The evolution from SNGs to MTTs

[Kijjo]

Alright, I've been meaning to start my first blog for a while. I've also been meaning to start a new challenge for myself for a while. About 3 weeks ago my laptop died and along with it my PT3 info. So this presents a perfect time for me to start over with a clean slate so to speak and embark on a challenge.
I've been a SNGer since the beginning. I mainly stuck to 9 player tables, working my way from $0 up to playing $11 with a roll of ~$250. I've tried the switch to cash and it's just not for me. I tried several times, several different methods. In the end I was profitable at the 25NL tables, but grinding was just no FUN!
So I've been goofing around playing SNGs, kinda going nowhere, just trying to challenge myself to improve my game.
Recently my work situation has changed as well, which opens up the possibility for me to play larger fields. I used to only have 1-2 hrs a night to play consistently, which really limited me to playing single table or maybe 18 player turbos. Now I have a few nights like that, but sometimes as much as 4 hrs.
So I withdrew my bankroll down to $60.
My main goal is to develop into a better large field player. Whenever I have the time, I'm going to be playing 90 player and 45 player turbos. At the $1 level. When I'm short on time, I'll play 9 player tables.
My bankroll strategy to begin is to play only $1 games of each of these field sizes. If my roll is over 20 buy-ins for the next 9 player level, I will move up with those. If my roll is over 50 buy-ins for the next 45T and 90T levels, I'll move up with those as well as long as I'm having decent results. (For example if I'm making all my $ at single tables and running a horrible ROI on the larger fields, I'll need to improve, that's the whole point of this challenge!)
So for example, starting at $60 I'll play anything that's $1. After $68 or more, I will feel free to switch to $3.40 single table games, but stick to the $1.10 45T's and 90T's until hitting $110, when I could attempt the $2.20 180T's.

[Kijjo]

Oops, clicked enter I guess and posted before I was quite done. Anyways, I may post a few hands here or there, but that won't be my main objective. My main goal is to work to improve to a successful MTTer. Playing the single tables will hopefully help stabilize my bankroll somewhat and feed my poker cravings when I'm not able to spend multiple hours at a given time.
So, since setting out to do this, I've played 69 tourneys. Here's the breakdown:
$1.20 9 player - 36 tourneys, profit $9.90, ROI 23%, ITM 44%
$1.10 45 turbos - 15 tourneys, profit $4.50, ROI 27%, ITM, 13%
$1.10 90 turbos - 14 tourneys, profit $-9.96, ROI -65%, ITM 14%
$3.40 9 player - 3 tourneys, profit $3.30, ROI 32%, ITM 67%
$3.40 10 turbo - 1 tourney, profit $11.60, ROI 341%, ITM 100%

Bankroll: $85.78
If the numbers don't quite add up, I've donked around with 2NL cash for a few mins here and there and won a few bucks.
So my first impressions after trying the 90T's is that I'm surprised I haven't hit a big finish yet. I've hit a couple just inside the bubble and a few just outside the bubble. I'm glad that playing at this low level I can actually feel free to make the correct plays around the bubble without feeling like I HAVE to cash. It still sucks to lose after you've been in this tourney for almost 2 hrs and you go out 16th or something. But when I'm playing for a buck, it's not like I'm going to be happy with making $2.20 (which is just doubling your buy-in). You really have to hit about 5th place ($6.30) or higher before it's meaningful to your bankroll.

[Im_new]

Yo, good luck to you man. I did the transition to larger fields back in December. The 45-mans all the way up to $27 are pretty soft, so it shouldn't take you too much time if you're focused and dedicated to adapting.

And never be discouraged. Last October I withdrew all of my Pstars money (2-3K, I think) and started over with $30 bucks. I decided to attack the 45-mans and built to 1k in three weeks playing 10-11 hours a week. I'm saying this because at one point I almost aborted my mission due to frustration. Stick with it and keep us updated.

Happy gaming.

