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Open Raised an called a 3-bet OOP with KJs

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  1. #1

    Default Open Raised an called a 3-bet OOP with KJs

    $0.01/$0.02 No Limit Holdem
    PokerStars
    8 Players
    Hand Conversion Powered by WeakTight Poker Hand History Converter

    Stacks:
    UTG Hero ($1.11) 56bb
    UTG+1 1tillit1 ($2.32) 116bb
    MP1 GVKim1 ($4.15) 208bb
    MP2 Grubb98 ($2.08) 104bb
    CO tomw162 ($0.47) 24bb
    BTN gil 123 ($0.92) 46bb
    SB AMURO EXP ($1.95) 98bb
    BB fordillo ($1.72) 86bb

    Pre-Flop: (0.03, 8 players) Hero is UTG
    Hero raises to $0.08, 1tillit1 raises to $0.22, 6 folds, Hero calls $0.14
    Flop: ($0.47, 2 players)

    Hero checks, 1tillit1 bets $0.30, Hero goes all-in $0.89, 1tillit1 calls $0.59

    Turn: ($2.25, 2), 1 all-in
    River: ($2.25, 2), 1 all-in

    Final Pot: $2.25
  2. #2
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
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    FOLD PRE.
    KJs from UTG 8-handed is just not that strong. You have to act first now and throughout the rest of the hand (assuming the blinds don't see the flop).
    You'll never have TPTK, and rarely have NFD. You'll be calling down AK and KQ on K-high boards a lot and get out-kicked.

    UTG at 8-handed is like a 5% range for me. UTG at 9 handed is 4%.
    I'm folding 88- from UTG most of the time (as a standard when I sit at a new table, based on player-pool reads). Once I have table reads, I can loosen up. I just need to know that villains are paying off flopped sets at a high enough rate for me to play those low pairs OOP.
    Yes, I'm nitty tight, and you certainly don't have to be THAT nitty tight, but if you're going so far as to double those ranges PRE, that's too loose, IMO. You'd need near perfect post-flop play to remain profitable. No one at 2NL has that good of post-flop play. No one.


    Oh wait... you're on a half-stack...
    DEFINITELY FOLD PRE.
    ...
    right?
    ...
    Your SPR is forcing you to get all-in in more situations, so you want to start with a tighter range, so that when you are all-in (which you expect to make that decision in each hand you play), you are more likely to have the best of it.
    right?

    (I don't play short stack poker)
    You can find any pattern you want to any level of precision you want, if you're prepared to ignore enough data.
  3. #3
    So I opened with KJs, I wasnt playing too many hands and wanted to mix it up. Thing is when your mixing it up you need to have the discipline and I didn't here. I figured I would open with it and fold to a re-raise, which I didn't do I called to see a flop OOP against a 3-bet which was poor play. I was tilted from losing my stack a few hands before this and got off after this hand . Anyways this player was pretty tight so I put him on a strong hand. Range would be maybe ATs+, AA-JJ, MAYBEEE QKs but i dont know . Flop comes and I checked it villiain raises me and I decide to jam with the flush draw kind of hoping he folds with AK,AJ,. He calls and I missed. was the shove on the flop a fish move? again now that I look at his range he doesn't have many hands I can beat without the flush, all his AQ's hit the board and AA,KK,QQ arn't folding . so what out of his range is he folding here? AK,AJ, and maybeee JJ? poor play by myself
    Last edited by DonkeyBets; 01-14-2020 at 03:32 PM.
  4. #4
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DonkeyBets
    So I opened with KJs, I wasnt playing too many hands and wanted to mix it up.
    A good reason to "mix it up" is a response to villains' actions.
    I think you were just a bit tilted (easy to assume since you admit as much in a couple sentences).

    If not "mixing it up" means playing the most +EV game you know how to play, then I'm not a fan of any alternatives.

    Quote Originally Posted by DonkeyBets
    Thing is when your mixing it up you need to have the discipline and I didn't here.
    That feels like a contradiction. If you had the discipline, would you be mixing it up?

    Quote Originally Posted by DonkeyBets
    I figured I would open with it and fold to a re-raise, which I didn't do
    But when you do get called and not re-raised, wouldn't you rather have A2s - A5s? Maybe 22 - 55?

    Quote Originally Posted by DonkeyBets
    I called to see a flop OOP against a 3-bet which was poor play. I was tilted from losing my stack a few hands before this and got off after this hand .
    ding ding ding.

    I don't think we really need to belabor the point. Don't beat yourself up too hard, just hard enough to remember that the voice in your head telling you you're not tilted is almost always a liar. You wouldn't be telling yourself that if you weren't, in fact, at least a little bit tilted.

    Identifying your own tilt signature is another thing to hone in on. It can save you hundreds of BB's a week to just know when to quit the game, even if only for a 10 minute "get-the-heart-pumping" break. Not joking. I hate exercise, too. Bottom line is the brain runs on mostly Oxygen, and sitting still is not good for the circulation. Sometimes all you need is a 10 minute break and some good circulation.

    Quote Originally Posted by DonkeyBets
    Anyways this player was pretty tight so I put him on a strong hand. Range would be maybe ATs+, AA-JJ, MAYBEEE QKs but i dont know . Flop comes and I checked it villiain raises me and I decide to jam with the flush draw kind of hoping he folds with AK,AJ,. He calls and I missed. was the shove on the flop a fish move? again now that I look at his range he doesn't have many hands I can beat without the flush, all his AQ's hit the board and AA,KK,QQ arn't folding . so what out of his range is he folding here? AK,AJ, and maybeee JJ? poor play by myself
    Let's save this question for another time. The answer to this hand is Well, I made a mistake." It isn't "Well, I made a mistake, but I could have saved it."
    You can find any pattern you want to any level of precision you want, if you're prepared to ignore enough data.
  5. #5
    Yeah this is a fold pre flop vs the 3bet. If we're full stacked, we might have the implied odds and post flop fold equity to call, but as a short stack we need to be tighter.

    Opening KJs is absolutely fine, even from UTG.

    As for the flop, I don't see what else we can do. Folding would be disgusting, calling just bad.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong

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