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Insta-fold?

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  1. #1

    Default Insta-fold?

    Bovada Hand #3016865405 TBL#9382231 HOLDEM No Limit - 2015-03-02 22:27:06
    Seat 1: UTG+2 ($29.66 in chips)
    Seat 2: Dealer ($11.67 in chips)
    Seat 3: Small Blind ($10.49 in chips)
    Seat 4: Big Blind ($19.48 in chips)
    Seat 5: UTG [ME] ($22.77 in chips)
    Seat 6: UTG+1 ($12.59 in chips)
    Dealer : Set dealer/Bring in spot [2]
    Small Blind : Ante/Small Blind $0.10
    Big Blind : Big blind/Bring in $0.25
    *** HOLE CARDS ***

    UTG [ME] : Card dealt to a spot [A T]

    UTG [ME] : Raises $0.75 to $0.75
    UTG+1 : Folds
    UTG+2 : Folds
    Dealer : Folds
    Small Blind : Folds
    Big Blind : Calls $0.50
    *** FLOP *** [6 7 4]
    Big Blind : Bets $0.50
    UTG [ME] : Calls $0.50
    *** TURN *** [6 7 4] [A]
    Big Blind : Bets $2
    UTG [ME] : Calls $2
    *** RIVER *** [6 7 4 A] [K]
    Big Blind : Bets $4

    Note: I've since moved down to 10nl. I used to play 50nl in '07, but I've been away from the game for so long, and I was never great at the math in the first place so I've forgotten most of it. I'm rolled for 25nl, but I'm back on training wheels here.
  2. #2
    I think the Turn was Raise or Fold.

    [R] He probably does have the goods at this point so without further information on the villain or metagame I think you should indeed fold. It could be a busted flush but I wouldn't pay $4 to find out: remember you're supposed to get bluffed off the pot sometimes.
  3. #3
    I never turned a profit in cash games back when I played MTTs seriously, so there are going to be much more qualified opinions on how to play this hand than mine.

    That said, I agree with Timlagor in Folding the River. As far as the Turn goes, perhaps a Raise to get more info would have worked. Folding on the Turn I wouldn't agree with b/c my line of thinking is that a player shouldn't call on the Flop just to Fold to a single bet on the Turn once his hand significantly improves. If that's the case, then I would probably find a Fold the the Flop.
  4. #4
    I should have said this in the OP, but I had villain's range including Ax, K9+, QJ, QQ-88. I see a raise on the turn in this situation. Is a call there ever good?

    Also, if I float this flop I'm expecting to win when I hit an A on the turn. When the K came on the river I was thinking he would check and I would value bet this. Had he checked, would I have been right with a value bet there?
  5. #5
    You could plausibly float the Flop and hope he'll check the Turn but I agree that if you're going to fold with the Ace you probably ought to fold the flop and save that money: you get plenty of float-folds from missing.

    [F] Had you seen villain 'donk' the flop before? I'd be inclined to fold to the first [F] Donk and reevaluate if he repeated (depending how soon).
    In this case the flop hits his likely range much harder than yours and he bet out so it's probably not a great time to be calling at all (6 outs if you're lucky unless he's bluffing completely) ...best possible Turn card leaving you uncertain is a pretty strong indicator that you might be doing something wrong.
    ..so let's make that comment I started with a bit more succinct: You should have folded the flop.* (which is why i was still left feeling the [T] was foldable)

    * This is of course subject to not having a good read that he's likely to be bluffing or drawing (or is very bluffable: high expectation he would X/F the [T] could merit a float).


    [T] You would call here if you considered the villain to be an inveterate bluffer liable to fold to the first sign of strength: in that case you expect to be good and raising just throws away his [R] bluff.
    You might also call if you are confident his [P] range just doesn't include anything (or at least not nearly enough) that hits that flop. In this case you are again very confident of your hand strength and might expect a raise to only get called by better-kicker-Aces ..though (shutting out) the flush draw (or making it pay) still makes the raise attractive.

    [R] There's something to be said to call for information on this River. You haven't shown any strength so [R] isn't a terrible call imo**and if you expect to be seeing a lot of this opponent it could be useful to know what he took this line with. In general I don't think it's worth paying for information unless you really think the decision is marginal anyway: better to pick up the info on someone else's tab or when you are confident of your strength.
    Part of my reason for calling is that I don't see a lot of [R] bluffs; it's possible that Bovada 25 has more but my guess is not enough to make this a call.

    If he had checked here then you could sensibly value bet it (given no club) as he's not likely to be trying for X/R into someone totally passive since the flop and he's got a whole lot of range you beat.


    ** you did nothing to discourage his weak holdings and he might well have you on a draw


    Summary: [F] Fold [T] Raise [R] Fold ...but the one you asked about is the only one I think is close.


    My assumption was a reasonable chance that his range contained small sets, with two pair (67) possible but straight very unlikely and straight draw not implausible. 8c9c could be in there. Are you saying you excluded all these? how confident are you if so?
    EDIT for clarity: I was saying I think there's a decent chance he had those in his [P] range and might then play them like this not that I'd expect them to be in all villain's ranges and a good chance you're facing them on the flop. The 'donk' is unusual but that may mean an unusual player for whom it is common.
    Last edited by Timlagor; 03-09-2015 at 10:59 PM.
  6. #6
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
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    You have ATo, and you're UTG at a 9-handed game.

    This is a snap fold PRE, no decision.

    Nothing afterward is too relevant. ATo is outside an opening range for UTG. WAY outside. You should be lol folding AJo from UTG and unless you have a good read on the table (that's everyone at the table), then snap folding AQo from UTG is a fine move. There's very little value to be had from these hands OOP.
    Last edited by MadMojoMonkey; 03-10-2015 at 11:24 AM.
  7. #7
    It's 6 handed...
  8. #8
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timlagor View Post
    It's 6 handed...
    Sorry, I misread the hand transcription
    seat 1, seat 2, ... , seat 6, dealer, SB,BB.

    I thought dealer, SB, BB were other seats.

    My bad.

    Carry on.
  9. #9
    Why are we calling the flop? What is he betting with on the flop that makes this play worthwhile?
    Seems like a line an unknown might take with a flush draw, straight draw, A7, sets, and over pairs. Against this range it seems like we are pretty far behind.

    If you think he only makes this play with a Flush draw and the plan is to bluff all non club turns then I guess it'd make more sense. However, just calling without a plan seems pretty bad vs either range.
    [00:29] <daven> dc, why not check turn behind
    [00:30] <DC> daven
    [00:30] <DC> on my hand?
    [00:30] <daven> yep
    [00:30] <DC> because I am drunk
    [00:30] <daven> nice reason
    [00:30] <daven> no further questions
    [00:30] <yaawn> ^^Lol

    Problem officer...?
  10. #10
    I'd fold flop as well. Also, I'd move table due to the three short stackers. You should keep your stack at 100bb as well. Is there no auto top-up feature on Bovada?
    Erín Go Bragh
  11. #11
    spoonitnow's Avatar
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    {{Moved to SSNL}}

    We normally put hand histories in the Small Stakes No-Limit Hold'em forum and general questions in the Beginners Circle.

    Welcome to FTR.
  12. #12
    Fold pre. Fold flop. But as played, I'm definitely close to calling here. I expect to get to the river with a good portion of overpairs like 88-QQ that peel the turn as well. Some Worse Axcc, some Kxcc. ATo is pretty strong in my range that gets to the river I would imagine.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay-Z
    I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
    I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks

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