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JJ on nasty board

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  1. #1

    Default JJ on nasty board

    10/25 HK dollar 9-handed game(10/25 SB/BB 500-5K buyin). Our effective stack is about 2.5k. Semi-loose UTG 1 limps,i raises to $150 with from MP, BT( a young semi-tight guy) calls. I saw BT bluff occasionally in small pots and turn some showdown value hands into bluff. UTG 1 is very passive with weak cards.
    stacks:
    UTG 1: 2.4k
    hero: 3k
    BT: 2.3k
    flop(450): UTG1 checks, hero bets $250, BT calls, UTG1 calls
    turn(1200): UTG 1 checks, hero checks,BT bets $500, UTG1 folds, hero calls or folds?? Is there any merit betting on this turn?
    Last edited by pokerfan; 07-24-2011 at 01:38 PM.
  2. #2
    Why such a small flop bet? I would bet much closer to pot on this drawy flop to get value from draws, TT/99, 8x, gutshots...

    Vs 2 opps and with a turn card that hits their ranges pretty hard I think I c/f with the 3rd best one-card flush draw.
  3. #3
    betting turn seems a ton better than calling, but I'd still just fold.
  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by eugmac View Post
    Why such a small flop bet? I would bet much closer to pot on this drawy flop to get value from draws, TT/99, 8x, gutshots...
    Fnord told me to underbet on these heavy drawy flops Equity wise,I like underbet on the flop and then big bet on any safe turn cards.
  5. #5
    I think I would bet/fold something like $300
    Playing big pots at small stakes.
  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by baudib View Post
    I think I would bet/fold something like $300
    I like this. Do u still bet on the turn without holding . Actually, i had two black jacks
  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by pokerfan View Post
    Fnord told me to underbet on these heavy drawy flops Equity wise,I like underbet on the flop and then big bet on any safe turn cards.
    This seems to go against a lot of stuff I thought I knew, 'cause I bet smaller often (for value or with air) on drier flops and generally moar on wetter flops. So I'm curious to know the thinking behind the underbet here.
  8. #8
    If I have two red aces on the button and get 3 limp-callers and get a JT9 all-black flop I'd check it back a lot.


    Quote Originally Posted by pokerfan View Post
    I like this. Do u still bet on the turn without holding . Actually, i had two black jacks

    I'd probably give up, maybe call a small river bet if it checks through and the board doesn't get worse.
    Playing big pots at small stakes.
  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by baudib View Post
    If I have two red aces on the button and get 3 limp-callers and get a JT9 all-black flop I'd check it back a lot.
    I don't see your point here, how is it applicable to this situation? The above is obv an ugly spot for AA 4-ways, but even with two black Js in OP it's a clear value bet don't you think?
  10. #10
    It's probably not applicable but I believe it is in line with what pf is saying about keeping pots smaller on wet boards and waiting to see a brick turn to commit.

    In the hand in the OP, the flop is not quite as bad for our precise hand, although it's not great for our range.
    Playing big pots at small stakes.
  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by eugmac View Post
    This seems to go against a lot of stuff I thought I knew, 'cause I bet smaller often (for value or with air) on drier flops and generally moar on wetter flops. So I'm curious to know the thinking behind the underbet here.
    2-3 players to the flop, its certainly is a mistake in that it gives too much information.

    When 4+ players go to the flop, particularly bad ones (less of a concern about hand reading) it's quite common to get into spots where a bigger bet would commit you, but giving a free card would be a disaster.

    Since we can rule out checking and betting a fair % of the pot, under-betting starts to make sense.

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