middle pocket pairs in the big blind facing a reg steal

so, simple situation. It's folded to a TAG reg in the cutoff or button who raises a standard steal amount. You look down to see 88. Plan?

Assuming this is 6max, for me it depends on the player and current dynamics to determine if I want to 3b or call.

Setmining is out of the question because villain is gonna have too much that doesn't pay a set off.

Folding probably isn't as bad as it first feels. Yeah we have 88. We also hate most flops. I wouldn't be horrified if you said we should fold.

Calling is probably my standard, because I'm not just calling to setmine, I also feel like non-broadway flops are going to be good for me vs his range, and I'm gonna bluff him from time to time too if I'm running bad in terms of hitting flops.

3b is probably overplay.

I don't hate all options but I think I like calling the most.

I'm more likely gonna 3b hands like TJs than I am 88 because TJs plays better oop as aggressor in 3b pots imo.

Hmmm. I think I'm the opposite. Against a reg stealing 45%+ I would more likely 3b 88 than TJs.

I think TJs plays better postflop. 88 the ~16% times we don't hit a set on the flop/turn I think we can cbet and double barrel enough boards/scare cards to take down the pot. Flatting TJs keeps his range really wide and I don't mind calling or C/R a lot of boards.

Originally Posted by daven

so, simple situation. It's folded to a TAG reg in the cutoff or button who raises a standard steal amount. You look down to see 88. Plan?

What ATS range are you implying when you say "TAG reg"?
Is it the same from CO as from BTN?
(I consider myself a TAG reg, and my steal range from the BTN is ~2x as wide as my steal range from CO.)
My reaction would depend on the weight of the T in TAG, among other things.

IF you raise, how often will Villain fold/call/4-bet?
(Important: do you have any recent history with this player that will bring additional info? How did you react the last 5 times he ATS?)


What is this villain's "standard steal amount" / what are your pot odds?

What are Villain's post-flop skills compared to you?

***
If villain likes to ATS "too much" and they're not adjusting by reducing their "standard steal amount", and they'll 4-bet their entire ATS range ('cause they think blind aggression is always preferred), then I'm 3-betting 8's. If they treat all ATS spots as a reason for massive aggro, then stacks are going in.

If Villain is more aware of the different dynamic in ATS situations, and reacts above average in this spot, then I'm far less likely to 3-bet.

If I feel I can outplay Villain post-flop, even OOP with a mid pair, then I'm more likely to flat.

If I feel Villain has the better of me post-flop, then I'm likely to fold and focus on playing him IP.

If we have history, then I'm playing that dynamic more than my cards.

***
EDIT: I'm hungry and generally in a pissy mood, I hope this post doesn't come across as bitchy.

Originally Posted by OngBonga

Setmining is out of the question because villain is gonna have too much that doesn't pay a set off.

Folding probably isn't as bad as it first feels. Yeah we have 88. We also hate most flops. I wouldn't be horrified if you said we should fold.

Folding 88 vs a btn steal would be hilariously bad.

Originally Posted by ImSavy

Folding 88 vs a btn steal would be hilariously bad.

Well it's not something I'm doing so I'm not concerned. I'm simply saying that it wouldn't surprise me if it's close.

Originally Posted by OngBonga

Well it's not something I'm doing so I'm not concerned. I'm simply saying that it wouldn't surprise me if it's close.

It's not close, that's why it'd be hilariously bad.

Ok savy. You're probably right. Why don't you answer the question isntead of mocking those who do.

Originally Posted by ImSavy

It's not close, that's why it'd be hilariously bad.

lol

Most flops where we flop second pair aren't going to be terrible, and we're not always going to face a ton of aggression. Even if we do, having a hand that we c/c, c/f that has showdown value isn't going to be bad for our range.