A couple of hands to go over - Had to fold the turn?

Winning Poker Network - $0.02 NL - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

MP: $1.00
MP+1: $4.43
CO: $1.39
BTN: $1.30
SB: $1.00
Hero (BB): $1.46
UTG: $1.10
UTG+1: $0.41

SB posts SB $0.01, Hero posts BB $0.02

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.03) Hero has J J

fold, fold, fold, MP+1 raises to $0.04, CO calls $0.04, fold, fold, Hero raises to $0.15, fold, CO calls $0.11

Flop: ($0.35, 2 players) T 2 7
Hero bets $0.34, CO calls $0.34

Turn: ($1.03, 2 players) K
Hero checks, CO bets $0.90 and is all-in, fold

CO wins $0.98

Winning Poker Network - $0.02 NL - Holdem - 7 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BB: $1.00
Hero (UTG): $4.21
UTG+1: $2.31
MP: $2.25
CO: $5.08
BTN: $1.85
SB: $2.19

SB posts SB $0.01, BB posts BB $0.02

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.03) Hero has A J

Hero raises to $0.08, fold, fold, fold, BTN calls $0.08, SB calls $0.07, fold

Flop: ($0.26, 3 players) A 7 4
SB bets $0.12, Hero calls $0.12, BTN raises to $0.24, fold, Hero calls $0.12

Turn: ($0.86, 2 players) 3
Hero checks, BTN bets $0.41, fold

BTN wins $0.82

H1: Do I have to fold that once the King comes down on the turn?

H2: I was absolutely clueless here. I still think I had him beat but I can't imagine what he was betting that heavily with.

No villain stats?

Well, assuming unknowns...

H1 I'm calling, we're good pretty often here and there's no reverse implied odds, pretty easy I think but I haven't put him on a range.

H2 I think fold flop to raise, it's dry as fuck and if I have no reads on him, he has none on me and shouldn't expect me to fold an ace here to a minraise. He's very unlikely to be drawing and I wonder if he's gonna do this with enough Ax that we beat for us to continue. The fact he minraises reps quite some strength, and I expect to see sets and aces up almost exclusively.

Just noticed that sb donks flop in the AJ hand. I prob raise here to $0.30 in an attempt to get HU in position, and if button 3bets it's an easy fold.

Originally Posted by OngBonga

No villain stats?

Well, assuming unknowns...

H1 I'm calling, we're good pretty often here and there's no reverse implied odds, pretty easy I think but I haven't put him on a range.

H2 I think fold flop to raise, it's dry as fuck and if I have no reads on him, he has none on me and shouldn't expect me to fold an ace here to a minraise. He's very unlikely to be drawing and I wonder if he's gonna do this with enough Ax that we beat for us to continue. The fact he minraises reps quite some strength, and I expect to see sets and aces up almost exclusively.

Forgot about villain stats. Next time I post hands I'll include them. Sorry.

H1: Reverse implied odds? I'm going to go look that up. I just was in the middle of a run of difficult hands and I didn't want to jam there only to see him turn over a pair of K's or a set, you know?

H2: I had my finger on the fold button for like three seconds and then got caught in the switches because of the previous hand or two like H1 and wanted to see. Once the button bet the turn like that though it was pretty clear I was out.

Thanks for the input and your time. I was up $2.10 in this ~250 hand session and wound up back to even after having to fold the turn a handful of times in situations like this. Then there was a horrible hand I played where I had 222 and just totally didn't see the straight draw on the board and lost .80 cents. I just wanted to recap some of these turn folds.

Reverse implied odds is basically the money we lose on future streets when we pay more bets with our hand. Since he's all in, we can't lose any more money, so it's simply a case of range vs pot odds. I suspect we're good to call here. Had the king flopped, I'd be more inclined to fold, but even then the number of flush draws in his range might make it a call.

And don't be sorry about leaving out stats, it's just that posting them means you'll get better responses, so it's in your interest to give as much info about villains as you know.

Originally Posted by OngBonga

Reverse implied odds is basically the money we lose on future streets when we pay more bets with our hand. Since he's all in, we can't lose any more money, so it's simply a case of range vs pot odds. I suspect we're good to call here. Had the king flopped, I'd be more inclined to fold, but even then the number of flush draws in his range might make it a call.

And don't be sorry about leaving out stats, it's just that posting them means you'll get better responses, so it's in your interest to give as much info about villains as you know.

Once again - Thanks a lot. I really do appreciate it. I'm trying to make sure I learn from each and every session at this point as I really need to put these nanostakes behind me.

