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How to beat 9-max $0.44+$0.06 NLHE SNGs in Poker Stars?

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  1. #1

    Question How to beat 9-max $0.44+$0.06 NLHE SNGs in Poker Stars?

    Could someone please advice me on how to beat 9-max $0.44+$0.06 NLHE SNGs in Poker Stars? I've played 34 of these SNGs and I'm down almost 3 EUR (~ 6 buy-ins). Could be worse, but I feel I need some help in order to get profitable.

    Here's my last SNG: https://ghostbin.com/paste/anwd6
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  2. #2
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    PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 0.5 Tournament, 15/30 Blinds (8 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php


    Hero (SB) (t1,706)
    BB (t1,800)
    UTG (t1,430)
    UTG+1 (t1,450)
    MP1 (t2,900)
    MP2 (t1,625)
    CO (t1,124)
    Button (t1,465)


    Hero's M: 37.91


    Preflop: Hero is SB with 10, J
    6 folds, Hero calls t15, BB raises to t90, 1 fold


    Total pot: t60


    Results below:
    Spoiler:

    BB didn't show


    looks like that should have been a raise rather than completing , showing weakness and having to fold to the raise

    PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 0.5 Tournament, 15/30 Blinds (7 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php


    Hero (CO) (t1,676)
    Button (t1,815)
    SB (t1,400)
    BB (t4,395)
    UTG (t1,625)
    MP1 (t1,124)
    MP2 (t1,465)


    Hero's M: 37.24


    Preflop: Hero is CO with A, 10
    3 folds, Hero raises to t120, 3 folds


    Total pot: t75


    Results below:
    Spoiler:

    Hero didn't show A, 10.


    raise is probably 1bb to big

    PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 0.5 Tournament, 15/30 Blinds (7 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from http://www.flopturnriver.com/


    Hero (BB) (t1,721)
    UTG (t1,635)
    MP1 (t1,385)
    MP2 (t4,515)
    CO (t1,730)
    Button (t1,079)
    SB (t1,435)


    Hero's M: 38.24


    Preflop: Hero is BB with J, Q
    UTG raises to t90, 1 fold, MP2 calls t90, 3 folds, Hero calls t60


    Flop: (t285) 9, 4, K (3 players)
    Hero checks, UTG bets t120, 1 fold, Hero folds


    Total pot: t285


    Results below:
    Spoiler:

    UTG didn't show


    I think i'd probably call the flop bet and see a turn. if we hit the gutshot there's a good chance to make a lot of chips as K probably hit UTG's range .

    PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 0.5 Tournament, 25/50 Blinds (7 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from http://flopturnriver.com


    Hero (SB) (t1,631)
    BB (t1,830)
    UTG (t1,385)
    MP1 (t4,425)
    MP2 (t1,730)
    CO (t1,079)
    Button (t1,420)


    Hero's M: 21.75


    Preflop: Hero is SB with 8, J
    6 folds


    Total pot: t50


    Results below:
    Spoiler:

    BB didn't show


    raising to steal here preflop.


    PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 0.5 Tournament, 25/50 Blinds (7 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from http://flopturnriver.com


    Hero (Button) (t1,606)
    SB (t1,855)
    BB (t1,385)
    UTG (t4,425)
    MP1 (t1,730)
    MP2 (t1,079)
    CO (t1,420)


    Hero's M: 21.41


    Preflop: Hero is Button with J, Q
    2 folds, MP2 calls t50, 1 fold, Hero raises to t200, 2 folds, MP2 calls t150


    Flop: (t475) Q, 8, 6 (2 players)
    MP2 checks, Hero bets t300, MP2 calls t300


    Turn: (t1,075) 4 (2 players)
    MP2 checks, Hero bets t1,106 (All-In), MP2 calls t579 (All-In)


    River: (t2,233) 9 (2 players, 2 all-in)


    Total pot: t2,233


    Results below:
    Spoiler:

    Hero had J, Q (one pair, Queens).
    MP2 had 3, 2 (flush, Queen high).
    Outcome: MP2 won t2,233


    think your pre raise vs this guy was probably too big, flop bet was too big as you have TP meh kicker and betting this large you are effectively playing for stacks on a really drawy board . lots of potential straight and gutshot draws there.

    PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 0.5 Tournament, 50/100 Blinds (5 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php


    Hero (BB) (t954)
    UTG (t3,570)
    MP (t1,160)
    Button (t4,100)
    SB (t3,716)


    Hero's M: 6.36


    Preflop: Hero is BB with 4, 6
    UTG raises to t200, 2 folds, SB calls t150, Hero calls t100


    Flop: (t600) 8, A, 10 (3 players)
    SB bets t200, Hero folds, UTG calls t200


    Turn: (t1,000) 9 (2 players)
    SB bets t500, UTG calls t500


    River: (t2,000) 7 (2 players)
    SB bets t800, 1 fold


    Total pot: t2,000


    Results below:
    Spoiler:

    SB didn't show


    calling the flop raise with junk is spewing chips especially as you only have 10bb stack

    the very next hand, so the 100 chips you spewed last hand would have given you an extra 200 chips here.

    PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 0.5 Tournament, 75/150 Blinds (4 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php


    Hero (UTG) (t1,508)
    Button (t1,010)
    SB (t4,100)
    BB (t6,882)


    Hero's M: 6.70


    Preflop: Hero is UTG with 10, J
    Hero raises to t1,508 (All-In), 2 folds, BB calls t1,358


    Flop: (t3,091) K, Q, 3 (2 players, 1 all-in)


    Turn: (t3,091) J (2 players, 1 all-in)


    River: (t3,091) 2 (2 players, 1 all-in)


    Total pot: t3,091


    Results below:
    Spoiler:

    BB had J, Q (two pair, Queens and Jacks).
    Hero had 10, J (one pair, Jacks).
    Outcome: BB won t3,091





    although push/fold charts seem to have this as a shove , not sure how icm considerations play here. don't think i'd have opened here
  3. #3
    Thanks for taking the time to comment those hands. I'll keep your tips in mind in future tournaments. Hopefully I'll see some improvement. =) There probably isn't an iOS push/fold app with ICM considerations. Maybe I can simulate the ICM on bubble by using the chart for my stack+3BB.
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  4. #4
    OngBonga's Avatar
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    I disagree with keith on the QJ hand.

    Villain l/c's 23s, calls turn at pot size with flush draw, this is absolutely how we should be playing against this guy. I assume he's standing out as a bad player, and if that's the case, I see no problem with the way you played the QJ.

    I otherwise agree with keith's analysis.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  5. #5
    I did some thinking on that QJo vs 32s hand. MP2 actually had a bit over half pot to call on the turn as I had a bigger stack. I had 62.2% equity preflop where I raised to 4 BB. I had 62% on flop where I bet 2/3 pot. I had 72.7% on the turn where I shoved and MP2 had 1/2 pot to call all-in. Ofcourse I didn't know what MP2 had. I only had 15 hands on MP2, but seemed tight. It was the second time MP2 limped and then called a raise to 4 BB.

    MP2 stats: 22 BB, 13% VPiP, 7% PFR, 0% 3bet, 0% ATS, 100% BB fold vs. steal, 0% WTSD (over 15 hands).
    Hero stats: 32 BB, 23% VPiP, 18% PFR, 7% 3bet, 41% ATS, 59% BB fold vs. steal, 24% WTSD (over 442 hands with 6-7pl).
  6. #6
    Hand 1:
    Preflop: Hero is SB with 10, J
    6 folds, Hero calls t15, BB raises to t90, 1 fold
    Why are we even playing this hand? We've invested 1% of our stack here with the SB. Our hand is unsuited, and we're heads up. We're very unlikely to win a large pot, and I just don't see any value in winning small pots early in SNG's. Just fold.

    Hand 2:
    Preflop: Hero is CO with A, 10
    3 folds, Hero raises to t120, 3 folds
    Agree with Keith that a smaller raise would be better.

    Hand 3:
    Preflop: Hero is BB with J, Q
    UTG raises to t90, 1 fold, MP2 calls t90, 3 folds, Hero calls t60
    FOLD! Same as hand 1. We have an unsuited, easily dominated hand against an upfront raiser and a cold caller, both of whom have position on us. SPR is about 5, which kinda blows for our likely post-flop holdings.

    I think i'd probably call the flop bet and see a turn. if we hit the gutshot there's a good chance to make a lot of chips as K probably hit UTG's range .
    You're gonna have to explain this one to me. Max implied odds here are like 15 to 1, and you're draw is only about 11 to 1. Technically profitable if you assume that the villain pays you off every single time. Realistically, this feels pretty break-even-ish. Possibly even leaky.

    Preflop: Hero is SB with 8, J
    6 folds
    I don't mind this. Though I don't mind Keith's advice of raising to steal either. I don't think that 50 is a big enough incentive to be stealing with a hand this weak, but it's borderline, so I guess it's ok either way.

