Biggest tourney win so far...

50+5, 70k guarantee.

Made it to the final table, someone opened for 5x, I shoved 30x with AQd, he used his whole time bank (he barely covered) and called with AKo.

Came 7th, made 2275.. not that big, but it puts a nice chunk into my BR. There was someone at 8xbb to my left, I was second smallest. Easily could've waited it out til blinds got bigger to make a move. I don't play many MTT's.. not sure if it was the right move, but I didn't think his call was very good. AQs is at the bottom of my shoving range, and not that often either. (especially after he opened for 5x.. when the standard during the time was 2-2.5x)

Any thoughts on the hand from MTT'ers?

I believe you made right move. FT and AK and AQ are pretty much a toss up going head to head.

VNW btw bet it took you 5 hrs to get there.

I think it is definitely a mistake to shove 30x with AQ early in the FT. 30x is a nice stack; you are NOT short stacked! Making the final table gives the wrong impression that you have accomplished something and psychologically you may start playing lose. However the actual game begins at FT.

Nice.
I would just call, sometimes fold depending on the number >7M stacks left at the table and the people left to act, as well as his opening range. You're usually way ahead of his opening range, but a 35/65 dog against the usual calling range.
Folding might be a mistake... idk. I suck @ live short stacked tournament play.

That and people tend to tighten up way too much on the FT. I wouldn't be surprised if you make someone fold queens (or AK ) there.

I tarp myself every time I play live. People react totally weird to 3-bets - but you def. play more live than I do.

How much did you make, and what kind of a monster tournament was that???
1500players or 300 with unlimited rebuys?

It was on stars.. which probably changes a lot in your post =P Maybe I shoulda mentioned that in the original post..

It's pretty hard to make a bad call HU with AK and dead money. Also your play looks 0% like AA or KK and if you take those out it's pretty much impossible unless he just wants to move up.

with no reads, stack sizes or position info it's tough to evaluate your play. Obv with 30BBs you are folding anything that you have beat so he better fold pretty much all his PPs as well.

We have a MTT forum, would you like me to move?

yeah, please. this hand has really been bugging me

Originally Posted by mxiu

especially after he opened for 5x.. when the standard during the time was 2-2.5x

So I am assuming your stack was small enough to make you want to raise with AQs (20bb ish?). People say all the time that top 3 is your goal, always.

Villains range/position would help get this post some more accurate answers.

However, in what I have quoted above I think lies your answer :-S

Congrads on the FT by the way! Thats awsome!!!

I think this is a case where you probably lay it down. Although you're second-smallest, you're way ahead of the shortstack and I'm guessing you're only a steal away from being in range with most of the table.

This is read-dependent, of course...If you know this guy is a donk-maniac OR that he's tight enough to fold a lot of better hands it's a decent move.

Nice job though.

Congrats on the win, that does but a healthy chunck into the br, i also think you did the right move, and hope next time you can make it farther, what was the amount of next payout if you would have waited?

nice rake, congrats.. I would have just called a flop there, but yea he raised 5x like one guy points out that you said... he was most likely holding somethin strong.

Originally Posted by baudib

I think this is a case where you probably lay it down. Although you're second-smallest, you're way ahead of the shortstack and I'm guessing you're only a steal away from being in range with most of the table.

This is read-dependent, of course...If you know this guy is a donk-maniac OR that he's tight enough to fold a lot of better hands it's a decent move.

Nice job though.

He's been running like 28/20'ish ever since it dropped down to 3-4 tables. He's been shoving 10x a lot when folded to him, I've seen him go 2.5x with KK though. I didn't know what to make of the 5x and thought low pp's+ made up most of his range, and could fold to a shove. Even with AK, although my range isn't very threatening to his hand, I thought he could make a fold with it considering he's aware of the shorty to my left as well.

shove seems pretty not good. to a 4-5x raise you can just fold. If your hand was suited you might call, but probably folding seems smart.

this is pretty much the epitome of a spot where reads are 100% necessary.

