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Math Test Poker; Anti-FPS Idea

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  1. #1
    spoonitnow's Avatar
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    Default Math Test Poker; Anti-FPS Idea

    Here's a different approach to thinking about poker for you to think on that might help for those who find themselves "mixing it up" without knowing why they're mixing or which spoon to use to mix (pun intended).

    If you were taking a math test, and one of the problems is 24 x 13, you know a fairly quickly way to figure out the correct answer, so you answer it and go on to the next problem. Now suppose instead you knew a long and complicated way to figure out the problem that looked fun on paper because it took up more space and looked harder, except you weren't sure if you were getting the right answer or not. Which would you choose?

    The first approach to the math problem is relatively simple, relatively easy, and relatively quick, but also has good accuracy -- much like what people consider to be "ABC poker". The second approach to the math problem is more complicated than necessary, harder than necessary, slower and more stressful to work through, and also has a lower accuracy -- much like "mixing it up" when you don't know what you're mixing up or why you're mixing.

    Each poker session is a test, and each individual decision is a question. You're given information that can be used on each question if you want it, but you don't always need all of the information available to answer a specific question. When you answer questions right, you make money, and when you answer questions wrong, you lose money.

    As an example, there's a lot of information missing in the following scenario that could change your answer, but if you don't know what the information means, you don't know how to use it: Suppose an EP player limps, it's folded to the CO who raises to 5x, and you have Q9s on the button. What is your play? This is like a math problem where you don't have enough information to answer the question.

    If the original limper likes to limp/raise a lot, you're more likely to fold. If the original limper likes to limp/fold a lot and CO likes to isolate limpers a lot and doesn't 4-bet bluff much, you're more likely to consider a 3-bet bluff. If you're really deep-stacked and CO pays off hands with his entire stack with any piece of the flop, you'd be more likely to call. But in the absence of any of this information [and the ability to understand what it means in terms of EV] then it's just a fold.

    Now obviously the goal is to keep pressing on and learn what different pieces of information mean and so on, but you shouldn't get too far ahead of yourself. If you don't understand pot-odds, then 5-bet bluff shoving over people with A2s is going to be too far over your head because you don't have the necessary foundation. It's just like math class -- you don't learn to do long division before you learn to add.
  2. #2
    Stacks's Avatar
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    Sticky

    [edit] And also make this mandatory reading for all new players coming to FTR.
  3. #3
    spoonitnow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XxStacksxX
    Sticky

    [edit] And also make this mandatory reading for all new players coming to FTR.
    Nah, this is just a random thought that occurred to me.
  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by XxStacksxX
    Sticky

    [edit] And also make this mandatory reading for all new players coming to FTR.
    I agree with the sticky part. However, I don't think most newcomers will understand that just yet. It's more like a "I Think I'm good, but having a hard time beating the micro's" manditory read. IMO anyway. Good stuff spoon. as always.
  5. #5
    Hmmm, let's see.
    24 X 13...
    24 =10+10+4 and
    13=10+3
    By substitution and using the distrbutive property...
    (10+10+4) (10 +3) =(10x10) + (10x3) +(10x10) +(10x3) + (4x10) + (4x3) = 100+30+100+30++40+12=200+60+40+12=200+100+12=300+1 2=312
    That was pretty easy

    I've heard many people say that poker isn't Rocket Science. My problem is that I can do Rocket Science but can't do poker.

    I'm just happy that I can watch "Rounders" on TV and finally understand what they are talking about.
  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Sasquach991
    Hmmm, let's see.
    24 X 13...
    24 =10+10+4 and
    13=10+3
    By substitution and using the distrbutive property...
    (10+10+4) (10 +3) =(10x10) + (10x3) +(10x10) +(10x3) + (4x10) + (4x3) = 100+30+100+30++40+12=200+60+40+12=200+100+12=300+1 2=312
    That was pretty easy

    I've heard many people say that poker isn't Rocket Science. My problem is that I can do Rocket Science but can't do poker.

    I'm just happy that I can watch "Rounders" on TV and finally understand what they are talking about.
    WTF is substitution and the distributive property??

    Too long and complicated for me. How about this:
    24 x 10 = 240
    24 x 3 = 72
    240 + 72 = 312

    Pretty simple I'd say. Now if I could just learn how to play poker ...
  7. #7
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    Tony, his post is obviously a level
  8. #8
    JKDS's Avatar
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    well, say we have a region R that is 23 by 13. Then we know that the area is equal to the integral over R dA. This can be rearranged to make a double integral with the outer limits from 0 to 23 and the inner limits from 0 to 13. Then the inside (which was 1dA) becomes 1dxdy. Integrating first with respect to x, and evaluating at the limits, we get 13-0=13. Then we are left with the integral from 0 to 23 of 13dy. well, this is just 13y, now evaluated from 0 to 23, we get 13*(23-0) = 13*23...o shit....
  9. #9
    Ragnar4's Avatar
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    ok. I get what you're getting at spoon.

    But when every body tells me to quit being so darn fancy, and play ABC poker. I honestly couldn't tell you what "ABC Poker is" other than "Bet when I'm ahead, and check/fold when I'm behind."

    No-ones gone through and said "This is ABC poker to a T," and defined for me what it is.
    The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which unskilled individuals suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly rating their ability much higher than average. This bias is attributed to a metacognitive inability of the unskilled to recognize their mistakes
  10. #10
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    we know that 15 * 25 is 15 * 15 + 15 * 10 so it's 375

    we have to minus out 15,14, to get 23x15; then we minus out 23,24 to get 23x13
    47 + 29 = 50 + 30 - 2 = 76
    375 - 76 = 300 - 1 = 299
  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ragnar4
    ok. I get what you're getting at spoon.

    But when every body tells me to quit being so darn fancy, and play ABC poker. I honestly couldn't tell you what "ABC Poker is" other than "Bet when I'm ahead, and check/fold when I'm behind."

    No-ones gone through and said "This is ABC poker to a T," and defined for me what it is.
    You have read Renton's "169 Hand Guides" amirite? That does a rather good job of explaining ABC poker. Also, if you can somehow get your hands on "To Nit or Not to Nit" by DJ Sensei, that would help alot. It's a series of videos (3 I think). It's a DeucesCracked video. It does a great job explaining ABC poker.
  12. #12
    bjsaust's Avatar
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    I thought this was getting to answering the easy questions first and coming back to the hard ones later and wondered how the hell you were going to relate that to poker.

    This made much more sense.
    Just dipping my toes back in.
  13. #13
    spoonitnow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKDS
    well, say we have a region R that is 23 by 13. Then we know that the area is equal to the integral over R dA. This can be rearranged to make a double integral with the outer limits from 0 to 23 and the inner limits from 0 to 13. Then the inside (which was 1dA) becomes 1dxdy. Integrating first with respect to x, and evaluating at the limits, we get 13-0=13. Then we are left with the integral from 0 to 23 of 13dy. well, this is just 13y, now evaluated from 0 to 23, we get 13*(23-0) = 13*23...o shit....
    24*

    Quote Originally Posted by Ragnar4
    ok. I get what you're getting at spoon.

    But when every body tells me to quit being so darn fancy, and play ABC poker. I honestly couldn't tell you what "ABC Poker is" other than "Bet when I'm ahead, and check/fold when I'm behind."

    No-ones gone through and said "This is ABC poker to a T," and defined for me what it is.
    It's not so much about playing ABC poker as it is about not doing things if you don't know why you're doing them and if you don't know for sure that they're +EV.

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