Hi, I'm new. Sort of...

I used to play poker and post on here up until they made it illegal in the US in 2006. I live in NJ and it's legal there now so I just started again the other night. When I originally started, I built my bankroll by bonus whoring. I planned to do that again but it seems the bonuses are painfully slow to clear but they aren't all or nothing so that's good too.

Anyway, I'm happy to be back. I'm playing shorthanded .25/.50 NL two tabling (since it's hard to find full tables available and I don't mind anyway). When I quit in 2006 I was playing 1/2 NL 4 tabling. So, I'm going to work my way back up hopefully. I have to fine tune my game on the way - I'm leaking too much already but my BB/100 is still 39 (only 700 hands in).

I've been away so long, but I assume people still use poker tracker? I got the trial version and it's decent so I might purchase.

I'm also wondering if anybody has tips on easy to clear bonuses so I can build my bankroll instead of putting more of my hard earn cash in.

See you guys on the tables

Originally Posted by r8ed

I used to play poker and post on here up until they made it illegal in the US in 2006.

Poker, online or otherwise, has never been illegal in the USA. Not by any national law.

The first thing I'd say is, 700 hands is way too small a sample to know whether you have leaks or not, but 39bb/100 is certainly not your real winrate - if you're really winning 20% of that, you're doing very well.

I'd also be wary of playing 50NL right away - the poker landscape now vs. 2006 is irrecognisable, and even though you used to play 200NL you're probably going to find that todays 50NL players are considerably better than you're used to, not to mention you haven't played in 7 years.

Good luck with the grind - post some hands.

Originally Posted by BorisTheSpider

I'd also be wary of playing 50NL right away - the poker landscape now vs. 2006 is irrecognisable, and even though you used to play 200NL you're probably going to find that todays 50NL players are considerably better than you're used to

This. It's not the same game anymore.

Just wanted to say Good luck Saucy, glad to have you back.

Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey

Poker, online or otherwise, has never been illegal in the USA. Not by any national law.

This. I wish people would do some research before jumping to faulty conclusions. Poker is every bit as legal in every state today as it was on Black Friday. It's never been illegal.

There are a multitude of different sites that US players can play on today with decent traffic. They're almost entirely located in countries and regions that are beyond the grasp of our lovely FedGov here in the States and as a result are quite safe to build a bankroll on.

Originally Posted by Nostalgia

This. I wish people would do some research before jumping to faulty conclusions. Poker is every bit as legal in every state today as it was on Black Friday. It's never been illegal.

There are a multitude of different sites that US players can play on today with decent traffic. They're almost entirely located in countries and regions that are beyond the grasp of our lovely FedGov here in the States and as a result are quite safe to build a bankroll on.

I guess I'm just some crazy person that jumped to conclusions and I'm the only one who stopped playing at that time? I was just going to ignore the first post, but I guess people are ready to jump on this so I will address it. My 20k bankroll that I built from $100 was frozen for several months and I never knew if I would get it back. Luckily months after black friday, the US Government made neteller pay it's US customers their balance. So, I think there was plenty for me to worry about at that time and putting money into some other sites where I would have to go to great lengths to get it there and then HOPE I would get it back was a risk for me. I hope you guys can somehow understand why that would make me and 100,000s or other US players hesitant.

Originally Posted by r8ed

I guess I'm just some crazy person that jumped to conclusions and I'm the only one who stopped playing at that time? I was just going to ignore the first post, but I guess people are ready to jump on this so I will address it. My 20k bankroll that I built from $100 was frozen for several months and I never knew if I would get it back. Luckily months after black friday, the US Government made neteller pay it's US customers their balance. So, I think there was plenty for me to worry about at that time and putting money into some other sites where I would have to go to great lengths to get it there and then HOPE I would get it back was a risk for me. I hope you guys can somehow understand why that would make me and 100,000s or other US players hesitant.

No one is arguing that Black Friday didn't happen.

You said:

Originally Posted by r8ed

I used to play poker and post on here up until they made it illegal in the US in 2006.

So, tell us. Who are "they" and what did they make illegal in the US in 2006?

Lol the once welcoming beginner circle has been taken over by trolls. Guys, if he posted with a subject "My definitive guide on the legal history of internet gambling in the US" you can replace tampons over this and correct him in a bizarrely passive aggressive way. But, this is called the beginners circle and he's basically saying "hi."

Hi r8ed! High five!

Originally Posted by r8ed

I guess I'm just some crazy person that jumped to conclusions and I'm the only one who stopped playing at that time? I was just going to ignore the first post, but I guess people are ready to jump on this so I will address it. My 20k bankroll that I built from $100 was frozen for several months and I never knew if I would get it back. Luckily months after black friday, the US Government made neteller pay it's US customers their balance. So, I think there was plenty for me to worry about at that time and putting money into some other sites where I would have to go to great lengths to get it there and then HOPE I would get it back was a risk for me. I hope you guys can somehow understand why that would make me and 100,000s or other US players hesitant.

