Flop interpretations

[jackvance]

I was thinking about something. The situation is this: you raise preflop with let's say AQo, and the flop comes and misses you completely. Now we take two situations:
a) the preflop caller was a rather tight player
b) the preflop caller was a ather loose player

Occassionally I'll want to take the pot by c-betting, but I never really take into accoutn what kind of flops are better to do this with, which is definately a leak.. which is why I want to talk about that here.

If a tight player calls, I'm assuming he either has a big hand or a pp looking to set up. Should we be more likely to cbet against them to punish their set hunting?

A loose player on the other hand could have a very wide range, including crap like J7o etc. How does this change our tendency to cbet against them? (because no matter what the flop comes, they can hit it)

There are ofcourse many different kinds of flops, but I'll try to take some typical ones:

1) one high card.. example: K72r
=> good idea to cbet here to rep the K?
2) two high cards.. example: KJ2r
=> not that good idea to cbet here because it's more likely to have hit your opponent's high card?
3) common flop with all rags.. 943r
=> this one most likely missed both (although could have hit the loose player's crappy range), so if we bet we rep the rather unlikely overpair? Is it a good idea to cbet here or not?

2-tone flop:
All of the above can also be a flop with 2 of a flush.. this increases the likelyhood the flop "hit" our opponent giving him a flush draw right? So less likely to cbet then?

paired flop:
1) KK4
2) K44
3) 388
How do these flops change our cbetting behavior? They are more likely to have missed both of us.. making it a better idea for us to cbet or not?

Thoughts?

[sejje]

I cbet every flop mentioned vs a tight player. I cbet every flop period HU vs a tight player.

Is this loose player loose postflop? Is he aggressive? It matters, but typically I cbet against a loose player if the flop contains a face card, 1/2 or 2/3 pot, and give up if he calls and I don't pull ahead.

[TrAdam5]

Hey,
I haven't posted on this board in a while because I've been busy, but read it regularly and will start posting againg with more regularity.

Anyways, with regards to your question, there are obv. a lot of factors that go into c-betting. First, what has your opp. done in previous spots when he checks to you? Does he seem to check-raise alot, or does he generally lead out when he hits? Also, is ur opp. a calling station who can't fold a mid pair or second pair for his life? a tight caller? a floater? All these questions take time to figure out at ur table, and for this reason u normally c-bet a little less often until u get a feel for the players at ur table.

Secondly, what is your table image? If you have previously had a high PP at the table, and c-bet it on a raggy flop, and u show it down (or maybe even Show it if it doesn't reach SD if you want a really tight image), ur opp.'s will be much more likely to respect a c-bet on a raggy flop (i.e. 9 6 2 or something like that). However, if you have been caught c-betting with two high cards on a raggy board, you might want to be careful c-betting the next raggy flop u miss. Further, is ur image of a TAG or a LAG? If you have a LAGGY image, those middling flops look much scarier to ur opp.

So IMO, table images are the biggest key to when and how much to c-bet in a heads up postflop pot. Another factor that can help u tho in online poker that I feel is not talked about enough (it's almost ignored I feel) are click tells. At lower stakes there are a lot of people who will not pay any attention to the speed and length of their checks (I play at .5/1 and this is very true at least at this level). If you are real observant, alot of times u can pick up patterns on the speeed of the check (i.e. quick check for some players may mean they missed, for others it might be a slowplay attempt). Always watch for the speed of clicks, and the duration (on P-Stars at least, the clicking sound is of different durations depending how long one holds down the mouse (U can't multitable and pick up on this obv.). Sometimes, people will have obv. click tells which gives away the strength of their hand, and tells u whether or not to c-bet.

I know I still havent really addressed about exactly what flops to c-bet, but I feel that the "texture" of the flop and what to c-bet is very dependent on the extenuating circumstances of the table. There are some flops safer to c-bet than others obv. (i.e. if you raise with ak, geta caller, and flop comes 446, its safe to say ur probably ahead and can c-bet it). However, for the most part I think so much of when to c-bet on what flop depends on ur opp.'s tendencies. For instance, u say its not as good to bet a flop of kj2 rainbow because it is more likely to hit ur opp if u missed the flop. In a multiway pot, this is certainly true. But in a heads up pot, it really depends on ur opp. If your playing an opp. who is fairly tight, they are not likely to make a play at u on this flop (doesn't seem likely u'd make a move on it), and they very well may fold 2nd pair. Further, they may smooth call with jacks here, but then check to u again on turn, and using the info u already have u can decide if they have kings or not, and if they don't u can often push a tight opp. off second pair here and make extra $ from c-betting here as long as they don't hold a King. However, against a loose calling station opp. who can't fold second pair if his life depended on it, I might only c-bet here if I have a solid read/inclination he missed the flop.

I hope this helps. I know I didn't give the straight-up answer u would probably have liked, but c-betting is a very complex topic, and at least for me the texture of the flop is only part of a broader puzzle, and by itself is fairly useless.

[Miffed22001]

id be more interested in how our opponent reatcs with a mediocre/lukewarm hand to a second barell on a blank looking board. Id also want to know how they will play a flush/oesd draw to determine how much id c-bet against them
Thats on top of a range of hands i expect my opponent to have and their likelyhood to have hit any given flop of course.

eg if someone is calling my pfr's a lot with AJs/ATs type hands (dominated overs) then im much more likely to c-bet hard into rag flops than i am into a bunch of broadway's when i miss. If somone is calling with a small rnage that is basically only pps then im much more likely to take my free card, but ill c-bet/2 barell into these guys enough to force them to fold mid pps more often than they should versus my range and declare they have a set early on a smaller money street.