    Preflop: Hero is Button with J, Q
    2 folds, MP2 calls t50, 1 fold, Hero raises to t200, 2 folds, MP2 calls t150
    I think this one was either played fine, or you should have folded pre-flop. Again, a weak, easily dominated, unsuited hand isn't the type of holding I want to be making stack-committing raises with. Your PF raise was 20% of the effective stacks. You're forced to go broke with any top pair hand. So personally, I'm folding this one preflop.

    think your pre raise vs this guy was probably too big, flop bet was too big as you have TP meh kicker and betting this large you are effectively playing for stacks on a really drawy board . lots of potential straight and gutshot draws there
    When we're only 20BB's effective, how would smaller bet sizes pre- and post-flop have changed the outcome? The SPR on the flop was under 2. I don't see how we don't go broke. We're probably glad to see a drawy board. That increases the number of worse hands that can consider calling off.

    Preflop: Hero is BB with 4, 6
    UTG raises to t200, 2 folds, SB calls t150, Hero calls t100
    Fold pre

    Preflop: Hero is UTG with 10, J
    Hero raises to t1,508 (All-In), 2 folds, BB calls t1,358
    Not sure what the charts say here, but feels like a fold.
  7. #7
    OngBonga's Avatar
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    You're gonna have to explain this one to me. Max implied odds here are like 15 to 1, and you're draw is only about 11 to 1. Technically profitable if you assume that the villain pays you off every single time. Realistically, this feels pretty break-even-ish. Possibly even leaky.
    Villain's flop bet is pretty weak and I'll be surprised if he has a king. If he does have a king or better, he's likely to bet the turn again. When he checks the turn, which is often imo, he's usually folding to a bet. Sometimes he has middle pair like A9 or 88 and we are drawing on Q/J as well as T.

    Seems like a decent spot to float. I'm not calling flop for implied odds of hitting the straight, I'm calling because villain's range is weaker than ours. I agree it's a tight spot, however his gay bet on the flop for me makes it the right side of tight.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  8. #8
    Full disclosure, the bulk of my poker experience is playing live cash games. I realize online tourneys are a different animal, so I admit my thinking may not be perfect here. But still, I'm not totally clueless either. HEre's my thinking

    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Villain's flop bet is pretty weak and I'll be surprised if he has a king.
    Why? His pre-flop action suggests all kinds of Kx holdings in his range.

    If he does have a king or better, he's likely to bet the turn again.
    Disagree. Maybe I'm just conflating what I would do with what I expect my opponents to do, but I think betting a K on the turn would be horri-bad here. With no draws on board and a flat call from us on the flop, what would KJ/KQ/AK expect to get called by if it were to bet a second time? Top pair is definitely not a 3-streets-of-value hand in this situation. Wouldn't the smart play be to check back the turn hoping to induce a bluff? or if the bluff doesn't come, just bet the river for value?

    When he checks the turn, which is often imo, he's usually folding to a bet.
    I agree about him often checking the turn, however I don't agree it indicates weakness or increased likelihood of folding.

    Sometimes he has middle pair like A9 or 88 and we are drawing on Q/J as well as T
    First of all, do people really raise these hands to 3x from UTG when effective stacks are 50BB?

    Second, you're contradicting yourself severely here. You're saying he's likely to fold to a bet, but then you're also saying we could get paid off by 3rd pair if we catch 2nd pair and decide to turn it into a bluff.

    I'm not calling flop for implied odds of hitting the straight, I'm calling because villain's range is weaker than ours.
    So RRRRRAAAAAIIIIISSSSEE

    If we really have reason to believe that V's c-bet on the flop is weak and indicative of a wide range of non-K holdings, then we should raise the flop. If we're going to bluff like you suggest, then why wait until the river? Just raise another 350 or so now.

    I like this play ALOT better if we had a backdoor flush draw, and/or preferably an overcard. Like if the flop was KT4 instead of K94 and we had AJ or AQ suited. That way we could jam if we pick up equity on the turn.

    This is why I hate hate hate hate unsuited hands. This is an auto-fold for me pre-flop. A suited version flops more equity more often. As played, we just have trash and a prayer.
  9. #9
    Isn't it pretty tight to fold QJo from BB preflop? I know it's not an amazing hand, but it does hit top pair sometimes and we only need to pay 60 to have a shot on the pot of 285.
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Rubiksmomo View Post
    Isn't it pretty tight to fold QJo from BB preflop? I know it's not an amazing hand, but it does hit top pair sometimes and we only need to pay 60 to have a shot on the pot of 285.
    I think the SPR is so low that you won't be able to help but get committed with mediocre 1-pair hands. I don't think it's as easy as you think it is to get paid off by a worse Qx or Jx when we make top pair.

    So for the most part, when the money goes in, you'll likely have the worst of it.
  11. #11
    OngBonga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by banana
    Why? His pre-flop action suggests all kinds of Kx holdings in his range.
    Disclaimer - sample size of exactly one hand.

