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Folding 2 pair on the river here, what do I beat?

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  1. #1

    Default Folding 2 pair on the river here, what do I beat?

    villain was pretty loose, playing alot of hands. I seen a few of his hole cards in one instance he played a nut flush draw with a gutshot and A outs passively heads up. In another hand he had about 40bbs, it was a min-raised pot of about 24cents , he was first to act and bet pot on a J high board, and bet out another hand with top pair on flop I got to see his hand . Idk what to give him in this hand 2 pair or a straight on the flop ? I feel like thinking he had Top pair is kind of optimistic here. thoughts plz

    $0.01/$0.02 No Limit Holdem
    PokerStars
    6 Players
    Hand Conversion Powered by WeakTight Poker Hand History Converter

    Stacks:
    UTG ($2.13) 107bb
    UTG+1 ($2.12) 106bb
    CO ($1.85) 93bb
    BTN ($2) 100bb
    SB ($2.83) 142bb
    BB Hero ($5.72) 286bb

    Pre-Flop: (0.03, 6 players) Hero is BB
    1 fold, UTG+1 raises to $0.06, CO calls $0.06, 1 fold, SB calls $0.05, Hero calls $0.04
    Flop: ($0.24, 4 players)

    SB bets $0.08, Hero calls $0.08, 1 fold, CO calls $0.08

    Turn: ($0.48, 3)
    SB bets $0.22, Hero calls $0.22, CO folds River: ($0.92, 2)

    SB bets $0.50

    Final Pot: $1.42
    Hero shows


    SB wins $1.39 (net +$0.53)

    Hero lost $0.36
    UTG+1 lost $0.06
    CO lost $0.14
  2. #2
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
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    You're in a 4-handed pot. How is it that your reads are on "villain" (singular)?
    What about the other 2 villains?

    What's SB's range to open 6-handed? They were playing loose, but loose with positional awareness, or just stupidly loose from all positions?

    When he bets 1/3 PSB OTF, what does that tell you about his range, based on the notes you've shared?


    Why are you calling 1/3 PSB on a wet flop when you have 2-pair?

    SB bets <1/2 PSB OTT. What does that tell you about his range after the turn card hits?

    Your notes are not clear. Did you take a note that he bet PSB OTF when you never saw his hand? Maybe he flopped a set. Maybe it was an airball. In any case, it's not going to help you on any future decision, so scrap that note, IMO. It tells you he has a PSB in his toolbox, but I don't see that as being too helpful if you don't know what he did that with.
    You can find any pattern you want to any level of precision you want, if you're prepared to ignore enough data.
  3. #3
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
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    If SB is playing positionally aware ranges PRE, then we really need to know whether or not they take this line with any 1-pair or less hands. If so, we have to call the river.

    Still, calling those weak bets OTF and OTT is burning money if they're not playing tighter from EP. That range hits us, but it hits UTG+1 super hard.

    Come up with a range for the UTG+1's opening range and see how they hit that flop using equilab. I'm at work, so don't have equilab on this computer, but I suspect it's very often that UTG+1 has a real piece of that board.

    What is your equity with JTo against the range you guess for them?


    It's difficult 'cause we have the worst hand in our range for this decision. We hit the worst hand that beats 1-pair hands on a board that is going to show us a lot of straights and sets at showdown. It's not super easy to call OTR. You could have made it easier on yourself on earlier streets, though.

    This is a tough hand. Those weak bets are screaming at me to raise/fold, but just calling down is OK, too. I think you have to call the semi-brick OTR if you've decided to call OTF and OTT. Villain has way more busted flush draws than made straights in their range.
    You can find any pattern you want to any level of precision you want, if you're prepared to ignore enough data.
  4. #4
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
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    *EDIT from first post. SB didn't open PRE, obv. They called.

    What's your guess at SB's range to call PRE?
    You can find any pattern you want to any level of precision you want, if you're prepared to ignore enough data.
  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by mojo
    Why are you calling 1/3 PSB on a wet flop when you have 2-pair?
    We have bottom two pair on the BB on TJQ flop vs an UTG open, facing a donk bet from the SB, UTG still to act behind us. This is a clear call on the flop.

    I'm calling this river bet. Yes he can have two pair or a straight, but he can also have KQ KJ KT or maybe a flush draw. Ok the latter is less likely because he seems to be passive with big draws, but he doesn't seem positionally aware and loose players can be unpredictable. I'd want to see what he has here, and bottom two is not the worst hand to look him up with.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  6. #6
    IDK honestly I think I should've re-raised the flop, this guy bet utg was pretty tight I give him 88+,A9s+,KJs+,QJs,AJo+,KQo

    the villain is the LAG in SB, his call could really be anything he was calling many hands pre-flop oop.Idk if we should even try to list the LAG's range he could have any two here he was calling almost every hand preflop. what would we even give him pre.

    on the flop the LAG bets out 1/3pot ,l , I was confused at the time it went right over my head that he donk bet the flop I only realized that once Ong said so, That makes me wish I raised him more it looks like he was trying to see another card with that detail or trying to rig up the pot with a draw. Idk I didnt think shoving on the flop was a good idea because someone couldve flopped a straight / had higher two pair /set ,there was flush draw . I shouldve raised on the flop and maybe fold to a re-raise?
  7. #7
    We probably are ahead of the SB's range, quite comfortably in fact, but it's not a heads up pot vs the SB. UTG raised and is yet to act. He can easily have TT/JJ/QQ/AK. Our position here quite frankly sucks, this is an excellent example of why position is so important.

    Raising the turn might be an acceptable play, simply because UTG has folded the flop. But on the flop, we kind of need to see how UTG reacts to the donk bet.

    I could be wrong, raising flop might be the best play, but if UTG doesn't fold, suddenly it's a horrible spot. I think we should call and see what UTG does. If we think we beat the laggy guy, raise the turn.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  8. #8
    The CO is in the hand too and we can't ignore him. He only calls the flop so I'm not worried about him on the turn, not when it's the 6d.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong

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