[5NL] T8o...Line check against agg villain.

Villain is 35/28/7 over 161 hands. Cbet 100%, 17/17.

Villain played 36% of hands from CO. He is pretty agg, likes to raise and bet big, usually around pot size.

Had seen him slow down with a NFD, A3s, bet/chk/chk. He didn't usually continue bluffs, seen him cbet with air and shut down even on good turn cards to continue bluffing at.

Villain raised 73o in CO, raised donk on flop with a pair of 3's and then 4bet, he was deepstacked as well, ~300bb. Shoved the turn hitting 2P.

Villain had called with GSSD on flop, J9o, raised on turn and called a 3bet shove.

PokerStars - $0.05 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

UTG: $12.50
MP: $6.12
CO: $13.45
BTN: $3.20
SB: $15.19
Hero (BB): $12.50

SB posts SB $0.02, Hero posts BB $0.05

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.07) Hero has T 8

fold, fold, CO raises to $0.15, BTN calls $0.15, SB calls $0.13, Hero calls $0.10

Flop: ($0.60, 4 players) 9 A 7
SB checks, Hero checks, CO bets $0.45, fold, fold, Hero calls $0.45

Turn: ($1.50, 2 players) 6
Hero checks, CO bets $1.25, Hero calls $1.25

River: ($4.00, 2 players) 6
Hero checks, CO checks

I am calling pre because I am getting 5-1 and T8o isn't a hand I am going to get myself into trouble with very often.

I obviously know he is betting this flop 100% of the time so there is no way I am putting him on a flopped flush and I think I am gonna get paid off if I hit my straight if he has like the Ks or Qs because he has shown he will stack off with pretty bad draws. I also think if he has a set/2P maybe even AK he isn't gonna fold.

Turn card is perfect, I think it's probably better if I check and let him continue betting. At this point, I wasn't sure whether I should c/r or just call and then try to get it in on the river (providing river is no spade and board doesn't pair) Looking at hand now, I probably should have c/r here as I doubt he is folding 2P+ or any of his big spade draws as I stated earlier.

I don't like the river card. If he had a set, I am now beat. I wasn't sure what I would do if I bet and he raised (which he is capable of) so decided I would check and see if he bet and then make a decision.

Thoughts?

He cbets 100% (although I'd assume less in this spot), you have to be assuming that his range is pretty wide so much so that you aren't scared of sets, nothing else that happens leads you to believe that he has a set at any point. If you are going to play a hand like T8o and hit a straight and not be attempting to get your money in when there's nothing to scare you then you need to fold pre or otf.

Although saying all this I think it's a fold otf, you only really have 6 outs, even if he doesn't have the FD, that aren't going to scare you out of losing money as he will clearly bet a lot and a lot of cards scare you so much you don't put any money in the pot when you do hit.

Originally Posted by ImSavy

He cbets 100% (although I'd assume less in this spot), you have to be assuming that his range is pretty wide so much so that you aren't scared of sets, nothing else that happens leads you to believe that he has a set at any point. If you are going to play a hand like T8o and hit a straight and not be attempting to get your money in when there's nothing to scare you then you need to fold pre or otf.

Although saying all this I think it's a fold otf, you only really have 6 outs, even if he doesn't have the FD, that aren't going to scare you out of losing money as he will clearly bet a lot and a lot of cards scare you so much you don't put any money in the pot when you do hit.

I did say I planned to get the money in on a non spade and no board pairing card on river, I also said I feel like I should have c/r on the turn.

Don't play such scared money. I'm sorry to say but this is very fishy play on your part. You have to either raise the turn or bet the river. There's no shame in bet/folding the river when you know you will only get raised by hands that beat you.

Originally Posted by jackvance

Don't play such scared money. I'm sorry to say but this is very fishy play on your part. You have to either raise the turn or bet the river. There's no shame in bet/folding the river when you know you will only get raised by hands that beat you.

OK thanks. What hands do you expect villain to call with that I beat if I bet river?

Completely agree that I should have c/r the turn.

I think a c/r OTF would be appropriate here. A good %-age of the value from big draws is when the semi-bluff gets Villain to fold. So if Villain isn't folding to a c/r OTF, then a c/r is a bad play, otherwise go for it.

Having called OTF with a draw against a serial C-bettor, you are almost always leading OTT here. It's like a delayed flop raise. I say almost always, because Hero's weak showdown value hands (bluff catchers) can probably be better played as c/c OTT. Of course, Hero shouldn't be pushing the betting when a scare card comes, but Villain's range is so wide that there is no way to narrow down which cards are scarier than others.

Originally Posted by jackvance

Don't play such scared money. I'm sorry to say but this is very fishy play on your part. You have to either raise the turn or bet the river. There's no shame in bet/folding the river when you know you will only get raised by hands that beat you.

Raising the turn on this board, with this hand, to a double barrel is way over-playing this hand. We expect to get action with a straight when we're repping a flush?

I would fold flop, we have some crappy reverse implied odds with this hand.

Originally Posted by griffey24

Raising the turn on this board, with this hand, to a double barrel is way over-playing this hand. We expect to get action with a straight when we're repping a flush?

I have to disagree with you there. Our hand has the same relative value as a baby flush - not entirely because of only one spade blocker rather than two, but close enough. Also I'd expect villain to have mainly Ax or a Ks/Qs-type hand, which he's probably not gonna lay down to a raise.

i'd probably fold preflop despite the good odds. also fold flop (straight draw no good on this board, flush draw no good either)

as played yeah i call turn and check river.