2nl SNAP Too committed to fold OTT

I value bet the turn hoping to be called by a worse Ace. Villain Shoves OTT. Well, I thought about it, but with less than 20% pot odds, I couldn't fold here.

888 Poker - $0.02 NL (6 max) FAST - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: $2.16 (VPIP: 8.33, PFR: 4.17, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 24)
Hero (SB): $2.00
BB: $0.80 (VPIP: 28.57, PFR: 14.29, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 7)
UTG: $1.53 (VPIP: 17.20, PFR: 15.05, 3Bet Preflop: 13.79, Hands: 93)
MP: $2.98 (VPIP: 30.95, PFR: 16.67, 3Bet Preflop: 5.56, Hands: 43)
CO: $1.69

Hero posts SB $0.01, BB posts BB $0.02

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.03) Hero has A K

fold, fold, CO raises to $0.07, fold, Hero raises to $0.22, fold, CO calls $0.15

Flop: ($0.46, 2 players) 2 A 9
Hero bets $0.34, CO calls $0.34

Turn: ($1.14, 2 players) 9
Hero bets $0.57, CO raises to $1.13, Hero calls $0.56

River: ($3.40, 2 players) Q

Hero shows A K (Two Pair, Aces and Nines)
(Pre 67%, Flop 80%, Turn 5%)
CO shows 3 9 (Three of a Kind, Nines)
(Pre 33%, Flop 20%, Turn 95%)
CO wins $3.19

Moral of the story SPR. Also I struggle to see how you have 20% equity here.

Really? I guess you have never played 2nl Snap at 888

So what range would you put Villain on?

Originally Posted by ImSavy

I struggle to see how you have 20% equity here.

This.

Originally Posted by DJAbacus

Really? I guess you have never played 2nl Snap at 888

I haven't.

Originally Posted by DJAbacus

So what range would you put Villain on?

No one's estimation of their range matters except your own. We can discuss how and why you've made your decision to include certain hands in Villain's range, but ultimately, it's your call. You have actual experience in this situation, and we have only guesses.

PLEASE INCLUDE ALL READS AND RANGES YOU HAVE ON VILLAIN IN THE OP.
Stop asking other people to tell you Villain's range. Rather, ask for help in determining Villain's range, but don't take anyone's word for it. Establish the criteria which you use to approximate Villains' ranges. Then we can discuss WHY you made those choices.

Or if you do ask people to give a range on your Villain, then grill them hard to understand why they chose that range. This allows you to learn their process and determine which of the factors they used apply to your villain.

***
Smiley's added to make it clear that we're bros.

If 888 is anything like SkyPoker, which is likely seeing as both sites are primarily gambling sites, then it's reasonable to assume villain can have any Ax here. The fact villain r/c 93o should hint heavily that villain is a spastic and has all Ax. I'd sighcall this turn shove.

We 3-bet with AK and hit top pair then got it in with <100bb stacks. I fail to see the problem here.

Originally Posted by spoonitnow

We 3-bet with AK and hit top pair then got it in with <100bb stacks. I fail to see the problem here.

His sizing is poor, he should set up a turn shove.

Make a note on this villain!

Looks like 5:1 (16%) for that call. I agree that's a call, though probably not by very much.
Normally I'd reckon he was raising with flush draws (very occasionally), some portion of AK, AQ, AJ, and hands that beat you (something like 9-30 combos depending on how wide he calls your 3Bets). I expect the bluffs/optimistic bets to be dominated by 2Pair+ but 5:1 doesn't take a lot of bluffs/fools to call.
Actually I expect the proportion of total stupidity in the opponent's play to be fairly significant for 5:1.


For some reason all the hands you post clip the stats of the only people in the hand who actually matter (you and the villain) -please try to remedy this.


Spoon: At this level I find TPTK often isn't good to get AI: your takers tend to have you beat (85BB is enough to make that klaxon go off for me) -and I've made plenty of these calls on PS
Clearly that's something that's going to be highly dependent on the pool you are playing with but it may well be the case that you want to play your pairs more cautiously on the [T]urn ..but with the flush draws....
Maybe Pot-Betting the Flop and Shoving the Turn would work better but I suspect not.

Originally Posted by Timlagor

For some reason all the hands you post clip the stats of the only people in the hand who actually matter (you and the villain) -please try to remedy this.

