Select Page
Poker Forum
Over 1,291,000 Posts!
Poker ForumTournament Poker

$8/180 KJs flops middle pair and nut flush draw

Results 1 to 13 of 13
  1. #1

    Default $8/180 KJs flops middle pair and nut flush draw

    Opp's stats were something like 29/29 which is why I called the raise from the BB. May be a bit loose out of position but whatever.

    On the flop, this is the way to play it, isn't it?

    PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 8 Tournament, 50/100 Blinds (9 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from http://flopturnriver.com

    Hero (BB) (t1,570)
    UTG (t1,261)
    UTG+1 (t1,420)
    MP1 (t2,495)
    MP2 (t1,632)
    MP3 (t1,203)
    CO (t2,355)
    Button (t1,315)
    SB (t2,335)

    Hero's M: 10.47

    Preflop: Hero is BB with K, J
    5 folds, CO raises to t240, 2 folds, Hero calls t140

    Flop: (t530) K, 2, A (2 players)
    Hero checks, CO bets t300, Hero raises to t1,330 (All-In)
    Last edited by taipan168; 05-12-2014 at 07:48 AM.
  2. #2
    Yup, same here. I don't think KJs is loose, and shoving flop is exactly what I do. If he calls an ace, we have lots of cards to hit. And he might fold an ace if he has a weak kicker. Plus we might get calls from worse flush draws. Calling is probably fine too but meh I just gii, we're not well stacked here and a double up would put us in good shape.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  3. #3
    Preflop: how many hands do you have on him, with your stack if there is a good chance he will fold to 3bet then I think 3bet is better then calling, lets assume he raises 29% of the hands, KJs runs a little less then break even against this range, and he has position, however if we assume he will only call with 10% our 3bet then
    roughly 0.66*1860 + 0.34*0.35*3190 = 1607, I think 3bet>call

    on the flop - this really depends on his tendencies, if you think he is likely to bet close to 100% of his range then I would go for C-R, in a vacuum I think I lead here, what was the plan if he checks behind?


  4. #4
    what in the world are we trying to protect against/get value from by shoving flop? if there s even a 15% chance he buff shoves some turns/rivers pretty sure shoving feels good but doesn't accomplish a whole lot
    when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
  5. #5
    not neccerily shoving


  6. #6
    I'm shoving for the following reasons...

    We have 13.3bb remaining.
    We're in reasonable shape vs the top of his range.
    A weak ace might fold. If not we are the dog end of a flip.
    A flush draw will call, requiring runner cards to suck out.
    He's not likely to put any more money in the pot with any pairs we beat.

    Thus, it's a value shove, because we absolutely crush his draws, and we're in good shape against the part of his range that beats us.

    I'm in no doubt shoving flop is +ev. It might not be the most +ev though. I shove because I drool here and think this is as good a chance to double up and get back into this game as we're likely to see for some time.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  7. #7
    pre your choices imo are shove or call, do not like folding.

    I would just flat the flop, I doubt he ever folds something that beats you save KQ exactly which will probably give you a free card OTT anyway. Shoving makes a lot more sense if the flop is AQ2dd. Stacks are shallow enough I doubt he can fold Ax if you get there.
  8. #8
    Your move is good, many players will play the same, but if I was on your place I will probably only made a call, because I think that the villain for sure have Ax (maybe AK), and nothing promise us that it will be dealt another diamond on the turn or on the river. I am telling you this because many times I was in situations like this and I lost.
    I don't think that your move is wrong, but for me it would be better if you only made a call and see the turn.
  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by STILL_mkd View Post
    Your move is good, many players will play the same, but if I was on your place I will probably only made a call, because I think that the villain for sure have Ax (maybe AK), and nothing promise us that it will be dealt another diamond on the turn or on the river. I am telling you this because many times I was in situations like this and I lost.
    I don't think that your move is wrong, but for me it would be better if you only made a call and see the turn.
    and what is your plan in the 70%+ cases you miss the turn?


  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by TLR View Post
    and what is your plan in the 70%+ cases you miss the turn?
    Pretty much why I don't like calling flop. We're drooling on the flop, but we miss the turn more often than we hit, and we're not drooling any more. It's never going to be bad getting it in at flop. There's a ton of dead money and his flush draws really hurt his range's equity. He's 29/29, he has most if not all available flush draws 78s+, and he's gonna feel priced in to call a shove once he bets flop.

    Calling flop is obviously not -ev, but it's awkward for later streets. We could end up folding the best hand if he keeps firing his bluffs, I mean what if he triple barrels QTs? He snaps that to a flop shove, obviously. I only like calling flop if we totally intend to call down for stacks, that way we at least get value from his bluffs. But shoving is nice and easy and surely profitable. I'm reasonably happy it's the most +ev move on flop, but I could be wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  11. #11
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    753
    Location
    B.C. Canada
    I prefer shoving pre in this spot.
  12. #12
    we check the turn and call if he bets, I am not sure why that seems bad to you guys. I am not overly worried some random will 3 barrel Axx board with these stacks and that certainly shouldn't be the deciding factor in what line to take.
  13. #13
    I would flat preflop and flat the flop. Jamming the flop is losing value. When we flat this flop, we're not intending on folding the turn. I don't expect three barrels because we'll have less than a pot sized bet behind so he's likely just going to jam the turn if he bets anyway.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fnord View Post
    Why poker fucks with our heads: it's the master that beats you for bringing in the paper, then gives you a milkbone for peeing on the carpet.

    blog: http://donkeybrainspoker.com/


    Watch me stream $200 hyper HU and $100 Spins on Twitch!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •