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Randomness thread, part two.

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  1. #18676
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    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    Good posts. I think I now understand why the "she says she's attracted to one thing but then does something else" thing exists. Back when I had no clue what I was doing, my explanation was that women were lying because of the cultural stigma of sluts or when I was particularly hurt I thought they were just stupid and not analytical about themselves. But your explanation gives a different possibility: they ARE attracted to the things they say they are even though sometimes they are attracted to something else.

    Men are constants. We're typically attracted to the same type of thing, so it's harder to see that women could be attracted to two opposing things at different times. Additionally, the word "attraction", to men, is sexual. We tend to think of women we are personally and intellectually attracted to as also being sexually attractive. But to women, "attraction" doesn't have to include sex. So when a chick says she's attracted to the typical "nice guy", she's telling the truth but she doesn't equate attraction with sex the way men do.

    Combine this with the theory of dilemma in what females are attracted to, and I think it makes sense why so many men have experienced the situation where women say one thing about attraction but then do another.
    In game parlance, we typically refer to attraction as wanting to have sex with someone as a matter of keeping the semantics straight, but your point is obviously well-taken. Women are attracted to beta characteristics in the sense that it makes them more comfortable and gives them emotional and financial security, but it does not make them want to have sex, etc.

    The beta is something that most men have at least somewhat under control because of the conditioning since birth that we talked about earlier, and that's why it's the alpha that needs rehabilitation the majority of the time. However, there are cases where the alpha is too high and the beta is too low to "get the girl" because she doesn't feel secure enough to commit to you in the traditional ways.
  2. #18677
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    I'm going to touch on the alpha behaviors and beta behaviors and how to do them correctly. I'll start with the alpha and explain the difference between good alpha and bad alpha, how testing works, etc.

    Alpha behaviors generally show dominance in the sense that you are worth more than the woman you're dealing with. Good alpha does this from a position of strength, and bad alpha does this from a position of weakness. Good alpha builds attraction, and bad alpha tears it down.

    Generally speaking, the alpha behaviors are what build attraction in the sexual sense because they signal good genes. However, because these are behaviors, they can be learned. Along these lines, women have a defense mechanism to try to make sure that the alpha signals they're getting aren't bullshit, and we call that shit testing (or fitness testing). This is usually just some kind of challenge or bitchy type of comment or behavior from a chick to gauge your response. You can look up common shit tests and common tactics for handling them on your own because I don't want this to get too long, but the basic idea is to put your alpha behavior under stress to see if you break.

    A lot of good alpha behavior is having confidence, being pre-selected (ie: other females find you attractive/ see this Oklahoma State University study for details), posture and masculinity in general.

    In comparison, bad alpha is generally acting from an obvious context of insecurity. If a chick gives you a little shit, and you get mad and yell at her, that's aggressive behavior, but it's insecure behavior. That's the kind of thing in general that makes up bad alpha.

    When you present alpha and a chick starts to find you attractive, she'll test you in an effort to stress your alpha behavior to see if it changes. If you act butthurt or that you're not able to handle whatever ridiculous bitchy thing she says, then you're showing insecurity. When you pass that test of your alpha behavior, then she'll be even more attracted to you because it's yet another display of the right kind of alpha.

    The biggest misconception about alpha behavior as regards game is this idea that all alpha behavior is good alpha behavior. I'll get around to the beta side of the coin, how they work together and what ratios to use of each conceptually when I get some time.
    Last edited by spoonitnow; 07-24-2015 at 12:07 AM.
  3. #18678
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    One more:

  4. #18679
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    Research indicates that the endorsement of sexist ideology is linked to higher subjective wellbeing for both men and women. We examine gender differences in the rationalisations which drive this effect in an egalitarian nation (New Zealand). Results from a nationally representative sample (N = 6,100) indicated that the endorsement of Benevolent Sexism (BS) predicted life satisfaction through different mechanisms for men and women. For men, BS was directly associated with life satisfaction. For women, the palliative effect of BS was indirect and occurred because BS-ideology positioning women as deserving of men’s adoration and protection was linked to general perceptions of gender relations as fair and equitable, which in turn predicted greater levels of life satisfaction.
    - University of Auckland
  5. #18680
    spoon do you have any recommended reading/watching on this stuff? im not so much interested in demonstrations of why the theory exists, but more like categorizations and descriptions of what the theory says.
  6. #18681
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    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    spoon do you have any recommended reading/watching on this stuff? im not so much interested in demonstrations of why the theory exists, but more like categorizations and descriptions of what the theory says.
    The book I recommend people read on this stuff from the man's perspective is also the best book on what's considered relationship game, "Married Man Sex Life" by Athol Kay. It breaks down the basic concepts and the effects that alpha and beta behavior have based on simple game theory, and it's a really good logic-based approach in general. It's also super politically-neutral and as close as PG and PC as you can get with this stuff, which is interesting considering that his wife lost a pretty significant job because of his blog on the subject.

    If you're looking for something that's much more science-based, then this is a good example of why Chateau Heartiste is the best for it: https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2012...xist-is-happy/. However, it's also heavy on some racial topics that, while presented in a logical manner, won't be everyone's cup of tea.
    Last edited by spoonitnow; 07-25-2015 at 08:46 PM.
  7. #18682
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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWZAL64E0DI#t=33m19s

    LOL, he talks about cultural transmission. Behavior transmitted intra or inter-generationally. He talks about tool making and he even says that girls learn better than boys because the boys don't pay attention. It's my and aubrey's entire argument. Girls learn by culture, boys maybe not.
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  8. #18683
    That would suggest that girls could be better at things boys are "good at".
  9. #18684
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    With all other things equal, yeah. But I doubt they are.
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  10. #18685
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    Quote Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla View Post
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWZAL64E0DI#t=33m19s

    LOL, he talks about cultural transmission. Behavior transmitted intra or inter-generationally. He talks about tool making and he even says that girls learn better than boys because the boys don't pay attention. It's my and aubrey's entire argument. Girls learn by culture, boys maybe not.
    This is very much related to how boys are being doped up on pills ala ADHD so that they'll behave like girls in the classroom (in the sense of sitting still and paying attention) by a female-dominated elementary and middle school system.

    Boys and girls learn differently. There's a very strong argument for having all-boys and all-girls classes up to a certain age because of this (with opportunities to socialize with the opposite sex).
  11. #18686
    How about having no classes?
  12. #18687
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    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    How about having no classes?
    It depends what your goals are. For an individual who wants to maximize the chances of reasonable success, being home schooled up to an age and then teaching yourself could be best.

    For maintaining peace for society as a whole, I think some form of systematic education (aka: brainwashing) should be performed.

    I think overall, I'm in favor of a public school system. The majority of kids are dumb with dumb parents who need their kids to have a cheap babysitter (ie: public school) so that they can go work their dumb jobs for their dumb minimum wage and keep the economy going on that bottom level of the totem pole.
  13. #18688
    Quote Originally Posted by spoonitnow View Post
    It depends what your goals are. For an individual who wants to maximize the chances of reasonable success, being home schooled up to an age and then teaching yourself could be best.

    For maintaining peace for society as a whole, I think some form of systematic education (aka: brainwashing) should be performed.

    I think overall, I'm in favor of a public school system. The majority of kids are dumb with dumb parents who need their kids to have a cheap babysitter (ie: public school) so that they can go work their dumb jobs for their dumb minimum wage and keep the economy going on that bottom level of the totem pole.
    The feminist imposition on boys that you don't like exists because of public education. The nature of a good that is administrated by agents of the government is social justice. I don't think there's any way around this. The government has an inescapable prerogative to equivocate.

    That aside, my guess for how a totally private education system would work after about a hundred years of operation is that higher institutions with classes would possibly still exist, but the vast majority of everything else would operate like a gym. The youngest ages would have daycare/classes but as people got older it would become subscription based, where they would attend and conduct their own research with guidance from tutors. They would enroll in programs and complete exams with express purpose of designating a skill recognized by industry. Some would probably include lecture or group work, but most would be self-study. Many would attend the library gym for their own accord, but probably most would come by contract from employers. The employment system would probably be overhauled to back to "normal" where people got jobs before they got educations. Teens would join companies in apprenticeships and their education would revolve around what the company most values them to know and the company would pay for it. Pretty much how it used to be.

    This system would be maybe like a 100x cheaper, take 100x less time, and would eliminate the teenage subculture and lifelong entitlement self-destructive unproductive lethargic negativism that is pounded into each and every one of us by the k-12 experience.
  14. #18689
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    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    The feminist imposition on boys that you don't like exists because of public education. The nature of a good that is administrated by agents of the government is social justice. I don't think there's any way around this. The government has an inescapable prerogative to equivocate.
    It also exists for a number of other reasons. With that having been said, the egalitarian tendencies are just going to get worse and worse over time, and there's not much to practically do about it at this point.

  15. #18690
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    I'm actually start to get a little man-anoid about a Clinton presidency. It seems like it could foster a perfect storm of socialism and radical feminism. Obviously there was going to be a female president eventually (which I'm a million percent fine with) and it was most likely going to be a democrat the first time, it's just unfortunate timing to embolden radical feminists.
  16. #18691
    Well good news. Clinton won't be winning the WH.
  17. #18692
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renton View Post
    I'm actually start to get a little man-anoid about a Clinton presidency. It seems like it could foster a perfect storm of socialism and radical feminism. Obviously there was going to be a female president eventually (which I'm a million percent fine with) and it was most likely going to be a democrat the first time, it's just unfortunate timing to embolden radical feminists.
    I'm not sure why everyone has to throw this in. Fuck Hillary Clinton, and fuck any woman who currently has a chance in hell in being President of the United States.
  18. #18693
    Quote Originally Posted by spoonitnow View Post
    It also exists for a number of other reasons. With that having been said, the egalitarian tendencies are just going to get worse and worse over time, and there's not much to practically do about it at this point.
    I don't agree. The cult of social justice and false equivocations rides on the back of democratic entitlement. Businesses, communities, and individuals are not entitled to listen to you, but your democratically elected officials are. When the optics are that the primary source of change and the responsibility for change is political, you get one-size-fits-all solutions.

    Not only would the power to do this be greatly restricted in a market, but the desire to do this would as well. It's like how most atheists don't give a fuck what Mormons do as long as they're not imposing their ideas on us. But when we all share the same system of elected officials, we have to care very much what each other is up to.
  19. #18694
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    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    The cult of social justice and false equivocations rides on the back of democratic entitlement.
    To clarify, I think this is exactly why it'll just get worse and that there's nothing to be done about it (up until the point that the system destroys itself and we start over with something else). The lowest common denominator will continue to vote themselves more "equality" over and over again, destroying the middle class and ensuring that the right incentives to not work hard are in place.

    Without getting into an exceptionally long post, if I was a part of the ruling class, this is exactly how I would want things to preserve my power, etc.
    Last edited by spoonitnow; 07-28-2015 at 01:26 PM.
  20. #18695
    My best friend is female. Spoon would fucking love her. Yesterday we were driving back from Bromyard, stuck behind some idiot doing 30 on open country lanes and being indecisive at junctions. Eventually we pass, and my friend says "there's a surprise, it's a fucking woman", while waving her fingers at her. She finds it hard to get on with most women because she sees them as fickle and stupid.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  21. #18696
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    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    My best friend is female. Spoon would fucking love her. Yesterday we were driving back from Bromyard, stuck behind some idiot doing 30 on open country lanes and being indecisive at junctions. Eventually we pass, and my friend says "there's a surprise, it's a fucking woman", while waving her fingers at her. She finds it hard to get on with most women because she sees them as fickle and stupid.
    My chick is the same way.


    @wufwugy - You might get a kick out of this: The Bar is So Very Low
  22. #18697
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    Course the bar is low, I just finished stomping the first part of it.
  23. #18698
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKDS View Post
    Course the bar is low, I just finished stomping the first part of it.
  24. #18699
    Quote Originally Posted by spoonitnow View Post
    My chick is the same way.
    It doesn't surprise me. I know I like to troll the shit out of your sexism, but the truth is that I agree with you more than I let on know about the matter. I think though I'm a lot more forgiving for their flaws. I certainly prefer the company of women than men, but my female friends are probably not the kind of women that would get on your nerves.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  25. #18700
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    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    It doesn't surprise me. I know I like to troll the shit out of your sexism, but the truth is that I agree with you more than I let on know about the matter. I think though I'm a lot more forgiving for their flaws. I certainly prefer the company of women than men, but my female friends are probably not the kind of women that would get on your nerves.
    All women are like that. The only question is the degree.
  26. #18701
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    Bullying behaviors are linked to higher self-esteem, social status, and a lower rate of depression, according to a new provocative study. Researchers at Simon Fraser University observed a group of high school students finding that bullies had the highest self esteem, greatest social status, and were less likely to be depressed, as reported by National Post.

    “Humans tend to try to establish a rank hierarchy,” Jennifer Wong, a criminology professor who led the study, told the Post. “When you’re in high school, it’s a very limited arena in which you can establish your rank, and climbing the social ladder to be on top is one of the main ways … Bullying is a tool you can use to get there.”

    Wong notes that many anti-bullying initiatives try to change the behavior of bullies, but often don’t work. This is likely because behavior is hard-wired and not learned, she says. Experts suggest that schools might expand competitive, supervised activities as an alternative outlet to channel dominating behavior.
    The study was performed by Simon Fraser University (British Columbia).

    Indeed, fascinating research involving another Canadian expert offers some support for that idea. A pilot project at an Arizona school sought to steer students identified as bullies into high-status “jobs” — like being the school’s front-door greeters — to focus their aggression on something less harmful.

    Bullying fell “dramatically” in its wake, says Tony Volk, a Brock University psychologist who helped pioneer the genetic theory of bullying and took part in an upcoming study of the Arizona project.

    Meanwhile, separate research Volk is working on offers more evidence bolstering the concept: the bullies among 178 teenagers surveyed by the professor and his colleagues got more sex than everyone else.
    This is extremely interesting stuff.

    @wufwugy, Social hierarchy tie-in: Extroverts (alpha and gamma types) tend to try to bully the most as a method to move up the social ladder. Alphas are able to bully successfully because they have a higher social status, and gammas tend to bully unsuccessfully [unless they are in large groups] because of their lack thereof (see SJWs). Note gammas in a large group become localized alphas because of their position in the localized social structure, but they won't leave their bubble because they realize this.

    Introverts (sigma and omega types) tend to bully the least. Sigmas can successfully bully, though they tend to need a whole lot of motivation to do so (imagine standing up for a little brother or having a specific, strategic purpose). Omegas cannot bully because they do not have the social power to do so; their lashing out in anger is done from a position of powerlessness.

    Overall:

    - You need higher social status to bully successfully.
    - Extroversion is correlated to higher propensity to leverage social status for aggression.
    Last edited by spoonitnow; 07-29-2015 at 10:38 AM.
  27. #18702
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  28. #18703
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    Quote Originally Posted by oskar View Post
    One of the first things I do every morning is read the day's Dilbert while I'm sitting on the toilet.
  29. #18704
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    SeaWorld set a bunch of whales loose this morning after pressure from PETA reports that they were being underfed.

    Spoiler:
  30. #18705
    Tsunami alert across the entire Pacific.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  31. #18706
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    Remember that documentary about the tortured lives of seaworld whales?

    Mmm good times
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  32. #18707
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    I really just needed to share this with someone:

  33. #18708
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renton View Post
    I'm actually start to get a little man-anoid about a Clinton presidency. It seems like it could foster a perfect storm of socialism and radical feminism. Obviously there was going to be a female president eventually (which I'm a million percent fine with) and it was most likely going to be a democrat the first time, it's just unfortunate timing to embolden radical feminists.
  34. #18709
    Quote Originally Posted by spoonitnow View Post
    I really just needed to share this with someone:

    Isn't that the girl who ate a bloody tampon?
    Free your mind and your ass will follow.
  35. #18710
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    Quote Originally Posted by aubreymcfate View Post
    Isn't that the girl who ate a bloody tampon?
    It wouldn't surprise me. She has the attention whore look.

    That is, she appears to be female.
  36. #18711
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    Condom up the sniffer'll clean the tubes out. Might use it the next time I'm stuffed up.
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  37. #18712
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    "Japan" "Got the Yanks to do it for us."

    Did ya, now?
    Last edited by a500lbgorilla; 07-31-2015 at 01:11 PM.
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  38. #18713
    Quote Originally Posted by spoonitnow View Post
    It wouldn't surprise me. She has the attention whore look.

    That is, she appears to be female.
    https://www.youtube.com/user/shoenice22

    https://www.youtube.com/user/skippy62able

    ^^ Two of YouTube's biggest attention whores. Their videos make eating a bloody tampon look demure.

    Not knocking it though, I love those channels. This is hilarious.
    Free your mind and your ass will follow.
  39. #18714
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    Those are dudes though
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  40. #18715
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    Yeah dudes don't count.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  41. #18716
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    If you really wanna get underneath his point. ask about Law number 6 of the 48.

    cheat code edit: http://48laws-of-power.blogspot.com/...-all-cost.html
    Last edited by a500lbgorilla; 08-01-2015 at 06:57 PM.
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  42. #18717
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  43. #18718
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    Not to step on other threads, Jkids, what's law school like?
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  44. #18719
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    One more for the men and women are equal argument: Women’s immune system genes operate differently from men’s - Stanford
  45. #18720
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    Quote Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla View Post
    Not to step on other threads, Jkids, what's law school like?
    During orientation, every student received a 12 page pdf. The message was to be forwarded to your friends and family, to explain to them how law school was going to fuck you up.

    I'm done now, and was not disappointed.
  46. #18721
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKDS View Post
    During orientation, every student received a 12 page pdf. The message was to be forwarded to your friends and family, to explain to them how law school was going to fuck you up.

    I'm done now, and was not disappointed.
    Really? What's in there?

    Also.

    umm.. sorry, I guess? But congratulations, too?
  47. #18722
    I swear, several pages back, spoon had mentioned that he dated a transgender woman (biological man) in an aside and it went completely unnoticed. Did I imagine this? Spoon? Details?
  48. #18723
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    Why even waste the effort on confirming such obvious truths?

    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...4959781500076X
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  49. #18724
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  50. #18725
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    New form of welfare in California where you get paid for not committing murder: Business Insider
  51. #18726
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  52. #18727
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    and for all of those who have been living under a rock on the dark side of the moon: Rick and Morty season 2 is two episodes in already:

    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  53. #18728
    Quote Originally Posted by spoonitnow View Post
    New form of welfare in California where you get paid for not committing murder: Business Insider
    Not the worst thing in the world. Sounds like the standards might be somewhat rigorous. If we're not going towards a market and instead will have welfare no matter what, it needs to account for necessary incentives and merits.
  54. #18729
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    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    Not the worst thing in the world. Sounds like the standards might be somewhat rigorous. If we're not going towards a market and instead will have welfare no matter what, it needs to account for necessary incentives and merits.
    I want my welfare for not murdering people.
  55. #18730
    Quote Originally Posted by spoonitnow View Post
    I want my welfare for not murdering people.
    The headline is different than the article content. Identifying problem factors and helping them to not be problem factors is not a bad idea.
  56. #18731
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    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    The headline is different than the article content. Identifying problem factors and helping them to not be problem factors is not a bad idea.
    The government shouldn't steal from person A to bribe person B into not killing person C. Like where does it stop? Other people's money is going to run out eventually.
  57. #18732
    Quote Originally Posted by spoonitnow View Post
    The government shouldn't steal from person A to bribe person B into not killing person C. Like where does it stop? Other people's money is going to run out eventually.
    Of course the government shouldn't. The article you linked doesn't detail benefits for not killing but benefits for improvement. The problem of government intervention doesn't just start with welfare but with creating the destitute conditions that "need" welfare in the first place. However, if the government is to intervene, it is better to pay attention to incentives. The title of the article makes it sound like people are being paid to not kill, but it seems the details show it is not that bad.
  58. #18733
    that said i'll move to texas a hundred times before i move to fucking california. even with all the churches.

    the proof is in the pudding. the regions the left has controlled for a long time are doing way worse than the regions the right has.
  59. #18734
    Tell a stupid Englishman why Cali is so bad. Looks great from here, what with all the weed.

    Personally I'd sooner go to North Korea than Texas, the people are nicer.

    (obviously I'm talking out of my arse here in case any of you were considering taking me seriously)
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  60. #18735
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    I've been all around the US and to a bit of Mexico and Canada. People are complicated, sure, but there are smiles and friendly stories all over the world.

    Sure, it's no utopia anywhere you go, but life is a work in progress, and there's plenty of fun to be had as we figure it all out.

    Besides, if OngBonga is there, it's already a vast improvement over the other places where there are no OngBongs, amirit?
  61. #18736
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    That's some real Pap smear level shit right there.
  62. #18737
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    mmm... that's the best kind.

    @spoony: Are you so jaded that any hint of non-cynicical analysis of the world sounds like ignorance to you?

    Smile, bro. There's nothing in optimism that is a threat to you or anyone.
  63. #18738
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Tell a stupid Englishman why Cali is so bad. Looks great from here, what with all the weed.

    Personally I'd sooner go to North Korea than Texas, the people are nicer.

    (obviously I'm talking out of my arse here in case any of you were considering taking me seriously)
    The cost of living is enough to keep many out. It's a product of collectivist and special interest policies. I'd like to avoid places like Seattle as much as I can. Hoards of dumb regulations that keep costs high, infrastructure dirty, people poor, and crime high.

    Everybody's moving to Texas, and it ain't because of religion or the weather. Its because of mostly non-existent regulations (in housing) that keep costs low and production high. They say Texas changes you. I suspect the cult of personal responsibility is high.
  64. #18739
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey View Post
    mmm... that's the best kind.

    @spoony: Are you so jaded that any hint of non-cynicical analysis of the world sounds like ignorance to you?

    Smile, bro. There's nothing in optimism that is a threat to you or anyone.
    There's nothing feminine that's a threat to me.
  65. #18740
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    Quote Originally Posted by spoonitnow View Post
    There's nothing feminine that's a threat to me.
    Umm. What?

    Are you saying optimism is feminine?

    ***
    If a man does a thing, that thing is by definition a manly thing to do.
    If a woman does a thing, that thing is by definition a womanly thing to do.
    Any overlap is what it is.


    Discuss.
  66. #18741
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey View Post
    If a man does a thing, that thing is by definition a manly thing to do.
    If a woman does a thing, that thing is by definition a womanly thing to do.
    Nope. Not even close. The lack of logic in what you just said is overwhelming considering your background.
  67. #18742
    context is king. he's technically right, something can't do something unless it's a that-something-thingy to do, but when we talk about descriptions of distinct traits of things, we're dealing with generalities meant to distinguish, so then you can say there are lots of things that something does that isnt a something-thingy thing to do.

    i get the award for silliest sentence.
  68. #18743
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    Quote Originally Posted by spoonitnow View Post
    Nope. Not even close. The lack of logic in what you just said is overwhelming considering your background.
    There was nothing logical about what I said. I wasn't making a syllogism; I was proposing definitions.

    What's up with the non-sequitur?

    Do you equate logic to accuracy? This is a perfectly logical series of sentences:
    All cats have 3 legs.
    All furry things are cats.
    Therefore all furry things have 3 legs.

    The conclusion follows from the axioms.
    The fact that the axioms are not a reflection of reality is not within the field of logic.
    The accuracy of the axioms is beyond the ability of logic to demonstrate. Logic can only demonstrate that the axioms are self-consistent.

    ***
    I'm still curious about what you mean by this:
    "There's nothing feminine that's a threat to me."

    Are you saying that optimism is feminine? That I am?