If you would do a little research you would realize that the US facing sites we're currently playing on are outside of the Federal Government's jurisdiction. It's not like Stars or Fulltilt were. Our money is perfectly safe on these sites these days.

As for you being a crazy person? I don't know about that but I do know that online poker is alive and well in the US. Networks like WPN and Bovada are seeing more traffic than ever these days as there are all sorts of holiday specials running.

Smarten up.

Originally Posted by Nostalgia

If you would do a little research you would realize that the US facing sites we're currently playing on are outside of the Federal Government's jurisdiction. It's not like Stars or Fulltilt were. Our money is perfectly safe on these sites these days.

As for you being a crazy person? I don't know about that but I do know that online poker is alive and well in the US. Networks like WPN and Bovada are seeing more traffic than ever these days as there are all sorts of holiday specials running.

Smarten up.

OMG. You are gonna keep this up? Go back and look at the traffic this site was getting when I left and what it is now. Were you playing online poker back then? No. You joined the site months ago so you don't know jack shit about what was going on. Don't be such a fucking tool if that's possible for you. I tried to approach this tactfully but you are an idiot.

Anybody who was on the site in 2006 that cares to lecture me about why I should have kept playing is welcome to lecture me (and the other 90% of people who left) on why I should have kept my money in. Otherwise STFU.

Originally Posted by r8ed

OMG. You are gonna keep this up? Go back and look at the traffic this site was getting when I left and what it is now. Were you playing online poker back then? No. You joined the site months ago so you don't know jack shit about what was going on. Don't be such a fucking tool if that's possible for you. I tried to approach this tactfully but you are an idiot.

Anybody who was on the site in 2006 that cares to lecture me about why I should have kept playing is welcome to lecture me (and the other 90% of people who left) on why I should have kept my money in. Otherwise STFU.

Someone's got their panties in a bunch.

The fact that the traffic is less now than it was prior to Black Friday doesn't mean everything just sucks and our money isn't safe on any of the sites we're playing at. The Federal Government has no jurisdiction over them and therefore they cannot just seize our funds.

You're comparing apples (Stars and Tilt back then) to oranges (WPN, Bovada, Merge, Revolution today). I was alive and well when the whole Black Friday thing went down and I'm quite aware of everything that happened. Once again - Just because things are different today doesn't mean the online poker world is nonexistent to US players...which is what you've come in this thread and asserted. Learn to read.

The fact that you couldn't even control your emotions when writing that post indicates that you really shouldn't be playing poker in the first place. It might get a little expensive for a whiny, ignorant little baby such as yourself.

Oh and: Post reported. Learn to control yourself you little brat.

lol nostalgia, you were being a dick with your "smarten up", when post-blackfriday skepticism about US pokerfund security was perfectly warranted, then you act surprised when he gets his panties in a wad.

Then you actually report him in his own welcome back thread!

yer funny

Every one slow down. argueing semantics.

Poker was taken away as far as any real US player was concerned. Playing for nickels on some shit hole site now like you US players do is not the online poker we all know and love.

Welcome back R8ed. Please stay here. The BC is not full of trolls.

Originally Posted by jyms

Playing for nickels on some shit hole site now like you US players do is not the online poker we all know and love.

Welcome back R8ed. Please stay here. The BC is not full of trolls.

1) What about the US players who play for dollars and not just nickels? You aren't seriously saying that only microstakes poker is played on these sites, are you? What makes playing 200nl on WPN different than playing 200nl on Pokerstars? Anything? You're projecting sheer nonsense and ignorance. If US players would just stop whining and being point blank uninformed like the OP everything would be just fine again. There's nothing stopping 1 million + US players from signing up and playing high stakes poker on WPN or Revolution right now except ridiculous spam like your post.

2) He comes on the forum and curses and screams like a baby and you welcome him back and beg him to stay? Good to know that this is the kind of behavior that's tolerated here. This combined with the advertisement trolls that you take four days to notice make this forum look really good in comparison to the other major poker sites around the web. I guess I can just start calling people whatever name I feel like when I get upset too.

Originally Posted by d0zer

Then you actually report him in his own welcome back thread!

He spouted off ignorance and cursed up a storm in his "welcome back thread". The fact that you tolerate posts like his makes this forum look like a joke compared to the other major poker sites around the web. No way around that fact.

It would be nice if you actually enforced some kind of etiquette and code of conduct around here. It might even make the forum look legitimate.

Originally Posted by Nostalgia

1) What about the US players who play for dollars and not just nickels? You aren't seriously saying that only microstakes poker is played on these sites, are you? What makes playing 200nl on WPN different than playing 200nl on Pokerstars? Anything? You're projecting sheer nonsense and ignorance. If US players would just stop whining and being point blank uninformed like the OP everything would be just fine again. There's nothing stopping 1 million + US players from signing up and playing high stakes poker on WPN or Revolution right now except ridiculous spam like your post.

2) He comes on the forum and curses and screams like a baby and you welcome him back and beg him to stay? Good to know that this is the kind of behavior that's tolerated here. This combined with the advertisement trolls that you take four days to notice make this forum look really good in comparison to the other major poker sites around the web. I guess I can just start calling people whatever name I feel like when I get upset too.

the fact that there are many players that are members here on FTR and on other forums with tens of thousands of their bankrolls still unpayed. The fact that the US govt already tried to shut down the big sites. As soon as the sites like WPN become anything more than an inconveineince the US govt will shut those down too and anyone playing with a bankroll in the Thousands of dollars to play 200NL will again lose that money and maybe this time for good.

Originally Posted by jyms

the fact that there are many players that are members here on FTR and on other forums with tens of thousands of their bankrolls still unpayed. The fact that the US govt already tried to shut down the big sites. As soon as the sites like WPN become anything more than an inconveineince the US govt will shut those down too and anyone playing with a bankroll in the Thousands of dollars to play 200NL will again lose that money and maybe this time for good.

Why do you think the US government has jurisdiction over sites based in Europe or South America?

This is just paranoia you're suffering. The FedGov has absolutely nothing to do with any of these sites like WPN.

I mean I can understand being hesitant to rejoin a market in which you got screwed for thousands already but that really was a sort of one hit wonder by my lovely government. They have absolutely no power whatsoever to go and "shut down" WPN or Revolution. I wish some of you would confirm your paranoia before making asinine statements like this and just scaring away new US players so that we can never get the kind of traffic you see over on Stars. It's beyond ignorant and irritating.

Since you failed to answer it in any way, shape, or form: Why did you assert that US players can only play for "pennies" on sites like WPN and Revolution? This is totally false. Why would you make such a statement? The fact that a few morons fear monsters under there bed every time they deposit on a poker site these days really has nothing to do with the reality of the matter. Online poker is alive and well in the US and at all stakes. If someone chooses not to play because of what happened to Stars or FullTilt now over half a decade ago I would once again refer them to the beginning of my post. The US government has absolutely no jurisdiction over the popular US facing sites of today like they did over Stars and Tilt.

Originally Posted by Nostalgia

He spouted off ignorance and cursed up a storm in his "welcome back thread". The fact that you tolerate posts like his makes this forum look like a joke compared to the other major poker sites around the web. No way around that fact.

It would be nice if you actually enforced some kind of etiquette and code of conduct around here. It might even make the forum look legitimate.

If would be great to hear your list of enforceable etiquette violations, I'd like that a lot. I have a general sense for what my own personal "etiquette violations" are and imma say you're beating out r8ed for total violations by about 60/40 but I'm still not at enforcement as there are too many libertarians around.

If I was a US citizen I wouldn't be willing to put any significant money into a poker site. Do you actually think Pokerstars and Full Tilt were american poker sites when the DOJ shut them down? Do you really think that they are american poker sites now? How come the US govt can stop the US players from playing on them now?

Do you have any idea the trouble people are going through to play poker as US citizens. FTR has had it's members moving countries just to continue to earn their living. Do you know what kind of effort and stress you need to go through to deposit and withdraw money?

Originally Posted by d0zer

If would be great to hear your list of enforceable etiquette violations, I'd like that a lot. I have a general sense for what my own personal "etiquette violations" are and imma say you're beating out r8ed for total violations by about 60/40 but I'm still not at enforcement as there are too many libertarians around.

Obviously this wasn't a serious post. He called me a "fucking tool". That doesn't violate any of these forums policies?

Originally Posted by jyms

If I was a US citizen I wouldn't be willing to put any significant money into a poker site. Do you actually think Pokerstars and Full Tilt were american poker sites when the DOJ shut them down? Do you really think that they are american poker sites now? How come the US govt can stop the US players from playing on them now?

Do you have any idea the trouble people are going through to play poker as US citizens. FTR has had it's members moving countries just to continue to earn their living. Do you know what kind of effort and stress you need to go through to deposit and withdraw money?

You're not addressing any of my points. Not a one of them. It seems like you don't want people in the US to play poker online or else you would actually comment on the numerous points I've just made.

I have no idea what you're talking about you paranoid little Canadian. I can deposit and withdraw from WPN, Bovada, Merge, and Revolution just as easily as you can from Stars. It takes minutes. Once again, I have absolutely no idea why you're trying to convince people of otherwise but since you've repeatedly insisted it in this thread it seems as though you have an agenda of some kind.

Once again - What makes you think the US government can go into Argentina and seize funds from a private corporation there? They can't, at all, but I'm wondering what makes you think so other than sheer stupidity, ignorance, and paranoia.

Do you want me to post links to thousands of posts on 2+2 where US players report successfully depositing and withdrawing large amounts of money onto and from these sites with ease? Would you still sit there stubbornly banging that big brick that's three feet above your ass against the wall if I did so?

No wonder there's less traffic on this site than any of the other poker forums. I mean, there's lots of things I like here but obviously not everyone appreciates you allowing swearing and insulting comments by new members directed at existing members along with pure propaganda being spouted by the moderators.

I'd just like to ring back in and say welcome back to the forum. I didn't know you before, so whatev's.

I don't intend to get involved in all this vitriol, but I wanted to say that my point is valid. I'm sorry about the freezing of your account(s) on black Friday, but it wasn't about the legality of poker. It was about corruption in an international business that was funneling money out of the US by making fraudulent claims about the security of the money they were conning out of us.

There are still existing issues with gambling across state lines, due to a lack of federal rulings, not the opposite. In the US, it's mostly about who and how the taxes are gathered from the transaction, and what level of regulation is necessary.

Outside the US, the reason major poker sites are hesitant to allow US players is the rapid action that the US DOJ took, and that there was no "due process". They want assurances that their funds wont be frozen in a similar manor if the US gov't decides to invoke international pressures.

Until and unless the USA makes legislation that clears the gray area on the issue, major international poker companies are not going to open their services to the US citizens.


My point is that poker (online or otherwise) is not illegal in the US on a national level. Many states have regulated if and where their citizens can gamble. AFAIK, no states have made laws restricting poker since black Friday, and a few have made laws to expand the legality of poker.

So.

I hope you get back into the game if you find joy in it. You are unhindered by your federal government in this regard, and furthermore empowered and compelled to lobby your congressmen to write aforementioned legislation which clearly legalizes online poker in the USA.

This was a funny thread.

The only thing I want to add to this at this time is that the OP, and players in the same boat as the OP, really should give networks like WPN, Revolution, Bovada, and Merge a shot at this point. WPN's software is clearly the best available right now and with the bonus specials running this month as well as the new Sit and Crush promotion - it's really not a bad place to play poker. PT4 and HM2 work great and the software on WPN has gotten pretty good. Obviously PokerStars is the best in the biz when it comes to software but I honestly have to say that WPN's software is not too far behind at this point. I think a lot of people are basing their impressions of these sites on how things were 6-12 months ago. There have been a lot of improvements and changes since then and you would have to see for yourself to truly grasp how much progress has been made.

Give it a shot. Throw $50-$100 onto one of the sites and start playing the microstakes while using a free trial of PT4 or HM2. I guarantee you'll be pleasantly surprised with what you see.

Nostalgia .....have you tried withdrawing from revolution? trying to make out that withdrawing from the US facing sites is as easy as withdrawing from stars is a fallacy.

I have withdrawn from Revolution and Winning Poker Network several times without an issue. It was placed on my debit card within 24 hours. I know several people who have had the same positive experience with these two sites and as far as I know Bovada is extremely reliable as well. There's absolutely no "fallacy" regarding what I've just stated.

Have you tried to withdraw from any of these sites?

Just go on 2p2 and read the withdrawal/deposit threads. There's a mountain of evidence in there to support what I'm saying. Kind of surprised this community is so far out of the loop.

really. juicy stakes cashout thread is indicating about a week for cashouts and $100 fee which is quite a hefty cost for cashing out. Skrill cashouts also taking a week......FYI stars cashouts to skrill are virtually instanteous with no fee.

merge cashouts seem to be taking 3 weeks.

kinda surprised that you are misrepresenting the position and are so far out of the loop. I'm not US based but that means that whilst keeping abreast of the US situation i also know how it works in the rest of the world, unlike you.

I don't see Bovada or WPN mentioned. Why is that?

I have no idea why you Euros are totally misrepresenting the state of affairs here in the US but you absolutely are. Of course you'll read a horror story here and there about someone waiting a few weeks for a cashout but all in all it's really not too bad. I have never waited more than 24 hours and I know a lot of people who have had the same experience.

Why you felt the need to tell me how instantaneous things are on PokerStars is beyond me. I thought that was common knowledge. Nobody is debating that us here in the US would rather be on Stars but since that's a total non option right now we're more than making due with what we have.

Have you ever even played on WPN's software?

Holy shit! Someone on the internet is wrong!!!

Originally Posted by Nostalgia

I don't see Bovada or WPN mentioned. Why is that?

could be that Bovada is for USA only so how would a euro have any experience? Also since i'm in the UK bodog isn't available either so there is no chance that i could access that network.

I have no idea why you Euros are totally misrepresenting the state of affairs here in the US but you absolutely are. Of course you'll read a horror story here and there about someone waiting a few weeks for a cashout but all in all it's really not too bad. I have never waited more than 24 hours and I know a lot of people who have had the same experience.

where are these same day cashouts in the cashout thread for revolution. Why did you omit the hefty fee that you have to pay to cash out from juicy stakes.If there are so many they would be swamping that thread on 2+2.
[quote]

Why you felt the need to tell me how instantaneous things are on PokerStars is beyond me. I thought that was common knowledge. Nobody is debating that us here in the US would rather be on Stars but since that's a total non option right now we're more than making due with what we have.

because stars is instantaneous to skrill whereas most other sites take longer to payout to skrill including the US facing sites.
Have you ever even played on WPN's software?

I have actually partly because i was staking some people to play there.That finished when Black chip stopped P2P transfers , HEM wasn't supported atthat time . Also you are completely avoiding mentioning the rake rape that goes by the name of the beast promotion . Takes from the many and gives to the few who grind relentlessly.

I wasn't aware of any hefty cashout fee on Juicy Stakes but then again I haven't put money onto or withdrawn from that site in a handful of months. Things change. They just merged player pools with Intertops (which I have an account on) and when (if) the traffic picks up on that network any time soon again I'll be depositing on Intertops as I do know that their cashier has a more reliable track record than JS.

Bovada and WPN are quite reliable with cashouts and depositing is as simple as entering in your credit card # just like with PokerStars. HM2 and PT4 work with WPN and as far as I know they work on a session by session basis with Bovada as that site has "anonymous" poker so you never know who you're playing against or any of their stats from session to session. Just to add to this - WPN's software has undergone a series of upgrades over the last 90 days and I have to stress that it really isn't too bad. it's quite comparable to Stars at this point.

As for the Beast: A lot of people love it and a lot of people hate it. However, they just started the Sit and Crush promotion as well as a Christmas season promotion that a lot of people are raving about. In fact, traffic on WPN has exploded over the past week.

I just think it's irresponsible and unfair for some of you making it out like the state of online poker in the States hasn't improved at all since Black Friday itself. Things could be, and have been, a lot worse. I would recommend WPN to anyone as I don't think there are but one or two states that don't allow it and it has a lengthy track record of reliable withdrawals.

edit: Looking over your reviews of poker rooms which continue to allow US players I see that your information is terribly outdated. Now, I understand that most of you here on FTR aren't from the States but if you're going to accept US players on these forums and actually write reviews of the sites that do allow US players I don't think it's asking to much to see timely updates in an attempt to actually give people credible information. We're going through a tough time in the online community here in the states but let's not forget that a) things can and have been worse and b) the US is still the center of the poker world. Not Europe. Not Canada. The US. It would be nice if the Europeans stuck out in the middle of nowhere would remember this and act accordingly.

Originally Posted by Nostalgia

He spouted off ignorance and cursed up a storm in his "welcome back thread". The fact that you tolerate posts like his makes this forum look like a joke compared to the other major poker sites around the web. No way around that fact.

It would be nice if you actually enforced some kind of etiquette and code of conduct around here. It might even make the forum look legitimate.

i would have thought you would have learnt about how to behave on a forum

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/55...nning-1392530/

but then again you seem to have anger management issues in real life

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/85...stion-1386463/

Originally Posted by Keith

but then again you seem to have anger management issues in real life

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/85...stion-1386463/

Wow, did you actually read the whole thread?

Firstly, that is some of the funniest shit I have ever read. Secondly, this guy has some serious problems. 2 court cases relating to him/his family (from what I could make out) on the final couple of pages of the thread from the second link.

Originally Posted by Nostalgia

I wasn't aware of any hefty cashout fee on Juicy Stakes but then again I haven't put money onto or withdrawn from that site in a handful of months. Things change. They just merged player pools with Intertops (which I have an account on) and when (if) the traffic picks up on that network any time soon again I'll be depositing on Intertops as I do know that their cashier has a more reliable track record than JS.

but How often exactly have you withdrawn from Juicy. if you hadn't withdrawn from juicy for a handful of months its extremely unlikely that you got a withdrawal prior to mid october. cashouts to US players by cheque were taking over 5months at best. http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&postcount=660 as an example.

Bovada and WPN are quite reliable with cashouts and depositing is as simple as entering in your credit card # just like with PokerStars. HM2 and PT4 work with WPN and as far as I know they work on a session by session basis with Bovada as that site has "anonymous" poker so you never know who you're playing against or any of their stats from session to session. Just to add to this - WPN's software has undergone a series of upgrades over the last 90 days and I have to stress that it really isn't too bad. it's quite comparable to Stars at this point.

How can you moan about the accuracy of the site reviews whilst putting out false information like this.HM2 and PT4 do work with WPN perfectly however you cannot use their HUDS whilst playing at Bovada. HEM and pokertracker comply with the sites wishes and switch off HUDs at sites which don't allow them. Hands can be downloaded and imported..i think you need to use a converter though and only real use is for analysing your own play since you won't get stats against other individual players.
There is a basic HUD available for bovada from Holdem indicator but with bovada stats only being for that table session actually getting a reliable sample size for most stats is unlikely.

As for the Beast: A lot of people love it and a lot of people hate it. However, they just started the Sit and Crush promotion as well as a Christmas season promotion that a lot of people are raving about. In fact, traffic on WPN has exploded over the past week.

