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5nl jacks line check

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  1. #1

    Default 5nl jacks line check

    PokerStars Zoom No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (6 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from http://flopturnriver.com/

    Button ($4.52)
    SB ($5.09)
    BB ($6.01)
    UTG ($5.46)
    MP ($4.61)
    Hero (CO) ($17.61)

    Preflop: Hero is CO with J, J
    2 folds, Hero raises to $0.15, 1 fold, SB raises to $0.50, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.35

    Flop: ($1.05) 10, 2, 10 (2 players)
    SB bets $0.55, Hero calls $0.55

    Turn: ($2.15) J (2 players)
    SB checks, Hero checks

    River: ($2.15) K (2 players)
    SB bets $1.22, Hero raises to $4.40, SB calls $2.82 (All-In)

    Villain unknown.

    I'm never really comfortable in these spots pre flop. I hate folding to a 3b with jacks because we have a great hand, I hate calling because we hate so many flops, and I hate 4betting because he can only continue with a range that crushes us. Calling seems the least horrible.

    Flop is as good as we could reasonably hope for. Sure there's gonna be some Tx in his range, along with his QQ+, but we look really good against everything else. Calling seems ldo here, right? Raising is overplaying our hand, folding is nitty as hell and suggests we're setmining jacks, which seems ludicrous.

    Turn is obviously perfect. Now we lose to a single combo. When he checks I feel like his range is now tilted heavily towards AQ/AK. Should I be betting or is checking to give him river rope better? I considered a small bet that AQ/AK can call for drawing value, but maybe that looks too trappy and I figure I'm better off letting him see a river, I feel like Ax can fire river when I check turn because my range is still wide enough to have stuff like 99.

    River is great. Ok his KK got there but he has QQ/AA/AQ/AK so much more often, and all of these either b/f or b/c river, so shove is ldo.

    All good or not?
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  2. #2
    Looks good, question though. What if turn was Kd? How do we play to him betting, and him checking.
  3. #3
    I hate king and ace turns, and will fold to any reasonable bet.

    I think brick turns and rivers are more awkward. Assume turn 2 river 2. We have a great hand, but does he keep firing AK? How about 99? Should we call off for stacks? When I called the flop I was worried that I was getting sucked in. As happy as I was with the turn, this would probably be a better hand to post if it wasn't a jack.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  4. #4
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    what hands do you call with pre in this spot? can't fold this flop if you call pre. Bet turn something like $0.65. Can you find a shitty/almost free computer and run that to play music on while you poker, and then run a hud on your poker computer?
  5. #5
    I'm with daven , something like a 1/3 pot on the turn can look like we floated flop to steal on the turn and may end up with QQ+ shoving over anyway or get a crying call from drawing hands whilst still building pot to be able to get it in on the river. If we check behind on the turn we give him a free draw and he just folds when he misses although checking behind gives him the opportunity to bet his weak hands on the river.I think you should be setting up for stacks with this hand and bluff catch with your weaker hands.

    oh and back when i was younger , we used to have these weird devices called radios and cd players for playing music .They were a lot more portable than computers as well.
    Last edited by Keith; 01-08-2015 at 05:50 AM.
  6. #6
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Villain unknown.
    Villain's stack is $5.09. What would you broadly expect from a player with this stack size?
    What are your player pool reads for 5NL Zoom?

    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Should I be betting or is checking to give him river rope better?
    This is really tough, because I would do different things against different people.

    First guiding principle: I have the top of my range, and I am betting to establish a shove of reasonable size.
    2nd) If Villain's continuing range against me is strong, then I am likely to get stacks in
    3rd) If Villain's actual hand is weak, then I'm not going to get stacks anyway, and them's the breaks.

    Sizing would be based on reads - either player pool or player specific.

    Mostly, I would bet near 2/3 pot, since people aren't too skittish about calling turn bets on Bovada.
  7. #7
    Villain's stack is $5.09. What would you broadly expect from a player with this stack size?
    What are your player pool reads for 5NL Zoom?
    Not understacked, and I expect to be squeezed less and called wider compared to higher stakes. That's pretty much it. I'm certainly not thinking about villain in any more detail than this. I sometimes have a look to see what country they're from, assuming German and Canadian players to generally be better than Russian and British players. But here I don't recall looking to see where he's from, I don't consider it compelling enough to base decisions on. It's usually something I do if see villain do something that strikes me as odd... I'm more likely to call vs a Russian than a German because the Russian is more likely to be drunk.

    I do try to squeeze reads out of unknowns, but I don't tend to allow them to be the basis of my decision.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  8. #8
    I'm certainly curious to know how people play rag turns and rivers. Should I be calling all the way with an overpair?

    I feel like in theory I should call turn and fold river, but in practise I call turn and call river because sigh pot committed.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by daven View Post
    what hands do you call with pre in this spot? can't fold this flop if you call pre. Bet turn something like $0.65. Can you find a shitty/almost free computer and run that to play music on while you poker, and then run a hud on your poker computer?
    No. The HUD thing is something I'm more concerned about at 25nl and above tbh. I'm out of my depth at 25nl without a HUD, but not at lower stakes.

    As for my what I call pf, I think 99-QQ, AJs AQs AQo AKo and sometimes JTs T9s KK/AA
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Keith View Post
    oh and back when i was younger , we used to have these weird devices called radios and cd players for playing music .They were a lot more portable than computers as well.
    Yeah well I used to be a DJ so I had a full set up, but it never got replaced as it started to fall apart. Now I just have an amp and a computer. Radio is shit.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  11. #11
    Looks good to me!
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay-Z
    I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
    I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks
  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    I'm certainly curious to know how people play rag turns and rivers. Should I be calling all the way with an overpair?

    I feel like in theory I should call turn and fold river, but in practise I call turn and call river because sigh pot committed.
    if he bets a brick turn its a tough spot, but he checked. I think when he checks hes either giving up( with his Ace rag 3bet bluffs), slowing down with a smaller PP, getting trappy with a T, or pot controlling with QQ+. that would make me want to check back a lot of turns which sucks because that means I have to call river. if I bet turn when checked to, then I cant call a raise, or if he flats my turn bet and lead river I have to fold. this is just one of those spots where its always going to be shit like you said earlier Ong. the real question is which one is less shittier than the other. for that....I don't know but I will be paying attention so when someone does know I can be like fuk yea..WP sir..
    "The harder you work, the luckier you get." ~ courtesy of my fortune cookie from china king

    "One of the best pieces of advice I've ever read in this forum was three words long...

    bet fucking fold." Ong
  13. #13
    Looks fine and I'm sorry villain had Kk.

    Decision on every street comes down to whether you want to play unexploitably on every street against an unknown or make exploitative adjustments based on population reads. A good exercise for you here would be to work out what unexploitable looks like, especially when facing the scenario you mention above when facing turn and river barrels on blank run outs.
  14. #14
    Looks fine and I'm sorry villain had Kk.
    He had [KK+ AQ+], it doesn't matter which one.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong

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