[CBAT]

14 tournaments at a 90man tournament is a VERY small sample. You won't start seeing anything relative to your true ROI until you play at least well into hundreds of 90man SnGs.

So keep plugging away and you'll hit some big cashes.

[Kijjo]

Thanks for the comments guys. Yeah, I hear what you're saying about small sample size. I know that with my head CBAT, I was speaking more from the heart I guess without actually looking at the numbers. I'm a spoiled single-tabler who's used to cashing 44% of the time and winning about 18% of the time.
So Imnew, how many tables you running? Currently I only go 4-6. Also, been wondering, how do guys run let's say 16 tables at a certain level, like say 16 tables $12 180 mans? At just the $1 level it takes about 15-20 mins for one to fill up! (At least at Midnight CST.) When a guy says he's doing that, is he really playing all kinds of stuff UP TO that level? Like some 45s, some 90s, maybe some 180's the next level down, etc?

[Im_new]

The $12 180s take about 5-8 mins to fill up when there are ~200,000 players online. The 45s fill up even faster. Around 3-7 o'clock there are usually quicker load times.

Yeah, that's exactly what I run. 16 tables, mixing in $12 180s and $12/$27 45s. Right now, I'm running so bad that I wanna drop down though I know that I don't need to.

[Kijjo]

Finally got to play some more 45's today (only 8). Been working more than expected. Think this weekend I'll get in some 90's and I should get in some of both during the next work week. My roi is + for 45's over 23 games, but barely. (I know 23 games is a drop in the bucket). The thing is after the good night that I had playing $3 10 player turbos, I'm closing in on the figure I need to start playing the large field $2.20's. I guess I'll probably go ahead and do it when I've got the $, but I was anticipating playing more large tourneys before moving up, not sure I've improved very much at them (which was the point of moving down in bankroll, to kind of build up my ability as I move through the levels so that I'm not earning $ with single tables while giving it away in MTTs).
I guess we'll see how the next few nights go.

[Kijjo]

Well, landed a 4th in a 90T tonight. At least I was within striking distance. Feels good to hit a solid final table instead of just squeaking into the $ in those. My roi on those is still negative, but not by much. I guess that helps my confidence level somewhat.
I'm finding the biggest difference is that in single table games you can run squeaky tight 'til the blinds get huge and then make +EV shoves and get good results over the long haul. Meaning, probably the weakest part of my game is the middle section when it comes to MTTs. I need to be able to generate more pots here and there, I can't simply let the blinds catch me over and over and play push/fold for so long. I think I also need to be mindful to try more moves when the table is short - like 6/7 players, than when it's full. This seems obvious, but when you've been in a game for a while, it's easy to get lazy and stop focussing on small things like that.

[scfc_andy15]

Good luck, just out of interest are you just going to be playing MTT SnG's or larger tournaments aswell? Like the daily dollar on full tilt?

[Kijjo]

Good question - well my goal is to develop into a solid MTTer and that in the end I'll be comfortable playing any size field. At the time I started this year, I've always felt I had a solid chance to cash in large large fields, but I think the highest I'd ever finished in a 1k+ player tourney was like 40th-50th. That's a lot of time invested with generally just doubling your buy-in when you cash. Not very good for your EV.
Because of my schedule, unless my job changes (which is a possibility in the not-so-distant future) I won't be able to ever play a high % of regular MTTs because of the amount of time you need to play them to the end. But eventually I do hope to be able to pick say Saturday night or Sunday night and have one night a week that I play a few of them each week, while during the other nights of the week doing 90s and 180s.

