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Randomness thread, part two.

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  1. #21376
    Quote Originally Posted by oskar View Post
    I've looked into the keto stuff, but it seems that there are a lot of angry guys shouting at each other about how everyone else is doing keto wrong, so I don't even know where to start with.
    Start here. This book is where most info on keto comes from http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/the-ketogenic-diet/

    You are right that it is tough to get good information by reading blokes on the internet. But if you don't want to read a book, you will get a lot of quality info from FAQs on r/keto, r/ketogains, and some articles that top google.

    I also think I'd be really bad on a diet that cuts some food sources completely. If I don't eat carbs for a couple of days I could genocide an entire people for a cookie. I don't think I'd be good on that.
    This happens to most people when first starting keto. When the body is used to getting its energy from glucose from food (carbs), it doesn't go down without a fight when it doesn't get that glucose. The switch to fat oxidation and ketones for energy can be tough for some and easy for others. It comes in stages, with generally each several days being easier than the previous. Carb cravings during the early phase of the diet do come, but they're infrequent and short-lived, and they're often also a product of consuming too few minerals, too little water, or simply not eating high enough calories. After about a week, most people experience hunger blunting and a distaste for carbs. The ketosis state makes the body not crave food like it used to since the body doesn't use food for energy directly anymore. This is the main reason why it's effective as a weight loss tool; keto-adapted people often find it hard to eat enough food because they're just not hungry since their bodies get energy from fat cells primarily. This also coincides with a distaste for sweets. After being a good 3 weeks deep into keto, I found that I really did not want to eat breads and desserts, not because they were not a part of my diet, but because they didn't seem appetizing. Everybody experiences this to a degree.

    But I need to do something. I've been gaining about 4lbs a year for the past decade and went from borderline underweight to overweight and I'm feeling flabby.
    But I think what I'll do is calorie count so I stop overeating. That seems like the simpler thing to do.
    If that works, then go for it. The important thing about calorie counting is to do it very slowly. Very, very slowly and consistently. Like, plan on only losing half a pound every two weeks or something. The reason for this is that dropping calories too much triggers major cravings. This is probably the main reason people fail on diets. They drop calories too much and their body panics. Keto sidesteps this to a significant degree by blunting hunger.


    If you choose keto, this is pretty much all you need to know: keep below 50 net carbs (carbs minus fiber) a day, but try for below 20 at first. Make sure you're getting enough electrolytes: sodium, potassium, magnesium, calcium. This typically involves adding Lite Salt and a mag supplement, which are things people should typically use even on a traditional western diet anyways. Drink a little more water than usual. Consume about 1.5 gram per kilogram of lean body mass in protein and the rest in fats. Don't cut calories that much (or at all) during the adaptation phase (first 3 months). Calorie cuts happen naturally during the adaptation phase, but that's when bouts of hunger can also come, so respond to them by upping calories with fats instead of breaking the diet. It's after you feel good on keto, when your hunger is blunted and you have no energy swings and have constant mental clarity for a couple weeks that it becomes easy to cut calories.

    Try to do this for 3 months. If you don't want to do that, try for at least 1 month. If you can only give it 1 week, well, you're going to have a pretty jaded view of it because people who quit then do so because it's "too hard." But nobody quits after 3 months because it's too hard, since by that time the hard is completely gone. There is a large range of reaction to keto. Some people feel fantastic after just one day; others need the full 3 month phase to get there.
  2. #21377
    oskar's Avatar
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    Thanks! I'll give it a try after I get my baseline. I have never really worried about my diet in the past but if I keep up my pace I'll be obese in a decade. So I'm not in the biggest of hurries, but I should start looking after my body more.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  3. #21378
    spoonitnow's Avatar
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    keto my eggo
  4. #21379
    im sorry but i found this fucking hilarious

  5. #21380
    rong's Avatar
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    Yeah that was pretty funny. That's quite British humour too.
    I'm the king of bongo, baby I'm the king of bongo bong.
  6. #21381
    Quote Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by boost View Post
    Don't think that's the genre they'd fit into. It's a cover-- they do lots of covers, and to boot the song it's a cover of is by a practicing Jew.

    fwiw I think the original is a great song.
    I know it's a cover. I'd be surprised if there was a Christian rock band pulling off the Kiss-style face paint.
    I'm fairly certain that Jesus was a Jew, too.

    This song is weird. The lyrics are painfully repetitive. The music is too, and also is dark and rather indicative of driving at night in moderate traffic (to me. I'm sure I could find other analogies for the sound, but it's def. not a church-like sound.) Yet, despite the disappointingly repetitive lyrics and music, the song somehow doesn't disappoint.
    They were actually reasonably good. He can't sing for shit now, but he knwos it and has had the sense to employ a young lady who can sing, and she carries them well.

    They basically did a few 80's covers, stuff like Love Shack, a couple of their hits from when they were an unfamous indie band, and of course Spirit in the Sky. He said people ask him all the time if he gets bored of singing it, to which he replies "how could I hate singing a song that puts a smile on so many faces? I FUCKING LOVE singing this song!" to rapturous cheers. I'll give him his dues, he did not look like a man going through the motions to earn a few quid, he had a lot of enthusiasm.