I made the mistake of looking at my overall winnings for the session around that hand and saw how much I had dropped back down and folded on that turn K as a result. I guess in the future I'll make sure I don't peak so I don't let previous hands effect a future hand.

No problem, I'll be honest - I only post my thoughts because critisism helps. Sometimes I stubbornly think I'm right, but I'm not stubborn here, I could be wrong and people like m2m, griff and renton might come along and say something different. If they do, I'd pay more attention to them than me. I do.

Originally Posted by OngBonga

No problem, I'll be honest - I only post my thoughts because critisism helps. Sometimes I stubbornly think I'm right, but I'm not stubborn here, I could be wrong and people like m2m, griff and renton might come along and say something different. If they do, I'd pay more attention to them than me. I do.

Fair enough. Hopefully I do get some other responses to this. I had a few hands in that last session that I really think I can learn something from. As said - It should have been a winning session and was for ~175 hands. At least I knew when to throw the towel in instead of going on tilt to make up for my losses.

I guess in the future I'll make sure I don't peak so I don't let previous hands effect a future hand.

And definitely this. The only reason previous hands should influence a decision is when you're considering what you've seen the current villain do in previous hands. What your database says about your turn profit is irrelevant. What's relevant is does he have enough hands in his range that we beat for this to be a profitable call? That is all that matters now he's all in.

Since he called a flop bet, he's unlikely to have non-draw and non paired Kx hands in his range. He'll have some Kx, like KT, but not as much as if the king flopped. That's why I think we have a call here, because he can have AT QT JT flush draws and more, as well as the obvious scare hands like sets Kxdd and KT.

Originally Posted by OngBonga

What your database says about your turn profit is irrelevant.

Yeah I'm more than properly bankrolled for these stakes, too. I just started out up 100+ BB's that session after I flopped a flush when a villain was holding AA and I stacked him. Once I got into a few of these difficult hands and lost a bit I started looking and as a result, got myself caught in the switches.

Lesson learned.

I'm with Ong on both of these - hand 1 I'd call - he can easily jam diamonds or spazz with Tx.

Hand 2 is a tough spot as played, so I agree with Ong that raising the flop donk seems good - if the BTN then comes over the top, we're done with the hand. Similarly, if the BTN cold calls a flop raise, we're done and I just want to check/fold the remaining streets. If the BTN folds and the donker calls I think it's less clear cut - I still probably try to get to showdown cheaply, but I'd be more willing to let one more bet go in if necessary.

H1 - i'd squeeze bigger pre to .20 , pot flop and shove turn which would be roughly a pot sized bet.

H2- i want some stats- but i'm raising that flop donk to .50 and depending on stats i may shove over any raise simply from having seen the way some of these jokers play their hands.

Originally Posted by Keith

simply from having seen the way some of these jokers play their hands.

It's crazy, huh? You really have to keep your head straight during these micros sessions these days. You'll fold to a villain in a situation like this once, twice, then watch someone else call him with a similar board and find out that he's bluffing. It's really easy to get caught in the switches.

The majority of the time...maybe 70% of the time or so - if they're betting on the turn and river: They have it. Of course there are exceptions.

Originally Posted by BorisTheSpider

I'm with Ong on both of these - hand 1 I'd call - he can easily jam diamonds or spazz with Tx.

Yeah this hand bothered me. I would absolutely call if given the chance again. I think this was one of those times where he was - as you put it - spazzing with a marginal holding. I just got scared off the hand by that K as it was the second worst card I could have seen.

I just got scared off the hand by that K as it was the second worst card I could have seen.

There's many worse cards than this on the turn. All the aces, tens, and diamonds.

Still happy to gii on turn though.

Hand 1 - Your hand is good enough to shove here. If you know villain is spazzy/aggro when you check and show weakness, then I would c/c. Either way, not c/f!

Hand 2- Man I'm such a station, I feel like I call again but I think folding turn is good. I would have a hard time folding to flop min raise, esp with BDFD.

Originally Posted by griffey24

Hand 1 - Your hand is good enough to shove here. If you know villain is spazzy/aggro when you check and show weakness, then I would c/c. Either way, not c/f!

Hand 2- Man I'm such a station, I feel like I call again but I think folding turn is good. I would have a hard time folding to flop min raise, esp with BDFD.

H1: Same thing regarding hindsight - I would shove this every time if I could do it over again.

H2: I think my fold was good, actually. I'm pretty sure this guy had a set. That said - I really, really would have liked to see that hand play out.