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In the shit with JJ

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  1. #1
    Vinland's Avatar
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    Default In the shit with JJ

    Villain was not too bad. He had been somewhat active but it was because there were two pretty fishy loosey/passive players to his right which was perfect for him.
    The first raiser was one fish, and villains 3bet I took to possibly be more of an iso attempt than anything, not that he wouldn't have a good hand but I didn't want to peg it at JJ+, AK+ only.
    So I'm sitting oop with JJ, no way I'm folding but not super thrilled either., but didn't think 4betting was a good decision (although maybe I'm wrong being oop perhaps I should have)

    PokerStars Hand #239616757326: Hold'em No Limit ($0.02/$0.05 USD) - 2022/11/02 21:17:56 CT [2022/11/02 22:17:56 ET]
    Table 'Polaris III' 6-max Seat #5 is the button
    Seat 1: Markland999 ($5.53 in chips)
    Seat 2: BeginerInPoker ($5 in chips)
    Seat 3: Soul Bro ($4.12 in chips)
    Seat 4: ALEX666CHE ($5.09 in chips)
    Seat 5: TT.arg ($5 in chips)
    Seat 6: Ganbaru04 ($7.10 in chips)
    Ganbaru04: posts small blind $0.02
    Markland999: posts big blind $0.05
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to Markland999 [Jh Js]
    BeginerInPoker: folds
    Soul Bro: raises $0.05 to $0.10
    ALEX666CHE: raises $0.30 to $0.40
    TT.arg: folds
    Ganbaru04: folds
    Markland999: calls $0.35
    Soul Bro: folds
    *** FLOP *** [Qd 6s Qh]
    Markland999: checks
    ALEX666CHE: bets $0.35
    Markland999: calls $0.35

    AQ, KQ, QQ I'm dead, but certainly a lot of AXs/TTs are cbetting this.

    *** TURN *** [Qd 6s Qh] [Qs]
    Markland999: checks
    ALEX666CHE: bets $0.60
    Markland999: calls $0.60

    Same scenario, if he has AX or even TT I'm still happy to play. He may have a Q but quads are slim (but not impossible)

    *** RIVER *** [Qd 6s Qh Qs] [Kc]
    Markland999: checks
    ALEX666CHE: bets $3.74 and is all-in
    Markland999: folds

    AK just got there. Im not calling. But was everything ok leading up to river?
    I could probably have won it on the turn with a raise, but that seems spewey to raise and have him only fold worse and call with mostly better hands
  2. #2
    This is awkward. JJ can definitely be part of a cold 4bet range from the bb vs a fish open a CO 3bet. But we can also just call this. Depends how often he's 3betting this guy really. If he's often just calling and playing post flop in position, then we can actually consider folding JJ here, but that really does feel too nitty. If he's 3betting a lot then it's between call and 4bet.

    Flop is a clear c/c.

    Turn isn't good. We're dead to Qx KK+ and it's hard to imagine him firing with anything else when we call the flop. I guess he could fire again with AK in the hope we fold a hand exactly like we have, or even 66 which flopped a boat but is now counterfeit. But if he has AK and we call, even if he bricks river he's likely to fire again because we have so many pairs that hate the action. I don't want to fold turn but I can't imagine me c/c'ing any river, and I expect a river bet with high frequency. So I think I just quietly fold the turn.

    River is easy, obviously.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  3. #3
    Interesting line to take here would be to check raise the flop to $1. it screams strength and could be taken as KQ AQ 66 all hitting the flop with a monster. If they call flop . you can check turn and evaluate . if they bet you can fold as they would probably check behind without a Q in case they get check raised again and any hand that bets this turn would likely have you beaten .
    If they check behind turn you could block bet $1 and put them to a decision and fold to a shove
  4. #4
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
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    Any PP should be barreling that turn, IMO.
    Folding the QQ's OTR may be nitty at these stakes.

    Does villain over-value TT in that spot? Some do, in my experience. The specific villain matters as to whether or not this is c/c or c/f, IMO.

    There were tables, that I'd be happy c/c with a bare A in my hand and I'd be good a lot of the time. You just gotta be aware of whether villain is playing scare-bets OTR.

    Granted, it's been a long time since I played, and the player pool is probably a bit more sophisticated than it was back then.
    So grain of salt.

    IMO, it's not just a no-brainer c/f OTR in this hand. In particular, you said the villain is exploiting fish at this table. Well... does he think you're just another fish to be exploited? Or do you and he tend to not butt heads that often 'cause you both realize the difference between a loose fish and a tight reg? This can make all the difference in the world.

    Just 'cause they know how to exploit fish... does that mean they also know how to play solid ABC poker against regs?
    Not necessarily. Not at all necessarily at the lowest stakes.
    Normalize Inter-Community Sense-Making
  5. #5
    This river jam is just Qx or AA. It's probably not even KK, with only one king left in the deck and AA not in hero's range, we're just as likely to have Qx as we are Kx, from villain's pov if he has KK. He can jam AA though because there are now a lot more Kx combos we can have.

    Villain could see a river king and think it improves his hand in a meaningful way, so he could jam that, but I can't see him doing this with worse unless this is an absurd bluff like 72o. And in that case hero probably doesn't have the read that he's "not too bad".
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  6. #6
    I'm going cold 4b or fold when OOP to the 3!er, and JJ is around the bottom of that range HJvCOvBB. (Although this is dependent on players' exact frequencies; this is where specific HUD numbers would REALLY come in handy...)

    Even IP, your flatting range is going to be a VERY tiny sliver, and you're better off not having one at all unless you're super studied on what that sliver looks like.

    Postflop is played well.

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