    Obviously I'm no fan of Christian rock, or 80's cheesy glam, or whatever you want to call these guys. But they're worth watching at a festival if there's nothing better on.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  7. #21382
    To emphasise the point that they were enjoyable, I lasted the 40 minute gig, but only watched around 20 minutes of the Dub Pistols, who were up next, because I'm bored of drum and bass.

    Yeah, glam rock followed by live drum and bass. That's how the festival started.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  8. #21383
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    im sorry but i found this fucking hilarious
    Lots of bits of it were funny but a there were bits that made no sense to me.
  9. #21384
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
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    Anyone watch CrazyRussianHacker on YouTube?

    He's long been a source of entertainment for me, but I recently clicked on the CC box by mistake and I found a whole new level of entertainment from this guy.
  10. #21385
    Yeah that dude is awesome.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  11. #21386
    Meanwhile, in my "upmarket" town...

    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  12. #21387
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey View Post
    Anyone watch CrazyRussianHacker on YouTube?

    He's long been a source of entertainment for me, but I recently clicked on the CC box by mistake and I found a whole new level of entertainment from this guy.
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Yeah that dude is awesome.
    Turn on the English subtitles (CC button - closed caption) and enjoy the ride.
  13. #21388
    That can be this evening's entertainment, cheers.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  14. #21389
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    entitled bernie bots and illegals strike again assaulting innocent people in california while the mayor stands by telling the police to stand down and not stop this domestic terrorism
  15. #21390
    Quote Originally Posted by spoonitnow View Post
    entitled bernie bots and illegals strike again assaulting innocent people in california while the mayor stands by telling the police to stand down and not stop this domestic terrorism
    The Bolsheviks really fucked Russia up, but I take it you get why they revolted, and why they were so extreme. While this doesn't excuse the ultimate failure that the revolution turned into, understanding the why behind the discontent is illuminating information that would have been invaluable to the czarist and the country as a whole. This isn't to equate the current society to the feudalism of czarist Russia, but just to say that whether you think there is merit to their outrage or not, the fact is they are outraged, and calling them entitled cry babies (which in some cases is accurate) doesn't and won't solve the underlying issue.

    We actually can see that more than likely the most effective method of dealing with the extreme demands of any fringe elements is to grant the more reasonable demands. For example, gay marriage is now legal. This is a huge deal and plenty of a victory for the majority of social progressives-- now when the fringe demands that every public place have an extra bathroom (or however many extra bathrooms) installed-- the absurdity of this demand is easily highlighted and when the fringe doesn't give ground they alienate the majority that support the overall movement.
  16. #21391
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    Quote Originally Posted by boost View Post
    The Bolsheviks really fucked Russia up, but I take it you get why they revolted, and why they were so extreme. While this doesn't excuse the ultimate failure that the revolution turned into, understanding the why behind the discontent is illuminating information that would have been invaluable to the czarist and the country as a whole. This isn't to equate the current society to the feudalism of czarist Russia, but just to say that whether you think there is merit to their outrage or not, the fact is they are outraged, and calling them entitled cry babies (which in some cases is accurate) doesn't and won't solve the underlying issue.

    We actually can see that more than likely the most effective method of dealing with the extreme demands of any fringe elements is to grant the more reasonable demands. For example, gay marriage is now legal. This is a huge deal and plenty of a victory for the majority of social progressives-- now when the fringe demands that every public place have an extra bathroom (or however many extra bathrooms) installed-- the absurdity of this demand is easily highlighted and when the fringe doesn't give ground they alienate the majority that support the overall movement.
    and all of this has fuckall to do with sub-human pieces of shit attacking someone because ouch my feels, that's all that shit in california is, ouch my feels i feel entitled to hurt people because wahhhh i'm a fucking mental toddler and that's all i understand

    the most effective method of dealing with extreme demands is to say no, that's these fuckheads problems, their parents never said fucking no to their ridiculous shit

    this has nothing to do with gay marriage and everything to do with babies who hit things because they can't use their big boy words
    Last edited by spoonitnow; 06-05-2016 at 04:39 PM.
  17. #21392
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    If I don't like your political message, and I attack you in an effort to silence it or change it, that is by definition terrorism.

    These pieces of shit are real, live terrorist threats to American citizens. There's a simple way to deal with that.
  18. #21393
    What's going on over there? I've not seen anything about it.
  19. #21394
    Quote Originally Posted by spoonitnow View Post
    and all of this has fuckall to do with ..
    Yeah, no, you're wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by spoonitnow View Post
    If I don't like your political message, and I attack you in an effort to silence it or change it, that is by definition terrorism.

    These pieces of shit are real, live terrorist threats to American citizens. There's a simple way to deal with that.
    I've only heard about this from you, but if it is as you describe, then sure, I agree it's terrorism. But that is besides the point-- the purpose of my comparison was not to comment on who is right or not, as that doesn't matter. There are people with grievances that take them very seriously, apparently serious enough to resort to political terrorism.

    Whether you think their grievances are legit or not, responding by ignoring the grievances and calling them babies (however accurate this may be) is not going to stop the terrorism. Rounding them up and doling out severe punishments is likely to make martyrs. The regressive left has gained enough steam that it needs to be taken seriously, and it needs to be dealt with delicately less we turn onlookers into sympathizers and sympathizers into activists.
  20. #21395
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    Side note: terrorism is pretty loosely defined, so as to not let terrorists escape prosecution over a legal technicality.
  21. #21396
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    Quote Originally Posted by boost View Post
    Yeah, no, you're wrong.



