Sitting on BB, everydoby folds, a 57/9 whale completes, what range should I raise?

[gabl136]

I'm sitting on BB, everybody folds, a 57/9 whale completes on SB (only have 35 hands on him).

What range of hands would you raise?
What is the raise amount that would get him to fold most of the time? 3BBs? 4BBs, 55BBs?

Am I assuming right if I think the whale is completing close to 100% of hands here?

[MadMojoMonkey]

I'm sitting on BB, everybody folds, a 57/9 whale completes on SB (only have 35 hands on him).

What range of hands would you raise?

It depends (as always).

It's a slightly stronger position than being on the button and having it fold to the CO, who limps. Stronger because you not only have position PRE on him, but you are also last to act PRE, and you definitely have position post-flop.

Usually, my range in this spot is just over 40%. All PP, all broadways, all AX, all SC's and S1G's and most S2G's... a bit more to round it out.

This is all in a vacuum, though. You take that range and you modify it against what Villain will continue with.

What is the raise amount that would get him to fold most of the time? 3BBs? 4BBs, 55BBs?

Ummm... if his range is wide and weak, then why are you trying to make him fold? Shouldn't you be asking, "Given that I can choose a range which is well ahead of his range, what is the most I can bet that he will still call?" I mean, we still need to consider playability post-flop, but this is the approach you should be taking. "How do I get Villain to shovel more chips into the pot while he's holding an inferior hand?" This is the time to also ask, "What will I do if he 3-bets?" Don't be afraid to raise and snap-fold in this spot. It depends on what Villain's range to 3-bet is, but your 40% range is mostly garbage against a big PP or suited broadway hand.

Anyway, this is something you have to figure out for each individual by varying your bet amount to test him. At your current level, I would just use 1 raise amount for a session, and then another raise amount for a different session and compare after the fact. You can easily still draw false conclusions due to small sample size using this method, but it's better than trying to "mix it up" in one session and then try to draw conclusions.

It's likely that many or most of the players on any given site at a given stakes play similarly in similar spots. I.e. if someone limps on the SB, they likely have similar habits as other people who limp on the SB. (Personally, I think this is almost always a bad choice, especially at the micros. Giving away a free flop to the BB is just asking to get coolered by random hands and allowing them to play perfectly against you PRE.)

Am I assuming right if I think the whale is completing close to 100% of hands here?

Each whale is a unique snowflake. You just have to pay attention and see what this whale is all about. Sure, a whale is a whale, and I just said that you should expect similarity among whales. (I guess most whales are calling a raise too light in this spot. Exactly how light is not clear.) People are complex and it's up to you to figure out what each Villain's goal is. Are they trying to bingo a hand with ATC? Are they aggressive post-flop in a deceptive way? Do they give up OTR when they miss? Every Villain has holes in his game due to misunderstandings about poker. It's up to you to figure out what he's wrong about and exploit it.

[gabl136]

Since whales will call you down with any pair, draw, overcards and all sorts of other garbage it's hard to outplay them if i don't flop something strong. Also, if my raising range is 40%, i will be flopping TP even less often. So the question then is, will i make up for the lost money when i do hit. You presumably think that i should?

I do get your point though...

Being in position is always nice, and when the villain isn't aggro i can always chose to do whatever i want after being checked to...
Plus when i do hit he will probably call me with garbage.

[MadMojoMonkey]

Since whales will call you down with any pair, draw, overcards and all sorts of other garbage

@ underline: Then betting any A-high hand for value is going to win you plenty of monies.

it's hard to outplay them if i don't flop something strong.

instead of hard, I think you meant to say:

It's so easy to outplay them that I 2nd guess myself and lose money by folding or not betting when I have A-high and K-high hands. I mean, how can these actually be value hands when Villain is betting, right? Except that I know they are... It just feels like bad play.

It IS bad play, in a vacuum, but we're out of the vacuum. You're exploiting a specific villain. This makes you exploitable, by definition. But you know (or at least you strongly suspect) that this villain isn't able to exploit your adjustment to exploit him. ALSO, you will not be doing this against other villains. So they will see you doing this crazy loose style and (if they notice your play at all) think you're a crazy loose player... but you're not. You're a tight player who has spotted a crack in someone's defense, and you're attacking that crack (and only that crack) with fervor.

Also, if my raising range is 40%, i will be flopping TP even less often. So the question then is, will i make up for the lost money when i do hit. You presumably think that i should?

Playing a loose range PRE is not a license to play aggro post flop. You can easily burn an hours worth of winnings with one poorly timed call. Just because villain's range is wide, that doesn't mean there are no monsters in there.

Play this spot like you would play the button. You should have a lot of experience playing weak/speculative hands (suited connectors and AX offsuit, other weak suited stuff) in position when there are only limpers in the pot. You're describing a VERY common scenario in poker. Playing a wide range from the button and BB is recommended.

I do get your point though...

Being in position is always nice, and when the villain isn't aggro i can always chose to do whatever i want after being checked to...
Plus when i do hit he will probably call me with garbage.

This has nothing to do with aggro; we're only talking about his super wide ranges.
Even when Villain is aggro, you can still pwn him with these moves, because your ranges are beating his ranges.

The villain has made it a higher variance game with his LAGG style, but you can't change that. You can only embrace the variance and trust that when the math says to call, you call.


TL;DR
If your opponent will call you with all their drawing hands, then you can safely make value bets when you only hold A-high hands.
If your opponent will bet with draws and air, then you can probably call them with your A-high hands. (Need more specific info and a discussion on pot odds, but yeah.)

[griffey24]

I think you need to ask yourself where the money is coming from.

1. Is the money coming from villain limp/folding in blinds? In which case I'd probably isolate very wide here. (Any two?)
2. Is the money coming from villain limp/calling wide, and then c/f tons of flops. In which case I'd probably isolate very wide here. (Any two?)
3. Is the money coming from villain limp/calling and being a station post? In which case I'd probably open a tighter range, probably similar to an MP or CO opening range.

[WeldPhaser]

I think you need to ask yourself where the money is coming from.

1. Is the money coming from villain limp/folding in blinds? In which case I'd probably isolate very wide here. (Any two?)
2. Is the money coming from villain limp/calling wide, and then c/f tons of flops. In which case I'd probably isolate very wide here. (Any two?)
3. Is the money coming from villain limp/calling and being a station post? In which case I'd probably open a tighter range, probably similar to an MP or CO opening range.

you put that very nicely griff, yeah if he's a station we know we want a stronger range that can handle multi-street calls/bets.

[Carlos_Suranga]

With those statistics sounds like a bad player. If you are playing full stack i would raise any A, KQ, KJ, KT, QJ, QT, and a lot of suited connectors to 3bb to build a pot when in position. If you don't like the flop you can check and see what happens if he doesn't have too much fold equity.