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This has been bugging me

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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
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    Default This has been bugging me

    I don't have the hh or anything. I wasn't really going to post but this has been bugging me. I'll try my best to re-create it. I'm probably not completely accurate about stack sizes/blinds, but I'm not too far off.

    I'm fairly deep in a tournament. There were about 120 players (out of several thousand) left and I had a slightly above average stack. IIRC the blinds were 500/1000 and I had about 50,000+ chips. Im in the BB with KK. Cutoff minraised and button called. Both had me covered. SB folded. I shoved. Cutoff folded and button called with AJ and obviously hit.

    I realize this might be results oriented, but I keep thinking that I should have just raised (not shoved) and taken it from there. I'm in pretty decent shape chipwise and I felt like I got greedy. Thoughts?
  2. #2
    rpm's Avatar
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    if the BU is calling a shove with hands as weak as AJ then i think we should definitely be shoving KK. though i know very little about ICM or tournament strategy in general
  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by rpm View Post
    if the BU is calling a shove with hands as weak as AJ then i think we should definitely be shoving KK. though i know very little about ICM or tournament strategy in general
    This basically but we probably shouldn't know this. We could know if he is a station or not though so you can probably size your 3b fairly large and go from there. I'd be thrilled to get KK in v AJ at any point in the tournament. ICM doesn't play a very large role until very late in big tournaments since tournaments are top heavy.
  4. #4
    Sykedupp's Avatar
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    treebet wins... You probably shouldnt have shoved, but you did get it in great for lots of chips so dont be upset about the RESULT, just the play.

    Proper 3bet would have been to about 7k if you have no reads, or maybe 9kish if you know he's a station. If the flop comes down A high after that, you can either bet/fold the flop or check back (assuming you're IP), calling 1 street on either the turn or river but generally not calling both streets.
    Quote Originally Posted by soupie
    That is the beauty of poker, it doesnt matter how they play, you can always devise the perfect defense and counterpunch hard.
  5. #5
    dont be results oriented op... this is exactly what you want!
  6. #6
    Unless you have specific reads that CO or BTN are very spewy then you should not shove.
    With 50BB deep shoving here is a bit extreme, assuming CO opens relatively wide he will fold most of the range that you have beat for such an overbet, since there is an overcaller and you are going to be OOP you should raise to 8-9K and take it from there


  7. #7

    Default No shove

    IMHO, shoving is not the correct move, results or no results... the risk is just not worth the gain in a late tournament settting... the enemy is the bust out... sure kings play really well OVER TIME in full ring or tournies, but in FR you can recover easily with a reload.. no such option is available in tournies.. i agree with some of earlier posters who said to flat call the bettor pre, and then take it from there... if no ace falls on flop, you can either bet for value or shove, knowing that Ax will fold the vast majority of the time....
    Dont gamble your tournament life when you dont have to... the two times to shove here pre are (a) you are short stacked, (b) you KNOW the AJ holder will fold... and realistically, how often is your read of KNOWING he will fold accurate? probably not often enough to risk the shove
    ~Slip
  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Slip View Post
    IMHO, shoving is not the correct move, results or no results... the risk is just not worth the gain in a late tournament settting... the enemy is the bust out... sure kings play really well OVER TIME in full ring or tournies, but in FR you can recover easily with a reload.. no such option is available in tournies.. i agree with some of earlier posters who said to flat call the bettor pre, and then take it from there... if no ace falls on flop, you can either bet for value or shove, knowing that Ax will fold the vast majority of the time....
    Dont gamble your tournament life when you dont have to... the two times to shove here pre are (a) you are short stacked, (b) you KNOW the AJ holder will fold... and realistically, how often is your read of KNOWING he will fold accurate? probably not often enough to risk the shove
    ~Slip
    Read this and do the opposite.
    Playing big pots at small stakes.
  9. #9
    ^ <3 my thoughts too just to lazy to post.
  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by baudib View Post
    Read this and do the opposite.
  11. #11
    with the blinds 500/1000, 5x big blind would be my bet, if he calls , u got security if a A hits the flop.

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