    Generally, I'm not seeing top pair cbet oop under half pot. This *seems* like a small bet. If it's not (we should be making notes if this is standard cbet for him) then I can keep Kx in his range. However, assuming this is small, then I feel like it's more likely to be a weak cbet with stuff that missed.

    Pre flop his range has millions of Kx. We're no longer pre flop, he has since made a bet. Ranges change.

    Disagree. Maybe I'm just conflating what I would do with what I expect my opponents to do, but I think betting a K on the turn would be horri-bad here.
    Perhaps. But betting under half pot on flop with a king is horri-bad. What calls this bet but folds to a slightly bigger bet? This bet of his gets less value than a larger bet. Ergo, it's not a value bet, or villain is bad at value betting.

    First of all, do people really raise these hands to 3x from UTG when effective stacks are 50BB?
    Yes.

    Second, you're contradicting yourself severely here. You're saying he's likely to fold to a bet, but then you're also saying we could get paid off by 3rd pair if we catch 2nd pair and decide to turn it into a bluff.
    I was just throwing more points that increase our equity, albeit slightly. He probably folds turn because he has junk... perhaps ace high junk that beats us. He also might have second pair hands that might fold (bonus) or might not (oh well, we have plenty of outs).

    So RRRRRAAAAAIIIIISSSSEE
    I have zero raises in my range here. Raising this flop is bad with every hand I can imagine getting here with. QJ/JT are the only viable hands, which means my raising range is entirely semi-bluffs. Not balanced. Not raising.

    If we're going to bluff like you suggest, then why wait until the river?
    I'm not bluffing river. I'm bluffing turn if he checks, because such a line is how I'm playing Kx 44/99. Balanced.

    If I get to river with queen high, I give up because he called the turn and looks a lot more like Kx than I thought after he bet the flop.

    I like this play ALOT better if we had a backdoor flush draw, and/or preferably an overcard. Like if the flop was KT4 instead of K94 and we had AJ or AQ suited. That way we could jam if we pick up equity on the turn.
    Agree with this, however, I'm picking my floating spots based more on villain's range than my own hand. I'd rather have a little more equity, but I'm putting faith in my read that villain's cbet was weak.

    This is why I hate hate hate hate unsuited hands. This is an auto-fold for me pre-flop.
    Yes. As standard, I'd fold this unsuited, call it suited.
    Last edited by OngBonga; 05-01-2017 at 11:29 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  12. #12
    OngBonga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rubiksmomo View Post
    Isn't it pretty tight to fold QJo from BB preflop? I know it's not an amazing hand, but it does hit top pair sometimes and we only need to pay 60 to have a shot on the pot of 285.
    You really need to be giving more respect to UTG raises, unless you're seeing people make loose opens. Make notes when you see people playing badly from UTG so you know not to respect them. QJ is a decent hand, especially on the button, but it's significantly weaker vs an UTG raise than it is vs a CO raise, at least against the vast majority of villains.

    The problem with QJ vs UTG is that UTG is not likely to be raising stuff like QT Q9s JT etc, and more likely to be KQs AQ JJ+ etc. When UTG opens, the probability of being dominated with hands like QJ goes up.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    I'm not bluffing river. I'm bluffing turn if he checks,
    We act first though smokey
  14. #14
    OngBonga's Avatar
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    oh ffs we're bb, I'm getting mixed up with the other QJ hand where we're button.

    Just ignore everything I've said... like usual. Being oop changes things a lot. I'm folding pre, c/f flop.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    You really need to be giving more respect to UTG raises, unless you're seeing people make loose opens. Make notes when you see people playing badly from UTG so you know not to respect them. QJ is a decent hand, especially on the button, but it's significantly weaker vs an UTG raise than it is vs a CO raise, at least against the vast majority of villains.

    The problem with QJ vs UTG is that UTG is not likely to be raising stuff like QT Q9s JT etc, and more likely to be KQs AQ JJ+ etc. When UTG opens, the probability of being dominated with hands like QJ goes up.
    OK, makes sense. Better fold preflop against strong early position raise, especially when out of position. Even with nice pot odds.
    Last edited by Rubiksmomo; 05-02-2017 at 04:46 PM.
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  16. #16
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    Pot odds are important, but you should always be comparing the pot odds to your perceived equity.

    In order to perceive your equity, you have to consider the range of hands your opponent could be playing.
    In general, the range you can play is tighter against tighter ranges and looser when pot odds are high.

    Sounds like you already have a feeling for the pot odds part. It's now time to consider what your opponents' ranges are in order to choose your own ranges. I bet you'll be good at this, too. It just takes time.

