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$2.25 SnG JJ & AKs Question

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  1. #1

    Default $2.25 SnG JJ & AKs Question

    Hand #1:
    Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em Tournament, 40/80 Blinds (7 handed) - Full Tilt Converter Tool from http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php

    Button (t2,870)
    Hero (SB) (t1,015)
    BB (t820)
    UTG (t1,415)
    MP1 (t2,565)
    MP2 (t1,485)
    CO (t3,330)

    Hero's M: 8.46

    Preflop: Hero is SB with J, J
    1 fold, MP1 calls t80, 3 folds, Hero raises to t1,015 (All-In), 1 fold, MP1 calls t935

    Flop: (t2,110) J, 7, 9 (2 players, 1 all-in)

    Turn: (t2,110) 8 (2 players, 1 all-in)

    River: (t2,110) 5 (2 players, 1 all-in)

    Total pot: t2,110

    I didn't get a lot of hands to play with the whole game. Saw the jacks and thought it would be a good opportunity to win the blinds and possibly have caller who thinks I am just stealing & call with a semi-decent hand like Ax or KT. Did I try to steal too early? Villain limped PF, so I put him on range I dominated with JJ.

    Hand #2:
    Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em Tournament, 100/200 Blinds (4 handed) - Full Tilt Converter Tool from http://flopturnriver.com

    UTG (t1,640)
    Button (t4,915)
    SB (t4,805)
    Hero (BB) (t2,140)

    Hero's M: 7.13

    Preflop: Hero is BB with A, K
    1 fold, Button raises to t4,915 (All-In), 1 fold, Hero calls t1,940 (All-In)

    Flop: (t4,380) 6, 2, 8 (2 players, 2 all-in)

    Turn: (t4,380) 10 (2 players, 2 all-in)

    River: (t4,380) 10 (2 players, 2 all-in)

    Total pot: t4,380

    Could I have gotten away from the hand? I believe I made the right call.
    Last edited by RebornSky; 12-16-2013 at 07:14 PM.
  2. #2
    2nd hand is easy, snap call.

    First hand shoving is fine but I'd prefer to raise to ~195. When he open limps in MP he's obviously not a good player and he'll peel way too much and play really badly post flop, plus we have position.
  3. #3
    @ Pascal - Thanks for the reply. I guess I didn't make such a bad play on the 2nd hand. Regarding the 1st hand, when you prefer to raise, is that to protect against JJ losing to rags All-In since it is only about ~35% of his stack? Or strictly about beating him post flop and leaving yourself with some chips if the flop comes ugly?
  4. #4
    Hand 1:
    you have 12,5 bb aprox, you are in a push/fold situation, and JJ will be dominating most of the range of hands that MP+1 limps.

    Hand 2: You have to analise how the bigstack has been playing, but I think the call is right. You are only dominated by AA or KK, with the test of the hand, you are dominating, or either going to a flip.
  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Pascal View Post
    2nd hand is easy, snap call.

    First hand shoving is fine but I'd prefer to raise to ~195. When he open limps in MP he's obviously not a good player and he'll peel way too much and play really badly post flop, plus we have position.
    He might not be a good player but do you really want a weak player to see a flop with Q-rag K-rag or A-rag and have an over hit? Or have 2 overs hit? Nah, shoving is better
  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by goomlah View Post
    He might not be a good player but do you really want a weak player to see a flop with Q-rag K-rag or A-rag
    I want this. Because I like money and value.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fnord View Post
    Why poker fucks with our heads: it's the master that beats you for bringing in the paper, then gives you a milkbone for peeing on the carpet.

    blog: http://donkeybrainspoker.com/


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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by RebornSky View Post
    @ Pascal - Thanks for the reply. I guess I didn't make such a bad play on the 2nd hand. Regarding the 1st hand, when you prefer to raise, is that to protect against JJ losing to rags All-In since it is only about ~35% of his stack? Or strictly about beating him post flop and leaving yourself with some chips if the flop comes ugly?
    You raise less than all-in for increased value.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fnord View Post
    Why poker fucks with our heads: it's the master that beats you for bringing in the paper, then gives you a milkbone for peeing on the carpet.

    blog: http://donkeybrainspoker.com/


    Watch me stream $200 hyper HU and $100 Spins on Twitch!
  8. #8
    I think I understand the value add for not shoving.

    Hypothetical question: Say the MP1 calls my 195 raise as others have explained. With that kind of flop (Same cards), would a pot-sized bet suffice? Or would that be the situation to shove after making trips on flop?
  9. #9
    Do you want your opponent to fold? How much of his stack would you like to get in the middle?

    Bet sizings depend on what you are trying to accomplish (and of course stack sizes, which I know you know based on your posts). So you first need to decide what you want from your opponent and then we can talk about the sizing needed to achieve it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fnord View Post
    Why poker fucks with our heads: it's the master that beats you for bringing in the paper, then gives you a milkbone for peeing on the carpet.

    blog: http://donkeybrainspoker.com/


    Watch me stream $200 hyper HU and $100 Spins on Twitch!
  10. #10
    I prob just shove the jacks, we figure he's bad due to his limp, what makes us think he's folding when we shove? He's likely to call off all his pairs, all his Ax, and lots of broadway. A small raise gives him the chance to fold missed flops. I don't expect him to fold much, maybe his 98s and that sort of stuff, which he'll call to a small raise then fold out. But we're short here, we don't want to win a small raised pot on the flop, we want to double up. I'm not suggesting it's optimal, I simply don't know that. But I would conclude at the table that it's easily +ev to shove and close enough to optimal that shoving is never going to be bad and we're never going to be in any awakward post flop spots.

    AKs is ldfo fistpump call.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  11. #11
    dombo's Avatar
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    He might have been in doubt, cause of the bubble in that AK hand and one stack shorter as him.
    But think it is still a call with AKs as well.
  12. #12
    @ donkbee - Ideally, given the situation I was in, I would like to double up my stack.

    @ Dombo - Precisely. Bubble situation got me thinking about folding, but thought AKs is only dominated by 2 hands so I made the call.
  13. #13
    First hand: Agree that a raise of less than all-in would most likely extract better value.

    Second hand: Depends on your read on the button. If he's been shoving wide and using his big stack as he should, call is fine. If he's been unusually tight then you have to think about folding. Of course if UTG was much shorter stacked (say 2-3x BB) then it's one of those situations where you pretty much have to fold it even if Button is shoving ATC.

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