Select Page
Poker Forum
Over 1,291,000 Posts!
Poker ForumSmall Stakes NL Hold'em

Thin value-shove on turn, raised flop TPTK, 50nl 6-max Bovada

Results 1 to 5 of 5
  1. #1

    Default Thin value-shove on turn, raised flop TPTK, 50nl 6-max Bovada

    I only had 13 hands on this guy, and in a previous hand, it was something like a limped pot, I flopped 2nd pair, I bet, and he raised me and I folded.

    THen a 2nd hand came, I was the PFR'r, I forget what I had, 2nd pair or a weak top pair, I did a standard cbet, again this guy raises me huge on the flop and again, I felt I was forced to fold.

    I was getting a little flustered, and was afraid that he might manipulate me into stacking off a lot lighter than I normally would.

    Villain is MP1 with 98.5BB
    Hero is CO with 100bb

    I've got about 12 hands on this guy so far, this is the 13th hand, he's OL'd half of his hands, folds the other half and consistently raises IIRC, I don't take stats on raises in limped pots, but I know he had raised my cbet at least once earlier.

    Villain:
    12 hands played
    VPIP 50
    PFR 0
    AGG 3.5
    3BET 0.0

    Hero is delt AhKs

    UTG Folds
    Villain (MP1) Open Limps
    Hero PFR's to 4.5bb
    BTN calls
    SB folds
    BB folds
    MP1 calls

    Pot is 15bb on flop

    Flop comes
    Ac 4s 6s

    Villain checks to me
    Hero bets 9.5bb
    Villain then does a snap raise as he had done at least once earlier to 20bb

    Against most people for me this is a fold, even with TPTK, As a "general" rule of thumb, I don't like getting set up for stacks as early as the flop with only TPTK, but this guy had raised my cbet earlier and I only had 12 hands on him at this point.

    This time I went with it, and called

    Pot is 55bb going into turn.

    Turn is 2c

    Villain leads out for 24.5bb

    Pot would now be just shy of 80bb, and I have about a pot sized bet left in my stack

    I felt this was really thin, and honestly was afraid that he used those previous raises in the game, to manipulate me into making a huge mistake and stacking off light.

    Hero overbet shoves his remaining 75.5bb in his stack

    Villain calls

    Pot is 203bb before rake

    Hero shows AKo

    Villain shows up with A9o

    river is 4c

    Hero takes down 198.5bb pot after the rake.

    Do you think this was a really risky move? I mean when I get raised on the flop, I usually get kinda scared, and usually fold. I just felt this guy had been playing back at me so much, maybe this was the time to play for stacks. But I could see a better player like my friend mentioned in other threads, manipulating me into stacking off with TPTK and he's showing up with two pair, a set or a pair+monster draw here at minimum every time.

    My friend as mentioned in other threads, would have thought ahead here, and would know I'd look him up lighter after he raised the flop 2x earlier in the game, and would be picking this time to show up with a nutted hand.

    Even though I won the hand, I'm just not entirely satisfied with my play, the guy was putting me in tough spots, but once I called that flop raise, I knew if he bet again, my whole stack was going in most likely.
    Last edited by JimmyS1985; 07-16-2016 at 01:49 PM.
  2. #2
    You've played 13 hands with him & he's raised your flop bets twice? Now all of a sudden you think he's done that to set you up when he has a hand? Seems a bit paranoid to me. He's also open limping a lot which is a tell tale sign of a bad player at these stakes.

    The only thing I don't see the point of is shoving the turn. Villain seems to be putting money into the pot quite happily and the board is pretty dry. I think I'm happy to call all three streets on this board. Raising just gives him the chance to fold all his bluffs.

    It's worth noting what types of boards villain is raising peoples bets on. Can make a really big difference as to how you react. If he's constantly raising dry boards when bet to he's going to be full of shit more often than not. Also it is only 13 hands so we shouldn't be making ridiculous adjustments but based on his other actions I think we can adjust.

    It's also worth making a note that he plays A9 this way.

    Hopefully someone much better than me will chime in here but I think calling his flop raise and then 2 streets of betting should be fairly standard here? I'm unsure of the level at 50nl on bovada though, especially with people ol UTG.
    Last edited by Savy; 07-16-2016 at 01:49 PM.
  3. #3
    I'd probably time out due to masterbating over AK on an ace high flop against this guy. Ripping turn is fine given stacks imo. He has 2 pair sometimes, but these limp cally spazzy guys like this tend to overplay top pair, slow play sets to the point of stupidity and play draws passively by calling. Im pretty comfortable getting it in here before a card comes that will potentially scare him off.

    You're generally right though that a raise from a loose passive fish means business, but our reads give us confidence that we're good here often enough.
  4. #4
    chardrian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    5,435
    this doesn't seem thin to me at all. I would have played the hand the exact same way and then laughed to whoever was on ventrilo that I actually caught a fish.
    http://chardrian.blogspot.com
    come check out my training videos at pokerpwnage.com
  5. #5
    This is never a fold under the circumstances. He's either running really hot, or overplaying the shit out of top pair hands. I would strongly lean the latter based on his limping. Thus, tptk against this guy is not a hand I'm folding unless it's a really scary board. This is not a scary board.

    I could find myself calling turn and trying to get it in on river, but shoving turn is fine too. I'd give him rope to shove river himself with his bluffs, but already on turn I'm thinking he has an ace or a set, and there's lots more Ax in his range than sets, lots.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •