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Originally Posted by Banana
You're presenting this as if it's outrageous. It's not. Attractive product placement has been a thing for a LOOOOOOONG time.
Remember the ninja turtles movie, when they had pizza delivered to their sewer lair? The delivery guy had on a ridiculous red and blue uniform plastered with Domino's pizza logos. When the turtles opened the pizza bog, the lid moved right into the camera with the "Domino's" logo filling up 3/4 of the frame.
All of that imagery and camera work was done on purpose, paid for by Domino's, with the intent of making you want to buy their pizza.
Advertising is not a crime. Just because your video games now have commercials in them is not a good enough reason to demand oppressive nanny-government intervention.
"Attractive product placement"? Did you read anything in the link?
Originally Posted by Banana
ummm, explain to me how it doesn't?
Nah, you explain. You came up with the comparision.
Originally Posted by Banana
Explain to me how it's different than a kid walking through the grocery store, seeing a cereal box that says "badass fuckin ninja figure inside!", and then saying "mom...buy me that box!"
Did the kid need that "badass fuckin ninja figure inside!" in order to get something accomplished? Was the kids progress hampered by lacking that specific item? Was the kid manipulated psychologically in order to get that particular item?
Originally Posted by Banana
It was my understanding that the loot-box problem is different.
This fact is quite apparent.
Originally Posted by Banana
You buy the box, hope you get what you want, but if you don't, you buy another box.
Yes, the psychological manilation needed to get you to spend more. The unboxing experience of these lootboxes is also quite pico bello.
Originally Posted by Banana
Do you remember when happy meals had beanie babies in them for a while? People would go, buy a happy meal, look inside, and if they didn't get the beanie baby they wanted, the got back in line and bought another happy meal.
No, and I assume no one needed those beanie babies in order to accomplish something else much easier than if they didn't have that specific beanie baby.
Originally Posted by Banana
They aren't really that different. Furthermore you should know that this has been happening in the video game industry for-fucking-ever. There was a time when people played video games, but didn't have the internet. So how the hell did people learn that Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, B, A, start would result in beginning the game with 30 lives instead of 3? If you wanted that enhanced experience, you needed to subscribe to Nintendo Fun Club News (which later became Nintendo Power Magazine).
A friend told me that cheat code. Different.
Originally Posted by Banana
Stuck at a difficult part in a game? You can call our Game-Master help line for some insane per-minute charge. No credit card needed, we'll bill your phone line. But you're on the honor system kids when it comes to getting mom and dad's permission [lol]
In my experience, this never happened to me. Different.
Originally Posted by Banana
And it just kept going from there. Want a blue controller instead of the standard gray? Pay us another 29.99. Then they stopped including second controllers with consoles. Want to play with a friend....another $29.99.
You can sell that controller to someone else. Or chew on it. Different.
Originally Posted by Banana
Before HDMI cables there were those Red/Blue/Green HD inputs. No console ever shipped with the correct wires for that though. You got standard A/V cables. Want HD gaming?....another $29.99!!
You could buy these in any store at varying prices. Different.
Originally Posted by Banana
Or even if you didn't, alot of TV's back then only had the simple RF input, which required a different adapter.....for $29.99.
Again, you could buy these in any store at varying prices. You could even borrow one if you were a broke ass. Different.
Originally Posted by Banana
Online subscription based games have been around since the 90's. Wanna play everquest...ok the game is $70 and it doesn't do shit...AT ALL...unless you sign up to pay another $13 bucks a month. Don't like that...well then you just pissed away seventy bucks for a plastic disc ass hole. Enjoy your coaster.
Sure, as long as you advertise being an online subscription service in advance no one has a problem with it.
Originally Posted by Banana
The point is regarding in-game purchases. The upfront money is kind of irrelevant. And some games do cost money upfront.
You missed the point completely but I'm not surprised. You were to busy arguing against your own strawmen.
Originally Posted by Banana
Dude...it's THEIR product. They can structure and sell it however they want. The only exception is if their practices were really predatory and deceptive. And they aren't, at least not compared to anything else marketed to kids these days. So if you find that the game isn't worth the frustration....then don't fucking play it!!
I wonder what you call really predatory and deceptive. I assume it would have to involve this dude:
Originally Posted by Banana
You know google does the exact same thing when it shows you ads based on your browsing history. Advertising to a target market is not a crime.
I was unaware that you paid google $60 to make use of its search features
Originally Posted by Banana
Great, if you like that feature, then voice your opinion with your wallet. Buy games with that feature, and don't buy games without it.
The thing is they never advertise these features. I mean, it's kind of obvious why, but I assume I have to mention this anyway. You only get to know this, particularly if you are the casual gamer they prey on, AFTER you already bought the game "because I like Star Wars". Oh, and let's not go into preorders, that one is for a different day.
Originally Posted by Banana
Final Fantasy X - 14 Million copies sold
Final Fantasy XI - 2 Million copies sold
Final Fantasy XII - 12 Million copies sold
I have no idea. You tell me.
Did it advertise itself as being a SAAS (Subscription Service) upfront or did the players know this AFTER PREORDERING/BUYING THE FUCKING GAME?
Originally Posted by Banana
You guys are probably all young enough that most of your saved game files are on hard-drives now. You probably don't remember memory cards. But if you do, you probably don't remember a time BEFORE memory cards.