    I've only heard about this from you, but if it is as you describe, then sure, I agree it's terrorism. But that is besides the point-- the purpose of my comparison was not to comment on who is right or not, as that doesn't matter. There are people with grievances that take them very seriously, apparently serious enough to resort to political terrorism.

    Whether you think their grievances are legit or not, responding by ignoring the grievances and calling them babies (however accurate this may be) is not going to stop the terrorism. Rounding them up and doling out severe punishments is likely to make martyrs. The regressive left has gained enough steam that it needs to be taken seriously, and it needs to be dealt with delicately less we turn onlookers into sympathizers and sympathizers into activists.
    Okay nm if you don't know what I'm talking about
  22. #21397
    Quote Originally Posted by spoonitnow View Post
    Okay nm if you don't know what I'm talking about
    This has nothing to do with that. I do know what happened now, yet it doesn't change any of the points I made. I ceded the establishment of facts to you and made my case accordingly.
  23. #21398
    What are their legitimate grievances?
  24. #21399
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    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    What are their legitimate grievances?
    they didn't like what someone said so they attacked people and destroyed property
  25. #21400
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    What are their legitimate grievances?
    Why are you trying to pick an argument? The point I'm making, as I clearly stated, does not rest on whether their grievances are or are not legitimate. There is a large and growing chunk of our population that feels the system is rigged and have abandoned normative discourse in favor of just burning the whole fucking thing down.

    I'm not defending any group, I'm pointing out that we have a problem in our country. The same thing I'm saying about Sanders supporters can be said about Trump supporters. There's a very real possibility that Trump will be our next president, and whether you think his supporters have real or imagined grievances is besides the point and only serves as a distraction.

    Stop being little twats acting on your base tribal tendencies.
  26. #21401
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    Quote Originally Posted by boost View Post
    Why are you trying to pick an argument? The point I'm making, as I clearly stated, does not rest on whether their grievances are or are not legitimate. There is a large and growing chunk of our population that feels the system is rigged and have abandoned normative discourse in favor of just burning the whole fucking thing down.

    I'm not defending any group, I'm pointing out that we have a problem in our country. The same thing I'm saying about Sanders supporters can be said about Trump supporters. There's a very real possibility that Trump will be our next president, and whether you think his supporters have real or imagined grievances is besides the point and only serves as a distraction.

    Stop being little twats acting on your base tribal tendencies.
    I don't negotiate with terrorists
  27. #21402
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    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    Start here. This book is where most info on keto comes from http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/the-ketogenic-diet/

    You are right that it is tough to get good information by reading blokes on the internet. But if you don't want to read a book, you will get a lot of quality info from FAQs on r/keto, r/ketogains, and some articles that top google.



    This happens to most people when first starting keto. When the body is used to getting its energy from glucose from food (carbs), it doesn't go down without a fight when it doesn't get that glucose. The switch to fat oxidation and ketones for energy can be tough for some and easy for others. It comes in stages, with generally each several days being easier than the previous. Carb cravings during the early phase of the diet do come, but they're infrequent and short-lived, and they're often also a product of consuming too few minerals, too little water, or simply not eating high enough calories. After about a week, most people experience hunger blunting and a distaste for carbs. The ketosis state makes the body not crave food like it used to since the body doesn't use food for energy directly anymore. This is the main reason why it's effective as a weight loss tool; keto-adapted people often find it hard to eat enough food because they're just not hungry since their bodies get energy from fat cells primarily. This also coincides with a distaste for sweets. After being a good 3 weeks deep into keto, I found that I really did not want to eat breads and desserts, not because they were not a part of my diet, but because they didn't seem appetizing. Everybody experiences this to a degree.



    If that works, then go for it. The important thing about calorie counting is to do it very slowly. Very, very slowly and consistently. Like, plan on only losing half a pound every two weeks or something. The reason for this is that dropping calories too much triggers major cravings. This is probably the main reason people fail on diets. They drop calories too much and their body panics. Keto sidesteps this to a significant degree by blunting hunger.



    If you choose keto, this is pretty much all you need to know: keep below 50 net carbs (carbs minus fiber) a day, but try for below 20 at first. Make sure you're getting enough electrolytes: sodium, potassium, magnesium, calcium. This typically involves adding Lite Salt and a mag supplement, which are things people should typically use even on a traditional western diet anyways. Drink a little more water than usual. Consume about 1.5 gram per kilogram of lean body mass in protein and the rest in fats. Don't cut calories that much (or at all) during the adaptation phase (first 3 months). Calorie cuts happen naturally during the adaptation phase, but that's when bouts of hunger can also come, so respond to them by upping calories with fats instead of breaking the diet. It's after you feel good on keto, when your hunger is blunted and you have no energy swings and have constant mental clarity for a couple weeks that it becomes easy to cut calories.

    Try to do this for 3 months. If you don't want to do that, try for at least 1 month. If you can only give it 1 week, well, you're going to have a pretty jaded view of it because people who quit then do so because it's "too hard." But nobody quits after 3 months because it's too hard, since by that time the hard is completely gone. There is a large range of reaction to keto. Some people feel fantastic after just one day; others need the full 3 month phase to get there.
    So I've counted calories for 8 days now with no intention on losing a lot of weight and I'm at 1427kcal average. I account that to being lazy as fuck and when I have to weight, look up, multiply and write down everything I eat I'm more likely to go: fuck that, I'll just drink more water instead.
    No major cravings. Except for gummi bears, so I bought gummi bears.

