3b pot meh line

[moocow]

villain is a pretty big fish, running like 32/21 and folding very little to 3bets. Preflop is w/e I guess. OTT there are a lot of hands that can float the flop, any FD, OESD and gutterballs and maybe ace high. His bet when checked to OTT is 100% over a sample size of around 7-8 at the time. Thoughts on my line?

Poker Stars $1/$2 No Limit Hold'em - 8 players

UTG+1: $109.35
MP1: $208.50
MP2: $213.70
CO: $243.00
BTN: $110.75
Hero (SB): $200.00
BB: $373.10
UTG: $200.00

Pre Flop: ($3.00) Hero is SB with 9 A
3 folds, MP2 raises to $6, 2 folds, Hero raises to $20, 1 fold, MP2 calls $14

Flop: ($42.00) 5 J 9 (2 players)
Hero bets $26, MP2 calls $26

Turn: ($94.00) J (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets $56, Hero raises to $154 all in

[oskar]

pre I think fold>call>3b

Rest looks fine to me. As played c/shoving for protection is prolly best.
haters will hate.
Those are the perils of playing weak ranges oop against agressive villains. I think pre is pretty bad.

[Miffed22001]

hate every street - why 3bet a fish with a marginal holding OOP when if you 3bet strong hands hes not folding good hands anyway?

[Shotglass]

hate every street - why 3bet a fish with a marginal holding OOP when if you 3bet strong hands hes not folding good hands anyway?

^^^pretty much this

don't like to 3bet with marginal hands oop, really don't like to just call here either

Fold pre

[oskar]

What do you guys hate about flop/turn. I think we have established that pre is not good. I could see other options for post, but given our reads I don't mind cb, c/s. I certainly don't 'hate' it.

[lancelott_]

preflop vs this guy i dont like, unless he calls 3Bets a ton and plays super fit or fold postflop passive
postflop seems fine, esp if he bets a lot when checked to on the turn (floats)

[Razvan729]

depends on what villain flat's pre on the 3bet.

if he calls flop w/ Jx,9x,TT, 22-44,66-88,all Axcc,AT,AQ,KQcc,KTcc,QT,T8 then i dont mind betting b/f flop, cause we get called by a lot worse, but my problem is w/ turn, cause OP said he is betting 100% when checked to so we have to fire a second barrel and we for sure wount have a cheap SD vs this guy.
w/ this board and this villain we have to c/f pretty much half the deck like any K/Q/J/T/8/7 any flush, cause all hit villains floated flop range. i cant see a good 2nd barrel card on turn vs this guy except A/9.

as played, shoving turn seems thin since he only needs 25% equity vs our range to call that shove and we need 50% vs his calling range or 50% FE which to be honest i dont think we have.

vs this guy i like a fold pre, as played pre b/f flop, as played flop c/f turn > c/c turn >>> CRAI turn.

i may be totally off here since this is all out of my league but this is the way i see the hand, sorry if i said stupid things and pls if you have the time what is wrong in my hand analyze

[Shotglass]

What do you guys hate about flop/turn. I think we have established that pre is not good. I could see other options for post, but given our reads I don't mind cb, c/s. I certainly don't 'hate' it.

I hate it that the sample is only 7-8 hands

villain is a pretty big fish, running like 32/21 and folding very little to 3bets....His bet when checked to OTT is 100% over a sample size of around 7-8 at the time. Thoughts on my line?

If that is the total sample size and not just for hands that have gotten to the turn then what I get from this is that we've seen 8-ish hands with him. He played 2 hands and was the pfr in 1, called pre in the other, and bet the turn on both. BFD. This is not a pot that we want to be in unless he has shown down some serious garbage in those two hands.

[oskar]

reading comprehension problems itt.
He obviously means bet when checked to on the turn over 7 hands, not 7 hands total... cos that's what he said. Why would he even bother mention anything with 7 hands of history... Do we automatically assume that every new poster to the forum is braindead now?
My apologies to op if you actually only have 7-8 hands on villain, lol.

[Nekrogovner]

I feel like checkraising the flop, since we already spewed preflop.

[The Edlets]

I agree that preflop is bad but I would call non the less. I would c/c on the flop to let him bet air and c/r looks good on the turn.

[Micro2Macro]

I feel like checkraising the flop, since we already spewed preflop.

lol i actually kinda like this

[pocketfours]

I think pre is just fine.

[ZwiFT]

c/jamming flop is so much better than c/jamming turn

[bikes]

think my line here is optimal against someone who floats a lot and bets the turn when i check

[ZwiFT]

people just dont float and bet turn with nothing, even if they do its a really small part of their range, and villain got correct odds to call with about any hand he bets turn with

[Renton]

people just dont float and bet turn with nothing, even if they do its a really small part of their range, and villain got correct odds to call with about any hand he bets turn with

What, of course they do. And who cares if he gets correct odds to call, we still exploit him severely by getting it in on the turn with 80% pot equity.




I would probably play it the way you played it postflop, but betting the turn is also fine, c/ring the flop is terrible. Pre is certainly +ev, but I prefer calling or making it like 12.

[Shotglass]

people just dont float and bet turn with nothing

Sure do.

[aka_red]

I would probably play it the way you played it postflop, but betting the turn is also fine, c/ring the flop is terrible. Pre is certainly +ev, but I prefer calling or making it like 12.

+1

[wakeup]

shouldnt we c/c the turn and c/c a lot of rivers? only reason to shove is to collect the dead money but his range is pretty weak on the flop, and he seems aggressive so will prob bet rivers

[aka_red]

i doubt hes going to stick it in with a bluff when hes got like half a psb left

[rpm]

i'm interested to know why "C/ship flop > C/shove turn" has been advocated by someone against an opponent who seems to be very floaty on the flop, and who is likely (i'm assuming, based on bikes' stats on "bet turn when checked to") to try and steal the pot on the turn. i mean, his flop calling range is probably pretty weak. and the turn card only acts to weaken that range, and we expect him to be far more aggressive in position on the turn vs a check than on the flop vs a standard Cbet.

[BankItDrew]

Preflop is fine. We have a suited ace against a donk probably heads up.

Flop is standard and check raising is silly because he's calling with so many hands and then the turn decision sucks.

As played, i love it all. The pot is already $200 after our turn call, so let's just get it in. If he has a jack and we call, he's shipping river and we can't fold at that point. Check shoving gets all of that other bs out of there and there's no way he doesn't make the right play when he calls turn without a jack. I think hands > a pair of jacks doesn't play it like this anyways

[BankItDrew]

i'm interested to know why "C/shipS flop > C/shove turn" has been advocated by someone against an opponent who seems to be very floaty on the flop.

Our equity drastically changed in one way or another on this turn card. Villain makes a mistake calling our shove on the turn but the mistake is much smaller and Possibly not a mistake when calling our check shove on the flop.