Originally Posted by Renton

shove seems pretty not good. to a 4-5x raise you can just fold. If your hand was suited you might call, but probably folding seems smart.

yeah, this hand is bugging me for a while and I see that now. fold>call>raise seems like the general consensus.

to be a little results oriented, had i called, the flop was 357 2 diamonds, and he either cbets, i shove, and i pick up a huge pot, or he checks and i take it down anyway.

but i'll know for next time at least, i won't make a mistake like this again since this one will haunt me for a little while

A lot of what I'd do depends on the position of the raiser and what position your in

UTG 5x and your UTG+1 = fold is fine

CO 5x and your BTN = shove is fine

Originally Posted by fjuanl

A lot of what I'd do depends on the position of the raiser and what position your in

UTG 5x and your UTG+1 = fold is fine

CO 5x and your BTN = shove is fine

this times ten. also matters what you've seen villain do before, whether 5x is common for him, whether you think he drools on himself, history, etc. it can make the difference between your shove being awful, marginal, good, etc etc etc.

he was utg+1, i was on button.

ive never seen him do 5x. it was always 2.5x'ish. either that, or he'd just shove. (when he was around 10-12bb's)

Originally Posted by mxiu

he was utg+1, i was on button.

ive never seen him do 5x. it was always 2.5x'ish. either that, or he'd just shove. (when he was around 10-12bb's)

\

meh i would fold here. i mean even if he raises AJ there (which without any sort of history I wouldn't give him a range that weak) this is what it looks like:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 45.601% 38.17% 07.43% 41172216 8020243.50 { AdQd }
Hand 1: 54.399% 46.96% 07.43% 50662449 8020243.50 { 99+, AJs+, AJo+ }

even if you include 88 it only improves slightly for us and imo this is like the super duper best case scenario if he's not a 'tard who raises 5x utg with all kinds of random shit, which is super rare in my experience, esp. at an FT.

edit: even if you remove AA/KK you're still an underdog, and overall i just think pushing here is pretty bad

When someone raises 4x or even more so if they raise 5x, they're almost always a donk with a big hand that they aren't folding. I don't know why people shove light over these raises since it's the most obvious tell ever. Also criticizing this donk's call with AK after you shoved AQ is really bad thinking for multiple reasons.

Originally Posted by mcatdog

When someone raises 4x or even more so if they raise 5x, they're almost always a donk with a big hand that they aren't folding. I don't know why people shove light over these raises since it's the most obvious tell ever. Also criticizing this donk's call with AK after you shoved AQ is really bad thinking for multiple reasons.

this, and

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 49.175% 38.86% 10.32% 359277240 95413566.00 { AKo }
Hand 1: 50.825% 40.51% 10.32% 374539788 95413566.00 { TT+, AQs+, AQo+ }

with the dead money it's a call with AKo

i can't tell you how many times i've seen someone 4-5x from EP and then not fold ever after people make awful reshoves, and have an extremely strong range most of the time, obviously this isn't the rule, but it's damn near close to it in 55s and under

I would have called in that spot, and maybe bluffed him out of the hand post flop since you had the button.There was no need to quickly take risks in order to double up if you had 30 BBs left.

i don't think calling off 1/6 of our stack with the pure intention of bluffing postflop while our hand is at the very least beaten, and often dominated by his range. fold is the play.

and you shouldn't make blanket statements such as "there was no need to quickly take risks in order to double up if you had 30 BBs left."

It's easy to say you can bluff him off his AK when you know what he has.

Remember, he's raising 5x, so think about how strong his range is. Let's say TT+/AK...how do you know when he has AK?

Frankly, the pot is so big there's no guarantee he'll fold if you shove over his cbet.

OP: Stop beating yourself up over this. I guarantee everyone who has played MTTs has gone broke with AQ in key situations before. (If you go back to last year, there are a bunch of threads I posted about it).

The key is putting people on ranges, figuring out how your hand fares against their range, and knowing whether or not you have any fold equity. Almost no one fold AK vs. a single shove and with dead money in the pot, there's very seldom good reason to do so.

ditto, thanks for all the responses. i don't play MTT's that often, so there have been a bunch of things i've picked up as of late.

ie: people think they have fold equity against you when you put 85% of your stack in, and they still shove with 9 high no draw, and manage to hit 2 pair to bust you out x.x

the very next mtt i played, i made sure i shoved instead of making a ridiculous bet in pretty much the exact situation and it netted me this 7th place. =p