Your Advice for a very large field

[SinkieCon]

So the MM Main Event is heading our way at 19:30 nearly 60k people will be playing it, I've never played in a such a large event before. Can anyone give me any advice on how to play in such a large event?

Many thanks

[Renton]

Pretty much avoid them unless its purely for fun. They have higher ROI than smaller field tournaments but the variance is so severe that a casual player could run bad at them for several lifetimes.

As far as playing them just play them like any other tourney. Sometimes the structure will make the stacks really short when the tournament has hours to go, so you might have to adjust in that case, but its not much different than being shortstacked at the end of a multi table sng.

[SinkieCon]

Thank you Renton, I have been thinking of un registering from the event since there will be so many players, I managed to get in it for free through a freeplay sat. I was thinking of grinding the 50c 180 mans instead to start a bankroll again, as I wasted my last one for being on tilt lol. thanks for your advice

[OngBonga]

I'm in the main but I'll just treat it the same as any other tourney. I'm not interested in average stack, I'm interested in the blind level and my stack. So long as I'm 30bb+, I'm comfortable and can play a little on the loose aggressive side. Between 20-30bb I'm playing tight aggressive. 10-20bb I'm looking to double up with a tight range, under 10bb I'm looking to double up with a wide range.

I don't play these all that often. I play the storm sometimes but the huge field of idiots annoys me. But this is pretty much the biggest game of the year I can comfortably afford, so why wouldn't I play it? It's an annual game for me and as such it's a luxury that I don't place a great deal of faith in.

[SinkieCon]

Yes I don't play these much often as well just lucky enough to get the chance to do it, though against that amount of players I might not play.

[dombo]

How did you do?

[OngBonga]

I was doing ok in the ME until AA < JJ aipf. I fucked the storm up, can't remember what I did now but it was stupid.

[SinkieCon]

I got knocked out just after the late reg closed , I had AA on the BTN UTG raised then MP1 re raised all in I re shoved my 25k stack and UTG called, KKvsQQvs AA, King hit on the turn sadly, it was for at least 80k pot

[dombo]

Seems we all had a very ul spot there , hope you both at least enjoyed the ride

Managed to make a top1000 , but lost a huge pot like 2 hours before with AA vs QQ allin pf buy an Q on flop splashed my dreams. Never fully recovered from that and also was my last good hand.

[joker131]

it hits u hard playing for so long AA vKK, QQ. its the only hand AA can get away from in bb or sb AA can be a fold with 2 or 3 shoves before u play your hand but its hard to fold pre flop. playing thease mtt takes some patience and going out with 80k chips is hard to take

[OngBonga]

What? How can AA ever be a fold pf in a standard game of poker? Only time I would even consider laying it down pre is it we're playing a satellite and we're at bubble with a big enough stack to make the cut. But then we might as well just sit out.

I was delighted to bust out of the ME AA vs JJ aipf, simply because 4 in 5 times I'm going to have a really nice stack.

If there's 2+ shoves before us, all the better, because we're favourite to win a HUGE pot.

AA is just too far ahead of everything pf to fold pre in NLHE.

[chemist]

That is the thing about large fields,
even playing solid and getting it in good will probably be beaten at some point.
A 4 in 5 time win doesn't really help when it happens 20 or 30 times in the tournament.
So just have to hope you can beat the odds.

[PokerKing]

You need to be aggressive, and win a lot of coin flips.

[Poker Orifice]

Get plenty of rest & maybe prepare some quick meals in advance (stuff you can throw in the microwave, etc.). Make sure you don't have anyother committments for many hours. As you go deep in a large-field tournament, time just seems to go faster & faster to the point of losing track of whether it's the 4th or 5th break you're on.

I played a few this morning after getting less than 3hrs. sleep & did the sh1ts.

[OngBonga]

That is the thing about large fields,
even playing solid and getting it in good will probably be beaten at some point.
A 4 in 5 time win doesn't really help when it happens 20 or 30 times in the tournament.
So just have to hope you can beat the odds.