    I still want to try keto since Joe Rogan has such a hardon for it, but I'll get down to my ideal weight first.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  28. #21403
    Quote Originally Posted by boost View Post
    Why are you trying to pick an argument? The point I'm making, as I clearly stated, does not rest on whether their grievances are or are not legitimate. There is a large and growing chunk of our population that feels the system is rigged and have abandoned normative discourse in favor of just burning the whole fucking thing down.

    I'm not defending any group, I'm pointing out that we have a problem in our country. The same thing I'm saying about Sanders supporters can be said about Trump supporters. There's a very real possibility that Trump will be our next president, and whether you think his supporters have real or imagined grievances is besides the point and only serves as a distraction.

    Stop being little twats acting on your base tribal tendencies.
    I'm wasn't looking to argue. I just wanted to know what the grievances are so I could better assess the points made.
  29. #21404
    1400kcal is tiny yo. are you a 120 pound girl?
  30. #21405
    oskar's Avatar
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    I don't think I've ever eaten that much. I think the bulk of my calories was in juice. I'd have like a litre of orange juice a day plus a can of coke or red bull. I've cut that to 400ml OJ and no other sweetened drinks.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  31. #21406
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    I'm wasn't looking to argue. I just wanted to know what the grievances are so I could better assess the points made.
    I've told you, and am here telling you again: the legitimacy of the grievances is irrelevant. If you insist on assessing them, I'll simply concede on that point so that we can move on to what matters. So, in closing, the substance of the grievances does not matter, what matters is that they are thought to be legitimate and so much so that people are willing to tear the whole house down. Now do you have a legitimate response or are you going to continue to try to play argumentative three card monte?
  32. #21407
    How can I play argumentative three card monte when I don't even have a position on this?

    It sounds to me like your point is one of tactics with how to deal with people who do not have legitimate grievances. At first, I was confused by this since your additional statement that the more reasonable demands should be met implies legitimacy. Well, I'm still confused, but oh well.
  33. #21408
    Quote Originally Posted by oskar View Post
    I don't think I've ever eaten that much. I think the bulk of my calories was in juice. I'd have like a litre of orange juice a day plus a can of coke or red bull. I've cut that to 400ml OJ and no other sweetened drinks.
    Are you Peter Dinklage?
  34. #21409
    Quote Originally Posted by ImSavy View Post
    What's going on over there? I've not seen anything about it.
    Multiple posts later and I'm still non the wiser.

    Why is everyone posting so cryptically?
  35. #21410
    im guessing it was riots against trump in san jose but not sure
  36. #21411
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    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    im guessing it was riots against trump in san jose but not sure
  37. #21412
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    How can I play argumentative three card monte when I don't even have a position on this?

    It sounds to me like your point is one of tactics with how to deal with people who do not have legitimate grievances. At first, I was confused by this since your additional statement that the more reasonable demands should be met implies legitimacy. Well, I'm still confused, but oh well.
    Fair enough. My point is that not all grievances and policy aspirations on the left are illegitimate nonsense. The trick is to grant reasonable requests but tactfully put your foot down when the extremist in the movement keep pushing for more. If done right, you can get the extremist to alienate the moderates in their movement.

    The analogy of the Bolshevik revolution is that if the czarist had come to the table with anything better than "lol, you're serfs, get back in the trenches and in the fields!" it's quite possible the USSR would have never come to be.

    Conversely, openly treating the aggrieved like their concerns don't matter makes them sympathetic to moderates and otherwise energizes the movement. Case in point: the surprise successes of outsider candidates in both primaries.
  38. #21413
    Quote Originally Posted by boost View Post
    Conversely, openly treating the aggrieved like their concerns don't matter makes them sympathetic to moderates and otherwise energizes the movement. Case in point: the surprise successes of outsider candidates in both primaries.
    Great point. Counterpoint: treating illegitimate grievances as legitimate legitimizes them and makes them more popular.

    That aside, I really don't know where I fall. I think I would interpret your stance as being one of diplomacy. Yeah, it's good to make people think that they're being treated fairly. On the flip side, if somebody is wrong, it's a bad idea to perpetuate their wrongness.

    So maybe understanding is found in analogy. Let's use creationism. What convinces a creationist to abandon creationism and acknowledge evolution? Well, probably an addressing of their concerns without belittling them, while showing them the inadequacies of creationism and the adequacy of evolution. So, I think this means I agree with you, with the addition that I think it's important to not lend a helping hand to a falsehood. Of course I think you implied the latter in the first place; I just wanted to declare it, I guess.

    Thoughts?
  39. #21414
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    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    Great point. Counterpoint: treating illegitimate grievances as legitimate legitimizes them and makes them more popular.

    That aside, I really don't know where I fall. I think I would interpret your stance as being one of diplomacy. Yeah, it's good to make people think that they're being treated fairly. On the flip side, if somebody is wrong, it's a bad idea to perpetuate their wrongness.
    This bothers me in my job.

    It's very much like the students and their parents think they're paying us for the piece of paper which says they are employable, and not the act of making them employable.