    It's all a guessing game, so be prepared to feel overwhelmed for a while when you start trying to put villains on ranges. Just keep at it. Keep guessing. Be prepared to make a ton of incorrect guesses for a while. You gotta make those guesses and act on them. You'll get tons of feedback over all your mistakes pretty constantly. Over time, your guesses will get better and better. It's pretty hard on the ego to do this, but it is necessary if you want to keep improving.

    GL

    Post hands and start discussions on this topic as often as you like.
  17. #17
    OngBonga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rubiksmomo View Post
    OK, makes sense. Better fold preflop against strong early position raise, especially when out of position. Even with nice pot odds.
    Pot odds are not so much of a factor pre flop... implied odds are, and with implied odds comes reverse implied odds. In case those terms are unfamiliar, implied odds are what we expect to win post flop when we make a better hand than villain, and reverse implied odds are what we expect to lose when we have a good hand vs a better hand.

    For example, QJ vs UTG... if flop is Q93r, we have good implied odds if villain's range has a lot of hands like QT TJ 9T A9, because villain has a lot of combos of worse hands, but if villain is playing tight UTG and his range is closer to KQs AQ+ JJ+, our implied odds are less because very little of his range is worse than QJ, and what is losing to us is his AK which doesn't give us any more money after the flop. However, reverse implied odds are now high, because we're paying him two, maybe three streets if we're not good enough to get away from the hand. And if we're not folding QJo to an UTG raise pre flop, I'm unconvinced we're capable of getting away from top pair when it's beat.

    Going post-flop vs UTG isn't necessaily bad, it's just we should assign him a strong range, and be aware of this as the hand progresses. Does he bet AK on flop and turn when it misses? If he doesn't, then take it out of his range on the turn when he bets again, and decide how strong your hand is vs what's left in his range. If we have QJ on Q984 and his range is QQ+ AQ KQs then we're in trouble. If he checked the turn, AK becomes a lot more likely and we can play the river with a lot more confidence.

    This is why range is so important. The better a range you assign to villain, to more accurately you can play against him.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  18. #18
    Thanks for the replies again. I've had a bit of difficulty converting these frequency percentages into actual hands. I added the range descriptions to my HUD which should help a bit. UTG had 8% total PFR which means something like 99+ JTs+ AQo+. That is indeed very strong against my QJo. And their range could be even tighter from UTG. I only had 13 hands on everyone, but the given range might be a fair assumption. I made some equity calculations based on the my guesstimated ranges and figured I might have around 22.3% equity. Meaning my call would have around +3.555 chips EV. But my actual EV is probably lower/negative cause I'm out of position --> fold preflop.
    Last edited by Rubiksmomo; 05-06-2017 at 05:38 AM. Reason: ver --> very
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  19. #19
    Hey. Here's a new hand I played in an identical tournament. Do you think there's a better way I could have played this hand? Maybe call 600 and see a flop? Hard to get away from AKs.

    PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 0.5 Tournament, 15/30 Blinds (9 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from http://www.flopturnriver.com

    SB (t1,169)
    BB (t1,320)
    UTG (t2,968)
    UTG+1 (t1,635)
    MP1 (t889)
    MP2 (t1,475)
    MP3 (t1,435)
    CO (t1,154)
    Hero (Button) (t1,455)

    Hero's M: 32.33

    Preflop: Hero is Button with K, A
    UTG calls t30, 2 folds, MP2 raises to t120, 2 folds, Hero raises to t360, 3 folds, MP2 raises to t600, Hero raises to t1,455 (All-In), MP2 calls t855

    Flop: (t2,985) 5, J, 8 (2 players, 1 all-in)

    Turn: (t2,985) 8 (2 players, 1 all-in)

    River: (t2,985) A (2 players, 1 all-in)

    Total pot: t2,985

    Results below:
    Spoiler:

    Hero had K, A (two pair, Aces and eights).
    MP2 had J, J (full house, Jacks over eights).
    Outcome: MP2 won t2,985
  20. #20
    Either flat the 120, or play it exactly as you did. Flat calling the 600 and possibly folding later seems extra-bad.
  21. #21
    OngBonga's Avatar
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    I'm not flatting AKs, not at this stage of the tourney. I'm certainly 3betting the raise, and once I've done that, there's no way I'm folding or flatting to further pre flop action.

    Personally I'd 3bet to 300, because that's my price with QQ+ where I don't want folds. 360 is probably fine, but be careful not to fall into the trap of 3betting more with AK/JJ than you do with KK/AA, otherwise you leave yourself vulnerable to exploitation.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong

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