Select Page
Poker Forum
Over 1,291,000 Posts!
Poker ForumSmall Stakes NL Hold'em

QQ - standard fold?

Results 1 to 25 of 25
  1. #1

    Default QQ - standard fold?

    Hello there!

    utg: 10/5/14 79 hands
    utg+1: 17/13/27 71 hands
    MP: 17/12/0 67 hands

    Like I played the hand it´s no doubt a standard fold (right?). The only hand I would give him to at least chop the pot is QQ.

    The better and afterwards logical play would be to call the 3bet and see a flop (for me...). I mean a limper + raiser and a 3bet from the early positions...

    How would you play it?

    Poker Stars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (8 handed) - Poker Stars Converter Tool from http://www.flopturnriver.com

    saw flop | saw showdown

    Hero (BB) ($11.48)
    UTG ($10.32)
    UTG+1 ($10.95)
    MP1 ($12.88)
    MP2 ($11.64)
    CO ($10.96)
    Button ($3.52)
    SB ($5.54)

    Preflop: Hero is BB with Q, Q
    UTG calls $0.10, UTG+1 bets $0.40, MP1 raises $1.35, 4 folds, Hero raises $2.70, 2 folds, MP1 calls $1.45

    Flop: ($6.15) 5, 2, 4 (2 players)
    Hero bets $2.95, MP1 raises $10.01

    Total pot: $12.05
  2. #2
    yeah i think the 4bet is bad if mp1 is tight and straightforward. what do you think his 3bet range is? his continuing range to 4bet?
  3. #3
    In general I would say his 3 betting range is something like JJ+ and AQ+. (I mean 67 hands are not a great sample with 0% 3betting)
    His continuing range I would see at QQ+, maybe JJ+ because of my small 4bet.

    I have to say: stupidly played from my side!!

    But what would it be if we played it correctly and get a reraise or a shove on this flop?

    On a reraise I would tend to call and re-evaluate on Turn. A shove would makes me want to fold...
  4. #4
    i think MP1 with Set
    with pair he raise in pre-flop
  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    8,697
    Location
    soaking up ethanol, moving on up
    fold pre
  6. #6
    A nit is limping. A nit is iso'ing the limper, and another nit is 3betting the ISO. It's not an ideal spot. I don't know if I can find a fold pre, but I'd probably cold call and proceed cautiously post flop. Also I'd cold call and likely find a fold if UTG+1 came back over top.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay-Z
    I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
    I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks
  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Sergey View Post
    i think MP1 with Set
    with pair he raise in pre-flop
    Highly unlikely MP1 is 3betting and calling 4bet pre with 55/44/22.

    I think I just flat the 3bet pre as well, especially if it's the first time villain has 3bet, and he is 3betting an UTG+1 raise.

    That flop is difficult to get away from with an overpair, until he shoves. I think his range breaks down to QQ+, AKss and maybe AQss, that's about it. So, it's a fold.
    Last edited by Cobra_1878; 05-24-2013 at 06:50 AM.
    Currently grinding live cash games. Life is good.
  8. #8
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    10,322
    Location
    St Louis, MO
    Not to derail, but:
    Hero is in BB, and has (dead) money in the pot on this street, therefore can not cold call, by definition. I think you meant over-call?


    Honestly, I probably play this as Hero did, and call it off expecting to see TT+ and some weird AKs bluffs sometimes. I should check the equity on that, but I'm running out the door.
  9. #9
    As said, a nit is 3betting a nit ISO after a nit limps, so I just can't imagine a range much wider than {JJ+, AK} from the 3bettor which means we cannot 4bet for value, and even calling is borderline since on all low flops, we're not able to value bet vs {JJ+}, so we're bluffcatching in case he bluffs with AK?
  10. #10
    Really I think MP is flatting TT all day and I think quite often with JJ also and we're gonna be OOP the rest of the hand, not to mention UTG+1 might come over the top, so it makes folding even more appealing than first thought, even though this feels so very nitty indeed.
  11. #11
    Looks like a disciplined fold pre at nit ring given the stats and positions of both villains. AK would be a snap fold for sure, qq requires a lot more discipline - just don't tell anybody you folded qq pre.

    As played, call it off given the pot odds. Villain looks an awful lot like JJ/QQ/AKss, although some KK+ is there. As to why villain wouldn't jam over a cold 4bet with kk+ is another matter.
  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by eugmac View Post
    As said, a nit is 3betting a nit ISO after a nit limps, so I just can't imagine a range much wider than {JJ+, AK} from the 3bettor which means we cannot 4bet for value, and even calling is borderline since on all low flops, we're not able to value bet vs {JJ+}, so we're bluffcatching in case he bluffs with AK?
    I never thought about a fold pre, but thinking about it I like it the most.