    It's not something I like to think about, but I end up dealing with it almost every week in one way or another.
    I still love the job. Don't get me wrong. There are just some quirks that I wasn't expecting.

    E.g.
    I had a student tell me she didn't see why she was being punished with a point reduction on her report which contained inaccurate statements. I was stunned for a second. I couldn't believe that I had to explain to her that her score was what she earned and that I couldn't imagine having an interest in punishing her for anything, much less for something so trivial as a physics report.

    I had a student tell me he didn't see why we had to make college so hard. I told him that's literally what he's hired us to do. I told him that if his education was going to happen at this quality at his own leisurely pace anyway, then there's no need for him to pay boatloads of money to a university. (Actually, this guy was awesome, because he got it.) It's still indicative of their (sigh... our) instinct to cry foul before seeking to understand why the system is what it is, and maybe it's exactly what they want, after all.
  40. #21415
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    Not to be off topic. That's definitely on a different scale from people taking to the streets in organized protest.

    Whether or not it's violent is kinda not a thing to control for. Mob mentality and behaviors being what they are, a peaceful gathering can turn to chaos with little warning. Football riots are still a thing, yeah? Those aren't even aggrieved protesters, they're just a group of people with too much adrenaline.


    I can't decide what's important to other people. If they have decided to organize themselves and make demands, then at some point, at some scale, it doesn't matter what the demands are. It's just practical to admit that morality is fluid.

    At the same time, Naziism was kinda a not good thing that a lot of people got together and demanded, huh?
    :/


    People are mad. I'm gonna go play video games and ignore all the people for a while.


    EDIT: I wouldn't go so far as to call it a phobia, but I'm pretty uncomfortable in any large group of people. Fairs and malls and such kinda weird me out.
  41. #21416
    Just remember, all things are cuck except for you. Then you're slick as a willy irregardless (it's a word!) of where you at.
  42. #21417
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    Just remember, all things are cuck except for you. Then you're slick as a willy irregardless (it's a word!) of where you at.
    It might be a word, but it isn't a good word.
  43. #21418
    Quote Originally Posted by NightGizmo View Post
    It might be a word, but it isn't a good word.







    srsly tho it rends my soul that this not-word is a word
  44. #21419
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    This is a legitimate video from Thames Valley Police (UK Police force) explaining consent using a cup of tea. It's pretty awesome and very English.

    I'm the king of bongo, baby I'm the king of bongo bong.
  45. #21420
    I want tea when I'm unconscious. Why doesn't anyone try pouring tea down my throat when I'm unconscious?
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  46. #21421
    I'm not quite sure why the idea of consent needs to be explained to sexually active adults like they're kids learning how to use a potty. This is a bit fucking weird really, and certainly a waste of taxpayer's money.

    That said it did make me want tea.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
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  47. #21422
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    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    I'm not quite sure why the idea of consent needs to be explained to sexually active adults like they're kids learning how to use a potty.
    It's not being explained to adults, it's being explained to men. If you don't teach men not to rape, then they'll just rape people.

    You know, in the same way that people who rob and murder only need to be told that robbing and murdering is wrong to keep them from doing it.

    Fucking morons.
  48. #21423
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    Spoon that's an overly simplistic view. It's not beyond belief for some dumb guy to think that because a girl said yes and then got hammered and passed out that it's still OK to fuck her.

    Also, the other parts it points out about having said yes once and thinking it's ok to assume yes in the future, it may make someone think about it and not behave like a dick when they might have had they not thought about it.

    Plus, can't plead ignorance either once it's commonly agreed by most people and it's clearly out there in the public domain.
    I'm the king of bongo, baby I'm the king of bongo bong.
  49. #21424
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    Quote Originally Posted by rong View Post
    Spoon that's an overly simplistic view. It's not beyond belief for some dumb guy to think that because a girl said yes and then got hammered and passed out that it's still OK to fuck her.

    Also, the other parts it points out about having said yes once and thinking it's ok to assume yes in the future, it may make someone think about it and not behave like a dick when they might have had they not thought about it.

    Plus, can't plead ignorance either once it's commonly agreed by most people and it's clearly out there in the public domain.
    No, it's not overly simplistic. No guy out there of sound mind thinks it's okay to fuck a girl who is unconscious, and guys who are not of sound mind are not going to stop just because they saw some video on the Internet.

    It's completely demeaning to men and perpetrates the idea that women are always victims and men are always predators.
  50. #21425
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    I couldn't help click the video response.



    Reminds me of spoony. No troll.
  51. #21426
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    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    I'm not quite sure why the idea of consent needs to be explained to sexually active adults like they're kids learning how to use a potty. This is a bit fucking weird really, and certainly a waste of taxpayer's money.

    That said it did make me want tea.
    It was clearly stated that it was the tea maker's first time making tea for someone.

    Many people become adults - turn 18 years old, that is - and are virgins. I'm surrounded by them, actually.

    I can't remember where it came from, so grain of salt with these statistics, but I read somewhere that 97% of physics majors are still virgins when they graduate college. Whereas 3% of theater majors are virgins when they graduate college.

    Obv. these stats are questionable, but if they represent even a partial truth about people, then it stands to reason that plenty of people are in their mid 20's and are virgins.

