What are proper positional ranges 9-handed?

I feel as though I've been out of practice for too long; I'm thinking my ranges are a bit out of whack, and to be honest I'm not sure what my standard ranges are. I've pretty much been feeling out my tables, checking villain stats, and playing opposite my villains, which means really nitty early, and looser later, but here are my stats by position (note it's a pretty small sample; ~500 hands):

(POS - VP$IP/PFR)

BTN - 36/31
CO - 16/16
HJ - 25/25
UTG+3 - 12/10
UTG+2 - 9/6
UTG+1 - 3/0
UTG - 12/12
BB - 23/3
SB - 24/13

(Notably, my UTG & UTG+1 are effectively UTG, as with table positioning I was more often 8 handed than 9 handed, so it comes to be a combined 5/3, which makes more sense than 3/0 and 12/12)

You don't 3bet enough in the BB.

Meaningless sample is meaningless.

I'm confused about the question , not that I would have the answer to it anyway !!

Sample is meh but w/e. My advice would be to open up a range you feel comfortable playing instead of aiming for a particular block of hands because so and so said it was optimal. Everyone is different and you are the only one playing your hands and consequently trying to follow a formula (hand chart) is only going to make your stats look pretty. But you won't get any better because you're not focusing on the "why".

Originally Posted by TNreg

Sample is meh but w/e. My advice would be to open up a range you feel comfortable playing instead of aiming for a particular block of hands because so and so said it was optimal. Everyone is different and you are the only one playing your hands and consequently trying to follow a formula (hand chart) is only going to make your stats look pretty. But you won't get any better because you're not focusing on the "why".

This is excellent advice.

There's no "correct" range. Poker games are conditional and your own personal style and preferences matter.

Poker ranges are driven by blind/ante structure, number of opponents, quality of opponents, available information (position), etc.

If you're really feeling like your range is out of whack, consider these starting ranges (as in think about the advantages and disadvantages):

Starting ranges for solid a LAG-style when it's folded (or limped) to you in X position:
BTN: 37 - 42%
CO: 25 - 30%
HJ: 10 - 12%
MP2: 7%
MP1: 6%
UTG+1: 5%
UTG: 4%

Of course, include all caveats about not playing a rigid range in any way. You should always be adjusting to table conditions. That said, notice how dramatically different (tighter) ranges get as you are further and further from the button.

This is (was) my starting range for the smallest stakes. This is about as loose as I can play comfortably until I have a couple of orbits in. If you prefer a TAG style, you'll want to dramatically trim the ranges in late position (and some smaller adjustments to MP).

MadMojoMonkey, isn't 4-5% a little nitty for early position? That means you're open folding stuff like 77, KQs, AJs, etc.

Originally Posted by Malbrack

MadMojoMonkey, isn't 4-5% a little nitty for early position? That means you're open folding stuff like 77, KQs, AJs, etc.

4% { 99+,AK,AQs }
5% { 99+,AK,AQ }

Is it nitty? Yes. Is it too nitty? Maybe. It's certainly not too loose, and it's easy as pie to open up once post-flop reads are established.
I think anything over ~6% UTG is playing wild (hopefully mining fishes, and not just spew), and ~7% for UTG+1.

Respecting the importance of not getting hung w/ AJ OOP is a huge step. If you don't believe me, as an experiment, fold AJ from EP 20 times and see how many monies you save.

I definitely think that most problems beginners have is getting involved in EP with hands that play poorly OOP. This will seriously prevent that from happening, and allow them to focus on getting value IP. There are still plenty of spots that will have you guessing OOP.

There are other benefits to having extremely pronounced positional ranges. Those VPIP/PFR stats aren't going to reveal much when your ranges are so different in different positions.

I see your point MMM, and yeah, I'll admit the value of something like AJ depends on what people will call with. But I see a lot of people at the lowest stakes calling a preflop raise with just about any A, so folding AJ (which dominates so many of those hands) is like burning money.

So make the adjustment to add in AJ, AT, but know that it's an adjustment.

If you've got a few half-decent regs at the table, though, this could be a very marginal shift in your range. I think adding 88,77, etc. are stronger additions and more straightforward to play.

Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey

This is excellent advice.

There's no "correct" range. Poker games are conditional and your own personal style and preferences matter.

Poker ranges are driven by blind/ante structure, number of opponents, quality of opponents, available information (position), etc.

If you're really feeling like your range is out of whack, consider these starting ranges (as in think about the advantages and disadvantages):

Starting ranges for solid a LAG-style when it's folded (or limped) to you in X position:
BTN: 37 - 42%
CO: 25 - 30%
HJ: 10 - 12%
MP2: 7%
MP1: 6%
UTG+1: 5%
UTG: 4%

Of course, include all caveats about not playing a rigid range in any way. You should always be adjusting to table conditions. That said, notice how dramatically different (tighter) ranges get as you are further and further from the button.

This is (was) my starting range for the smallest stakes. This is about as loose as I can play comfortably until I have a couple of orbits in. If you prefer a TAG style, you'll want to dramatically trim the ranges in late position (and some smaller adjustments to MP).

This is more or less what I was looking for. I just feel at a loss in EP even with table reads and MP without. I feel like I'm taking a shot in the dark and sometimes fold 99, TT UTG. . . which is probably way too nitty. In MP if my range is going to include some large drawing hands, I'm assuming your 6%, 7% is a PFR when you're folded to. does most of this fall to a limping range if there is a UTG raise on your table, or are we folding out a portion of it and tending to 3-bet? I guess most of that falls to individual reads, but I'm curious at micro stakes, what do you consider in your MP range when a. it is folded to you, and b. the UTG 2bb raises to 3bb with folds between.

I feel that in MP especially I'm always out of my comfort zone with hand selection. Sorry if this question is sort of vague.

I guess my thought is, if it's folded to me, I want to consider strong (pp or AK, AQ etc) hands, and play them aggressively, plus add a bluff/drawing range if the people to follow are nitty or fold often.

If there is early aggression and there are loose players after, it seems limping with suited connectors and 3-betting with my {AA, KK} would be right, but I guess I don't know what I'd do here with say. . . AK, AQ with previous action and no other reads on what seems to be a loose table.

Anyways. . . those are my thoughts and confusions on a couple scenarios. . . maybe I'll post specific hands later, but I hope this somehow clarifies my question. I guess I'm wondering what considerations you make in determining MP and EP ranges, and whether my thoughts specifically on MP make sense, or if I should rethink them.

You're thinking along the right lines and asking good questions. The problem is that there are no easy or concrete answers, only guidelines.

If you start really delving into your questions and playing the "What does it say about our ranges if I do x and Villain does y?" game, then you'll be really progressing as you play.

Of course, understanding your own ranges is the first step. So ask yourself questions like:
Why is is right to fold certain hands in EP and MP, but not in LP?
What kind of hands do I feel really uncomfortable playing and what happens that makes me uncomfortable?
What actions do Villains make that seem to just own me? How can I avoid and/or capitalize on that?
How does a Villain's stack depth affect my ranges?
etc.

Throw in some questions like this, too:
What type of Villains do I make the most money off of and how am I doing it?
What type of Villains do I lose the most money to and how am I doing it?


Start posting hands and be ready to feel pretty foolish for a while. Humility to admit that you don't know as much / aren't as good as you think is the cornerstone to improvement.