You are playing 2nl . you have no idea how the rake rape that is the beast crushs winrates at the tables at which it applies making it extremely hard for players at 10 and 25nl to actually beat the rake and move up.Fish love it because they think they can win big money . they don't have a hope of any sizeable winnings. former SNE stars players are playing breakeven poker mass tabling for long periods of time playing break even or slightly losing poker to win the serious money. "normal" players do not stand a chance.

I just think it's irresponsible and unfair for some of you making it out like the state of online poker in the States hasn't improved at all since Black Friday itself. Things could be, and have been, a lot worse. I would recommend WPN to anyone as I don't think there are but one or two states that don't allow it and it has a lengthy track record of reliable withdrawals.

what is irresponsible is trying to make out that there is no risk for USA based players depositing to and from poker sites. There is always a risk for the sites that offer real money poker to USA based players and as such rest of the world players limit their exposure to those sites.Stars/full tilt and cereus were not shut down for offering poker to US players. They were shut down for the bank fraud that was necessary for them to accept and make payment to USA players that contravened UIGEA. As such they were committing federal crimes each time that those transactions went through and based on the fact that they were federal crimes DOJ used international law enforcement/money laundering agreements to seize the proceeds of those crimes internationally.
ROW players have experienced the pain of losing bankroll due to the actions of DOJ with regards to Full tilt and cereus where players funds were not segregated from company assets and were seized (aside from an internal frauds that were going on) so that it is easier for ROW players to stay away from the us facing sites.ROW players playing on US facing sites do so knowing that their funds could end up being seized and should be only putting money on those sites that they can afford to lose.
The reason that cashouts take/took so long is that rooms have to pay hefty payment processing fees to people who are facillitating a crime to make the payout back to USA players.Finding reliable processors willing to launder the money through the bank system is risky and many have simply stolen the money. Other rooms just operated a business model of acquiring players at extreme rakeback rates that effectively meant that they were certain to lose money before payment processing costs were included(lock poker).

edit: Looking over your reviews of poker rooms which continue to allow US players I see that your information is terribly outdated. Now, I understand that most of you here on FTR aren't from the States but if you're going to accept US players on these forums and actually write reviews of the sites that do allow US players I don't think it's asking to much to see timely updates in an attempt to actually give people credible information.

You might not realise it but when i originally signed up most players at FTR were USA based players . FTR is never euro centric , black friday just meant that most USA players lost their bankrolls overnight or had them frozen and unavailable , many just left and stopped playing as they didn't want to experience a repeat. Your own post shows inaccuracies so why hold FTR to keep up with the fluid state of USA poker legislation when the number of potential signups at the moment is extremely low and sites terms and conditions have been changing weekly for some of this year. Never rely on 1 review when looking to sign up at a site, read forum threads dedicated to a site and find out problems/benefits that way before depositing.

We're going through a tough time in the online community here in the states but let's not forget that a) things can and have been worse and b) the US is still the center of the poker world. Not Europe. Not Canada. The US. It would be nice if the Europeans stuck out in the middle of nowhere would remember this and act accordingly.

the funny thing is that its actually the USA players that are stuck in the middle of nowhere and would love to get back into the mainstream of online world and have access to pokerstars real money games again. Why do you think many US online poker pros have emigrated if the USA is the centre of the poker world. there is no centre of the online poker world ...theres just the countries that have access to the elite sites like pokerstars and the disadvantaged who do not get access simply because of where they happen to live.

I would love to see some evidence of withdrawals from Nostalgia showing his deposit and withdrawals. If you want to prove that US has nothing to worry about show us a bank statement and a screenshot of your withdrawal amounts and deposits with dates so we can see the fees, time and method you used. You're defending a position like you have something to lose. We have all lived this mess that the DOJ and US govt has created, even the non US players. We have seen online poker reduced to a shadow of it's former self. We all want the US to come back, and I find it hard to believe that poker sites, forums and the like are misrepresenting the issue right now when it's in all of our best interest that the US players came back as before

Also after reading Keith's links I don't feel so horrible now about wanting to ban Nostalgia back at the beginning of this thread. I felt it was just my old self creeeping in, but it turns out I had some sense of the hammer that might need to be

Originally Posted by Keith

i would have thought you would have learnt about how to behave on a forum

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/55...nning-1392530/

I like how he was complaining about over-moderation on 2p2, and then comes here and complains about under-moderation of "etiquette and code of conduct" violations.

Nostaliga, all that sentiment you expressed about having a thick skin being necessary for playing poker...you might want to apply that to yourself a little more. You seem very sensitive to criticism and naughty words being thrown at you.

Originally Posted by Keith

but How often exactly have you withdrawn from Juicy. if you hadn't withdrawn from juicy for a handful of months its extremely unlikely that you got a withdrawal prior to mid october. cashouts to US players by cheque were taking over 5months at best. http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&postcount=660 as an example.