    I still think the concept of "don't be all rapey" is pretty much in the "do unto others as you'd have done unto yourself" rule. Problem is... that much pent up sexuality in a person might make them want anything. So "what they want done unto themself" is maybe a lot blurry. Also, human sexuality is more complex than I can understand. Some people want things that I find repulsive or scary. It's not clear cut (to me) that any behavior will or wont be interpreted as rapey in some context to someone.
  52. #21427
    Quote Originally Posted by spoonitnow View Post
    No guy out there of sound mind thinks it's okay to fuck a girl who is unconscious, and guys who are not of sound mind are not going to stop just because they saw some video on the Internet.
    This is bang on.

    But this isn't a huge sexism issue to me like it is you.

    Quote Originally Posted by mojo
    Obv. these stats are questionable, but if they represent even a partial truth about people, then it stands to reason that plenty of people are in their mid 20's and are virgins.
    I was a virgin until 22. I didn't need to be taught about consent. Noone does. Either you know it's wrong to fuck a woman who does not / cannot consent, or you don't care that it's wrong. I doubt there's anyone who does that and thinks what they did was acceptable. Being a virgin does not make someone more likely to be a rapist, in fact the opposite is probably true, that virgins are less likely to be rapists because rapists are all about sexual dominance and not about making love. When I was a virgin, I thought my first time would be wonderful. It wasn't, but that's besides the point. I can't imagine there's many people whose idea of losing their virginity is to put their dick in a woman who has passed out through drink.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
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  53. #21428
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey View Post
    I couldn't help click the video response.



    Reminds me of spoony. No troll.
    That's not far from the truth at all. This is why affirmative consent can never be the legal standard if we want anything resembling a functional court system.
  54. #21429
    Tbf you only have to go to a nightclub at random to find people acting a bit rapey.
  55. #21430
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    Lol acting a bit rapey
    I'm the king of bongo, baby I'm the king of bongo bong.
  56. #21431
    My home town is depressing.

    Recently, we made international news apparently, as a girl at a new "upmarket" nightclub decided to give head to three lads on the dancefloor, while others looked on and filmed it.

    This week, a pig's head was thrown into the house of a Muslim family.

    And today a body was pulled from the canal.

    We used to be famous for carpets and steam trains.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
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  57. #21432
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    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    My home town is depressing.

    Recently, we made international news apparently, as a girl at a new "upmarket" nightclub decided to give head to three lads on the dancefloor, while others looked on and filmed it.

    This week, a pig's head was thrown into the house of a Muslim family.

    And today a body was pulled from the canal.

    We used to be famous for carpets and steam trains.
    I don't exactly see why the first one is depressing. Are you depressed 'cause you weren't there? Or that the club wasn't "private?"

    You said nightclub, so I'm assuming you mean it's a bar / no minors allowed type of place.
    The other patrons were filming it, so not calling foul or leaving.

    Who was the victim, here? The dancefloor?
  58. #21433
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    My hometown made the news because the local university infected someone with Zika.

    28 days later started like this...

    http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2016/...needle-in-lab/
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  59. #21434
    Quote Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey View Post
    I don't exactly see why the first one is depressing. Are you depressed 'cause you weren't there? Or that the club wasn't "private?"

    You said nightclub, so I'm assuming you mean it's a bar / no minors allowed type of place.
    The other patrons were filming it, so not calling foul or leaving.

    Who was the victim, here? The dancefloor?
    The victim is the town, and its reputation. I'm not particularly prudish, I'm certainly liberal when it comes to the private actions of consenting adults. But this isn't private. You surprise me mojo, I thought you were more reserved than me when it comes to this kind of stuff. I'd expect spoon to say "what's the problem" while you say "that's nasty".
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
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  60. #21435
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    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    The victim is the town, and its reputation. I'm not particularly prudish, I'm certainly liberal when it comes to the private actions of consenting adults. But this isn't private. You surprise me mojo, I thought you were more reserved than me when it comes to this kind of stuff. I'd expect spoon to say "what's the problem" while you say "that's nasty".
    I'd say what's the problem if it was in private, but I agree with you on this.
  61. #21436
    You mean that doesn't happen at nightclubs on the reg?

    One of these days I may have to go to one, but man, I don't wanna.
  62. #21437
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    You mean that doesn't happen at nightclubs on the reg?
    All sorts of stuff goes on in the toilets, but most people who go out to get laid usually take their catch home with them.

    Openly giving oral sex to multiple men on the dancefloor is certainly not common, at least I don't think so.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  63. #21438
    Anybody know why Bill Clinton isn't widely considered a rapist based on the Juanita Broaddrick stuff?
  64. #21439
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    Great point. Counterpoint: treating illegitimate grievances as legitimate legitimizes them and makes them more popular.

    That aside, I really don't know where I fall. I think I would interpret your stance as being one of diplomacy. Yeah, it's good to make people think that they're being treated fairly. On the flip side, if somebody is wrong, it's a bad idea to perpetuate their wrongness.

    So maybe understanding is found in analogy. Let's use creationism. What convinces a creationist to abandon creationism and acknowledge evolution? Well, probably an addressing of their concerns without belittling them, while showing them the inadequacies of creationism and the adequacy of evolution. So, I think this means I agree with you, with the addition that I think it's important to not lend a helping hand to a falsehood. Of course I think you implied the latter in the first place; I just wanted to declare it, I guess.

    Thoughts?
    Yeah, we're definitely on the same page. I'm not arguing for capitulation, I'm arguing against tribalism.

