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Top 2 pair line check

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  1. #1

    Default Top 2 pair line check

    Hi i thought id try this forum seen as it looks so nice, to get some feed back on some hands from my sessions. I haven't played in a few years so i'm currently starting again and building from 4nl.


    80/0/0 - 2 hands

    BTN: €8.78 (219.5 bb)
    SB: €9.49 (237.3 bb)
    BB: €5.17 (129.3 bb)
    UTG: €4.00 (100 bb)
    Hero (MP): €4.00 (100 bb)
    CO: €3.10 (77.5 bb)

    SB posts €0.02, BB posts €0.04, UTG posts €0.04

    Pre Flop: (pot: €0.10) Hero has Q J
    UTG checks, Hero raises to €0.16, CO calls €0.16, 2 folds, BB calls €0.12, fold

    Flop: (€0.54, 3 players) J 4 Q
    BB bets €0.38, Hero raises to €1.00, fold, BB calls €0.62

    Turn: (€2.54, 2 players) T
    BB bets €2.54, Hero ?
    Last edited by Qigong; 04-22-2018 at 05:07 AM.
  2. #2
    OngBonga's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    I'm raising all in, my hand is forced by this turn bet. No way I'm folding when he's only really beating us with 44. Ok he can have AK, but it seems unlikely given he flatted pre and then donked the flop. And sure he can have K9 or even 89, but if so he won't keep his winnings for long.

    He seems too fishy for me to be letting go of top two here. If we're beat, then be sure to note what he had and how he played it. In fact, do this if we win, too.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  3. #3
    OngBonga's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Let's say he calls the shove and shows 44. We sigh.

    My note would be something like...
    "call 44 bb vs x4 from ep, b/c 4QJdd, pot T turn"

    Later on I can refer to this, and if I see a similar line, I can lend his range heavy weight towards sets. Also, when he pots the flop, I can know he probably didn't flop a set, and so my overpairs look better.

    Notes can be very useful, especially against bad players who play in methodical and predictable ways.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  4. #4
    I think we can call and be good often enough. Villain’s line isn’t one a good player takes, so expect to see enough spaz outs and worse, funky two pair sometimes. He’ll have 44 and straights sometimes though.

    PS: villain can’t be 80/0 after two hands.

    PPS: thanks a lot for posting these hands. A couple of us at least still like to talk about hands when we can.
  5. #5
    oskar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    in ur accounts... confiscating ur funz
    You can essentially beat this stake by never calling. Certainly you can beat it by never calling pot sized bets. This is an incredibly strong line for a 5NL donk. If you think he has AK, sets or 2-pair, then that's 30 combos that beat you and 12 that you beat. Sometimes he will show up with some random pairs, sometimes it's the odd K9, draw or 84o, so you can add some combos of trash in your favor and you have 10% equity against most hands you beat, which means that maybe you break even calling this, but it's not a mistake to fold 2-pair when some unknown 5nl guy calls a flop raise and donks pot on the turn.

    Since you have stats, I assume you have PT or HEM. Filter for call-flop, call-turn, call-river = true and hand strength 2-pair or less. The results will shock you! 5NL players hate him... you get the point
    Last edited by oskar; 04-29-2018 at 12:00 AM.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  6. #6
    Cobra_1878's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    First of all, 4x pre is massive and you probably want to stop doing that without a specific reason for doing so.

    Secondly, I think I agree with Ong ib that I find it hard to find a fold with top two. There are a shit tonne of draws, combo draws and pair+draw hands that I'm more than happy to get it in here.

    Sure we see 44/AK sometimes but meh, I'm not folding here. It would be worth noting the bet sizing as well - ~2/3 pot on flop and then PSB on turn.

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