How can you moan about the accuracy of the site reviews whilst putting out false information like this.HM2 and PT4 do work with WPN perfectly however you cannot use their HUDS whilst playing at Bovada. HEM and pokertracker comply with the sites wishes and switch off HUDs at sites which don't allow them. Hands can be downloaded and imported..i think you need to use a converter though and only real use is for analysing your own play since you won't get stats against other individual players.
There is a basic HUD available for bovada from Holdem indicator but with bovada stats only being for that table session actually getting a reliable sample size for most stats is unlikely.

You are playing 2nl . you have no idea how the rake rape that is the beast crushs winrates at the tables at which it applies making it extremely hard for players at 10 and 25nl to actually beat the rake and move up.Fish love it because they think they can win big money . they don't have a hope of any sizeable winnings. former SNE stars players are playing breakeven poker mass tabling for long periods of time playing break even or slightly losing poker to win the serious money. "normal" players do not stand a chance.

what is irresponsible is trying to make out that there is no risk for USA based players depositing to and from poker sites. There is always a risk for the sites that offer real money poker to USA based players and as such rest of the world players limit their exposure to those sites.Stars/full tilt and cereus were not shut down for offering poker to US players. They were shut down for the bank fraud that was necessary for them to accept and make payment to USA players that contravened UIGEA. As such they were committing federal crimes each time that those transactions went through and based on the fact that they were federal crimes DOJ used international law enforcement/money laundering agreements to seize the proceeds of those crimes internationally.
ROW players have experienced the pain of losing bankroll due to the actions of DOJ with regards to Full tilt and cereus where players funds were not segregated from company assets and were seized (aside from an internal frauds that were going on) so that it is easier for ROW players to stay away from the us facing sites.ROW players playing on US facing sites do so knowing that their funds could end up being seized and should be only putting money on those sites that they can afford to lose.
The reason that cashouts take/took so long is that rooms have to pay hefty payment processing fees to people who are facillitating a crime to make the payout back to USA players.Finding reliable processors willing to launder the money through the bank system is risky and many have simply stolen the money. Other rooms just operated a business model of acquiring players at extreme rakeback rates that effectively meant that they were certain to lose money before payment processing costs were included(lock poker).

You might not realise it but when i originally signed up most players at FTR were USA based players . FTR is never euro centric , black friday just meant that most USA players lost their bankrolls overnight or had them frozen and unavailable , many just left and stopped playing as they didn't want to experience a repeat. Your own post shows inaccuracies so why hold FTR to keep up with the fluid state of USA poker legislation when the number of potential signups at the moment is extremely low and sites terms and conditions have been changing weekly for some of this year. Never rely on 1 review when looking to sign up at a site, read forum threads dedicated to a site and find out problems/benefits that way before depositing.


the funny thing is that its actually the USA players that are stuck in the middle of nowhere and would love to get back into the mainstream of online world and have access to pokerstars real money games again. Why do you think many US online poker pros have emigrated if the USA is the centre of the poker world. there is no centre of the online poker world ...theres just the countries that have access to the elite sites like pokerstars and the disadvantaged who do not get access simply because of where they happen to live.

I don't even know what to say. I can't believe that this is important enough to you to write that absolute novel of bullshit and drivel.

I have two poker accounts that I use: One on Revolution and one on WPN. I have had no problems depositing or withdrawing from either. None. I know a lot of people who have had the same positive experience. If you look over the 2p2 threads there are lots of positive reports where people withdrew large amounts of money without a problem whatsoever.

I still have to say that you're just a little stubborn, nasty little foreigner who wants, for some reason, people to believe that there are no viable options for playing online poker in the US. Well, WPN's traffic is skyrocketing on a weekly basis at this point and while you stick your head in the sand, people are playing poker here and cashing out with no problems. If you want to go find the handful of reports on 2p2 where someone did have a problem, fine. But that's hardly evidence that the majority aren't having a smooth experience.

The US is the center of the poker world. The game started here and it ends here. You're just enjoying a brief period of history right now where you can play on the most popular sites and we can't. Once that ends, you'll be back to second fiddle in regards to everything poker.

I just can't believe you wrote that much. That's truly unbelievable.

edit: I have no idea what you're talking about in regards to the HUDS. PT4 and HM2 work just fine on all of these networks we're discussing. Why is it that this forum community is 6 months behind the rest of the online poker world in every single discussion? You're fucking clueless.

Originally Posted by Cobra_1878

Firstly, that is some of the funniest shit I have ever read.

I can totally see your big, dumb, British head sitting in front of the screen. How about you get something called a life? If you think any of this is the funniest thing you've ever seen then you certainly haven't lived very much. You're the loser who's spent all this time analyzing your bullshit hands on this forum with these other European tards and yet you're still stuck at 10nl, making laughable mistakes. Every other hand you post you were absolutely clueless. Someone threw out a big fuck you bet on the turn or river and you timed out because you were baffled and then you came on this forum and begged people for help. You're fucking terrible at poker. Find another hobby because if you're stuck in the micros this long - this one's not for you.

Ya, after reading those links to your 2P2 threads and seeing how you post here I think I am going to stop this. You post one more abrasive, pretentious name calling post without answering a single response to anything that has been posted here and it will be your last.

Last warning Nostalgia

Ya after reading you spew shit at another mod in the other thread and tripping on FTR as a forum in general I figure I will end it here. You had a larger forum in 2P2 and couldn't manage to stay active there and then insult us for being smaller.

I don't want to end this conversation so if anyone wants to bring some evidence that shows US poker to be in better shape as far as Nostalgia was trying to argue feel free. Nothing would be better for us than to have evidence it's true,

Originally Posted by jyms

Ya after reading you spew shit at another mod in the other thread and tripping on FTR as a forum in general I figure I will end it here.

Thanks jyms. Not sorry to see the back of this guy, only sorry I don't have the roll yet to bumhunt him at 50NL.

hes playing 2nl boris , and i'm guessing the 200nlo bad beat posted was probably play money at stars that he has got converted. just drop down and bum hunt , luckily he has no problems depositing.

Originally Posted by Nostalgia

I don't even know what to say. I can't believe that this is important enough to you to write that absolute novel of bullshit and drivel.

I have two poker accounts that I use: One on Revolution and one on WPN. I have had no problems depositing or withdrawing from either. None. I know a lot of people who have had the same positive experience. If you look over the 2p2 threads there are lots of positive reports where people withdrew large amounts of money without a problem whatsoever.

I still have to say that you're just a little stubborn, nasty little foreigner who wants, for some reason, people to believe that there are no viable options for playing online poker in the US. Well, WPN's traffic is skyrocketing on a weekly basis at this point and while you stick your head in the sand, people are playing poker here and cashing out with no problems. If you want to go find the handful of reports on 2p2 where someone did have a problem, fine. But that's hardly evidence that the majority aren't having a smooth experience.

Unfortunately you are banned so that this conversation can't continue, however , where did i say there are no viable options for playing US online poker?. You have your own agenda and that is to try and increase traffic on the site that you are playing on. I have no axe to grind , i just gave an accurate portrayal of the situation facing US players. a couple of weeks ago there were 5 or 6 2nl FR tables running when i sweated a guy, last night that was possibly up to 7 tables ....hardly a skyrocketing of traffic. The downside of the tables that were running was that most of hem were shallow tables.

The US is the center of the poker world. The game started here and it ends here. You're just enjoying a brief period of history right now where you can play on the most popular sites and we can't. Once that ends, you'll be back to second fiddle in regards to everything poker.

I just can't believe you wrote that much. That's truly unbelievable.

lol.

edit: I have no idea what you're talking about in regards to the HUDS. PT4 and HM2 work just fine on all of these networks we're discussing. Why is it that this forum community is 6 months behind the rest of the online poker world in every single discussion? You're fucking clueless.

NO they don't work on Bovada . You don't play there and have no clue what you are talking about. You just think that because you say something that it is true.You have no interest in checking your facts to ensure that what you are saying is true.

FWIW I would strongly believe Keith over anyone else in all of these facts. I stopped responding in hopes Keith answered this thread since he's easily the most knowledgeable FTR reg we have.

Originally Posted by Nostalgia

I still have to say that you're just a little stubborn, nasty little foreigner

did make me laugh

bye Nostalgia!

lol what a tosser. poor fella, life is going to suck with that attitude

The funny thing about Nostaliga is that he's one of those guys who's criticisms of others are more fitting for himself than anyone. Everyone else is arrogant, rude, ignorant, an over-sensitive baby, etc but not him. He's a bastion of truth and righteousness.

My banney senses were tingling early too jyms, but it was kinda entertaining to let it play out and watch him melt down. I was entertained for a bit at any rate.

ya I was willing to let it go if information about the US market was able to be discussed, and having someone be so wrong but adamant in the BC only helps with discussion. But in reading his 2P2 threads and seeing the insults about our forum just had me think this was going to get far more messy than we need

There's an incred thread on 2p2 where he did basically exactly the same thing. His question was that he was on probation for throwing coffee as some IRS guy and he wanted to know if it was OK for him to smoke pot 21 days before his mandatory drug test which would see him charged with possession and breach of conditions if he failed.

Bright guy

Ya that was one of the threads Keith posted a link to above. It weighed heavily in my decision. This guy is a moron greater than the likes we have seen here. And we have had Slevin, Dwarfman and ripptyde

So yeah here's a report about an IRS officer being assaulted with a cup of coffee in NY State.
http://www.treasury.gov/tigta/oi_highlights.shtml

Search for keyword coffee.

Originally Posted by jyms

Ya that was one of the threads Keith posted a link to above. It weighed heavily in my decision. This guy is a moron greater than the likes we have seen here. And we have had Slevin, Dwarfman and ripptyde

I actually miss slevin just a wee bit. I doubt I'll be feeling nostalgic about Nostalgia though.