    Your creationism analogy is great. When the group is a small enough minority, and their claims obviously wrong, mockery on the societal level can be the right course. For example, Mormonism and Scientology. However, there's a critical mass, which, when achieved, calls for a shift if tactics, otherwise the mockery fuels the thing it's meant to combat. On a personal level, if our goal is to change minds, mockery needs to be used tactfully and sparingly, if at all.
  65. #21440
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    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    Anybody know why Bill Clinton isn't widely considered a rapist based on the Juanita Broaddrick stuff?
  66. #21441
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    What a badass.

    Can't wait for him to be president by proxy.
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  67. #21442
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    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    You surprise me mojo, I thought you were more reserved than me when it comes to this kind of stuff. I'd expect spoon to say "what's the problem" while you say "that's nasty".
    I said that I don't see the situation as depressing and proceeded to ask you questions about what you found depressing. I might describe the situation in other ways, but not depressing. I've been dealing with depression day in and day out for decades; I've developed a sense of things that just aren't worth the BS of glorifying up to a state of personal affliction.

    Some people are doing sexy things that I wouldn't do in a place I wouldn't do them.
    What could possibly be more mundane?

    Having fun while not hurting anyone is not a problem in my opinion.
    Dangerous fun is not a thing to freak out over, in my opinion.

    I stated my assumptions about the location, and my pertinent opinion is that our society is unnecessarily prudish. I mean, everyone loves good sex, so why is it the thing we all hide? (I mean, if it's good, you like it, right? Good can be subjective. There's prob people who hate sex out there, but did they ever have it good? I wonder.) Anyway... almost everyone loves sex (at least).

    I've seen nightclubs with the lights on. I can practically categorically state that nothing happening on or to the dance floor was going to make a significant impact on its nastiness. The performance act in question is not nasty in that way. It's nasty in the "do the nasty" way, sure.


    I'm sure my opinion would be a polar flip if it happened in a library and not a nightclub.
  68. #21443
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  69. #21444
    Quote Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey View Post
    I said that I don't see the situation as depressing and proceeded to ask you questions about what you found depressing. I might describe the situation in other ways, but not depressing. I've been dealing with depression day in and day out for decades...
    Well I don't mean literally depressing, in the sense that I need to see my doctor to get happy pills. I mean depressing in the sense that it's a sad reflection of the local community.

    I'm sure my opinion would be a polar flip if it happened in a library and not a nightclub.
    What if this incident in the nightclub involved a man giving head to another man? If you're cool with a woman doing this in an adult environment that is not private, then surely, as a champion of equality, you think it's ok for homosexuals to act in this way.

    Just because it's an adult environment, that doesn't make it acceptable. Can I masturbate on the dancefloor?
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
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  70. #21445
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    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Well I don't mean literally depressing, in the sense that I need to see my doctor to get happy pills. I mean depressing in the sense that it's a sad reflection of the local community.
    Sorry I misunderstood you, but sadness is not depression.

    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    What if this incident in the nightclub involved a man giving head to another man?
    My opinion doesn't change.

    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    If you're cool with a woman doing this in an adult environment that is not private, then surely, as a champion of equality, you think it's ok for homosexuals to act in this way.
    That's correct.

    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Just because it's an adult environment, that doesn't make it acceptable.
    No, but add in the vital fact that the other adults were cool with it at the time, and yes, that's a great definition of acceptable. Only adults were there, no one was hurt, they were enjoying themselves.

    Who am I to judge what adults do for fun/entertainment? If there are no victims, then I don't have the time to care.

    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Can I masturbate on the dancefloor?
    I'm sure that's fine in certain clubs and not others.
  71. #21446
    I'm so confused about your stance on this, he was just pointing out it's a bit low brow to be giving blowjobs on a nightclub dancefloor. It's not really socially accepted.
  72. #21447
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImSavy View Post
    I'm so confused about your stance on this, he was just pointing out it's a bit low brow to be giving blowjobs on a nightclub dancefloor. It's not really socially accepted.
    It's not generally acceptable, but it seems like it was acceptable to the people there at the time, who were adults.

    I'm not saying it's socially acceptable. I'm saying, I don't care about this.

    If there were no victims, then let adults have their fun.

    No matter how weird or gross I find it, they get to decide what they think is fun.
  73. #21448
    No, but add in the vital fact that the other adults were cool with it at the time, and yes, that's a great definition of acceptable. Only adults were there, no one was hurt, they were enjoying themselves.
    The adults who were cheering and filming it were cool with it obviously. But maybe not everyone. I can't imagine all the guys there were single, some would have girlfriends. I doubt those girls found it so fun. And maybe the sober barman saw it and was offended.

    I should point out that such behaviour is a) very likely to be against the policy of the nightclub, and b) certainly illegal.

    So is it ok for me to smoke crack on the dancefloor, assuming everyone is cool with it? Who cares about policy and law, so long as everyone is cool with it, right? Well everyone except the staff who have to be there because they don't count.

    I asked if you think homosexuality is different in your eyes for a reason. If this were to happen between two gay men in a non-gay club, it would probably cause a fight. There would be idiots who would confront the gay men because it would be seen as extremely offensive, more so than guy/girl interaction. Now considering that it would be much more likely to cause a negative reaction from others, is it still acceptable for homosexual men to have oral sex in view of those who don't want to see such sexual behaviour?