    Eugmac made a point: What low flops can we value bet?
    It feels more than nitty, but in the long run it feels it´s the most +EV decision (if I can say that in this sitiuation here) because of the stats we have until now.
    Think I should call if his 3 betting range is higher.
  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    1,060
    Location
    St. Shawshanks Infant School
    I think 4b is our worst option. We would never bluff in this spot. I also think flatting sucks quite a bit given positions and villains. Fold looks best
  14. #14
    bad flop but QQ still ahead most of the i check call here if i am worried ,(i put them on AK suited or something close !) what actually happened ?
  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey View Post
    Not to derail, but:
    Hero is in BB, and has (dead) money in the pot on this street, therefore can not cold call, by definition. I think you meant over-call?
    Isn't it a cold call because he hasn't done any VPIP, voluntarily put money in the pot yet.
  16. #16
    I think he's right in that if you've put in a BB, you're not cold calling by the strict definition of the term. But he was also splitting hairs an awful lot so boo on him.
  17. #17
    Ur sqeeze seems to be too cheap, $4 would of been better, or were you anticipating u losing? Out of 3 options: normal sqeeze, fold, push, u chose something that was no option at all.
    If things were to magically revert to January 1st, 2003, only I could take everything I know now in terms of poker ability/knowledge, bonus clearing, etc., I think it's safe to say that it would be trivially easy to make over a million dollars.
  18. #18
    Any reads on villain? It's spots like these that make reads priceless (note to self)

    He must know that UTG is pretty tight, so him 3betting the UTG open needs some consideration. It's HIGHLY unlikely he has anything other than QQ+, AKs here. Given that range, a squeeze achieves nothing. The fact you're out of position also matters.

    Thus, the play here should have been to OVERCALL the 3bet and bet/fold the flop.
    [20:19] <Zill4> god
    [20:19] <Zill4> u guys
    [20:19] <Zill4> so fking hopeless
    [20:19] <Zill4> and dumb
  19. #19
    dev's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    1,624
    Location
    swonging and swonging
    call pre is better than 4bet, but I can't fold there.
    After flop, our bet looks weak. It almost seems like we've induced a shove. Everything we can do sucks at that point.

    A few thoughts on exactly how 'nitty' MP is:
    17/12 isn't that nitty at FR
    we only have 67 hands on the guy so it's not very accurate anyway
    we're at 10nl
    Check out my self-deprecation here!
  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by dev View Post
    call pre is better than 4bet, but I can't fold there.
    After flop, our bet looks weak. It almost seems like we've induced a shove. Everything we can do sucks at that point.

    A few thoughts on exactly how 'nitty' MP is:
    17/12 isn't that nitty at FR
    we only have 67 hands on the guy so it's not very accurate anyway
    we're at 10nl
    UTG is the only nit in the hand.
    [20:19] <Zill4> god
    [20:19] <Zill4> u guys
    [20:19] <Zill4> so fking hopeless
    [20:19] <Zill4> and dumb
  21. #21
    Based on reads I puke fold this pre. Can't see villain flatting the 4b with KK very often, can't see him shoving over flop cbet with QQ- after you 4b pre, so this is AA, AKss and AQss pretty much all day long. I can't be bothered to crunch numbers but I'm guessing this is any easy fold on flop vs this range. But yeah fold pre and don't tell anyone.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  22. #22
    spoonitnow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    14,219
    Location
    North Carolina
    I haven't looked at any replies, but I think this is a pretty simple fold pre-flop. A nit limped UTG, an EP tagg raised and a MP tagg 3-bet. Your hand is smashed here.
  23. #23
    FlowJoe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    162
    Location
    Washington, D.C.
    Maybe it's just me, but I call the 3bet and see a flop. Post flop play didn't bother me, but I fold to shove. If I'm bluffed I'm bluffed!!
    What MUST be, most surely SHALL be!!

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Finn View Post
    In general I would say his 3 betting range is something like JJ+ and AQ+. (I mean 67 hands are not a great sample with 0% 3betting)
    If you were MP1, would you 3b JJ/AQ given positions and the action in front of you?
  25. #25
    Tom1559's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    289
    Location
    Glasgow, Scotland
    Tough one. I am pretty sure in the circumstances that I would either have folded or flat called the 3 bet pre flop. I suspect I am beat at this point but I might have been willing to see the flop with my Q's. I really do not think re-raising here was a good play. I cannot see the villian re-raising the forst raise with a small pair so that rules out him having a set on the flop. I would say he has either got you crushed with AA or KK or else he is bluffing with a smaller pair or an AK, AQ spades flush draw. It is more likely he has got one of the big pairs and I do not see anywhere to go other than to fold to his all in.
    Scottish Cowboy

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •