$1 buyin SNG's; worth it?

Hey all,

I am a newly registered member of FTR - been a lurker for a while already, and have enjoyed many great posts.

To my question...

Recently I have been playing SNG's on PartyPoker, the $1 buyin variety. I am not doing all that bad (I am on a losing streak currently, though - yesterday played 6, finished 1st once, 4th twice, 5th twice and 6th once) but I really feel like those $1 SNG's are a total crapshoot...

With a less than $100 bankroll I think I have limited options:

1. reload so I have a minimum of $150 (I started with $25 months ago, not knowing it was not actually enough to get started, really) and play the $3 buyin SNG's.

2. just switch to the $3 SNG's, because they are slightly less of a crapshoot and I might be able to do better there.

3. things are OK, I should keep practicing the $1 SNG's on my limited bankroll.

I am using the SNG Wizard to analyze my games, and to improve. I usually play well until just before the bubble - then I fall in love with hands like KJo, QTo or even Q7s (ouch) and push too easily, even when only just below 10BB stack. That's how I usually go out... But working on that now. I've also been told the same by friends and others I meet in live games - some added discipline and I'd be a winning player...

Basically, while working on this, I want to make sure that I am playing the right level of SNG's. Any insight would be well appreciated.

Thanks!

$3 tournaments won't be any easier. The better the players the harder it gets.
Post some tournaments so that good players here can point out your leaks. That's one of the best ways to improve your game.

The $1 tournaments at Party are turbo only. Which means that on top of the already aggressive blind structure, the blind level rises every 3 mins. No wonder it's a crapshot.

The players at the $3 and $6 buy-ins should not scare you. If you analyze your game afterwards, you're already ahead of the field.

What is the rake on the $1 tourneys? You should be aiming to get to tourneys where the rake is 10% or less as soon as you can as the 20% rake is daylight robbery.

The $1 tourneys are $.80+$.20. To get a 10% rake at Party you'll have to get to the $11 level.

I stopped playing SNGs at Party, because I read in a review somewhere that their micro SNGs were relatively expensive. 80 +20c is a 25% rake which means you have to make a 25% ROI to break even. Thats a pretty uphill struggle. By comparison PokerStars is $1c + 20c and $3 + 40c. If you don't want to play cash games, then I would look around for another site.

I think Everest is the best site I've played micros SGs (in terms of rake and prizes) and the field there is very easy to beat. I also like playing at CD poker, which is 1+20 and is 10 players max (so you win more money when you manage to get ITM). Is so easy to beat the game there tha I played 11 games last week (0,50+0,1) and I made 11 dollars (only 2 OTM). The 1,20 games are slightly different because the bubble lasts much more, but in absolute terms you'll make even more money.

As far as I'm concerned, is better to move to PokerStars when your Bankroll allows you to play in higher games. The SGs there are 9 max and the rake structure is slightly higher than those I mentioned.

yea i would have to say these low limit sng are a hassle, you might just want to sit back untill you get a hand then move in, trust me in these low level buy in's the action is not hard to come across, i dont play for much higher im only at the 6.6 level, so its no better there, but if its all i had was a 1 or so i would rather do a mtt tourney have better luck there

How much under $100 is your roll?

$90 is still 30 buyins for $3 STTs which is perfectly fine from a BRM perspective.

I play the 1.20$ SNG's at Pokerstars. Pokerstars has by far the biggest choice concerning tournies at this level. I like the 27 man type. Easy to land in the money and a high ROI. ( Eventough the rake is high...)

All posts are good suggestions as far as bankroll is concerned. However, it sounds like in your OP that you might be shoving when ICM calls for a fold. You need to get familiar with ICM for better bubble play.

Originally Posted by Qminator

I play the 1.20$ SNG's at Pokerstars. Pokerstars has by far the biggest choice concerning tournies at this level. I like the 27 man type. Easy to land in the money and a high ROI. ( Eventough the rake is high...)

I have been looking at those $1/27 player sngs as well. What kind of ROI can a winning player expect in these games? 30%?

I can't imagine that the $1's would be worth it at all - - - with a RAKE of 25% it'll be tough to stay ahead of it in the longrun.

Some say.. "IF you move up in buyins it'll only get tougher". I disagree with this. In micro limit sng's, the play is so horrendous at the lowest buyin levels that you'll often see 6 to a flop regardless of if there's been a large reraise (many seem like they just 'have to' see a flop).
My suggestion would be to read the 'StickySection' on here. It has ALOT of valuable information. Also - pick up a copy of Moshman's SNG Strategy book. Then try to grind the $3's for a bit (maybe?) or just move up to a min. of $5 (I'd also suggest playing reg. speed at first... although Turbo's could be okay as long as you become very familar with ICM and develop a good shove/fold game). Then either start posting some Hand Histories or read other's who have posted their's (There will be many similiar situations that you will be able to relate to).
I've never played any SNG's on PartyPoker and rarely play 6-plyr. Turbos either...so I really couldn't tell you what I think of those games.... BUT.. if they're anytying like the $1's on Fulltilt &/or Pokerstars I think personally think it's a waste of time to play in them.
GL on the tables!

Originally Posted by Checkmate

I have been looking at those $1/27 player sngs as well. What kind of ROI can a winning player expect in these games? 30%?

That would depend on "how winning" the player is. You can have a ROI of 3% and still rightfully say that you're a winning player.

The 3-table SNG-s usually have a higher ROI than 1-table SNG-s, but since the games take longer to finish, the $-per-hour-rate is probably lower. Remember also that the ITM% will be smaller, which means greater variance, which means that bigger bankroll is needed.

Originally Posted by peach68

Some say.. "IF you move up in buyins it'll only get tougher". I disagree with this. In micro limit sng's, the play is so horrendous...

This doesn't make any sense. The "horrendousness" of a game is inversely proportional to its "toughness", not the other way around.

Originally Posted by Checkmate

Originally Posted by Qminator

I play the 1.20$ SNG's at Pokerstars. Pokerstars has by far the biggest choice concerning tournies at this level. I like the 27 man type. Easy to land in the money and a high ROI. ( Eventough the rake is high...)

I have been looking at those $1/27 player sngs as well. What kind of ROI can a winning player expect in these games? 30%?

A ROI of 30-40 is certainly possible. These levels are full of bad players. Tight ABC poker in the first few levels helps. By the final levels most bad players will be filtered out and things tighten up quite a bit. Use this to your advantage.

I agree, I play in pokerstars low $ sitngo's turbo's, the first 10 minutes are the crazy players playing anything. After that there is some decent play and for the most part the final tables, in the multi tables, are decent play. It' is a grind sometimes to play for this low amount. you can say high ROI but waiting an hour for a 45 man turbo to profit 13 and have to deal with the moronic play at the beginning is not worth it in my opinion

Here is my advice, first look at your finishes mostly 4th through 6th which tells me your playing to tight when your getting close to the bubble or to loosly. so must analyze your game and adjust accordingly. 2nd $1 SNG'S is great to work on your leaks and build a small bankroll, untill you start crushing the $1 DO NOT MOVE UP, there is much swings in poker and as i can see you get frustrated easily. work on your game and you will prosper!

i think pokerstars $2.20 sng are the best with 180 players. does anybody like the 2.20 sng, or what is the best sng for under 10 bucks in your opinon.tx

Thank to everyone for the tips - my apologies for the late answer but I couldn't login from home this weekend for some reason...

I have decided to stop playing the $1 Turbo SNGs at PartyPoker, and try the PokerStars $1.2 ones. Played 3 this weekend, came 3rd in one and 4th in both others.

Also tried the $3 Speed SNGs at PartyPoker (even though my bankroll is very much too low) and was able to get a 7% ROI after 6 games. MUCH better than at the $1 Turbos.

As for frustration (a few posts up) - yes, this is true... The $1 Turbos had me very frustrated... I am hoping to learn how to keep my emotions in check online. Perhaps this is better suited to another post but... Online I play micro stakes. In live games, I play bigger stakes. In live games, I am doing well (no losses in the last 2 months) and manage to keep my emotions in check very well.
Online, however (in micro stakes!), as soon as I am dealt a monster, adrenaline starts rushing and my brain goes into no-more-thinking-mode.
Does this sound familiar to anyone? How did/do you deal with it? It just doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to me, but that's how it is.

One final question: what is a good SNG sample size? I.e. how many should I play before I look at my ROI and decide if I am a winning or a losing player?

Originally Posted by killnine

One final question: what is a good SNG sample size? I.e. how many should I play before I look at my ROI and decide if I am a winning or a losing player?

At least 1000 SNGs at any one level to know whether you are a winning or losing player, and at least 5000 to get a sense of what your long term ROI might be.

Originally Posted by killnine

Also tried the $3 Speed SNGs at PartyPoker (even though my bankroll is very much too low) and was able to get a 7% ROI after 6 games. MUCH better than at the $1 Turbos.

See above - this is a microscopic sample size.

I've been playing $1+.20 to increase my whooping $13 bankroll on Full Tilt (my friend game me the money cause I was bored lol). I started a couple SnGs last night and now I'm sitting at $30. Been playing two at a time, just trying to catch any leaks and look over what I can improve on. I admit I did a couple dumb things that lead me to some early exits but I've placed more than half my entries in the money. I'm gonna wait til $90 before I move up to $3s.