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Line check with that pesky 3rd best starting hand pre.

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  1. #1

    Default Line check with that pesky 3rd best starting hand pre.

    $150 Tournament Live Casino
    52 entrants
    8k starting stacks.
    Blinds 200/400 Level 5

    Villain is in CO (8k). Sat down 10 minutes before (late reg) and is young (25?). Dealer asked if he had played before because he acted out of turn (they give you a 1 hand penalty after warning). Villain stated that "it had been a long time."

    Hero has almost doubled his starting stack to 15k
    Hero is UTG with AcKc
    I open to 1400.
    Folded to Villain and he raises to 3600......

    This is almost half of his stack but a pretty standard sizing for a 3bet.

    Hero???
  2. #2
    It depends on how keep you are playing AKs, I mean taking risks with it. I would call, and see what the flop brings. I don't think he'll be folding here, if you come over the top, so you would be playing for half your stack.

    How many players left at that point?
    The Time To Act Is Now...
  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by PokerKing View Post
    It depends on how keep you are playing AKs, I mean taking risks with it. I would call, and see what the flop brings. I don't think he'll be folding here, if you come over the top, so you would be playing for half your stack.

    How many players left at that point?
    40 players remained.

    Is it + EV to call and fold if I miss the flop?
  4. #4
    You will hit top pair 1 out of 3 times, so calling to see if you hit is not profitable. I would decide on reads if its better to push or fold. Did you notice aany read on him?
  5. #5
    Renton's Avatar
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    just get it in, its 40 big blinds and he's probably a donk. You definitely have nonzero % fold equity and he can definitely have hands like 99/AQ.
  6. #6
    I agree, I'd just get 'em in. There's a non-zero chance that opp will fold and he may well be doing this with hands that you're ahead of. I might even put something like KQ in his range.

    One question, why raise 3.5x BB preflop? I'd prefer 2.25-2.5x to keep the pot a little smaller in case you want to c-bet a missed flop.
  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by taipan168 View Post
    One question, why raise 3.5x BB preflop? I'd prefer 2.25-2.5x to keep the pot a little smaller in case you want to c-bet a missed flop.
    This is something I'm having problems with in my game. I raise to much PF (3-4xBB), making the pot to big. But I just don't like to many players into the pot. I see a lot of players raising 2xBB which I can understand on the high levels, but on the small levels it invites to many players I think. Or maybe I'm just playing the wrong tours
    The Time To Act Is Now...
  8. #8
    Renton's Avatar
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    With a hand like this you should just open for 1200 or 1400 or whatever the table's been calling. I see no need to open for smaller than 3x in loose donkish live tourneys. The long run never comes in live tournaments so don't worry about balancing.
  9. #9
    Villain has 20 bigs and we have the top of our opening range ...................I PLAY ALL MY WAGERING DISCS !
  10. #10
    Sabr1988's Avatar
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    Get it in pre for sure.
    With patience you win
  11. #11
    Not folding not calling. Hmm that kinda narrows it down.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by paratrooper99 View Post
    Blinds 200/400 Level 5

    Villain is in CO (8k).
    Hero has almost doubled his starting stack to 15k
    shove. Nothing else makes any sense. Calling would be even worse than folding here.

    absolute worst case scenario villain has aces and we don't suckout and we still have 18bb to play with.
    More likely you get it in flipping/ahead or he folds and you take down a decent pot for free.
  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by paratrooper99 View Post
    40 players remained.

    Is it + EV to call and fold if I miss the flop?
    Terrible plan.
  14. #14
    I think that the villain has AQ or pocket pair, but I don't think that he has AA, so for my opinion you should call and see the flop, or risk and go all in. However, AK are very good cards, and the chances to win this hand are big because your cards are also suited.
  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by STILL_mkd View Post
    I think that the villain has AQ or pocket pair, but I don't think that he has AA, so for my opinion you should call and see the flop, or risk and go all in. However, AK are very good cards, and the chances to win this hand are big because your cards are also suited.
    Your approach is wrong. Stop putting villain on a hand, and start putting him on a range. AQ/pp is not a particularly likely range for any villain.

    Villain 3bet pre. AA is most certainly in his range. He probably hasn't got it because we have a blocker, there's only 3 combos of AA (and KK), compared to 6 of QQ and JJ, which makes it 2x as likely for him to have QQ or JJ rather than KK or AA. But he can still have them, so saying "I don't think he has AA" is basically as useful as saying "I don't think he has 78s" or "I don't think he has a cat". You're guessing. Don't guess. Put AA in his range, because he can certainly have it. On this occasion, the presence of AA in his range is not make or break, but it might be if villain is particularly tight. AK is a fold if villain is 3betting only QQ+ AK, but it wouldn't be if you convince yourself AA isn't part of his range for whatever reason you make that determination.

    tl;dr - put villain on a realistic range, and make your decisions based on how your hand holds up against that range.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong

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