Yeah, once upon a time, you could just save your game. That's it.
Then in the late 90's they changed things. Now you had a choice. If you bought a game you could choose to A) Play the beginning of it over and over and over and over and over again. or B) Spend another $15 on a memory card so you can save your progress.
LOL, comparing buying tangible things to microtransactions. The only way this would compare was if buying the memory card implied you paying for a black box, which could contain the memory card, but also some broccolli and cheese, a few tic tacs and a literall polished stone. And then out of every 1000 black boxes, only 50 would contain a memory card. Also, of different sizes because why the hell not. The other 950, 600 would contain raw broccoli and cheese, 250 would contain tic tacs, and 100 would contain polished stones.
Oh, and BTW, River City ransom saves were codes. You had to input a code to get your character back.
Originally Posted by Banana
Extra hardware, HD wires, magazine subscriptions, 900-numbers, memory cards......these were all revenue streams that gaming companies used to have, but don't anymore.
LOL, those that made the games really did benefit from selling those magazines back in the day.
You are making less and less sense, but let's continue.
Originally Posted by Banana
How do you propose they make up the difference?
Should games just cost $150/each now and everything in them be totally free? Is that really what you want?
Cuphead recently launched at $30. No microtransactions, no PVP, no lootboxes, no DLC yet, it's not even a known IP of, shall we say, Star Wars calibre? It's just a solid good game. It sold 1 million copies at full price in 2 weeks.
https://www.pcgamesn.com/cuphead/cuphead-sales-numbers
Originally Posted by Banana
I don't think you know what "strawman" means.?
No, you misrepresent the position/change the argument and then argue against it. Classic strawmanning
Originally Posted by Banana
What exactly would you like to have happen here anyway? Are you really calling for government intervention over what can and can't be in a video game? Cause that is a real slippery fucking slope dude. Eventually there could come a time when games aren't allowed to have guns, show violence, or contain realistic blood, cuz it's all being regulated by your parent-gov't for the 'public good'.
I don't want slot machines in games aimed at 13 year olds. I also do not want PAY TO WIN mechanics in full priced supposedly AAA titles. I think I mentioned these quite a few times in this thread, but I maybe I'm mistaken.
Originally Posted by Banana
You basically want your investment in these games to be capped at whatever the off-the-shelf MSRP is.
No, I don't. I bought every single DLC there was to buy for Mass Effect 2 & 3 for instance. Didn't buy the one DLC 1 had though.
Originally Posted by Banana
You like that, cause its been that way for a long time, and change intimidates you. You are clutching to this white-knight sense of fairness that no one cares about except you. Like...you feel that a persons ability to compete in these games should be driven by their time invested and gaming talent. Now someone with more money than you can buy a winning character and do everything you can do, in a tenth of the time.
I get why that might upset you, but suck it up cupcake.
No you don't, because you keep misrepresenting my position and then arguing against it. And you also keep throwing false equivalencies in there for good measure.
Originally Posted by Banana
but suck it up cupcake.
No, honeybun. This practice has to stop.
Originally Posted by Banana
Sometimes businesses make accommodations for higher-profile, higher-frequency, or higher-paying customers. Just because you have a reservation doesn't mean that some high-roller can't drop the Maitre D a c-note and steal your table.
That's life
Then you advertise as such. Call it: Star Wars Casino Battlefront 2 for Rich People. Sell the game at $1000. Or whatever you want. Heck, sell the Super Titanium Deluxe Edition for $1000000. And make it 18+ as well.
But don't tell me it's NOT pay to win when it is demonstrably PAY TO WIN just as in those mobile games I don't play because they are PAY TO WIN. Also, don't tell me it's NOT GAMBLING when it definitely IS GAMBLING.
Originally Posted by Banana
LOL, in 2017 if you paid $60 for a game that you could beat in under 90 minutes, there would be an uproar.
Maybe the government should pass laws mandating the number of quality gameplay hours per dollar a game publisher has to provide.
Not really, as long as you advertise as being such. Why the deception?
Senua’s Sacrifice is 11 hours at most (more likely between 6 and 8) to play through, and people love that game. And only $40. You see, there is this concept called replayability. Do you remember Crono Trigger? If you wanted to, you could beat it in 30 minutes flat too. Or you could take 30 hours with it. It was all up to you.
Originally Posted by Banana
My only point was that the industry has been bilking gamers for a long time. It only seems to be a problem now because the whiners have a youtube channel they can use to promote their bitching and complaining.
My comment was somewhat hyperbolic, sorry for the confusion. My point is that once upon a time there was a lot of frustrating shit about video games that cost money. Alot of that went away as the market evolved. Sometimes it took a while for that stuff to go away. Sometimes it came back in various incarnations. And what's going on today seems absolutely no different
It's a very weak point you have, as what is going on now is not exactly like what came before. Right now we are trying to ensure that this stuff goes away because the while was already taken, but I'm afraid pandora's box is already open thanks mainly to CS-GO, Overwatch and GTA V. Which leads us to
Originally Posted by Banana
We didn't need the government meddling then, so why the hell do we need it now?
Mainly because of the gambling non-gambling element in products marketed squarely at 13 year olds. And of course the whales (read: vulnerables)
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