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AJo...Good spot to jam?

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  1. #1

    Default AJo...Good spot to jam?

    Had recently been moved table. 400/800/100

    CO is 30/20/17 over 20 hands, this is his 3rd 3bet already. Both previous 3bets coming from CO & BU.

    BB is brand new. Very first hand.

    PokerStars - $10+$1|400/800 Ante 100 NL - Holdem - 8 players
    Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

    Hero (MP): 15,860
    MP+1: 50,596
    CO: 28,056
    BTN: 36,992
    SB: 4,625
    BB: 33,502
    UTG: 3,886
    UTG+1: 22,408

    8 players post ante of 100, SB posts SB 400, BB posts BB 800

    Pre Flop: (pot: 2,000) Hero has J A

    fold, fold, Hero raises to 1,600, fold, CO raises to 3,475, fold, fold, BB calls 2,675, Hero ???

    Good spot to jam over the top here?
    Currently grinding live cash games. Life is good.
  2. #2
    Given stacks are so deep, how about just calling and seeing the flop since you close the action?
  3. #3
    20bb is not deep.

    Shoving seems thin. It's an awkward spot, because we're ahead of their ranges right now, but I can't see us being ahead of CO's calling range. Calling seems thin too, there's not a great deal of implied odds and we miss 2/3 flops. Folding seems weak too vs someone who is 3betting so often.

    idk what to do here. But I'm certainly not calling due to stacks being so deep, because they're not deep. I might call, but the reason for doing so will likely be simply hating folding and shoving more than calling.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  4. #4
    Seems like a really trivial fold. He's 3bet 3 times and you've not once seen his hands or the positions he's done it from (BU vs CO is massively different to BU vs UTG) or thought about the type of players he 3bet in the first place are.

    Shoving just gets called by stuff we are flipping with or significantly behind. I also don't think we have anything to suggest we have loads of fold equity. Calling and playing a weak Ace out of position just seems like a bad idea when the money is going into the pot you will usually be behind and when you are ahead you're not winning all that much.

    You are essentially UTG if you were playing 6 max. This should be like one of the worst hands that we open and we sure as hell don't need to worry about being exploited by folding.
  5. #5
    I'm assuming this guy isn't too bluffy in this spot , especially given SB stack.

    I think we need a bit too much fold equity here to make jamming good.
  6. #6
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    You could flat and pair/fd mine with AJ suited here but I think i would dump offsuit. Shoving seems like the worst play of all.
  7. #7
    Definitely don't shove. You're almost always gonna get called by the 3-better, and you won't be in good shape very often.

    Even though you're relatively short stacked, there is still plenty of time to find a better spot.
  8. #8
    Looks like he´s playing his position (he did it already 3 times before on this positions pre flop) and his stack here, i would go over the top and jam.
  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel72 View Post
    Looks like he´s playing his position (he did it already 3 times before on this positions pre flop) and his stack here, i would go over the top and jam.
    Why? You're saying you think he's playing us, what does shoving achieve? I'll tell you... he calls us when we're behind, and he folds when we're ahead. That's probably why renton thinks shoving is our worst option.

    Let's say we know for sure he has 23s because we have a sick read that he always takes 4.756 seconds to raise 23s. What would be the best play now, with perfect information? Raising is awful, because we know he isn't calling. Folding is also awful because we know we're ahead. Thus, calling is our best play.

    Now instead of him having 23s, he has a range that we're ahead of. The principle remains... best play will be to call. Raising just allows him to play his range perfectly against us.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  10. #10
    It is also a good thing when he folds, because we win 5470 Chips, increasing our stack by 35 % !
  11. #11
    nobody talked about the BB..lol who flats a 3bet OOP with 19 BBs effective?? I think I fold..
    "The harder you work, the luckier you get." ~ courtesy of my fortune cookie from china king

    "One of the best pieces of advice I've ever read in this forum was three words long...

    bet fucking fold." Ong
  12. #12
    I would go for a jam, because cut-off have been active 3-better (especially if those 3-bets haven't met resistance). You get called occasionally, and it's possible that BB is holding aces (otherwise probably just holding mediocre hand which he folds), but against cut-off you about always have outs and often enough your show of strength pays off and you end up to win nice ~11,5k pot without having to flip.

    Even if you get called by let's say AK or KK, you have decent odds (25-30%) to win a big pot. Sometimes you just need to show some resistance to bullies.
  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Farseer View Post
    Sometimes you just need to show some resistance to bullies.
    I think we can find a better spot to do this, like when everyone folds and were HU. BB is not dead money, he had EVERYONE covered. with our stack size if we shove and villain folds his light 3betting hand, you think BB is folding something like 99 or TT??
    "The harder you work, the luckier you get." ~ courtesy of my fortune cookie from china king

    "One of the best pieces of advice I've ever read in this forum was three words long...

    bet fucking fold." Ong
  14. #14
    Flat call, miss flop, hate life
    Congratulations, you've won your dick's weight in sweets! Decode the message in the above post to find out how to claim your tic-tac
  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Cobra_1878 View Post
    Had recently been moved table. 400/800/100

    CO is 30/20/17 over 20 hands, this is his 3rd 3bet already. Both previous 3bets coming from CO & BU.

    BB is brand new. Very first hand.

    PokerStars - $10+$1|400/800 Ante 100 NL - Holdem - 8 players
    Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

    Hero (MP): 15,860
    MP+1: 50,596
    CO: 28,056
    BTN: 36,992
    SB: 4,625
    BB: 33,502
    UTG: 3,886
    UTG+1: 22,408

    8 players post ante of 100, SB posts SB 400, BB posts BB 800

    Pre Flop: (pot: 2,000) Hero has J A

    fold, fold, Hero raises to 1,600, fold, CO raises to 3,475, fold, fold, BB calls 2,675, Hero ???

    Good spot to jam over the top here?
    AJ not in that position with that chips I think it was a good raise of the Hero. After a re-saise and a call of players with more chips if I was the Hero I think I only pay to see the flop. I think it's the best to do with all the game circumstances.

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