[Kijjo]

Time for an update.
I'd started doing better at the larger fields and feeling better about all that, and was actually up to $109 and change having decided that starting at $110 I'd switch to $5.50 stt's and $2.20 large sngs. Well I've had three straight days of losing sessions. I don't think my play has changed much, I'm definitely not tilting. Tonight I was the bubble boy in 3 out of 10 tourneys. I've got the bubble virus! No seriously though, in a 45T I was in 1st with 8 people left (7 places pay). I made what I believe was solid moves, and eventually ended up 8th. In another I was 4th out of 9 at the final table with 3 micro stacks - like between 1k and 2k with the blinds around 600/1200. Imagine my shock when after about 3 orbits, I'm the one that goes out because these guys keep flipping and livin'?!!? Ah well. I'll review those FT's tomorrow. Sounds like I'm steamed, but I'm really not, just disappointed because my graph was looking so pretty and now it looks like a bit of a cliff.
I am pleased with myself though for fighting the urge to load up a full night session of single tables. I feel like if I did that I'd bounce back quickly, but that's not the main goal of this operation. So since I had several hours tonight, I played 3 90T's and 7 45T's.

So, stat-wise,
March was 138 tourneys, ROI 11.45%, ITM 28%
Bankroll $92.45

[Kijjo]

Well I kinda put this op on "pause" to goof around with Take2 on FT and try a little experiment. Depending on how that goes, I may be spending more time playing cash tables on there in the future than playing tourneys/sngs on stars, but I'll always enjoy the games more.
So I'm posting today because finally after playing 27 90T's, I finally took one down. The highest finish I had up until now in one of these was a 4th, and while that felt good, this feels like getting a monkey off my back. I know it's just one game, but I felt like I played well (not perfectly ofcourse) and didn't have to get lucky.
I'm currently sucking it up hard at the 45T's (I've played a higher # of those too), but I'm sure I'll get those going again eventually.

[drmcboy]

and didn't have to get lucky.

derail this line of thinking pronto. Running good is more than sucking out. Yes, you got very lucky. If you start thinking you can outplay 90 people in anything, let alone a lolturboament, you're putting up the flag on the tilt ship.

[Kijjo]

Guess you're right. Good post.

[Kijjo]

Update:
Graph at the end of April - this includes everything since the beginning...

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Stats divided by buy-in and field size:

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So at the end of April, 281 tourneys, ROI 5.14%, ITM 29%
Bankroll $93.99

So, as stated before, I kind of put this operation on pause for a couple weeks, then have split time between this and trying an experiment re-creating a br on FT from almost zero.
I'm quite happy with the volume I ended up with this month, because if I hadn't messed around with FT, I would have blown March away in # of tourneys.
I've done some research, and I think one reason I've been doing better at the 90Ts than the 45s is because of blind structure. Though they are both turbos, the blind structure in the 45s is much more aggressive, giving me less time to make great hands or pick great spots to make moves. I plan to push narrower edges and play a slightly wider range of hands early on in these to try to improve my results.
Another thing I learned is that though I've gotten to where playing 6 of the larger games is quite ez, even boring sometimes, when I play a set of single tables, I need to stick to 4. Because I'm making it to the bubble and cash at such a higher rate, I need to focus more and am giving away too many chips if I'm trying to play the bubble to headsup on 6 tables at the same time.
I've played 126 larger field games, so that's a nice chunk, a little less than half. I'd like to raise that %, but the trouble I'm having is not having enough time as I'd like to load up a two hour 90T. As you can see I can play the 45Ts (they only take a hour or so), but since I'm losing at those, I've tried to limit how many of them I play in proportion to other games.
I've also played around with the KOs some this month. This was a nice addition by Stars. I think they're a nice change and even softer than my usual single tables. I will continue to mix them in and see what kind of return I get on them in comparison to the regulars.

[Kijjo]

After a good night - 2nd in a 90T, 6th in a 45T and 2nd in a $3.40 10T (this was fantastic considering how insanely card-dead I was through most of my games) my bankroll has finally broken the next barrier ($110). So I'll start working in the $5.50 STTs and $2.20 180Ts. I'm not going to get anal about the #'s, but if I drop quite a bit I'll go heavier on the lower games again, as I get better results, I'll go heavy in the new price range.

Sidenote - tonight the 90Ts took forever to fill up. They're usually slow, but for instance the last one I loaded up took over 20 mins! I'm looking forward to having a couple more options to pick from.
Bankroll $112.39