If I have any info on a Villain, I will post it, so I tend to remove any Stats that I am aware of because I would like feedback based on unknown Villains. PT4 collects all the hand details so you do get from Villains when you copy HH for posting.

Originally Posted by DJAbacus

I tend to remove any Stats that I am aware of because I would like feedback based on unknown Villains.

Poker is a game where you use your powers of observation and deduction to outsmart people.
You seem to be forcing yourself to play a game where you are prevented from observing things.

Your powers of observation will tell you something about a person based on their stack size alone.
You can argue that it's a vague bit of information - to extrapolate from just stack size.
You'd be right.
However, barely known is a vastly different thing to unknown.

I'll probably pick this nit for a lifetime.
Your choice of words to call villains "unknown" is adding hurdles to your learning experience.

No villain is unknown.
If nothing else, you know what location they chose to play poker.
If nothing else, you know the size of their stack.
If you've seen them fold a hand PRE, then you have the knowledge that they're not playing ATC.

That means the only way they are unknown is if you're actively ignoring their choices.

Originally Posted by DJAbacus

If I have any info on a Villain, I will post it, so I tend to remove any Stats that I am aware of because I would like feedback based on unknown Villains. PT4 collects all the hand details so you do get from Villains when you copy HH for posting.

Are you saying you don't look at the stats when you play or that you want to deprive us of the information you made your decisions based on?

While I don't look at the HUD for every single action when I play, I certainly look any time the decision is in question (basically any time post-flop I'm looking/have looked at some stats for my opponent).

If all you're after is generic strategies I'm not sure how useful it is to be posting individual hands.

Originally Posted by Timlagor

Are you saying you don't look at the stats when you play or that you want to deprive us of the information you made your decisions based on?

While I don't look at the HUD for every single action when I play, I certainly look any time the decision is in question (basically any time post-flop I'm looking/have looked at some stats for my opponent).

If all you're after is generic strategies I'm not sure how useful it is to be posting individual hands.

2nl SNAP doesn't allow HUDs but you can still use tracking software, so I have to manually input Stats, so I have info on plenty of Villains but more often than not hands that I post are unknowns and sometimes the first hand I play against them/

I outline my info collecting strategy in this thread.

http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...ud-198745.html

post #15

Originally Posted by Timlagor

Spoon: At this level I find TPTK often isn't good to get AI: your takers tend to have you beat (85BB is enough to make that klaxon go off for me) -and I've made plenty of these calls on PS
Clearly that's something that's going to be highly dependent on the pool you are playing with but it may well be the case that you want to play your pairs more cautiously on the [T]urn ..but with the flush draws....
Maybe Pot-Betting the Flop and Shoving the Turn would work better but I suspect not.

It's a 3bet pot where we have TP/TK against a suspiciously weak player. If anything could be done differently, maybe raise a bit bigger preflop, bet a bit bigger on flop, and shoveadoodle PSB turn with fist pumps and free shots all around.

Then reload when your opponent shows up with 93 off suite.

Where did "suspiciously weak player" come from?

Stack size is a pretty big tell here IMO. Regardless, take that part out and the play is still fine with a bit bigger bets.

As a general sizing aid, if I plan on going three streets then I bet around 1/10 of the remaining stacks on the flop. If I plan on going two streets I bet around 1/4 remaining stacks on the flop. Choosing something in between often leaves us with awkward stacks.

Case in point, if you had more behind here you could choose a size for which villain might convince himself that he can bluff 9x and have fold equity. With this sizing, and remaining stack, he probably doesn't expect fold equity.

Given how dry the flop is the following sizing seems ok:
Flop bet 0.18 into 0.46
Turn bet 0.40 into .82
River bet 1.22 into 1.62

Bet sizing can drastically alter how a hand plays out, and ppl often down-play this skill.

Do you always plan to get all your chips in then?

Originally Posted by Timlagor

Do you always plan to get all your chips in then?

I don't know if I so much plan to get all my chips in, but I plan to use sizing such that I could get all my chips in if I had a value hand or a bluff.

For example, if you don't choose good sizing you could end up with like 1/3rd pot on the river. So this size isn't great to bluff shove, so now you're stuck in a spot where you mostly only have value hands.

The goal is good/consistent sizing whether you have bluffs or value hands.