    Now we've determined that it's different when it's a gay couple, at least from the poit of view of acceptability from the other people in the vicinity, does that change your view?

    I can't say I care about this matter, I just have an opinion on it. And that opinion is it's sad.

    And you're being pedantic for pulling me up for saying "depressing". It's a common word here to describe something that saddens, or causes one's mood to change from happy to less happy. That word is rarely used in an accurate context.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
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  74. #21449
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    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    The adults who were cheering and filming it were cool with it obviously. But maybe not everyone. I can't imagine all the guys there were single, some would have girlfriends. I doubt those girls found it so fun. And maybe the sober barman saw it and was offended.
    In a pluralistic society, we have the right to be offended. We have many methods of expressing our offense or removing ourselves from the offending situation.

    All of these people have multiple options on dealing with their offense.
    None of them change my opinion that no victims = no problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    I should point out that such behaviour is a) very likely to be against the policy of the nightclub, and b) certainly illegal.
    Neither of which changes my opinion.
    If the employees of the bar wanted to stop that action or call the police, they had the power to do either or both of those things.

    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    So is it ok for me to smoke crack on the dancefloor, assuming everyone is cool with it? Who cares about policy and law, so long as everyone is cool with it, right? Well everyone except the staff who have to be there because they don't count.
    You ask me my opinion, then answer it for me, and go on to criticize my hypothetical answer. It reminds me of when wuf gets on a roll. Let's not make this an FTR thing.

    Anyway... When adults decide what they will and wont stand for, that's the precursor to a law. When adults decide to perform civil disobedience and break the laws which they find uncivil, that's cool with me.

    My answer to your crack smoking is the same as it is to your pot smoking. Yes, it's illegal, but you don't think it should be, so you perform civil disobedience and smoke it anyway. That's OK with me. If you're in a public place with only adults, and you all decide to be disobedient together, that's also OK with me as there are no victims.

    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    I asked if you think homosexuality is different in your eyes for a reason. If this were to happen between two gay men in a non-gay club, it would probably cause a fight. There would be idiots who would confront the gay men because it would be seen as extremely offensive, more so than guy/girl interaction. Now considering that it would be much more likely to cause a negative reaction from others, is it still acceptable for homosexual men to have oral sex in view of those who don't want to see such sexual behaviour?
    Yes. It's acceptable to me. It was not acceptable to the room, and they really should have taken better care to make sure they were in a room of more like-minded people before they attempted this performance. They will have to deal with the consequences of their actions, but I see the greater fault in widespread homophobia and not in the public sexual act.

    Clearly the fact that the other adults there will express their judgement on the situation is fundamentally important. If the performers stop when requested to stop, that should be the end of it. If the police are called, that's cool, too.

    The notion that people should be afraid of having fun because other people will be mad and even mean and violent about it is one of the legitimately depressing things about being a human.

    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Now we've determined that it's different when it's a gay couple, at least from the poit of view of acceptability from the other people in the vicinity, does that change your view?
    No.

    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    I can't say I care about this matter, I just have an opinion on it. And that opinion is it's sad.

    And you're being pedantic for pulling me up for saying "depressing". It's a common word here to describe something that saddens, or causes one's mood to change from happy to less happy. That word is rarely used in an accurate context.
    Sorry again. My bad.

    In my defense, I'm not talking to any random stranger, I'm talking to ongbonga, my long-time internet friend whom I think I know fairly well, given the circumstances of our friendship.
    Last edited by MadMojoMonkey; 06-13-2016 at 09:18 AM.
  75. #21450
    You ask me my opinion, then answer it for me, and go on to criticize my hypothetical answer. It reminds me of when wuf gets on a roll. Let's not make this an FTR thing.
    heh this made me laugh, because when I saw your post, I thought "holy fuck am I arguing with wuf here?"

    Then I thought actually it could be myself I'm arguing with, it seems both of us have taken a stance on something that doesn't matter in the slightest to us, and are arguing passionately like we fucking care!

    Anyway, basically you're saying it's cool for me to get my junk out and start beating off in an adult environment, whip out my crack pipe, and so long as those in my immediate vicinity haven't got a problem with it, then there's nothing for outsiders to concern themselves about. I like your position, to be honest. You're essentially promoting anarchy, instead of rule of law. Do what you want until it's a problem for someone else, then assess whether it's better to stop and apologise, or tell them to fuck off.

    There is a victim in this case, in fact there's many... the nightclub, and the town (ie local businesses). You might think it will result in more single men going there in the hope this girl is a regular preformer, but when it goes viral on the internet, local residents start shrieking on the internet, local councillors and police start putting their beaks in, and the club could face punishment, perhaps a fine, more security at their expense, or even having their license revoked. It's not unreasonable that the club were unaware of this incident until it had been posted on the internet. That might be from not having enough security, but I doubt the club are happy with the attention. There's also the damage that it does to the image of the town, which affects local businesses. Are families from neighbouring towns and villages more or less likely to do their shopping in Kidderminster when they read about this? We're under an hour away from cities to both the south and east, and there's a huge retail park less than half an hour away. Kidderminster is already up against it when it comes to attracting consumers.

    This isn't like smoking weed in public. It's not just about law, it's about decency. It's unreasonable to assume everyone in that club is going to be cool with this.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
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