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AKs UTG vs passive SB

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  1. #1

    Default AKs UTG vs passive SB

    Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (7 handed) - Full Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

    BB ($2.70)
    Hero (UTG) ($5.05)
    MP1 ($5)
    MP2 ($5.05)
    CO ($4)
    Button ($6.72)
    SB ($4.95)

    Preflop: Hero is UTG with K, A
    Hero bets $0.15, 4 folds, SB calls $0.13, BB calls $0.10

    Flop: ($0.45) 6, 9, A (3 players)
    SB bets $0.45, BB calls $0.45, Hero raises to $1.50, SB raises to $4.80 (All-In), 1 fold, Hero folds

    Total pot: $3.90 | Rake: $0.26


    Opponent is very passive, 18/2, but this is only over 36 hands. Donk bet on flop suggests strength. Hands that he would flat pre that beat me are A6s, A9s, 99, 66 though he is passive so there is maybe an argument to include AA in his range. He suddenly got very happy to stack off which is why I folded, this could have been with AK, AQ, AJ, AT but I reckon these would c/f rather than shove to a re-raise. The question is then was this a bad re-raise on the flop?

    The answer must certainly depend on the mediocre to monster ratio of his range on the flop, the shove suggests that I walked into the monster part. So then the question is would he make a pot size bet with his Ax hands on the flop?

    I am fairly sure making the fold after the shove was the best move. Would you have called or flatted? As far as acting after the initial flop raise folding was not an option I considered as I could still have the best hand and I did not want to go three way to the turn and let people draw so I resolved to raise. I am just scratching my head trying to figure out if this bet was +EV or -EV. Maybe I am being too results oriented.

    I would like to think he is a competent player and would not shove an Ax hand but you never know... ahhh the frustration of the micros...

    Thanks in advance!
  2. #2
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    if hes in fact a passive nit, this is a std fold.


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  3. #3
    Folding to the shove is definitely your best play. As far as the flop bet I'd probably call w/o bb as i don't expect him to be leading draws here very much. With the flatter though its probably a good raise.

    Preflop stop raising 3x in micros from EP IMO. People are calling 4x with the same range and our range is much tighter than theirs so why not get more in PF. We have positional disadvantage so smaller SPR is good for us.
  4. #4
    supa's Avatar
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    I wouldn't consider an 18/2 competent.

    Defo open utg for more. I open ep 4x, mp 3.5x and lp 3x. If I know the blinds won't raise with anything but the goods I'll 2.5x or even min raise from the button.

    I think raising the flop is right, otherwise we're giving great odds to any draws. We're way behind when sb shoves.

    Don't post results.
    “Right thoughts produce right actions and right actions produce work which will be a material reflection for others to see of the serenity at the center of it all”

    Put hero on a goddamn range part II- The 6max years

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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by supahaole View Post
    I wouldn't consider an 18/2 competent.
    Very good point but I still think his shove tells me he has the goods, would have to be a bit braindead otherwise - that's what's frustrating at the micros - you never know.

    Quote Originally Posted by supahaole View Post
    Defo open utg for more. I open ep 4x, mp 3.5x and lp 3x. If I know the blinds won't raise with anything but the goods I'll 2.5x or even min raise from the button.
    This is interesting and I will definitely consider it. Mr. Bucket said something similar too and it makes sense.


    Quote Originally Posted by supahaole View Post
    I think raising the flop is right, otherwise we're giving great odds to any draws. We're way behind when sb shoves.
    I am thinking this the more I mull this hand over, I think flatting and folding are vastly inferior options.

    Quote Originally Posted by supahaole View Post
    Don't post results.
    Do you count the fact that I folded as a result?


    Thanks for the input guys!

    supahaole I will be reading your operation, the first post is very interesting
  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by frjd2 View Post

    Do you count the fact that I folded as a result?
    yes.

    i fold here. You have a pretty limited read but your saying he's passive which means you don't call all ins with TPTK because all the hands he can have that you beat he doesnt shove.

    if your read isnt good enough to back up this theory do you want to play for stacks with a single pair hand and no read?
  7. #7
    supa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frjd2 View Post
    Do you count the fact that I folded as a result?
    Yeah, best explanation for why is here http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...ng-162741.html

    Thanks for the interest in the operation but I slacked off on it before the DoJ took my right to play and it's been dead ever since. I do value any input or questions so posting in that thread may get me out of my slump and back to work on it.
    “Right thoughts produce right actions and right actions produce work which will be a material reflection for others to see of the serenity at the center of it all”

    Put hero on a goddamn range part II- The 6max years

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  8. #8
    bikes's Avatar
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    raising then folding here is stupid

    ?wut
  9. #9
    supa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikes View Post
    raising then folding here is stupid
    Inorite? But what else can you do? We're beat mostly always. Sigh call?

    Flatting sucks, folding to the donk is horrible, what other choice is there?
    “Right thoughts produce right actions and right actions produce work which will be a material reflection for others to see of the serenity at the center of it all”

    Put hero on a goddamn range part II- The 6max years

    Quote Originally Posted by d0zer View Post
    start using your brain more and vagina less

    Quote Originally Posted by kingnat View Post
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  10. #10
    rpm's Avatar
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    i think i prefer flatting flop and re-evaluating turn. SB seems extremely passive so he probably doesn't have a whole heap of hands in his range when he just PSB donks that we beat (and his passivity also means he is unlikely to hold flush draws), so i want to keep his range as wide as possible. i realise that we then give any flush draws BB may have a chance to "get there", but i don't really like raising an already quite strong range with a strong, but not nutted hand. especially if we plan to fold to a shove. (which i think will happen a lot of the time when we raise). it just seems to cause SB to fold out the few combos he might have in his range that we actually do OK against.

    so basically, i prefer flatting the flop. and i'm not raising the flop unless i think it's +EV to stack off against an SB shove range (so i guess that means the worst hand i raise this flop with is 66)

    edit: A9 has >50% vs A6,A9,66,99,AA - so that would be the bottom of my flop raising range
    Last edited by rpm; 05-04-2011 at 11:53 PM.
  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by rpm View Post
    i think i prefer flatting flop and re-evaluating turn. SB seems extremely passive so he probably doesn't have a whole heap of hands in his range when he just PSB donks that we beat (and his passivity also means he is unlikely to hold flush draws), so i want to keep his range as wide as possible. i realise that we then give any flush draws BB may have a chance to "get there", but i don't really like raising an already quite strong range with a strong, but not nutted hand. especially if we plan to fold to a shove. (which i think will happen a lot of the time when we raise). it just seems to cause SB to fold out the few combos he might have in his range that we actually do OK against.
    range
    im not saying flatting flop is bad, but im unsure what were doing on the turn if sb barrels and bb calls... (assuming we shouldnt be raising turn if were not raising this flop) so we just call (depending on sizing i guess), letting it go 3 way to the river, which i dont like.
    i thnik bikes also disagrees with me...

    OP, do you have reads on bb?
    Last edited by thelorax; 05-05-2011 at 01:17 AM.


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  12. #12
    Razvan729's Avatar
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    i'd just call, we are in bad shape vs sets/2pair and flippping Ahxh and by raising we're folding weaker TP from which we get value. i'd probably fold to an heart turn and/or on another psb on turn unless i get Kc
    All posts are just my own opinion about a hand or a general situation... not advices on how you should play...
  13. #13
    Call flop as raising this hand when a passive guy pots it into 2 people (one of whom is a UTG raiser) on this board is too thin. Only BB has draws here (87s, hearts). Also raise/folding wastes our hands value and puts us in a tricky spot if he shoves (closer than you think imo).

    Seeing a turn in position is pretty good because as their ranges should be very well defined.
  14. #14
    bikes's Avatar
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    you should only raise this flop if you plan on calling it off. which i would after i raised. and i would still probably raise here against most people at these stakes.

    ?wut
  15. #15
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    i could be way off base here...
    but at these stakes villain will prob call a flop raise with dominated TP's and all draws.
    that being said, his 4b shoving range will prettymuch only contain hands that have us crushed.

    what kind of stack off range are you giving villain bikes?
    you think hes doing this with enough AQ and AJ to make this a call?


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