused as to how you pay 1/2 blinds with $500 chips.
    I'm assuming the chips are all of the same denomination, since the payout is per-chip.

    Payout is $1 per chip... so your starting value in the event is $500?
    What's the buy-in?

    I'm probably derping here, but my confusion is genuine.

    ***
    Does anyone know how to compare cash-game rake to tournament rake?

    Tournament rake is clearly a set number, but in cash games the number from each pot is a function of pot-size.
    What's the method for comparing the two? There must be one.

    ***
    I think Renton pegged this setup pretty well. You want to avoid going bust, which is antithetical to cash-game play. Also, there is no pay bump for moving up in rank, so the "go big or go home" style will be less important.

    There is no bubble.

    Normal MTTs and SNGs are about taking a lot of small losses so you can get that 1 big win. With no big win for 1st place, this means you probably want to treat the entire 4-hour event as though it's early on D1 of a huge event.

    Play tight; chip up; don't go broke.
  4. #4
    that's what I thought. yea the buyin is $500
    "The harder you work, the luckier you get." ~ courtesy of my fortune cookie from china king

    "One of the best pieces of advice I've ever read in this forum was three words long...

    bet fucking fold." Ong
  5. #5
    Renton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey View Post
    Does anyone know how to compare cash-game rake to tournament rake?

    Tournament rake is clearly a set number, but in cash games the number from each pot is a function of pot-size.
    What's the method for comparing the two? There must be one.
    I've spent a decent amount of energy theorizing about this. The main thing I have discovered is that rake is something you consider BEFORE participating in a game, and once you've paid it already, it's a sunk cost that has no bearing in strategy from this point forward.

    Cash game example. If you're in a live 2/5 game, and there's a raise to 25 dollars and two callers before you. Action is on you in the BB, and you're deciding whether to call 20 to play for a 102 pot before rake. If you call, the pot will be raked 7 dollars, and be capped.

    You don't consider what your actual contribution to this rake will be. You only consider that when you call you will need to extract 20 dollars worth of equity from the 95 dollar pot. Once you call, all decision making from that point forward will be a comparison of which play MAXIMIZES your equity in that 95 dollar pot. There will be decision points where neither choice beats the rake, but you will choose the lesser of two evils. Rake isn't consider at all once it is in the past.


    So you can see what implications this has for tournaments. Take a winner-take-all HU SNG for example. The only decision you have that considers the rake is whether to play the tourney to begin with. Once you play, the rake is a sunk cost that is never considered again.

    Suppose you choose to play, and villain open shoves the first hand. What does your equity need to be to call? Clearly if you called with exactly the strength of hand that is necessary to be +CEV, you would lose in $ equity when considering the rake, since you had no EV edge in that pot. But if you fold, you'll cede some equity to your opponent and the cost might be too great. It is possible that one losing play is better than the other losing play.

    In essence you call that all in with all hands for which your win% of the SNG is higher than your win% had you folded. Tournament indifference points are always relative in this way.
    Last edited by Renton; 02-22-2015 at 09:13 PM.
  6. #6
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by acg123 View Post
    that's what I thought. yea the buyin is $500
    So the buy-in is $500.
    You start with 500 @ $1 chips.

    No chips ever leave the event, and you are paid your direct value in chips at the end of 4 hours?

    So it's a rake-free event?

    What gives?

    Quote Originally Posted by Renton View Post
    I've spent a decent amount of energy theorizing about this. The main thing I have discovered is that rake is something you consider BEFORE participating in a game, and once you've paid it already, it's a sunk cost that has no bearing in strategy from this point forward.
    That's what I'm trying to figure out. If it's a rake-free event, then how does the host make a cut?
    If it's a rake-free event with the only drawback that there's no re-buy, then I bet there's a lot of dead money out there just waiting to go broke and divide among the rest.
    Last edited by MadMojoMonkey; 02-23-2015 at 10:43 PM.
  7. #7
    Renton's Avatar
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    There's almost certainly a flat rake that he failed to mention, like 500+30 or something. Though it might be rake-free to promote the new format.
  8. #8
    There is rake. Sorry i forgot to mention that. Idk how much ill check when i get home.

    buyin is $500+$25

    the tourney ends after 4 hours. you are awarded $1 for every chip in your stack.
    Last edited by acg123; 03-01-2015 at 11:26 AM.

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