This is why we play to go deep, because squeezing past the bubble is worth 2BI over several hours, while making final table is worth lots of BI over a few more hours. We're trying to build a stack to go as deep as possible, not trying to nurse our stack to have a short stack when bubble bursts. Squeezing into the cash should be considered slightly better than busting out early and lots better than bubbling, but not our aim. Our aim is build a stack, go deep. Our best chance of doing that is to get aipf in 80-20 situations, it doesn't get any better really. That or get the nuts often and hope to get paid off. Good luck if that's your strategy.

[Keith]

i find it astounding that people who don't regularly participate in hand analysis threads manage to have completely idiotic theories about how to play. who would have thought it .

[chemist]

Our best chance of doing that is to get aipf in 80-20 situations, it doesn't get any better really.

I am not disputing that.
Just pointing out the mathematics of it, that if you are All In 80:20 Five times you are mathemetically due to win 4 times but also lose one.
And if you did it 20 times you should expect to lose 5 times.
Which would be profitable in a cash game or over the course of 20 tournaments.
But in a single tournament if you lose an All In once it is over.
The point is really just about managing expectations, that even following the best advice, the chances of reaching the final table as fields get larger is reduced because a player would need to be All In more times than is probalistically survivable.
So it is necessary to beat the odds in a single tournament or play enough tournaments to get the proper odds.

[OngBonga]

I am not disputing that.
Just pointing out the mathematics of it, that if you are All In 80:20 Five times you are mathemetically due to win 4 times but also lose one.
And if you did it 20 times you should expect to lose 5 times.
Which would be profitable in a cash game or over the course of 20 tournaments.
But in a single tournament if you lose an All In once it is over.
The point is really just about managing expectations, that even following the best advice, the chances of reaching the final table as fields get larger is reduced because a player would need to be All In more times than is probalistically survivable.
So it is necessary to beat the odds in a single tournament or play enough tournaments to get the proper odds.

This is a good post. You nail the point. The expectation cannot be placed upon one single tournament. You have to think about how you're going to perform over 100 tournaments. If we're talking storm, that's $1100 spent on BI, so we need to win more than that for it to be profitable. That's why $18 or whatever is not worth aiming for, we shouldn't care if we bubble with AA because we're not trying to win $18, we're trying to get deep enough to win $100's and beyond. If we squeezed past bubble then busted in every storm in 100 games, we'd make a profit of something like $600, wheras if we make one final table and bust out of the other 99 in the first hour, we make a lot more.

So yeah in one game we're trying to fight the odds, but over 100 we're trying to manipulate the odds.

[Pascal]

it hits u hard playing for so long AA vKK, QQ. its the only hand AA can get away from in bb or sb AA can be a fold with 2 or 3 shoves before u play your hand but its hard to fold pre flop. playing thease mtt takes some patience and going out with 80k chips is hard to take

Please ignore this post entirely, never fold AA.

Big field MTTs are simple. Get in as many profitable spot (e.g. 55% v 45% equity) as possible in each tournament. Play a LOT of tournaments. Don't complain about variance.

[Lukie]

i find it astounding that people who don't regularly participate in hand analysis threads manage to have completely idiotic theories about how to play. who would have thought it .

After having read poker forums for many years, I have found that even those who do regularly participate in hand analysis sometimes manage to have completely idiotic theories about how to play.

But yeah, folding aces in the situation described above is moronic. Having a couple all-ins in front of you is a dream situation with aces.

Of course, there are some oddly specific situations where it actually is correct to fold aces pre, but most people will never encounter one. You usually find them as hypothetical examples because they are so rare. Something like you are in a tournament, 5 left, with top 3 places paying equal (e.g. buyin into larger tournament), you have 2nd biggest chip stacks, a bunch of all-ins in front of you including the big stack, yeah depending on the exact specifics it might be best to just fold everything. Doesn't apply here.