    I assure you that I have never intended any threat to you. If you wanna call me a girl, well, my penis assures me that I'm not. It's kind of frat-boy of you to go on and on about the emasculation of men and then to emasculate a man who disagrees with you.
  69. #18744
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    Furthermore, it is perfectly within my field to observe a thing and plainly state what I see.

    If I observe an ant do a thing, that is a thing that ants do. That's an "antly thing."
    That's all I'm saying.
    If a man does a thing, that is a thing men do, i.e. a manly thing.
    If a woman do a thing, that is a thing women do, i.e. a womanly thing.

    I mean if you don't hold these definitions, then it's no wonder we never agree on anything you say on the topic.
  70. #18745
    I would argue that a "manly" thing to do is something typcial of a man, not something that any man anywhere might do. I mean if I get up in the night for a piss, I tend to sit down because when I'm tired I'm more likely to piss all over the seat. Sitting for a piss is not something I would call "manly", even though I do it sometimes, and I'm most certainly not going to be the only man. Furthermore, if I decided to put some lipstick on, I'd feel like a right fairy, but some men do it all the time. Lipstick is not "manly".

    That said, the idea that optimism is feminine is funny. I'm sure that's probably a misinterpretation.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  71. #18746
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    Everybody's moving to Texas, and it ain't because of religion or the weather. Its because of mostly non-existent regulations (in housing) that keep costs low and production high. They say Texas changes you. I suspect the cult of personal responsibility is high.
    Isn't the religious fundamentalism and the outright bigotry kind of off putting?
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  72. #18747
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    Certainly the notion of wearing lipstick is culturally sensitive. Who's to say when powdered faces and cherry-red lipstick will come back into fashion for men?

    Standing to piss probably is less cultural, since the geometry of having a flexible omni-directional pee aiming tube right in arm's reach is strictly male. I mean, women can stand and aim, but it's a bit more of a gymnastic trick than a man firmly planting his feet akimbo.

    I guess what makes this a dumb conversation is that those low frequency male traits are just as much a part of male-ness as the most common traits. There are tons of low-frequency traits form which each person manifests only a few of. They are still a part of each person.

    At any rate, if we decide to ignore certain traits over others, that's fine. Where do we draw the line? One standard deviation? Two? Honestly, I don't care. Knowing what frequency a trait occurs is a vastly interesting conversation.

    Compiling those traits by their most frequent occurrences to define "normal" seems like a misguided move.

    The complexity of any single person means that no one falls right on top of the bell curve for all the possible traits. When you look close enough, we're all unique in biochemistry. The molecules are the same, but the arrangements are subtly different.
  73. #18748
    At any rate, if we decide to ignore certain traits over others, that's fine. Where do we draw the line?
    I guess this is one of the problems with approaching things from a scientific point of view. You need to draw a line and have all parties agree on it!

    I don't have a line. Well, I do, but it's flexible. I have my own ideas, based largely on my culture, of what masculine and feminine behaviour are. I don't have a problem with someone drawing the line in a different place. That's what makes different folk interesting... their different cultures and how it manifests into their behaviour.

    To say that "a man does this, therefore it is manly" is as silly as saying something artificial is actually natural because humans are natural, so anything humans make is natural. It's the same kind of pedantry. "Manly" behaviour is typical male behaviour in any given culture. Since cultures differ from region to region, it's no surprise that definitions of "manly" vary so much.
    Last edited by OngBonga; 08-04-2015 at 07:00 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  74. #18749
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    The core of masculinity and femininity do not change from culture to culture for the most part.

    Women wear makeup to appear more feminine and simulate the biological effects of ovulation.
  75. #18750
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Isn't the religious fundamentalism and the outright bigotry kind of off putting?
    That's a caricature.

    Christian cultures are not without issues, but they are not anywhere close to the monsters that many have painted them as. Granted, they haven't done themselves favors with a handful of things like marriage and poker. But really there's a ton of "live and let live" in the Christian mindset that hasn't been at the forefront the last decade or so.

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